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Posted: 11/8/2005 1:00:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 10:00:46 AM EDT by Kevin]
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 1:05:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 1:07:19 PM EDT by Stickman]


ETA- Disregard, I just saw that these are a straight drop in unit.



How do these look in width when compared to the existing rails they make?
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 1:07:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 1:50:24 PM EDT
While I don't need a freefloating rail, I do need one that is thin so it can mount into my duty AR15 lock..... When you stick covers on, most are getting a little too wide.
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 2:04:21 PM EDT
Any idea on how much it will weigh?
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 2:10:34 PM EDT
I like it! Looks to be same width as a KAC unit, competition is good!
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 2:11:57 PM EDT
Is it a 2 piece design? Kind of like KAC RAS/RIS? Thanks
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 2:18:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2005 2:18:32 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]
would also like to know what the weight is and width of it compared to the regular handguards
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 3:36:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 12:00:27 PM EDT by TalonArms_R]
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 3:37:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 4:17:26 PM EDT
Sweet!!

And its cheaper than a KAC RAS.

FREE
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 6:48:17 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 6:57:36 PM EDT
Tag for more pics, especially of the screw that locks thme in place. Is it similar to the KAC RAS arrangement? Looks nice though!
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 7:49:08 PM EDT
Midlength?
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 10:59:54 PM EDT
No offense to the dealer nor the company but I dont see how this would be a great option when the MI FF carbine handguard could be had for 163. I mean am I missing somthing.. as a consumer why would I get this over the cheaper MI?
Link Posted: 11/8/2005 11:50:21 PM EDT
Good Point!
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 5:23:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 5:25:33 AM EDT
Tag for more infor.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 6:17:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SamsonMfg:
MRFS-DI two piece 9.1 oz



Really? That's impressive. What about the width? If the width is within reason (and it looks like it is by the picture) and the rest of it is kosher (tight lock up, rails in spec, etc.) then I think you have a real winner there!
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 6:44:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 6:53:34 AM EDT
Oh crap. I just got a MI 2 piece RAS in Saturday.

Well, I guess I need to start another build.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 9:35:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shingaling:
No offense to the dealer nor the company but I dont see how this would be a great option when the MI FF carbine handguard could be had for 163. I mean am I missing somthing.. as a consumer why would I get this over the cheaper MI?




Why get a MI when the YHM is cheaper? Options are nice for some of us.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 9:54:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By shingaling:
No offense to the dealer nor the company but I dont see how this would be a great option when the MI FF carbine handguard could be had for 163. I mean am I missing somthing.. as a consumer why would I get this over the cheaper MI?




Why get a MI when the YHM is cheaper? Options are nice for some of us.



The MI @ $163 is FF, the YHM 2-piece is not.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 10:53:01 AM EDT
Well correct me if I am wrong but I assume that the YHM FF carbine is one peice and not 2? Again I am not bashing this product but I am in the market for a set of handguards.. 2pc preferred for easy install.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:31:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 12:42:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 1:31:57 PM EDT
I appears very "spartan", but bare is good I suppose, since there are less parts. I notice it does not have a lower heat shield, like the KAC, which I assume is it's greatest competitor as far as quality/size/weight go, especially considering how you allude to it going to the troops. How is heat dispertion with the lack of heat shield?
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 4:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theJrod:
The MI @ $163 is FF, the YHM 2-piece is not.




I did not think the MI 2 piece was a free float.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 6:35:38 PM EDT
How long before these get out to your dealers? I would like to get hands on time with one of these ...
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By theJrod:
The MI @ $163 is FF, the YHM 2-piece is not.




I did not think the MI 2 piece was a free float.



They've got both. They just came out with the 2 piece free float.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:39:08 PM EDT
Thankyou, I'm a little slow on intel at times.
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 2:59:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 4:19:01 PM EDT
Tag for later
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 4:43:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 4:45:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2005 4:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2005 4:51:26 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 10:22:05 AM EDT
Have to agree w/ Grant. The MI FF rails are top notch. $200 for Samson drop in rails that aren't FF, when the competition is nearly half the price? One has to ask - why so much?
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 1:52:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2005 1:53:14 PM EDT by M4arc]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
How long before these get out to your dealers? I would like to get hands on time with one of these ...



Ditto!

One of those would be perfect on my Sabre 14.5" barrel build
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 2:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2005 2:20:20 PM EDT by cgv69]

Originally Posted By theJrod:
Have to agree w/ Grant. The MI FF rails are top notch. $200 for Samson drop in rails that aren't FF, when the competition is nearly half the price? One has to ask - why so much?



People - if we are going to compare this new rail to others on the market, lets at least compare apples to apples.

MI - Has a two piece non-FF rail that is very comparable to this new offering from Samson...




(Pictures stolen from BravoCompany's web site - if that's not OK Paul let me know and I will edit them out?)

They are comparable because they are both two piece designs that do not require you to remove anything off of the rifle other then the factory hand guards. That means anybody (without any tools) can install and remove these rails at any time with out any modifications to the weapon. (That said, a hand guard removal tool would make your life easier )

So now, lets compare them...

MI -
Suggested Retail = $159.95
Street price = $129.95
Width = 2.4"
Weight = 11.9oz
Features - No tool install, T-Numbers, 100% Picatinny mil-spec

Samson -
Suggested Retail = $199
Street Price = ?
Width = 2.2"
Weight = 9.1oz
Features - No tool install, T-Numbers, 100% Picatinny mil-spec

Differences - Mainly weight and width. Samson claims their's can be used with just the top rail installed. Not sure about the MI? That's an important feature for the military but I'm not sure that it has a practical civilian application?

