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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:37:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:54:30 AM EDT
I and a friend were talking about this program this very morning. I told him I wouldn't watch as it would only make me angry. Rewriting history. Stinkin' liberals.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:55:13 AM EDT
I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:56:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 11:08:47 AM EDT by Gunslinger808]
Yup, I grew up and went to school in Texas, I don't think the History channel and the Texas school system are going to agree. I can see it now, the Brave band of outnumbered patriots are going to be turned into the seditionist cowardly rebels, and Santa Anna will become the brave benevolent General. Remember the Alamo! (as it was)
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:57:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:01:02 AM EDT
The question is: Who's likely more biased, you or The History Channel. It takes a Texan...[nana] I know where you are coming from though. I keep reading and seeing so-called experts saying the AK-47 was a knock off of the MP-44. The only thing similar is the intermediate cartridge, otherwise, they are quite different. If the AK is a copy of the MP 44, then the Garand is a copy of the RSC 1917. After all, the Garand adoped many of the features of the RSC '17. Gas operated, clip loaded, rotating bolt, full power cartridge, made of wood and machined steel... Hell, they are practically identical [rolleyes]. Let us know if there is a glaring mistake, or pure propaganda...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:03:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil]
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Be nice now! [:D] Eric The(TrueBlueTexan)Hun[>]:)]
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What is this "nice" you speak of? [;)] I saw the commercial on Sunday, and IMMEDIATELY thought of you. I figured it was only a matter of time before the thread came up. Have just been waiting patiently. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:15:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: I know where you are coming from though. I keep reading and seeing so-called experts saying the AK-47 was a knock off of the MP-44.
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Well, define "knock-off". The AK _is_ a copy of the MP44/StG44 inasmuch as they are both using a shortened rifle cartridge, large-capacity curved magazines, the select fire selector, and the similarities in shape and size; thus making the StG44 the first true assault rifle, and the AK47 the most widely used one. The intended purpose of both appears to be same, too. _Other than that_, they both function very different internally.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:18:35 AM EDT
I have been debating with myself on whether or not to watch this. On one hand wanting to. Because I love Texas history. And on the other knowing that it's probably revisionist crap. And only going to piss me off!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:29:10 AM EDT
Oh, you know I will be watching!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:33:26 AM EDT
I've already seen that show (unless they just did another one). It was on a few months ago, and it's pure crap. A lot of their information seemed like guesswork to me.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:35:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Tonight! Why do I think that somehow those noble Texicans (or 'Texiens', or 'Texians') are not going to fare well in this presentation? Well, I've been hearing audio snippets from the presentation all day long on the radio, and they don't sound complimentary! 'The Texicans bascially brought a knife to a gunfight' was one expert's view on the battle! As if the Texans had a choice! Well, anyway, watch it then turn to the Hun for further explanation and clarification of what truly happened! I will be more than happy to dispel the lies and half-truths that are bound to be presented! [:D] [url]http://www.historychannel.com/alamo/[/url] 'The Legend continues, but the Truth was massacred...' should serve as a warning about what is to come! Sort of like watching 'The Truth About Jesus' on network television.... Eric The(YeeeHaaawww!)Hun[>]:)]
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Sure, Hun. I'm guessing your version goes something like this: Half of the defenders were Zionists, it was really a Palestinian terror army that attacked the isolated Alamo, and in reality, the Palestinian army was soundly defeated, thus proving once again why Israel is our nearest and dearest ally even though they do nothing for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:38:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MountainMan8: Sure, Hun. I'm guessing your version goes something like this: Half of the defenders were Zionists, it was really a Palestinian terror army that attacked the isolated Alamo, and in reality, the Palestinian army was soundly defeated, thus proving once again why Israel is our nearest and dearest ally even though they do nothing for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc.
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*wanders off to find the spray-bottle of Windex© and some paper towels*
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:41:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:45:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:48:21 AM EDT
Actually the texiens were noble republican neo-cons fighting off the democratic tree-hugging hordes from a county to the south indulged in rampant eco protectionism.......you might as well push both of ETH's buttons.......
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:02:39 PM EDT
Revisionist are doing all they can to change our history. But I think they will have a hard time misconstruing the facts of what happened at San Jacinto.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:06:56 PM EDT
I'm gonna watch. I'd like to see how it is told. I believe that the truth is somewhat different than has been told to us for generations. Example would be Davey Crocket's last heroic stand vs hiding under a bed. I'd bet the latter is more likely true, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was there & did fight for what he believed in. The story told as we were growing up is merely propoganda from the victors point of view. I like the story, but that doesn't make it accurate.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:10:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil]
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I've been waiting too, but for the thread that's going to come up immediately [i]after[/i] the program. I just wish I had the History Channel.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:15:01 PM EDT
Did you know that Davey Crockett tried to sneak out in women's clothing and soiled himself when he was captured?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:25:19 PM EDT
Worse still, did you know that Travis was a LAWYER??!!!!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:32:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: Well, define "knock-off".
