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Posted: 12/16/2003 6:56:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: And I bet most Texans could rattle off what happened at the Battle of Saratoga, Fort Ticonderoga and The Green Mountain boys transportation of the cannons from Ticonderoga to Cambridge. In February. Damn straight we could! It is [u]our[/u] history, as well! I'll be right back to show you why y'all should know as much about our history as we do yours! Eric The(WideRanging)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:02:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I think these programs are entertaining. They do it because they know no one who was there is alive to tell them they're full of crap. Just like there is no one alive to tell you that you are full of crap. Hell, none of us really know what happened there. Everyone is condemning the program without having even seen it yet. Sheesh. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:07:15 PM EDT
[#3]
... On now [b]Mountain States[/b] folks
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:10:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: And I bet most Texans could rattle off what happened at the Battle of Saratoga, Fort Ticonderoga and The Green Mountain boys transportation of the cannons from Ticonderoga to Cambridge. In February. Damn straight we could! It is [u]our[/u] history, as well! I'll be right back to show you why y'all should know as much about our history as we do yours! Eric The(WideRanging)Hun[>]:)] "Oh you're from New York City? I thought you had an accent." (true story- the cashier at Bass Pro Shop in Nashville after asking to look at my driver's license to verify my credit card) I have to hit the hay now guys, though I look forward to seeing what ETH comes up with tomorrow-night. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:10:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Here is the official list of the Defenders at the Alamo, and their birthplaces, if known:
Juan Abamillo, San Antonio R. Allen [b]Mills DeForrest Andross, Vermont[/b] Micajah Autry, N.C. Juan A. Badillo, San Antonio Peter James Bailey, Ky. Isaac G. Baker, Ark. William Charles M. Baker, Mo. John J. Ballentine Richard W. Ballantine, Scotland John J. Baugh, Va Joseph Bayliss, Tenn. John Blair, Tenn. Samuel C. Blair, Tenn. William Blazeby, England James Butler Bonham, S.C. Daniel Bourne, England James Bowie, Tenn Jesse B. Bowman George Brown, England [b]James Brown, Pa.[/b] Robert Brown James Buchanan, Ala. Samuel E. Burns, Ireland George D. Butler, Mo Robert Campbell, Tenn. [b]John Cane, Pa.[/b] William R. Carey, Va. Charles Henry Clark, Mo M.B. Clark Daniel William Cloud, Ky. [b]Robert E. Cochran, N.J.[/b] George Washington Cottle, Tenn. Henry Courtman, Germany Lemuel Crawford, S.C. David Crockett, Tenn. [b]Robert Crossman, Mass. David P. Cummings, Pa. Robert Cunningham, N.Y.[/b] Jacob C. Darst, Ky. John Davis, Ky. Freeman H. K. Day Jerry C. Day, Mo. Squire Daymon, Tenn. William Dearduff, Tenn. Stephen Dennison, England Charles Despallier, La. Almeron Dickinson, Tenn. John H. Dillard, Tenn. James R. Dimpkins, England [b]Lewis Duel, N.Y.[/b] Andrew Duvalt, Ireland Carlos Espalier, San Antonio Gregorio Esparza, San Antonio Robert Evans, Ireland [b]Samuel B. Evans, N.Y.[/b] James L. Ewing, Tenn William Fahbaugh, Ala. [b]John Flanders, Mass.[/b] Dolphin Ward Floyd, N.C. [b]John Hubbard Forsyth, N.Y.