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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:14:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: old enough to be drafted = old enough to encourage ALL the rights of society Bingo. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:16:06 AM EDT
[#2]
I saw a pretty funny cartoon once that depicted a 16 year old boy on death row saying he'd like a beer for his last request. The warden tells him no because he's not old enough.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:16:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: +1Should be parental consent at 16 and legal at 18. Fuck up while under the influence, get the book thrown at you. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:17:25 AM EDT
[#4]
if you are old enough to vote and die for your country you should be able to legally have a beer
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:19:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Yeah, but will they be able to buy it on Sunday?
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:20:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Yeah, but will they be able to buy it on Sunday? Not in CT.  |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:21:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, but will they be able to buy it on Sunday? Not in CT. Or past 8pm, right? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:22:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Ready, Willing and Able and in a position to die for their country carries a lot of weight in my book.Quoted: http://savannahnow.com/news/2010-09-02/kingston-lower-age-drink-beer-or-win-military-posts-18 If 18 is old enough to lift a weapon in defense of your country, U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston says, it's old enough to lift a cold beer on base. The Savannah Republican has introduced legislation that would let service members younger than 21 drink beer and wine at post restaurants and clubs. People as young as 18 may enlist but now must be 21 or older to consume alcoholic beverages on post. Kingston said he's thought about the matter as he's stood on the tarmac of Hunter Army Airfield as soldiers prepared to deploy for combat. "There they are in their rucksacks," he said. "And they're going off to operate Abrams tanks and Black Hawk helicopters and squeeze the triggers on their M-4 rifles. "We tell them they're responsible enough to do that and risk their lives, but not responsible enough to have a beer with their steak on post. I think that's an insult." He said most people acknowledge many people under 21 drink even though it's illegal in most states. "Society tends to wink at what we know is going on," he said. "I want us to address the issue responsibly when it comes to our military personnel." He said he tried to tack a similar measure onto a measure that authorizes military programs earlier this year, but wasn't allowed to. Kingston's bill only applies to situations where beer or wine is intended for immediate consumption. It would not let personnel buy it at post stores and take it to drink somewhere else. There was no response Wednesday to requests for comment from spokesmen for Fort Stewart, Hunter Army Airfield or the Department of Defense. Kingston spokesman Chris Crawford estimated that, as of March, about 28,000 of the military personnel deployed to Iraq were under 21. The legislation was introduced and referred to the House Armed Services Committee on July 29, just before Congress recessed. It's due to reconvene later this month. So far, Kingston has only one co-sponsor for his proposal, Gene Taylor, D-Miss. "But we expect that number to increase once we're back in session," Crawford said. But Kingston can expect support from Chatham County's other congressman, John Barrow of Savannah. "I agree with Jack," Barrow said Wednesday. "I think if soldiers are old enough to fight alongside their fellow soldiers, they're old enough to have a beer with their fellow soldiers." Barrow's GOP opponent, Ray McKinney, is also on board. "It only makes sense that people who are willing to die for their country should be able to have a beer or glass of wine on base, especially in time of war," McKinney said. But the bill faces a potential roadblock - Joe Wilson, R-S.C. Wilson is the top-ranked GOP member the Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Military Personnel. "Although I normally see eye to eye with Congressman Kingston," Wilson said, "I oppose this particular piece of legislation. My concern is that lowering the drinking age for active duty service members could lead to alcohol abuse." Kingston said he respects Wilson's views but he hopes he will at least help the legislation be considered. "If people are solidly against it, fine," Kingston said. "But I really want a debate on it. Let's bring it to the House floor. I think it's a proper subject of debate. "I think we owe it to the people who are helping create our freedom to have a mature discussion about theirs." Bullshit. What are they, a different class of citizen than civilians? Dont quite know how to measure this, but it sure is different than the average sheeple. IMHO YMMV |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:22:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: 9pmQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, but will they be able to buy it on Sunday? Not in CT. Or past 8pm, right? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:26:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ready, Willing and Able and in a position to die for their country carries a lot of weight in my book.
