So it looks like GD missed this . . . Fourth Circuit says "illegal aliens can't own guns" - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So it looks like GD missed this . . . Fourth Circuit says "illegal aliens can't own guns" (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 12/26/2012 2:30:59 AM EDT

[#1]

Small wonder nothing ever gets done concerning getting shed of illegals.

To listen to some here it would seem that once their feet hit US soil they have the same rights as native born US citizens. That is just retarded.

The operative word is ILLEGAL.....As in....They ain't supposed to be here at all.

As far as I am concerned they are intitled to exactly squat and fuck the do-gooders that claim otherwise.

Posted: 12/26/2012 3:56:03 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/115063.P.pdf

I'm a little torn. On the one paw, they're in the U.S. illegally. On the other paw, the right to self-defense doesn't have any geographic boundaries, and guns are an integral part of self-defense.
The Fourth Circuit also insists that "intermediate scrutiny" is the proper standard at the start, then says "we evaluate this law under rational basis". What the fuck? How do you switch from one to the other in the middle of a decision?

not in NYC or Chicago, so screw the ILLEGALS.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:08:16 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

What a narrow little world view. \sarcasm

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:12:34 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:17:03 AM EDT

[#5]

I'm like the OP... On one hand, they're here illegally, on the other hand, self defense is a right inherent to all people everywhere...

but then, the left wanted a background check system, and illegals don't have a background to check, so they would get denied.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:21:42 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

This.

Fuck em.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:23:19 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I believe that the right to bear arms, right to freedom of speech, right to freedom of association, etc. are universal human rights.

I believe that they should have those rights in their home countries and I believe they should get the fuck out of mine.

Well said.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:28:27 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First post nails it.

Look, we already have enough problems with politicians trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens. Even if these illegal/criminal aliens are actually nice people, the last thing we need is to stand up for their non existent right to bear arms. If we do that, then we'll be maligned in the press as wanting to put guns in the hands of criminals, even if they also regularly come out in support of those criminals and don't have any problems with the president issuing EOs to make sure that they aren't punished for their crimes they would have no problems using them to attack us.

So I'm sorry. I don't think that criminals should own firearms, I think that the problem is not the scary looking guns or the scary capacity clipmazines, but the people who own them. If that means nice people who happen to be breaking the law can't own guns, then that's fine by me.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:29:33 AM EDT

[#9]

non-citizens do not have the same rights as citizens, nor should they?

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:30:16 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
If they are in danger, they should run and hide

Preferably in Mexico.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:39:38 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First reply nails it.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:40:29 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

I believe that the right to bear arms, right to freedom of speech, right to freedom of association, etc. are universal human rights.

I believe that they should have those rights in their home countries and I believe they should get the fuck out of mine.

Dear Sir, You have read my mind. Please don't look in the drawer marked "S" or the one marked "P". Thank you.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:42:13 AM EDT

[#13]

The constitution acknowledges that a law abiding citizen has rights in society. It does not imply that law breakers are entitled to the same rights. "The people" does not, in my opinion, refer to rejects of society who do not obey our laws.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:44:40 AM EDT

[#14]

Why on EARTH would I look at an illegal immigrant in the custody of Law Enforcement and worry about whether they had a gun or not? Get it straight, I don't want illegal immigrants to be in our jails. I want them to get a job and paperwork and pay taxes or go back to their own country. Back in their own country, I would hope their possession of a firearm was irrelevant.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:47:01 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First post knocks it out of the park

Hope you guys never drive into NY/NJ. Better not take your guns if you do. I hope nobody decides to rob you or rape you while you're there.

What does that have to do with illegals / criminals owning guns?

Onyx

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:52:57 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/115063.P.pdf

I'm a little torn. On the one paw, they're in the U.S. illegally. On the other paw, the right to self-defense doesn't have any geographic boundaries, and guns are an integral part of self-defense.

The Fourth Circuit also insists that "intermediate scrutiny" is the proper standard at the start, then says "we evaluate this law under rational basis". What the fuck? How do you switch from one to the other in the middle of a decision?

Well, 71 hr Achmed..... the SECOND you are willing to get caught by the Mexican po-po or say the Guatemalan police force with your rifles or pistols..... go ahead, and tell them it's just for self defense.
Let us know how it works out for you.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:55:39 AM EDT

[#17]

In some states LEGAL aliens don't; have the right to touch a firearm ... let alone use one without a special license!

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:57:50 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I believe that the right to bear arms, right to freedom of speech, right to freedom of association, etc. are universal human rights.

I believe that they should have those rights in their home countries and I believe they should get the fuck out of mine.

could not agree more.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:58:26 AM EDT

[#19]

Since they can't own guns in their socialist homeland (Mexico) they should feel right at home not being able to own guns here.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:04:12 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Since they can't own guns legally in their socialist homeland (Mexico) they should feel right at home not being able to own guns illegally here.