[/b] Antonio Fuentes, San Antonio Galba Fuqua, Ala. William H. Furtleroy, Ky. William Garnett, Tenn. James W. Garrand, La. James Girard Garrett, Tenn. John E. Garvin John E. Gaston. Ky. James George John Camp Goodrich, Tenn. Albert Calvin Grimes, Ga. Jose Maria Guerrero, Laredo, Tex. James C. Gwynne, England James Hannum John Harris, Ky. Andrew Jackson Harrison [b]William B. Harrison, Ohio[/b] Charles M. Haskell (Heiskell), Tenn. Joseph M. Hawkins, Ireland John M. Hays, Tenn. Patrick Henry Herndon, Va. William D. Hersee, England [b]Tapley Holland, Ohio Samuel Holloway, Pa. William D. Howell, Mass.[/b] Thomas Jackson, Ireland William Daniel Jackson, Ireland Green B. Jameson, Ky. [b]Gordon C. Jennings, Conn.[/b] Damacio Jimenes, Tex. Lewis Johnson, Wales [b]William Johnson, Pa.[/b] [b]John Jones, N.Y[/b] Johnnie Kellog James Kenney, Va. Andrew Kent, Ky. Joseph Kerr, La. [b]George C. Kimball (Kimble), N.Y.[/b] William P. King William Irvine Lewis, Va. William J. Lightfoot, Va. [b]Jonalhan L. Lindley, IL. William Linn, Mass.[/b] Jose Toribio Losoya, San Antonio George Washington Main, Va. William T. Malone, Va. William Marshall, Tenn. [b]Albert Martin, Rhode Island[/b] Edward McCafferty Jesse McCoy, Tenn. [b]William McDowell, Pa.[/b] James McGee, Ireland John McGregor, Scotland Robert McKinney, Ireland Eliel Melton, Ga. Thomas R. Miller, Tenn. William Mills, Tenn. Isaac Millsaps, Miss. Edward F. Mitchusson, Va. Edwin T. Mitchell Napoleon B. Mitchell Robert B. Moore, Va. William Moore, Miss. [b]Robert Musselman, Ohio[/b] Andres Nava, San Antonio George Neggan, S.C. Andrew M. Nelson, Tenn. Edward Nelson S. C. George Nelson S.C. James Northcross, Va. James Nowlan, Ireland George Pagan, Miss. Christopher Parker, Miss. William Parks, N.C. Richardson Perry [b]Amos Pollard, Mass. John Purdy Reynolds, Pa.[/b] Thomas H. Roberts James Robertson, Tenn. Isaac Robinson, Scotland James M. Rose, Va. Jackson J. Rusk Ireland Joseph Rutherford, Ky. Isaac Ryan, La. Mial Scurlock, N.C. Marcus L. Sewell, England Manson Shied, Ga. Cleveland Kinlock Simmons, S.C. Andrew H. Smith, Tenn. Charles S. Smith, Md. Joshua G. Smith, N.C. William H. Smith Richard Starr, England James E. Stewart, England Richard L. Stockton, Va. A. Spain Summerlin Tenn William E. Summers Tenn William D. Sutherland, Ala. Edward Taylor, Tenn. George Taylor, Tenn. James Taylor, Tenn. William Taylor, Tenn. B. Archer M. Thomas, Ky. Henry Thomas, Germany Jesse G. Thompson, Ark. John W. Thomson, N.C. [b]John M. Thruston, Pa.[/b] Burke Trammel, Ireland William Barret Travis, S.C. George W. Tumlinson, Mo. [b]James Tylee, N.Y.[/b] Asa Walker, Tenn. Jacob Walker, Tenn. William B. Ward, Ireland Henry Warnell, Ark. Joseph G. Washington, Tenn. Thomas Waters, England William Wells, Ga. Isaac White, Ky. Robert White [b]Hiram J. Williamson, Pa.[/b] William Wills David L. Wilson, Scotland [b]John Wilson, Pa.[/b] Anthony Wolfe, England Claiborne Wright, N.C. Charles Zanco, Denmark John, Negro Now, let's see....I count at least 27 Yankees among the honored dead, with 7 of them from the State of New York! I suppose that's something they just don't teach children up North, eh? Don't worry, though, we are honoring your dead down here in Texas, where no matter where they were born, they died as [b]Texans![/b] It just don't get any better than that! [:D] Eric The(DamnIToldYoutoPayAttention)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:15:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Post from Aimless -
LOL, yeah, sure, how come every time I travel south of Virginia everyone seems to think all of New York State is in the five boroughs. Damn, [b]Aimless[/b], that is surely funny, for when I am in New York City, [u]they[/u] think the entire State of New York is located within those same five boroughs! [:D] Tell me I'm lying! Eric The(Heh-Heh-Heh)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:18:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Figures.