Quoted:
http://savannahnow.com/news/2010-09-02/kingston-lower-age-drink-beer-or-win-military-posts-18 If 18 is old enough to lift a weapon in defense of your country, U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston says, it's old enough to lift a cold beer on base.
The Savannah Republican has introduced legislation that would let service members younger than 21 drink beer and wine at post restaurants and clubs.
People as young as 18 may enlist but now must be 21 or older to consume alcoholic beverages on post.
Kingston said he's thought about the matter as he's stood on the tarmac of Hunter Army Airfield as soldiers prepared to deploy for combat.
"There they are in their rucksacks," he said. "And they're going off to operate Abrams tanks and Black Hawk helicopters and squeeze the triggers on their M-4 rifles.
"We tell them they're responsible enough to do that and risk their lives, but not responsible enough to have a beer with their steak on post. I think that's an insult."
He said most people acknowledge many people under 21 drink even though it's illegal in most states.
"Society tends to wink at what we know is going on," he said. "I want us to address the issue responsibly when it comes to our military personnel."
He said he tried to tack a similar measure onto a measure that authorizes military programs earlier this year, but wasn't allowed to.
Kingston's bill only applies to situations where beer or wine is intended for immediate consumption. It would not let personnel buy it at post stores and take it to drink somewhere else.
There was no response Wednesday to requests for comment from spokesmen for Fort Stewart, Hunter Army Airfield or the Department of Defense.
Kingston spokesman Chris Crawford estimated that, as of March, about 28,000 of the military personnel deployed to Iraq were under 21.
The legislation was introduced and referred to the House Armed Services Committee on July 29, just before Congress recessed. It's due to reconvene later this month.
So far, Kingston has only one co-sponsor for his proposal, Gene Taylor, D-Miss.
"But we expect that number to increase once we're back in session," Crawford said.
But Kingston can expect support from Chatham County's other congressman, John Barrow of Savannah.
"I agree with Jack," Barrow said Wednesday. "I think if soldiers are old enough to fight alongside their fellow soldiers, they're old enough to have a beer with their fellow soldiers."
Barrow's GOP opponent, Ray McKinney, is also on board.
"It only makes sense that people who are willing to die for their country should be able to have a beer or glass of wine on base, especially in time of war," McKinney said.
But the bill faces a potential roadblock - Joe Wilson, R-S.C. Wilson is the top-ranked GOP member the Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Military Personnel.
"Although I normally see eye to eye with Congressman Kingston," Wilson said, "I oppose this particular piece of legislation. My concern is that lowering the drinking age for active duty service members could lead to alcohol abuse."
Kingston said he respects Wilson's views but he hopes he will at least help the legislation be considered.
"If people are solidly against it, fine," Kingston said. "But I really want a debate on it. Let's bring it to the House floor. I think it's a proper subject of debate.
"I think we owe it to the people who are helping create our freedom to have a mature discussion about theirs."
Bullshit. What are they, a different class of citizen than civilians? Dont quite know how to measure this, but it sure is different than the average sheeple. IMHO YMMV It holds a lot of weight in my book too, I'm no military basher. But this law is such bullshit in the first place, why kid ourselves and say the reason they can drink is military service. The reason they should be able to drink is because they can do damn near everything else. IMO, if you're old enough to be mature enough sign your life away to the military, even if you don't, you should be able to drink. Key words in bold. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:29:00 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm pretty sure Progressivism and Temperance movements shared a lot. Both presume to have the moral authority to take away everyone's freedom and self-responsibility.
There should be no laws regarding drinking and age whatsoever, other than that an owner of an establishment has the absolute legal right to serve or not serve any person for any reason. All that the drinking age laws have done is turn US high schools into drug and alcohol black markets. The laws don't stop the drinking. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:34:31 AM EDT
[#12]
The law is freaking stupid.
