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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:37:52 AM EDT
Tonight!
Why do I think that somehow those noble Texicans (or 'Texiens', or 'Texians') are not going to fare well in this presentation? Well, I've been hearing audio snippets from the presentation all day long on the radio, and they don't sound complimentary! 'The Texicans bascially brought a knife to a gunfight' was one expert's view on the battle! As if the Texans had a choice! Well, anyway, watch it then turn to the Hun for further explanation and clarification of what truly happened! I will be more than happy to dispel the lies and half-truths that are bound to be presented!  www.historychannel.com/alamo/ 'The Legend continues, but the Truth was massacred...' should serve as a warning about what is to come! Sort of like watching 'The Truth About Jesus' on network television.... Eric The(YeeeHaaawww!)Hun 
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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:54:30 AM EDT
[#1]
I and a friend were talking about this program this very morning.
I told him I wouldn't watch as it would only make me angry. Rewriting history. Stinkin' liberals. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:55:13 AM EDT
[#2]
I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil]
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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:56:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Yup, I grew up and went to school in Texas, I don't think the History channel and the Texas school system are going to agree.
I can see it now, the Brave band of outnumbered patriots are going to be turned into the seditionist cowardly rebels, and Santa Anna will become the brave benevolent General. Remember the Alamo! (as it was) |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:57:03 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil] Be nice now! [:D] Eric The(TrueBlueTexan)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:01:02 AM EDT
[#5]
The question is: Who's likely more biased, you or The History Channel. It takes a Texan...[nana]
I know where you are coming from though. I keep reading and seeing so-called experts saying the AK-47 was a knock off of the MP-44. The only thing similar is the intermediate cartridge, otherwise, they are quite different. If the AK is a copy of the MP 44, then the Garand is a copy of the RSC 1917. After all, the Garand adoped many of the features of the RSC '17. Gas operated, clip loaded, rotating bolt, full power cartridge, made of wood and machined steel... Hell, they are practically identical [rolleyes]. Let us know if there is a glaring mistake, or pure propaganda... |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:03:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil] Be nice now! [:D] Eric The(TrueBlueTexan)Hun[>]:)] What is this "nice" you speak of? [;)] I saw the commercial on Sunday, and IMMEDIATELY thought of you. I figured it was only a matter of time before the thread came up. Have just been waiting patiently. [:D] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:15:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I know where you are coming from though. I keep reading and seeing so-called experts saying the AK-47 was a knock off of the MP-44. Well, define "knock-off". The AK _is_ a copy of the MP44/StG44 inasmuch as they are both using a shortened rifle cartridge, large-capacity curved magazines, the select fire selector, and the similarities in shape and size; thus making the StG44 the first true assault rifle, and the AK47 the most widely used one. The intended purpose of both appears to be same, too. _Other than that_, they both function very different internally. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:18:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I have been debating with myself on whether or not to watch this.
On one hand wanting to. Because I love Texas history. And on the other knowing that it's probably revisionist crap. And only going to piss me off! |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:29:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Oh, you know I will be watching!
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#10]
I've already seen that show (unless they just did another one).