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A Knock off is a Polytech M14S or a DSA FAL.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:34:59 PM EDT
We HAVE to watch it. Know your enemy.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:38:28 PM EDT
i have to add. remember the Alamo [size=5] AND GOLIAD![/size=5] lest we forget.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:38:50 PM EDT
I think these programs are entertaining. They do it because they know no one who was there is alive to tell them they're full of crap.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:41:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:57:40 PM EDT
Back to the subject at hand boyz! My guess is that the show will discuss and put some stock into the latest revisionist history coming out of Mexico. This is the story, purportedly written by a Mexican officer after the war with Texas was over, that purportedly describes the "real" last stand by the noble defenders of the Alamo. Included in this man's thesis (IF in fact this Mexican officer really DID write it, and there is considerable speculation that it is not an original source, but a fake!) is the story of how Colonel Crockett and about ten other men survived the final assault by surrendering, were initially given quarter by the Mexican troops but were ordered executed by Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana when they were brought before him. The little prick did it at Goliad too. He said he was going to kill all who defied him...and he damn well tried. A couple of guys escaped the Goliad massacre to tell the tale. Frankly, I couldn't care less how those great men defending that little mission died. They defenders died gloriously, with their boots on, fighting for the most noble of causes...FREEDOM. All too quickly we take that for granted. Their ultimate sacrifice ought to be at the forefront of our culture...taught to all of our kids...what it MEANS to be FREE...and how FREEDOM is NEVER FREE! Those men bravely died that day not just for Texas...but for ALL of us. One thing has always bugged me. How that little bastard Santa Ana continued to survive and kept coming back as El Presidente again...and again...and again. Too bad he wasn't killed as a war criminal later...say after the Mexican-American War in 1848. THAT would have been sweet!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:01:56 PM EDT
err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com?? (There's nothing like the Clintonization of history to snap everyone's awareness back to the P.C. side of reality...) FITTER
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:21:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FITTER: err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com??
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Huh? Could you please fill in the blanks here, the steps that caused you to make that mental connection?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 1:24:41 PM EDT by JohnTheTexican]
Originally Posted By LWilde: Back to the subject at hand boyz! My guess is that the show will discuss and put some stock into the latest revisionist history coming out of Mexico. This is the story, purportedly written by a Mexican officer after the war with Texas was over, that purportedly describes the "real" last stand by the noble defenders of the Alamo. Included in this man's thesis (IF in fact this Mexican officer really DID write it, and there is considerable speculation that it is not an original source, but a fake!) is the story of how Colonel Crockett and about ten other men survived the final assault by surrendering, were initially given quarter by the Mexican troops but were ordered executed by Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana when they were brought before him. The little prick did it at Goliad too. He said he was going to kill all who defied him...and he damn well tried. A couple of guys escaped the Goliad massacre to tell the tale.
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That would be the account of Lt. Col. Jose Enrique de la Peña. Some people doubt the authenticity of the de la Peña manuscript because it surfaced long after the fact. Other historians believe it is genuine. And even if it's genuine, some question it's accuracy. According to de la Peña's account, Crockett was taken alive and executed on Santa Anna's orders, but there is no indication that he (Crockett) behaved dishonorably in any way. Anyway, according to the de la Peña account:
Some seven men had survived the general carnage and, under the protection of General Castrillon, they were brought before Santa Anna. Among them was one of great stature, well proportioned, with regular features, in whose face there was the imprint of adversity, but in whom one also noticed a degree of resignation and nobility that did him honor. He was the naturalist David Crockett, well known in North America for his unusual adventures, who had undertaken to explore the country and who, finding himself in Bejar at the very moment of surprise, had taken refuge in the Alamo, fearing that his status as a foreigner might not be respected. Santa Anna answered Castrillon's intervention in Crockett's behalf with a gesture of indignation and, addressing himself to the sappers, the troops closest to him, ordered his execution. The commanders and officers were outraged at this action and did not support the order, hoping that once the fury of the moment had blown over these men would be spared; but several officers who were around the president and who, perhaps, had not been present during the moment of danger, became noteworthy by an infamous deed, surpassing the soldiers in cruelty. They thrust themselves forward, in order to flatter their commander, and with swords in hand, fell upon these unfortunate, defenseless men just as a tiger leaps upon his prey. Though tortured before they were killed, these unfortunates died without complaining and without humiliating themselves before their torturers. It was rumored that General Santa Anna was one of them; I will not bear witness to this, for, though present, I turned away horrified in order not to witness such a barbarous scene.
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FWIW.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:25:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 1:26:37 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:39:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:49:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:11:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:20:25 PM EDT
Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? If so, I'd look for that to be painted as savage barbarians acting in an uncivilized matter, as opposed to the completely justifiable actions of SantaAnnas' army at the Alamo following typical revisionist PC nonsense. I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid. With the exception of the Santa Patricians I'm pretty much unfamiliar with the Texas war and the Mexican American war. Cpt. Redleg
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:25:12 PM EDT
the fact is "history is written by the victors" and since the texans won, of course their version of BS is going to live in legend. but that does'nt mean that's what really happened. In fact did you know? most "cowboy culture" is actually spanish! if it was up to Americans we'd still be riding with red coats and those stupid black hats going "tally ho old boy" ya know english Riding style. The Western style was taken from the Spanish ranch traditon which streached from Argentinas Pompus plains all the way through the 'Mexican' south west. As to gun slingers...did you know they were mostly 'eastern' inner city thugs (tha original OG's) who went out west to escape john law? in fact if your looking for the "cowboy" your looking for a half-spanish/half-irish inner city thug who's on the lam! oh wait that's me![ROFL]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:31:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cpt_Redleg: Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? .... I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid.