Everyone should be able to drink at 18 As for the bill itself it sucks. By limiting the sale of drinks to only MWR facilities that have to be consumed on premises, you are asking for one of these kids to do the dumb thing and drink and drive. Not like they won't already but someone didn't think the logic through on this. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:38:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: This. I think there should be one age for everything. Military service, adult court, voting, rifles, pistols, shotgun, machineguns, and yes, even alcohol. Once you hit 18 the world should be yours. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:40:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Then how about rifles/shotguns you can buy at 18, but handguns you must wait until 21? Can anyone explain that, and why that restriction for handguns hasn't been removed? Seems to me if you buy a rifle you have way more lethal ability/means than by owning a pistol. I'm 18 and bought a pistol from a private seller and inherited 4 revolvers, not illegal, it just doesn't make sense that you can't buy from an FFL |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:41:41 AM EDT
[#15]
And opposed by a fucking Republican too. Why can't the GOP get rid of these assholes who want to tell everyone else to do with their life like some liberal nanny statist?
Also I think its fucked up we need to change the law for service members. I'm fine with 18 as a drinking age and allowing parental consent (andsupervision) for those under 18. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:00:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Just to remind everyone, 18-21 had their chance and their privileges were revoked because of a massive increase in DUI related deaths. Many adults can't handle the responsibility, much less the 18-21 year old pseudo-adults.
I remember high school and college and how people acted (binge drinking, partying etc) , and I for one think the legal age should be 21 for everything (voting, military etc), instead of 18. I was very politically active at age 12, listened to Limbaugh, Beck, I tried talking politics with people at school nobody gave a flying shit. It was all about parties, dating, what was on TV... Same through college nobody cared except for the hippies and granola crunchers. They're just not mature enough to decide the fate of this country (not that half the adults are...) |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:03:19 AM EDT
[#17]
That's all we need is a bunch of 18 year olds driving while drunk.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:07:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
And opposed by a fucking Republican too. Why can't the GOP get rid of these assholes who want to tell everyone else to do with their life like some liberal nanny statist? Also I think its fucked up we need to change the law for service members. I'm fine with 18 as a drinking age and allowing parental consent (andsupervision) for those under 18. 
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:11:36 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Should be parental consent at 16 and legal at 18. Fuck up while under the influence, get the book thrown at you. this |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:13:11 AM EDT
[#20]
base / unit commanders are able to allow 18 year olds to drink during special occasions
at least they let us... not sure what the deal is but they let everyone drink at the ball
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:15:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
That's all we need is a bunch of 18 year olds driving while drunk. Yeah, fuck that whole concept of freedom and personal responsibility.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:17:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I'm fine with that. I don't think the drinking age should be 18 for everyone, just that there should be no drinking age if you are in the military. Yep, I agree 100% |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:18:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Ditch the federal mandate and let the states decide what age is appropriate for one to buy and consume alcohol (or even decline to have an official drinking age) .......... you know, per the 10th Amendment.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:22:29 AM EDT
[#24]
I'm ok with this. Have at it.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:22:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Yep actually we are.
A man that risks his life for his country, getting shot at on the other side of the world is just a little special don't you think? FREE Quoted: Quoted: http://savannahnow.com/news/2010-09-02/kingston-lower-age-drink-beer-or-win-military-posts-18 If 18 is old enough to lift a weapon in defense of your country, U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston says, it's old enough to lift a cold beer on base. The Savannah Republican has introduced legislation that would let service members younger than 21 drink beer and wine at post restaurants and clubs. People as young as 18 may enlist but now must be 21 or older to consume alcoholic beverages on post. Kingston said he's thought about the matter as he's stood on the tarmac of Hunter Army Airfield as soldiers prepared to deploy for combat. "There they are in their rucksacks," he said. "And they're going off to operate Abrams tanks and Black Hawk helicopters and squeeze the triggers on their M-4 rifles. "We tell them they're responsible enough to do that and risk their lives, but not responsible enough to have a beer with their steak on post. I think that's an insult." He said most people acknowledge many people under 21 drink even though it's illegal in most states. "Society tends to wink at what we know is going on," he said. "I want us to address the issue responsibly when it comes to our military personnel." He said he tried to tack a similar measure onto a measure that authorizes military programs earlier this year, but wasn't allowed to. Kingston's bill only applies to situations where beer or wine is intended for immediate consumption. It would not let personnel buy it at post stores and take it to drink somewhere else. There was no response Wednesday to requests for comment from spokesmen for Fort Stewart, Hunter Army Airfield or the Department of Defense. Kingston spokesman Chris Crawford estimated that, as of March, about 28,000 of the military personnel deployed to Iraq were under 21. The legislation was introduced and referred to the House Armed Services Committee on July 29, just before Congress recessed. It's due to reconvene later this month. So far, Kingston has only one co-sponsor for his proposal, Gene Taylor, D-Miss. "But we expect that number to increase once we're back in session," Crawford