It was on a few months ago, and it's pure crap. A lot of their information seemed like guesswork to me. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:35:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Tonight! Why do I think that somehow those noble Texicans (or 'Texiens', or 'Texians') are not going to fare well in this presentation? Well, I've been hearing audio snippets from the presentation all day long on the radio, and they don't sound complimentary! 'The Texicans bascially brought a knife to a gunfight' was one expert's view on the battle! As if the Texans had a choice! Well, anyway, watch it then turn to the Hun for further explanation and clarification of what truly happened! I will be more than happy to dispel the lies and half-truths that are bound to be presented! [:D] [url]http://www.historychannel.com/alamo/[/url] 'The Legend continues, but the Truth was massacred...' should serve as a warning about what is to come! Sort of like watching 'The Truth About Jesus' on network television.... Eric The(YeeeHaaawww!)Hun[>]:)] Sure, Hun. I'm guessing your version goes something like this: Half of the defenders were Zionists, it was really a Palestinian terror army that attacked the isolated Alamo, and in reality, the Palestinian army was soundly defeated, thus proving once again why Israel is our nearest and dearest ally even though they do nothing for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:38:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Sure, Hun. I'm guessing your version goes something like this: Half of the defenders were Zionists, it was really a Palestinian terror army that attacked the isolated Alamo, and in reality, the Palestinian army was soundly defeated, thus proving once again why Israel is our nearest and dearest ally even though they do nothing for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc. *wanders off to find the spray-bottle of Windex© and some paper towels* |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:41:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Post from MountainMan8 -
Sure, Hun. I'm guessing your version goes something like this: Half of the defenders were Zionists, it was really a Palestinian terror army that attacked the isolated Alamo, and in reality, the Palestinian army was soundly defeated, thus proving once again why Israel is our nearest and dearest ally even though they do nothing for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc. No. Eric The(BrevityIsTheSoulOfWit)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:45:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I've already seen that show (unless they just did another one. They are advertising it as a 'Premier', but you know it's the History Channel, so who knows? Eric The(Anxious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:48:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Actually the texiens were noble republican neo-cons fighting off the democratic tree-hugging hordes from a county to the south indulged in rampant eco protectionism.......you might as well push both of ETH's buttons.......
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:02:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Revisionist are doing all they can to change our history.
But I think they will have a hard time misconstruing the facts of what happened at San Jacinto. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:06:56 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm gonna watch. I'd like to see how it is told. I believe that the truth is somewhat different than has been told to us for generations. Example would be Davey Crocket's last heroic stand vs hiding under a bed. I'd bet the latter is more likely true, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was there & did fight for what he believed in. The story told as we were growing up is merely propoganda from the victors point of view. I like the story, but that doesn't make it accurate.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:10:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil] I've been waiting too, but for the thread that's going to come up immediately [i]after[/i] the program. I just wish I had the History Channel. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:15:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Did you know that Davey Crockett tried to sneak out in women's clothing and soiled himself when he was captured?
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:25:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Worse still, did you know that Travis was a LAWYER??!!!!
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Well, define "knock-off". A Knock off is a Polytech M14S or a DSA FAL. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:34:59 PM EDT
[#22]
We HAVE to watch it. Know your enemy.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:38:28 PM EDT
[#23]
i have to add. remember the Alamo [size=5] AND GOLIAD![/size=5]
lest we forget. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#24]
I think these programs are entertaining.
They do it because they know no one who was there is alive to tell them they're full of crap. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#25]
I plan to watch it - could turn out to be interesting.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:57:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Back to the subject at hand boyz!
My guess is that the show will discuss and put some stock into the latest revisionist history coming out of Mexico. This is the story, purportedly written by a Mexican officer after the war with Texas was over, that purportedly describes the "real" last stand by the noble defenders of the Alamo. Included in this man's thesis (IF in fact this Mexican officer really DID write it, and there is considerable speculation that it is not an original source, but a fake!) is the story of how Colonel Crockett and about ten other men survived the final assault by surrendering, were initially given quarter by the Mexican troops but were ordered executed by Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana when they were brought before him. The little prick did it at Goliad too. He said he was going to kill all who defied him...and he damn well tried. A couple of guys escaped the Goliad massacre to tell the tale. Frankly, I couldn't care less how those great men defending that little mission died. They defenders died gloriously, with their boots on, fighting for the most noble of causes...FREEDOM. All too quickly we take that for granted. Their ultimate sacrifice ought to be at the forefront of our culture...taught to all of our kids...what it MEANS to be FREE...and how FREEDOM is NEVER FREE! Those men bravely died that day not just for Texas...but for ALL of us. One thing has always bugged me. How that little bastard Santa Ana continued to survive and kept coming back as El Presidente again...and again...and again. Too bad he wasn't killed as a war criminal later...say after the Mexican-American War in 1848. THAT would have been sweet! |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:01:56 PM EDT
[#27]
err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com??