FIFY

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:16:27 AM EDT

[#21]

This will devastate the cartels!

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:20:40 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.
All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border
with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:20:44 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I do find it interesting that illegals DO have a right to free healthcare, education, and social benefits, but not gun ownership.

John

. Let's unravel this thread.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:21:16 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First post knocks it out of the park

Hope you guys never drive into NY/NJ. Better not take your guns if you do. I hope nobody decides to rob you or rape you while you're there.

I'm pretty sure I'm legally allowed to enter NY and NJ. Not that it's something I'm looking to test.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:23:30 AM EDT

[#25]

If they come here LEGALLY, they have the full protection of the law. They receive the benefits of legal presence.

If they come here contrary to the law, they are criminals. They miss out on the benefits of legal presence.

It's a choice. Choices have consequences.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:58:06 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.

All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border

with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

No, they are not felons until tried in a court of law.

Incorrect. If you commit a felony, you are a felon. If you are CONVICTED of a felony, then you are a CONVICTED felon.

I'd say that most people are felons but only a relative handful are convicted felons.

Yes, this is splitting hairs. But if you kill somebody, you are a murderer even if you are never caught or even under suspicion.

Would you say that a person who kills somebody and is never caught, tried, and convicted is not a murderer?

I don't think you'd say that.

The logic is identical.

Commission of an act makes you the actor. Regardless of whether or not you are convicted.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:59:02 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.

All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border

with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

Bar code for tracking by drone, or RFID chip for detection by towers along the border?

Yes, yes, and let's add distinctive bar code tattoos that are invisible in visible light but reveal themselves when

checked with a UV light source.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:59:57 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First post knocks it out of the park

Hope you guys never drive into NY/NJ. Better not take your guns if you do. I hope nobody decides to rob you or rape you while you're there.

So what does that have to do with the topic of your thread?

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:03:57 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.
All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border
with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

No, they are not felons until tried in a court of law. So assuming no prior felonies they would not have been felons in possession of a firearm. They could catch an additional charge of possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony.

Sorry you can't arbitrarily assign convictions without due process. Tedious and bureaucratic yes....but necessary.

As for what happens to them after a conviction for attempting to enter the country illegally I like the way you think.

Why do people like you and OP try to find a silver lining for everything? They are here illegally, simple as that. If you think that they should be able to own firearms do you also think that they should have free healthcare? Should they be allowed medicaid?

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:06:13 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I believe that the right to bear arms, right to freedom of speech, right to freedom of association, etc. are universal human rights.

I believe that they should have those rights in their home countries and I believe they should get the fuck out of mine.

Well said.

+1

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:06:29 AM EDT

[#31]

inalienable rights......

They mean something or they don't.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:46:06 AM EDT

[#32]

Illegal aliens are, by the very fact that they are here illegally, fugitives from justice.

Fugitives from justice do not have a recognized right to bear arms in this country.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:47:35 AM EDT

[#33]

fuck them. they can go back to wherever they came from and wait to do it right.

did my family in italy sneak over here? no. they waited their freaking turn...

no sympathy - sorry.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:55:30 AM EDT

[#34]

Cue the GTFO gif.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:04:28 AM EDT

[#35]

Everyone saying that criminals shouldn't own guns need to rethink your position. Felons shouldn't own guns but we are all criminals of some law or statue one time or another.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:05:18 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Our second amendment (or any other amendment) doesn't apply to an illegal.

Boom headshot!

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:05:44 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Our second amendment (or any other amendment) doesn't apply to an illegal.

The Second Amendment doesn't apply to people, only government.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:13:23 AM EDT

[#38]

I assume all you legalists would turn in your weapons if the second amendment was repealed.

After all, it is the law.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:13:56 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Our second amendment (or any other amendment) doesn't apply to an illegal.

(edit)

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:25:50 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Our second amendment (or any other amendment) doesn't apply to an illegal.

And yet the First, Fourth,Fifth, & Sixth Amendments do.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:39:56 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First reply nails it.

Soon you will be a criminal owning those evil 30 round mags....should you own guns?

You need to understand that "all men" not US citizens have certain unalienable rights recognised by the constitution as god given.. The US government does not give us those rights in theory it recognises them as absolute rights that no one can take away.

Kick them out of the US for being here illegally but don't arrest them on a gun charge.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:42:46 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They're not US citizens. They're here illegally. By law, they're criminals. Criminals shouldn't own guns. Just my take.

First post knocks it out of the park

Hope you guys never drive into NY/NJ. Better not take your guns if you do. I hope nobody decides to rob you or rape you while you're there.

Yes because visiting NJ or NY is just like being an illegal immigrant..

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:44:38 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Small wonder nothing ever gets done concerning getting shed of illegals.