At this point I think it's too early to really hash this one out because there are too many unknowns. What will be the street price of the Samson? Will it live up to it's claims? Will it lock up tight? I will reserve judgment until the Samson is actualy availible for review.

Assuming that this new rail by Samson turns out to be a quality unit and lives up to the claims made here, I will have no problem paying an extra $30-$50 more for the Samson. Why? From what I can tell about the MI, it is a quality product at a very attractive price. What I don't like about it is the same thing I do not like about most other rails out there. They add too much weight and width to a weapon that is supposed to be light and handy. The only other rails that I am aware of that are this light and narrow are one piece FF units that are a lot harder to install\remove and cost a lot more.

One last thing - C4iGrant, before you troll this thread anymore, I think it should be mention that you are a dealer for both MI and Troy and that you hate Samson because of their on going dispute with Troy. Don't make this into an excuse to rehash that crap or start a flame fest. I just feel that it should be pointed out that you are not just some impartial contributor to this thread.
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 5:37:13 PM EDT
tag for later...after my tracer shooting tonight
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 6:28:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 4:41:33 AM EDT
I'm certain that the quality is in line with the Samson two piece FF-great piece of gear.

This is my opinion, the weight difference is more than likely associated with the price difference.

There are many things like this-cheap pair of walmart shoes will weigh more than, lets say a pair of Hi Tech or other higher brand ones.
Camping gear- you pay for weight, you hikers know this, used to be $100 a pound price tag for a pound less for your sleeping bag. etc, etc. ect.

And of course, will it work, of course- to varying degree's

Mark
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 6:38:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2005 6:44:21 AM EDT by Gregory_A]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Show me where I troll'd this thread??? People asked questions that weren't being answered and or made false claims that needed corrected. My posting in this thread has ZERO to do with Samson.


C4



Put it this way,this thread was a civil discussion,and given your past history regarding Samson,basically anything you have to say in any topic regarding Samson could be construed as a bias opinion.

For instance,I am looking for a rail and as soon as I seen your postings here,I knew nothing good can come from this.Do you know the manufacturing process for MI,in referance to your claim that they are not using cost cutting measures ? Personally,I think that most companies use cost cutting measures to maximize profit.One example being Kahr arms here in MA,they import Koreans to manufacture weapons,instead of American machinists/workers,which is one way to cut costs.I don't think any companies look at a product and don't try to figure out a way to make it cheaper.You ought to know by now that in most peoples minds,you get what you pay for.IOW,the more expensive a product is,the better it must be..LOL

Grant,I value your opinions on most things AR,your LaRue sales tactics are legendary (I own a LaRue product BTW ) But when it comes to Samson products,a lot of members here remember the Troy vs Samson rant and know your opinion on anything Samson is very biased,to say the least.

I think CV69 was just pointing that fact out for people that may not remember,or where not here for that thread.So they can make an informed decision based on facts,not biased opinions.

I like the fact that a rep for Samson is posting in this thread,and don't like the fact you might have made him vanish because he doesn't want to get in a pissing match with you.
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 7:30:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2005 7:33:45 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 7:50:10 AM EDT
I find it very hard to believe that a close toleranced unit could be as firmly mounted as one with a clamping device.
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:03:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:


No offense taken. This is a discussion forum and all opinions are welcome.
The MI FF tube requires the delta ring and spring to be removed to install. This is not an option for weapon systems that are issued and not owned. An LEO with an issued carbine may not be authorized to make permanent modififcations to a weapon. These drop-ins are not permanent. Also, some users may not want to make those changes to a personally owned weapon either.

I cannot comment on the quality of MI rails as I have not seen them, but if MI thinks their rails are only worth $163, then I would guess they must be cutting cost somewhere.

Samson produces some of the highest quality parts available. Their tolorences are very tight and quality control is very important. All of their products are tested at the factory for fit and inspected individually for finish and rail deminsions. That is one of the reasons that Samson is fast becomming a prefered supplier for the US Army.


i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/talonarms/MRFSDI1.jpg

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/talonarms/MRFSDI2.jpg

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/talonarms/MRFSDI3.jpg

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/talonarms/MRFSDI4.jpg



This would be an incorrect "guess" on your part.


C4





No R&D IS a cost saving measure. It costs a hell of a lot less to take an existing product and copy it, which is what MI did. Is it just a coincidence that the MI has all of the same major features of the YHM? Of course not, they modified the design and released it to the public. Samson obviously did not which is why it looks a lot different and costs more.

Run along Grant, this thread is not for you.

Link Posted: 11/12/2005 8:48:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2005 8:49:35 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 9:12:15 AM EDT
Take the Urinary Olympics somewhere else please.

This gets real old.
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 9:17:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Not having to do R&D does save money (no doubt). So how about Daniel Defense, LaRue Tactical, etc, etc?? They all have a 1 piece FF rail that resembles the KAC FF rail (with changes to weight, diameter & or add a locking system). This is a VERY normal occurance in the firearms industry and to SUGGEST that MI is the ONLY one that does it is simply ignorant. What is even more interesting is that you THINK that SAMSON is the originator of the rails they sell! I suppose you think that TROY has copied the Samson rail right???





nuff said
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 9:21:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2005 9:35:22 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 11/12/2005 9:33:41 AM EDT
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