(There's nothing like the Clintonization of history to snap everyone's awareness back to the P.C. side of reality...) FITTER |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:21:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com?? Huh? Could you please fill in the blanks here, the steps that caused you to make that mental connection? |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Back to the subject at hand boyz! My guess is that the show will discuss and put some stock into the latest revisionist history coming out of Mexico. This is the story, purportedly written by a Mexican officer after the war with Texas was over, that purportedly describes the "real" last stand by the noble defenders of the Alamo. Included in this man's thesis (IF in fact this Mexican officer really DID write it, and there is considerable speculation that it is not an original source, but a fake!) is the story of how Colonel Crockett and about ten other men survived the final assault by surrendering, were initially given quarter by the Mexican troops but were ordered executed by Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana when they were brought before him. The little prick did it at Goliad too. He said he was going to kill all who defied him...and he damn well tried. A couple of guys escaped the Goliad massacre to tell the tale. That would be the account of Lt. Col. Jose Enrique de la Peña. Some people doubt the authenticity of the de la Peña manuscript because it surfaced long after the fact. Other historians believe it is genuine. And even if it's genuine, some question it's accuracy. According to de la Peña's account, Crockett was taken alive and executed on Santa Anna's orders, but there is no indication that he (Crockett) behaved dishonorably in any way. Anyway, according to the de la Peña account: Some seven men had survived the general carnage and, under the protection of General Castrillon, they were brought before Santa Anna. Among them was one of great stature, well proportioned, with regular features, in whose face there was the imprint of adversity, but in whom one also noticed a degree of resignation and nobility that did him honor. He was the naturalist David Crockett, well known in North America for his unusual adventures, who had undertaken to explore the country and who, finding himself in Bejar at the very moment of surprise, had taken refuge in the Alamo, fearing that his status as a foreigner might not be respected. Santa Anna answered Castrillon's intervention in Crockett's behalf with a gesture of indignation and, addressing himself to the sappers, the troops closest to him, ordered his execution. The commanders and officers were outraged at this action and did not support the order, hoping that once the fury of the moment had blown over these men would be spared; but several officers who were around the president and who, perhaps, had not been present during the moment of danger, became noteworthy by an infamous deed, surpassing the soldiers in cruelty. They thrust themselves forward, in order to flatter their commander, and with swords in hand, fell upon these unfortunate, defenseless men just as a tiger leaps upon his prey. Though tortured before they were killed, these unfortunates died without complaining and without humiliating themselves before their torturers. It was rumored that General Santa Anna was one of them; I will not bear witness to this, for, though present, I turned away horrified in order not to witness such a barbarous scene. FWIW. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:25:37 PM EDT
[#30]
LOL I hope the Texas cardiac units are ready for the onslaught popped coronary arteries. This is one of those things like the "noble southern slaveholders" myth (not that I am saying the two are similar except as hot button issues) that some people cannot discuss rationally, there is too much mythology associated with them. If Davy Crockett rose from the grave and swore he was in Tijuana that weekend some Texans would probably shoot him down.
I heard Disney did recall The Alamo movie because of the outrage of audiences at making Davy Crocket out to be a pussy and writing it to make the mexicans look better to appeal to hispanics. How do you make the dimwits who with almost 2000 soldiers took a couple of weeks to defeat a force of less than 200 look good? [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:39:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Sorry, [b]Aimless[/b], but we've heard all this shiite too many times before to have heart attacks over it!