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The San Jacinto Battleground is about 75 miles from my home. It was a fine battle where the Texicans taught the Mexicans what happens when you mess with Texas.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:40:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cpt_Redleg: Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? If so, I'd look for that to be painted as savage barbarians acting in an uncivilized matter, as opposed to the completely justifiable actions of SantaAnnas' army at the Alamo following typical revisionist PC nonsense. I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid. With the exception of the Santa Patricians I'm pretty much unfamiliar with the Texas war and the Mexican American war. Cpt. Redleg
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Battle of San Jacinto located southeast of Houston. Remember the Alamo!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:19:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98:
Originally Posted By FITTER: err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com??
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Huh? Could you please fill in the blanks here, the steps that caused you to make that mental connection?
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If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake? Or is that just a myth, too?? FITTER :D
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:26:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FITTER: If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake?
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Only if everything you know is bullshit made up by bored people on the Internet. Today's word of the day is brought to you by the letter T; or maybe the B, as in balls. *tes·ti·mo·ny*: a solemn declaration usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official [url]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?testim02.wav=testimony[/url] In olden times, before an account of facts was given at a court of law, the person relating it had to grab his /testes/, or testicles and swear by his balls to speak the truth. This was obviously a very manly oath and was regarded as the ultimate evidence. No man was going to risk losing his balls in case he got caught lying. Hence the word "testimony". This custom has been all but forgotten, and nowadays the only remains of it can be seen on the streets, performed by burly men grabbing their crotch and shouting "Word!", as to assure their opposites that their "word" shall be nothing but the truth.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:32:24 PM EDT
OK, Before y'all flip out too much, one of the key authors who worked on the history of this was my Brigade XO in the 36th Infantry Brigade(patch seen to the left of this post) He nearly fired me for admitting I had never watched "The Searchers" This guy lives Texas. Airborne Ranger type with a CIB. Hell, the Regiment we take our infantry units from is the 141st. They take their direct lineage from the 7th Texas Infantry who fought in the Mexican American War. Their regimental motto is "Remember the Alamo." Back to the point at hand, the man is a historian. The script is based on a book he wrote and he continued to advise throughout the film. He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history. If you really must know what is in it, buy the book. Authors name is Huffines.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:33:01 PM EDT
OK, Before y'all flip out too much, one of the key authors who worked on the history of this was my Brigade XO in the 36th Infantry Brigade(patch seen to the left of this post) He nearly fired me for admitting I had never watched "The Searchers" This guy lives Texas. Airborne Ranger type with a CIB. Hell, the Regiment we take our infantry units from is the 141st. They take their direct lineage from the 7th Texas Infantry who fought in the Mexican American War. Their regimental motto is "Remember the Alamo." Back to the point at hand, the man is a historian. The script is based on a book he wrote and he continued to advise throughout the film. He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history. If you really must know what is in it, buy the book. Authors name is Huffines. Oh, the quote about "the knife to gunfight" guy is LTC Huffines.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:41:01 PM EDT
as one famous sgt. said..."only steers and queers come from texas"[flame][peep]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:10:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98:
Originally Posted By FITTER: If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake?
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Only if everything you know is bullshit made up by bored people on the Internet.
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Good point; it's for this very reason that I haven't paid much attention to that site. Some people do seem to thrive on it, and my intention was an apparently ill-fated attempt at humor. Lucky for me that I didn't try it at TSTSNBN. Good story WRT word origin. FITTER [url=http://mysite.freeserve.com/whirligig3/tv/davyckt.wav]Davy Crockett Song[/url]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:18:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sylvan: He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history.
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My sincere apologies to LTC Huffines, not meaning to imply that this BTDT was in any way P.C. I'll find his book. FITTER
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:35:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FITTER: [url=http://mysite.freeserve.com/whirligig3/tv/davyckt.wav]Davy Crockett Song[/url]
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Yeah! Thanks Fitter. I sang the 1st verse of that song at a PTA presentation when I was in the 3rd grade.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 5:06:04 PM EDT by GreyGhost]
I can't believe how many people are chomping at the bit to tear down an American legend.Yes, maybe some of the facts aren't quite right but some of the facts about our other hero's may not be quite right either.What is CERTAIN is this was a group of Americans(southerners of course)that had the balls to stand and die for their principles.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:06:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil]
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Yep, me too! Wonder if the history channel version will mirror James A. Michener's account, which I've always found much more believable than John Wayne's.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:49:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:37:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:52:23 PM EDT
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