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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:30:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Damn, [b]Aimless[/b], that is surely funny, for when I am in New York City, [u]they[/u] think the entire State of New York is located within those same five boroughs! [:D] Tell me I'm lying! Eric The(Heh-Heh-Heh)Hun[>]:)] Sure I knew that there were people from other parts of the country (country to be) both with the Army and the Volunteers. I actually thought there more guys than that came from Tennessee though. I suppose they might be listing birth states there though. You guys are keeping up too late again, good night! |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 9:20:08 PM EDT
[#9]
I thought the show was horribly inaccurate. They never once showed the basement.
[img]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/reddragon/Covers/P/PeeWee%20frtsmll.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 9:25:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I thought the show was horribly inaccurate. They never once showed the basement. [url]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/reddragon/Covers/P/PeeWee%20frtsmll.jpg[/url] [LOL] |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 10:02:13 PM EDT
[#11]
The alamo has already fallen to teh enemy- again!!!
The coverage had definitely changed in the last 10 years. Now that mexicans are the majority in san antonio, it's now being given a different spin. Now the fucking mexicans [b]protest[/b] during the celebration of the battle of the alamo!!!! Turns your stomach. |
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Posted: 12/16/2003 11:28:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Here is the official list of the Defenders at the Alamo, and their birthplaces, if known: You forgot [url=http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/smithjohnwilliam.htm]John W Smith[/url] [i]...he completed a daring ride through enemy lines over 200 miles in less than 57 hours carrying Travis' last dispatch and the last words of the men of the Alamo who died fighting for their beliefs.[/i] He was the last messenger from the Alamo, who carried the famous "Victory or Death" message. And he was my 4th great grandfather. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 1:21:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Didn't the Mexicans overfly the Alamo in a hot air balloon sold to them by the French and drop a refried atomic bomb they called "Hombre Gordo" on it? [;D]
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Posted: 12/17/2003 1:38:06 AM EDT
[#14]
The impression I got from the History Channel special was that Bowie was a scoundrel. Travis was said to be a man who ran from his debts and the rest were portrayed as trying to stir up an unwanted revolution among loyal Mexican citizens. If you believe the special, it's a wonder the revolution happened at all. Whether Crockett died fighting or was executed doesn't matter. He died fighting for Texas independence. I thought the Texans didn't reinforce the Alamo because they were under strength, not because of bickering among themselves. All in all, I was pretty disappointed in the special and its politically correct spin.
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Posted: 12/17/2003 3:32:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Remembering my Texas history class from high school, which in those days was a mandatory class for all students (not sure if it still is today) I saw nothing that I didn't already know. Take a tour of the Alamo with an official guide from the state and you'll get pretty much the same story too. Sam Houston choise not to reinforce the Alamo because he knew he was outnumbered by a professional army. Houston new the Alamo was buying him time and waited and choise the time to engage Santa Anna, on his terms, and it worked out.
No matter what the story is, they were a bunch of brave men that died there. Santa Anna burned their bodies and their ashes are now in the entrance to an old church in San Antonio not far from the Alamo. So, Remember the Alamo, Remember Pearl Harbor. Remember what they were and what they stand for and the brave people who died there. There's just some things you ought not to forget. Ya know? |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 4:54:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Here is the official list of the Defenders at the Alamo, and their birthplaces, if known: You forgot [url=http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/smithjohnwilliam.htm]John W Smith[/url] [i]...he completed a daring ride through enemy lines over 200 miles in less than 57 hours carrying Travis' last dispatch and the last words of the men of the Alamo who died fighting for their beliefs.[/i] He was the last messenger from the Alamo, who carried the famous "Victory or Death" message. And he was my 4th great grandfather. Actually, I only included those who we know DIED at the Alano. There were many others, about a dozen or so, who were at the Alamo and left for one reason or the other before the Mexican Army appeared, or shortly thereafter. I'll look for that link...I have posted it on this Board once before! It's amazing! Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 5:15:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Ya know this was the perfect thread to take some cheap shots at Texans and Texas but alas I can not, Jim Bowie (one of my most respected hero's) was in the Alamo and he gave his all too.