Just put yourself in Col. Crockett's situation. All around you your friends and relations have been killed before your eyes in the final two hours of the battle. In that heat of battle, what in God's Name would make you think that you could simply lay down 'Ol Betsy' and speak English with sufficient clarity that the Mexican soldiers, also hot-blooded from the battle, would grant you a chance to speak with the Generalissimo Santa Anna? [i]Dageullo[/i] had already been sounded that morning, the black flag fluttered, and 'No Quarter' was the order of the day! The simplest answer is always the most likely answer. Col. Crockett died with his men while engaged in a hot and bloody fight for liberty. Period. Besides Col. Crockett and some of his men, were any other defenders also captured, whether Anglo or Tejano? Doesn't that tell you something of what actually occurred? Eric The(SimpleEnough)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 1:49:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Huh? Where did I saw whether anyone surrendered or got slaughtered? I don't know anything about it one way or the other, except seeing a Disney film about it when I was a tike, that was pretty good.
I don't think my coonskin cap would fit anymore even if I could find it, I do have the knife though. [:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:11:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Sorry, [b]Aimless[/b], but I thought your remark about Col. Crockett rising from the grave to tell us about his weekend in Tiajuana was a reference to some Texans thinking that even HE should be shot if HE messed around with a fine Texas Legend!
But think about what I said, anyway! Eric The(Rational)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:20:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? If so, I'd look for that to be painted as savage barbarians acting in an uncivilized matter, as opposed to the completely justifiable actions of SantaAnnas' army at the Alamo following typical revisionist PC nonsense.
I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid. With the exception of the Santa Patricians I'm pretty much unfamiliar with the Texas war and the Mexican American war. Cpt. Redleg |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:25:12 PM EDT
[#35]
the fact is "history is written by the victors" and since the texans won, of course their version of BS is going to live in legend. but that does'nt mean that's what really happened. In fact did you know? most "cowboy culture" is actually spanish! if it was up to Americans we'd still be riding with red coats and those stupid black hats going "tally ho old boy" ya know english Riding style. The Western style was taken from the Spanish ranch traditon which streached from Argentinas Pompus plains all the way through the 'Mexican' south west. As to gun slingers...did you know they were mostly 'eastern' inner city thugs (tha original OG's) who went out west to escape john law? in fact if your looking for the "cowboy" your looking for a half-spanish/half-irish inner city thug who's on the lam! oh wait that's me![ROFL]
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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:31:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? .... I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid. The San Jacinto Battleground is about 75 miles from my home. It was a fine battle where the Texicans taught the Mexicans what happens when you mess with Texas. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 2:40:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Didn't the Texans get even by slaughtering the Mexicans at some battle later down the line? If so, I'd look for that to be painted as savage barbarians acting in an uncivilized matter, as opposed to the completely justifiable actions of SantaAnnas' army at the Alamo following typical revisionist PC nonsense. I can't remember the name of the battle, I'm afraid. With the exception of the Santa Patricians I'm pretty much unfamiliar with the Texas war and the Mexican American war. Cpt. Redleg Battle of San Jacinto located southeast of Houston. Remember the Alamo! |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 3:19:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: err... is there any connection between The History Channel and Snopes.com?? Huh? Could you please fill in the blanks here, the steps that caused you to make that mental connection? If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake? Or is that just a myth, too?? FITTER :D |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 3:26:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake? Only if everything you know is bullshit made up by bored people on the Internet. Today's word of the day is brought to you by the letter T; or maybe the B, as in balls. *tes·ti·mo·ny*: a solemn declaration usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official [url]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?testim02.wav=testimony[/url] In olden times, before an account of facts was given at a court of law, the person relating it had to grab his /testes/, or testicles and swear by his balls to speak the truth. This was obviously a very manly oath and was regarded as the ultimate evidence. No man was going to risk losing his balls in case he got caught lying. Hence the word "testimony". This custom has been all but forgotten, and nowadays the only remains of it can be seen on the streets, performed by burly men grabbing their crotch and shouting "Word!", as to assure their opposites that their "word" shall be nothing but the truth. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 3:32:24 PM EDT
