AR Precision Testing (Page 4 of 8)
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Ready for tomorrow... https://i.imgur.com/YzzoUsf.jpg 80 eld, 95smk https://i.imgur.com/PBEwUbF.jpg 95smk, 80eld, 75eld & 77smk comparison pic https://i.imgur.com/9CP418s.jpg I also grabbed some 52smk’s to pair with the 52 eld’s I grabbed a few weeks back. Not exactly what one person requested (53gr Vmax) to be tested in the DD barrel, but I think it could be used in his discipline. The short range precision is supposed to be great with these. |
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Had to swap rails between the two 224’s to account for the height of the SA gas block, but I’m digging the look. Interesting observation; when measuring the distance to the lands, there was less than .004” difference. Initial testing of the RA will be without a muzzle device, then I’ll test with the SAS TOMB brake to allow use of the SAS Reaper MX suppressor. Initial testing with the WOA barrel showed improvements when using a suppressor, but that could also be due to the bore getting fouled. 
22” WOA rifle length gas w/ the 17.25” JP MKiii RC rail, and the 24” Rainier Arms Ultramatch +2 gas w/ the Seekins 15” MCSR v.2 
Rainier wins on the better engraving... |
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Post bronchitis bump. Breaking my rule, but I’ll put more rounds downrange with these before long.
Briefly went out to see how the Rainier Ultramatch would do before I hit 90 days from time of purchase. I forgot my Allen key for the SA gas block, but I was able to manually cycle and test two loads to get an idea of how the RA will perform. Both were very similar. Limited number of shots, but I’m optimistic and don’t think I’ll be sending this barrel back! I’ll be loading some of these to test at extended range in the coming month.  Also tested out the WOA 224VALKYRIE with a few loads before taking it out to steel at 500yds with factory Hornady 88’s. While they shoot decent, I think the factory 88’s would do much better if loaded 15-20 thou longer. The boxes that I have range from ~2.239-2.241. I may try to extend the COAL on a few to test this theory out. 
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Originally Posted By USMC_JA:
Such a great thread. |
Brief testing of the 224’s from yesterday. The range trip was primarily to test a few loads with my 6 creedmoor and 105 bergers for a match next weekend, so there wasn’t much time for the gas guns. I only shot 1 group with the WOA before handing it off to my girlfriend and the RO’s so that they could try it out. The RO’s got a few groups with the AE 75gr ammo that were around .8-1.0 moa. No pictures, but they were surprisingly good groups. My group was ridiculously good, but I would not expect that from 10$ a box ammo consistently.
Next was testing a few loads with the 24” Rainier Ultramatch. I made some adjustments to the gas system since the last outing and it ran perfect. All groups were under moa and it started to group better once I pushed it harder. Normally I don’t include load data, but since it’s a newer cartridge, I decided to include it on my target picture. NOTE: These loads work in my rifle. As always, work up loads in your rifle following safe reloading practices. 
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You continue to demonstrate excellent shooting. Again, thanks in no small part to you (my wallet curses you), I got distracted from my JP and built up a 556 SPR: CLE turned and installed Bartlein 17.9 SPR 1:7.7, CLE Chamber on a Vltor Upper Mk16 rail Noveske Gen III lower HSNM G trigger (I DIG this trigger for a precision AR. It is flat out awesome sauce.) A5 RE First range trip was rushed with barrel break-in and setting up the gas but she shows some promise. Easy 3/4 MOA 5-shot groups with factory ammo. Less than 30 rounds in the log book. 
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"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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@USMC_JA
Thanks for the kind words and congrats on the sharp build! Check out Global Ordnance if you’re looking for some ammo to try. They are a site sponsor/vendor and currently have a special going with ADI 69gr 223 ammo. Probably not ideal for longer range, but it’s good stuff for 100-300yd shooting. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
@USMC_JA Thanks for the kind words and congrats on the sharp build! Check out Global Ordnance if you’re looking for some ammo to try. They are a site sponsor/vendor and currently have a special going with ADI 69gr 223 ammo. Probably not ideal for longer range, but it’s good stuff for 100-300yd shooting. ETA: I bought some anyway. |
"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Not formally, but it will be up soon. I’m also going to try and borrow a friends 6.5 creed X-caliber. |
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
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Don't want to start my own thread, so hope this follow up post to the one above is ok, SuperJ. The Bartlein barrel on my SPR clearly started to settle in between rounds 50 and 70. The last two groups of the day (rounds 80-90) were with the same ammo as the previous post (Black Hills 75 gr). Groups are headed towards .5 MOA. I need to learn to be a better shooter...I see one hole groups and I inevitably fuck one up. BTW....First box of the 69gr Aussie stuff was uninspiring. .75-1MOA. But I've got another box to try. 