God bless Texas and those brave souls who fought to the death for what they believed in. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 5:19:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Ya know this was the perfect thread to take some cheap shots at Texans and Texas but alas I can not, Jim Bowie (one of my most respected hero's) was in the Alamo and he gave his all too. God bless Texas and those brave souls who fought to the death for what they believed in. Okay. Who are you and what have you done with jrzy. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 6:36:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: The alamo has already fallen to teh enemy- again!!! The coverage had definitely changed in the last 10 years. Now that mexicans are the majority in san antonio, it's now being given a different spin. Now the fucking mexicans [b]protest[/b] during the celebration of the battle of the alamo!!!! Turns your stomach. The funny thing is that the folks responsible for the oppression that brought about the Texas Revolution were not Mexicans either, they lived there, they made their fortunes there, but they were Spaniards of the blood, mostly noblemen and the descendants of noblemen who went to Mexico for Gold. They held not only the Texicans and Tejanos in submission, but also the native indian derived Mexicans and had done for 3-4 hundred years. Most of the higher positions of authority and commerce in Mexico today are still held by Spaniards. A friend of mine is descended from Spanish "mexican" nobility on his mother's side (his father is an American descended from Scots.) Many of his relatives on his mother's side are obviously european looking still after generations of only marrying among other Spanish descended Mexicans. Blond or red hair and light colored eyes still pop up regularly. By contrast, the Mexican immigrants coming to the US are almost universally indian derived mexicans from the peasant class. Their role in the war was as cannon fodder for their overloards. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 6:39:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Noticed in that list that there were an awful lot of folks from across the sea, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, a couple Germans, a Netherlander, but no French.
One thing I have heard played up recently is that Jim Bowie was nothing more than a criminal caught in the noose and his presence at the Alamo enobled an otherwise dispicable character. Did they make a major point of that in the History Channel piece? |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 6:48:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Whatever you think about the History Channel's version, I'll bet money you'll like it a lot better than the Hollywood version that is coming out.
Billy Bob Thornton as Davy Crockett? Was Pee Wee Herman not available? |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 6:52:55 AM EDT
[#22]
A follow up to my last post about Bowie. Personally I don't really care what he did, or Travis did or anyone else did before The Alamo. The truth of our culture is that America is largely populated by folks who were outcasts from their homelands or their home states for one reason or another who migrated under the harshest possible conditions and started over, sometimes again and again, until they made it stick, and in the process, they created the greatest nation in the world.
Sam Adams (despite a successful beer company named for him) was an abject failure at every business he put his hand to except one...rabble rousing and patriotism. Good enough. Thomas Jefferson was largely a failure as a President, going back on many of the principle he had stood for prior to ascending to the presidency, but two acts made him immortal, the Declaration of Independence and the Louisianna Purchase. Jefferson was also responsible for a great deal of academic advancement at the time, but that is another issue. Often it is a single act, or a single cluster of related acts, that end up defining a life. Davy Crockett's life would have been memorable, but not nearly so much so if he hadn't been killed in Texas, fighting for liberty. Jim Bowie would have vanished into the mists of time, hardly a footnote, but he died for liberty. The same is true of Travis and Houston. For a short time they stood up and their lives were defined by those acts. On the other side is former president Clinton, whose presidency will ultimately be defined by the acts of another upon him. What a way to go down in history, Monica Lewinsky, the girl who blew Clinton. And I bet these folks look down on Bowie and Crockett and Travis as ruffians. One moment can define a lifetime. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 7:31:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: One thing I have heard played up recently is that Jim Bowie was nothing more than a criminal caught in the noose and his presence at the Alamo enobled an otherwise dispicable character. Did they make a major point of that in the History Channel piece? His criminal acts were noted as well as his courage, leadership and fidelity to his friends. [:)] [devil] |
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