said. But Kingston can expect support from Chatham County's other congressman, John Barrow of Savannah. "I agree with Jack," Barrow said Wednesday. "I think if soldiers are old enough to fight alongside their fellow soldiers, they're old enough to have a beer with their fellow soldiers." Barrow's GOP opponent, Ray McKinney, is also on board. "It only makes sense that people who are willing to die for their country should be able to have a beer or glass of wine on base, especially in time of war," McKinney said. But the bill faces a potential roadblock - Joe Wilson, R-S.C. Wilson is the top-ranked GOP member the Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Military Personnel. "Although I normally see eye to eye with Congressman Kingston," Wilson said, "I oppose this particular piece of legislation. My concern is that lowering the drinking age for active duty service members could lead to alcohol abuse." Kingston said he respects Wilson's views but he hopes he will at least help the legislation be considered. "If people are solidly against it, fine," Kingston said. "But I really want a debate on it. Let's bring it to the House floor. I think it's a proper subject of debate. "I think we owe it to the people who are helping create our freedom to have a mature discussion about theirs." Bullshit. What are they, a different class of citizen than civilians? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:23:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Should be parental consent at 16 and legal at 18. Fuck up while under the influence, get the book thrown at you. This. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:23:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: You can't drink on base at 18 already? Nope... Alcohol offenses are one of those things the Army (at least support side, I wasn't combat arms on Active duty) takes extremely severely... 21, period... They even extend this to Korea, even though the civillian drinking age is lower - US military, 21 to drink in the ROK. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:24:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
3.2 beer in Ohio....back in the old days....don't know when they changed the law. Yes it used to be 3.2% for Eighteen and 6% for twenty-one or older. I don't know what percent beer is now: does anyone know? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:26:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Yep actually we are. A man that risks his life for his country, getting shot at on the other side of the world is just a little special don't you think? FREE I recall a story about a soldier who shot his girlfriend and daughter. There are good and bad, just like every other profession in the world. I still call bullshit. I guess you guys are just a little more equal than the rest of us. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:32:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
As far as I am concerned, if you are old enough to be drafted ( if we ever did have a draft) to fight for this country, you should be able to drink a beer on base or off this. and when i was in no drinking on base unless 21. i'd really like to see the hard data on lives saved with the raising the drinking age to 21. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
As far as I am concerned, if you are old enough to be drafted ( if we ever did have a draft) to fight for this country, you should be able to drink a beer on base or off Yes, at 18 they'll issue you a machinegun, which is hell for any "mere civilian" to own, send you to foreign lands to kill people. I think you should have a chance to get laid and get drunk first. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
the very things that make a kid a good candidate as a soldier at the age of 18 makes it a bad idea to let them drink. your congressman is an idiot yes, listen to the old nudist guy.. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 12:36:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
As far as I am concerned, if you are old enough to be drafted ( if we ever did have a draft) to fight for this country, you should be able to drink a beer on base or off Exactly. An 18 YO is responsible enough to vote but not drink.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 12:36:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Hell, I had quit drinking in pubs before I turned 18 (I'm back boozing after 8 years teetotal now). 13-14 drinking cheap Cider with my mates 15-16 drinking in any pub or bar that would serve me (most, luckily) 16.5 quit drinking 24.5 started drinking again  |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:11:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Once you hit 18 the world should be yours. Exactly. Gotta be an adult some time. Although having 18 year olds in bars could possibly be obnoxious. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:13:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Isn't the USA one of the few countries that has 21 for a drinking age? All it did was create a forbidden fruit that teens think is cool if they go out binge drinking. As far as Western countries go, yes. To be honest, I don't think drinking age has much of an effect on binge drinking one way or another; I think it's more cultural than anything. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:36:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
the very things that make a kid a good candidate as a soldier at the age of 18 makes it a bad idea to let them drink. your congressman is an idiot Your right. Because people who enlist right out of high school are obviously the reckless hoodlums you dont want running around your neighborhood! I can never recall it being exactly hard to come across beverages in high school. I would bet that underage drinking would drop if it wasnt "Cool" to break the law by underage drinking. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:47:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Did they raise the beer drinking age on base? We had beer machines in our squad bays at Camp Schwab, Okinawa in the early 90's. Thats in Japan Dumbass, Reading comprehension is key here. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:48:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Fuck em'. Bought my first AR when I was 19. But I can't have a damn beer.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:53:09 PM EDT
[#40]
When I grew up in Buffalo during the 70s, drinking age was 18, and bars closed at 4AM.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:56:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Used to be 18 in a lot of states a couple decades ago and especially during the Viet Nam era, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:56:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Used to be 18.