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"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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Awesome shooting! Bartlein barrels are stellar! I run them exclusively on my bolt match rifles.
Is the flier the first or last round fired? There may be some factors other than the trigger puller at play since it’s present in both groups. Can you measure the BTO on the BH 75gr load? |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Awesome shooting! Bartlein barrels are stellar! I run them exclusively on my bolt match rifles. Is the flier the first or last round fired? There may be some factors other than the trigger puller at play since it’s present in both groups. Can you measure the BTO on the BH 75gr load? The "flier" was round 4 in each of the above two groups. I saw a 3-shot clover leaf, got excited, and yanked the shot. After I saw that I screwed up the group, round 5 was much easier. No anxiety. They were both me...zero doubt about it. I knew I yanked them the second I let the round go. I packed up my stuff after those rounds. So, next trip out, we will see if I can do better. This rifle/barrel is already feeling more accurate than the JP I've posted before. And the suppressor doesn't both it one bit. So, that makes me happy. I did my best to measure the BTO of the BH 75 grain load. I THINK I did it correctly. If not, I'm happy to try again. (It is hard to tell from the picture, but I am attempting to measure to the ogive and not simply to the end of the case.) 
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"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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@USMC_JA
Thanks for the info. I’d still recommend getting a comparator kit for gaining accuracy. Hornady Comparator Kit |
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Glad some of you are getting to shoot. I’m still trying to get my new “office” in order following a move.
Still waiting on some SS pegboards, shelving and hauling the remaining items in, but it’s a start. Hopefully I’ll be ready to load and shoot by next weekend. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
@USMC_JA Thanks for the info. I’d still recommend getting a comparator kit for gaining accuracy. Hornady Comparator Kit 
Cool piece of gear. Appreciate the tip. I'll pick one up. |
"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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Originally Posted By USMC_JA: In other words, "that measurement you took doesn't tell me shit, but thanks for trying."
Cool piece of gear. Appreciate the tip. I'll pick one up. It’ll help you in the long run. The meplats on most BTHP or polymer tips aren’t uniform, so you’ll see far more variance with them within a lot of bullets than you will typically see with the ogives. |
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
The DD is a 16" carbine? From it, I'd like to see the performance of- Factory ammo: Hornady 75gr Match Handloads: 75/77gr BTHP over 24 - 24.5gr Varget. 50/53gr VMAX over 25 - 25.5gr Varget. The 53g VMAX is slick; might need to jump another 0.020" at 2.23-2.24" OAL if the ogive allows. I also grabbed some of the new FGMM 90gr rounds to try out in the 2 Valkyrie barrels. |
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Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match.
I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets. The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet. 
Edit: the home chambered 6creed didn’t belong here. I’ll post it’s try at a 5x5 later this month. |
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Definitely coveting your reloading space. As my kids have gotten older “my” space has all but disappeared.
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match. I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets. The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet. https://i.imgur.com/Xuj4VW1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/V7k6V9W.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qhUXXLD.jpg |
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Originally Posted By SpeyRod:
This is enough to tempt my to try the 224. Good shooting... Originally Posted By SpeyRod:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match. I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets. The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet. https://i.imgur.com/Xuj4VW1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/V7k6V9W.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qhUXXLD.jpg 
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Originally Posted By 50ttop:
I’ve got a couple .308 uppers I’m going to loan to the cause next weekend. One has a 20” Fulton Armory M110 barrel and the other has a 16” Bergara barrel that I picked up to try for $100. It may be awhile before I get to run them, as I have a medical procedure that may leave me home bound for 4-6weeks. Getting old sucks! |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Thanks bud! I’ve got a bunch of 6.5grendel loads worked up that you’re welcome to try in your Howa mini, as well as brass and projectiles. It may be awhile before I get to run them, as I have a medical procedure that may leave me home bound for 4-6weeks. Getting old sucks! |
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Special thanks to @50ttop. He’s supplied me with two quality uppers to try as well as some ammo to assist with testing. Hopefully I’ll get to try them out soon, as well as a few others. I didn’t even fire my AR’s at the GAHTF moa shoot this past weekend, but the host of the event did get moa or better with the WOA barreled 224Valkyrie and FGMM.