To listen to some here it would seem that once their feet hit US soil they have the same rights as native born US citizens. That is just retarded.

The operative word is ILLEGAL.....As in....They ain't supposed to be here at all.

As far as I am concerned they are intitled to exactly squat and fuck the do-gooders that claim otherwise.

If you believe that rights are inherent in man then they have the right to a firearm, regardless of their status.

If you believe that rights come from the government, then you can deny them that right.

Your call.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:45:05 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

All human beings have the inherent right of self defense. When the constitution was written, it was written to reflect all mankind, not just Americans.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:45:56 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.
All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border
with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

No, they are not felons until tried in a court of law.

Incorrect. If you commit a felony, you are a felon. If you are CONVICTED of a felony, then you are a CONVICTED felon.

I'd say that most people are felons but only a relative handful are convicted felons.

Yes, this is splitting hairs. But if you kill somebody, you are a murderer even if you are never caught or even under suspicion.

Would you say that a person who kills somebody and is never caught, tried, and convicted is not a murderer?

I don't think you'd say that.

The logic is identical.

Commission of an act makes you the actor. Regardless of whether or not you are convicted.

Ok, since we are splitting hairs it is only illegal for a convicted felon to posses a gun.

If we are using your logic we better all turn in our guns. I can almost guarantee that almost every person has "technically" committed a felony in his or her life.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:57:45 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Their PRESENCE in the US makes them criminals. Criminal trespass on federal property is a FELONY.
All the US border is federal property.

Thus, any that crossed the border illegally have trespassed on federal property and are felons.

Felons can't own guns.

All they need is a conviction. And a year at hard labor before being biometrically identified and thrown back over the border
with a very sincere warning not to attempt to return to the USA under penalty of death.

No, I'm not kidding.

No, they are not felons until tried in a court of law. So assuming no prior felonies they would not have been felons in possession of a firearm. They could catch an additional charge of possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony.

Sorry you can't arbitrarily assign convictions without due process. Tedious and bureaucratic yes....but necessary.

As for what happens to them after a conviction for attempting to enter the country illegally I like the way you think.

Why do people like you and OP try to find a silver lining for everything? They are here illegally, simple as that. If you think that they should be able to own firearms do you also think that they should have free healthcare? Should they be allowed medicaid?

You need to go back to fourth grade reading class. Also read the entire thread. I have only advocated that illegal's be afforded constitutional rights due to the fact all men are born with these rights. By our own constitutional definition these are unalienable rights granted to all men at birth. My only argument is that they had constitutional rights. I agree with deporting them for being here illegally, not for a firearm charge.

Since you went in a totally different direction with health care and medicade; these are not constitutional rights. Unrelated, In my opinion they should be illegal programs because they are nothing more than sanctioned robbery.

You need to understand the difference between Constitutional rights and social welfare programs. Also constitutional rights are not granted by the government. They are recognised as absolute rights by the government...at least in theory[://.

Posted: 12/26/2012 8:30:41 AM EDT

[#47]

Rights are inalienable until you alienate them by becoming a law breaker.

Posted: 12/26/2012 8:45:12 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/115063.P.pdf

I'm a little torn. On the one paw, they're in the U.S. illegally. On the other paw, the right to self-defense doesn't have any geographic boundaries, and guns are an integral part of self-defense.

The Fourth Circuit also insists that "intermediate scrutiny" is the proper standard at the start, then says "we evaluate this law under rational basis". What the fuck? How do you switch from one to the other in the middle of a decision?

Illegal aliens can fuck off back to their own country if they want to own guns. The very first thing they do when they cross the border illegally is break the law. There is a process for immigrating legally. My paternal grandparents did it in the 40's.

Posted: 12/26/2012 9:06:02 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/115063.P.pdf

I'm a little torn. On the one paw, they're in the U.S. illegally. On the other paw, the right to self-defense doesn't have any geographic boundaries, and guns are an integral part of self-defense.

The Fourth Circuit also insists that "intermediate scrutiny" is the proper standard at the start, then says "we evaluate this law under rational basis". What the fuck? How do you switch from one to the other in the middle of a decision?

Illegal aliens can fuck off back to their own country if they want to own guns. The very first thing they do when they cross the border illegally is break the law. There is a process for immigrating legally. My paternal grandparents did it in the 40's.

Should we suspend their cruel and unusual punishment rights as well?

Posted: 12/26/2012 9:14:46 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Rights are inalienable until you alienate them by becoming a law breaker.

No one shall be deprived of life or liberty without due process of law...

lets be careful to limit rights of others, espcially those rights endowed by a creator, not from government...

There is a reason John Adams defended the Boston Masacre shooters...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So it looks like GD missed this . . . Fourth Circuit says "illegal aliens can't own guns" (Page 2 of 4)

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