Did not work |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:07:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
the very things that make a kid a good candidate as a soldier at the age of 18 makes it a bad idea to let them drink. Could you please explain the traits that 18 year old military candidates possess? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:10:11 PM EDT
[#44]
I was raised in a very Old School German family. We made a lot of our own Beer and Wine.If you Helped support the family, you could drink the Beer and Wine. You could bring a friend over and offer that friend A Beer or some Wine but, they must be hard working also as the favor was returned at their home. I was less impressed with drinking then my "city" HS friends.
When we were putting up hay or harvesting other crops we would go to our small town bar and were served beers without question. Of course now you would be hard pressed to find a 18+ kid willing to do that kind of hard work. And Mommy's want to "protect" their babies. My vote is Work as a Adult, including fighting for your Country, should be able to indulge. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:56:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
"key eagle...Haters got to hate".......
Quoted:
Yep actually we are. A man that risks his life for his country, getting shot at on the other side of the world is just a little special don't you think? FREE I recall a story about a soldier who shot his girlfriend and daughter. There are good and bad, just like every other profession in the world. I still call bullshit. I guess you guys are just a little more equal than the rest of us. -and i can register my car in one state and have a drivers lic in another..
-when at Ft Campbell as a military member I could kill 3 deer on post, 5 in TN and like 7 in Kentucky... -Military only resorts like in DisneyWorld, Korea, Japan, Germany, England, HI, camp grounds etc... -Free college in some state colleges. -free tax services l bet military discounts piss you off too...... 
Letting them drink on base/unit is a better idea, since we can keep an eye on them and out of cars.. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:11:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
The logic behind the drinking age being 21 is that the human brain is not fully developed until the age of 21 (women develop their brains fully early, but men can take as long as 21). They claim that for every year before your brain is fully developed that you drink your chances of being addicted to alcohol increase. So someone who starts drinking at the age of 18 has a higher likelyhood of being an alcoholic than someone who starts drinking at the age of 21. That's the argument anyways. They claim this argument is supported by scans of brains and clinical data, but I've never seen any of it. The research I have done in anatomy (aka textbooks from college) actually conclude that the human body does not stop developing until 25-26 in most people. My .02 |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:17:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Min drinking age in Europe is 16 for beer & wine.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 8:31:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, but will they be able to buy it on Sunday? Not in CT. Or past 8pm, right? 9pm Well, its a small step in the right direction.
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Posted: 9/10/2010 7:09:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Should not be restricted to millitary. I was a professional firefighter at the age of 19. I was good enough to pull your ass out of a burning house but not have a beer? Professional firefighter and age 19 in the same sentence.... I bet you could tell us how humble you are too! hahaha gtfo! |
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Posted: 9/10/2010 8:19:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Beer at 18?
Had that here in Nazi Jerky for a while many years ago with no problems. Then the Feds required 21 or highway funds would be withheld. |
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