I’ve been slack, but this thread should pick up soon now that the risk of a heat stroke will be going down in the next month or so. |
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I didn’t shoot my gassers, but I let @gahunter95 try out the 224Valkyrie. He managed .80moa without ever shooting it or taking warm up shots.
Based on the groups after the first strings, I think the can loosened up during a cooling cycle, but it was still good shooting. 22” WOA, FGMM 90gr 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
I didn’t shoot my gassers, but I let @gahunter95 try out the 224Valkyrie. He managed .80moa without ever shooting it or taking warm up shots. Based on the groups after the first strings, I think the can loosened up during a cooling cycle, but it was still good shooting. 22” WOA, FGMM 90gr https://i.imgur.com/VVL2cOX.jpg I shot that target in about 5 mins. That rifle is capable of much more! I need to practice more. |
Get involved with your local ranges and HTF events.
Range time >> post count.
Range time >> post count.
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Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Well I guess since you have a large frame, if you want a .260 to test me me know. I owe, I owe... |
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Boredom has set in. I decided to take some measurements of the factory ammo that I’ve been testing, which potentially could be beneficial for reloaders. Listed values are the average BTO from 5 random samples. I don’t measure overall length for my purposes due to significant variation with meplats, but I can get that data if it’s helpful.
223 Hornady 75gr HPBT 1.8345” BTO Hornady Black 75gr HPBT 1.8545” BTO Lot#2 1.8430 BTO Both lots range between 2.251-2.255 COAL Black Hills Remanufactured (blue box) 75gr HPBT 1.8490” BTO Hornady Steel Match 75gr HPBT 1.8705” BTO FGMM 77gr SMK 1.8710” BTO Magtech 77gr SMK 1.8570” BTO ADI 69gr SMK 1.8505” BTO 224 Valkyrie Hornady Black 75gr HPBT 1.6750” BTO Federal AE 75gr TMJ 1.7210” BTO Hornady Match 88gr ELD-M 1.6805” BTO FGMM 90gr SMK 1.7345” BTO Edit: Began loading some 75’s to test and noticed my Hornady Black copies were at 2.271 COAL based on trying to copy the BTO measurements from the box that I previously measured. I grabbed a second box and noticed a significant difference in the BTO measurement, but the overall COAL was very similar. While I measure all of my loads based on BTO, it’s important when working with a new bullet or lot to ensure they will fit in a magazine if that’s their intended purpose. |
Looking forward to testing the .308 uppers that 50ttop provided. One is a Fulton Armory (M110?) and the other is a Bergara. Both barrels feature a 1:10 twist. This is my first time using either of these rails, but at first glance, they are very solid.
 He also graciously supplied me with some FGMM for testing the .308 barrels as well as some BH blue box 223 ammo. 
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In addition to the .308’s, I plan on taking the 6.5 creed and 224 Valkyrie out for some complete testing. Since the RA barrel is a 1:7.5 twist (224Valkyrie), handloads are pretty much required for my intended use. Since I was loading for it, I decided to load some 223 and 6.5 creed rounds to have at the ready for testing.
Rounds are loaded, just need to find the time to test. 224Valkyrie 80 eld-m’s and 95smk’s (White Oak Barrel)  6.5 creedmoor 140 eld 130 Berger OTM AR hybrid H4350 Hornady Brass Fed210 
223/5.56 77smk 73 eld 69smk 77 tmk (sparse)  75gr hpbt 
These will be using 1x fired LC-09. This brass was purchased pre-prepped/sized. One of the downsides to this is that they will vary in the base to shoulder. From my experience, this can cause significant issues with overall precision, especially if mixed among a five shot group. Based on this, the cases were sorted based on 2 thou variance. I expect the shorter cases will not yield the greatest precision, but it will be interesting to test. I typically size my cases for a base to shoulder measurement of 1.452”. |
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Trying to....
Received some of the new Berger 85.5gr hybrids for testing in the 224Valkyries. If I can find a node above 2850fps, these should equal the 80 eld’s (@2980fps) in wind deflection at extended range. Above 2900fps it begins to edge out the 80gr eld’s for wind deflection and longer supersonic range. Based on weight difference and bearing surface, I think 2875-2915fps should be attainable...but, will the precision be there? That’s the big question. I also grabbed some JB bore paste at the recommendation of @bfoosh06 to try and improve on the results of the BCA barrel that I tested previously. Hopefully I can get it to shoot sub moa consistently. 
80gr eld vs 85.5 Hybrid 
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