[#40]
OK,
Before y'all flip out too much, one of the key authors who worked on the history of this was my Brigade XO in the 36th Infantry Brigade(patch seen to the left of this post) He nearly fired me for admitting I had never watched "The Searchers" This guy lives Texas. Airborne Ranger type with a CIB. Hell, the Regiment we take our infantry units from is the 141st. They take their direct lineage from the 7th Texas Infantry who fought in the Mexican American War. Their regimental motto is "Remember the Alamo." Back to the point at hand, the man is a historian. The script is based on a book he wrote and he continued to advise throughout the film. He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history. If you really must know what is in it, buy the book. Authors name is Huffines. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 3:33:01 PM EDT
[#41]
OK,
Before y'all flip out too much, one of the key authors who worked on the history of this was my Brigade XO in the 36th Infantry Brigade(patch seen to the left of this post) He nearly fired me for admitting I had never watched "The Searchers" This guy lives Texas. Airborne Ranger type with a CIB. Hell, the Regiment we take our infantry units from is the 141st. They take their direct lineage from the 7th Texas Infantry who fought in the Mexican American War. Their regimental motto is "Remember the Alamo." Back to the point at hand, the man is a historian. The script is based on a book he wrote and he continued to advise throughout the film. He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history. If you really must know what is in it, buy the book. Authors name is Huffines. Oh, the quote about "the knife to gunfight" guy is LTC Huffines. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 3:41:01 PM EDT
[#42]
as one famous sgt. said..."only steers and queers come from texas"[flame][peep]
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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:10:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: If memory serves me correctly, isn't Snopes that site that trys to make it look like everything you already know is fake? Only if everything you know is bullshit made up by bored people on the Internet. Good point; it's for this very reason that I haven't paid much attention to that site. Some people do seem to thrive on it, and my intention was an apparently ill-fated attempt at humor. Lucky for me that I didn't try it at TSTSNBN. Good story WRT word origin. FITTER [url=http://mysite.freeserve.com/whirligig3/tv/davyckt.wav]Davy Crockett Song[/url] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:18:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: He is not PC in the slightest. He, like all historians, thinks the truth is of more value. This film is based on the most historical representation possible, not some PC rewrite of history. My sincere apologies to LTC Huffines, not meaning to imply that this BTDT was in any way P.C. I'll find his book. FITTER |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:35:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: [url=http://mysite.freeserve.com/whirligig3/tv/davyckt.wav]Davy Crockett Song[/url] Yeah! Thanks Fitter. I sang the 1st verse of that song at a PTA presentation when I was in the 3rd grade. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:57:04 PM EDT
[#46]
I can't believe how many people are chomping at the bit to tear down an American legend.Yes, maybe some of the facts aren't quite right but some of the facts about our other hero's may not be quite right either.What is CERTAIN is this was a group of Americans(southerners of course)that had the balls to stand and die for their principles.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 5:06:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I have been waiting 2 days for this thread. [devil] Yep, me too! Wonder if the history channel version will mirror James A. Michener's account, which I've always found much more believable than John Wayne's. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 5:49:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: What is CERTAIN is this was a group of Americans(southerners of course)that had the balls to stand and die for their principals. Seriously though, are you sure this show is new? I thought I saw this already at my mom's house, there was something about the Alamo and I remember them referring to this theory that they did not all die at the same time but I was not paying very close attention. I think they were claiming that one of the leaders was injured and was captured in an infirmary, I don't remember much more about it than that. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 6:37:10 PM EDT
[#49]
How can any American not know the details of the Texas Revolution, and especially the story of the Alamo?
I suppose that Harry Truman was correct when he said - [b]There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know.[/b] Eric The(WelcomeToTheNewWorld)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 6:52:23 PM EDT
[#50]
And I bet most Texans could rattle off what happened at the Battle of Saratoga, Fort Ticonderoga and The Green Mountain boys transportation of the cannons from Ticonderoga to Cambridge.
In February. |
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