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AR Precision Testing (Page 6 of 7)
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Link Posted: 5/3/2020 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Fulton Armory M110 .308, 20”

Back out with the 30 cal yesterday. Handloads didn’t do quite as well as I’d hoped, but the 41.8gr load did manage to perform sub-moa.

The bottom right group (41.7) was the first group on the target and was way over gassed. It was recoiling pretty hard. I made an adjustment and continued to shoot clockwise, with the FGMM 168’s being the last group. I did re-tighten the suppressor as I noticed the impacts in the second group of 41.8’s going high, low, high, low, which I’ve seen enough to think the can had loosened some during the heating/cooling cycles. It wasn’t really loose, but I was able to snug it up slightly.

Thanks again for allowing me to test this barrel. I think 41.8gr would work, but it looks to be a tight node at the current seating depth with RL-15.

First group of the day, FGMM 168’s, then adjusted the scope to fire the next 5 groups.


Rifle as shot, Triad rear bag, Vortex PST II 5-25, TBAC 30p-1


168’s, RL-15, Fed 210M and 168 FGMM
Note: Never use posted reloading data. Work up loads in your rifles following safe reloading practices.
Also, the barrel is 20”, not 18” as indicated on the target.
Link Posted: 5/3/2020 9:45:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Rainier Arms, 18” 223 Wylde, 1:8 twist Rock Creek blank

Initial testing of the RA Rock Creek barrel. These rounds were fired by my girlfriend while I was testing the FA .308. Note: I looked through the scope following her shooting and noticed that the scope wasn’t parallax free, which could have opened the groups up slightly.

Rounds tested were Australian Outback ADI 69smk, Black Hills Blue Box Hornady 75gr HPBT (remanufactured), Hornady Steel Match 75 HPBT, and 2 sets of my handloads with the 75gr HPBT’s.

I’ve never had the best luck with the 75’s, but overall, they appear to shoot decent with this barrel. The ADI 69’s were a dumpster fire. These used to be really stellar in numerous rifles, but the latest lots just haven’t performed like they used to. My DD 16” shoots them well, but the last 3 match barrels just haven’t really liked them.

On with the pics...



Link Posted: 5/3/2020 10:12:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Teaser post: LaRue Tactical, 6.5 Creedmoor 22” Ultimate Upper kit

I ordered a 6.5creed UU in March and have been sitting on the unassembled upper for a few weeks. I received the lower a few days ago so I decided to put everything together Friday night. Unfortunately, I didn’t have an extra Keymod bipod adapter, so I had to use some bags up front. I hope to have the Keymod bipod mount later this week so that I can properly test this rifle out. The front bags were hard as hell to keep steady.

I fired 4 rds of my handloads to get on paper (not shown) then shot rounds 5-9 (5shots) into the lower left target with factory Hornady 140eld-m’s. I didn’t want to waste anymore of the ammo when I knew I wasn’t solid, so I stopped with the 140’s at that point. The rifle was trying to roll when shot 3 broke, which went right.

Next up was some handloads that I’d prepped for my Ballistic Advantage 22” 6.5creed. I was going to try 3rds of charges that have worked in the past. I called one bad shot on the top right group at the time of firing, so I loaded one more round of the same charge weight but a slightly different seating depth to get a better idea of where I needed to be on my charge weight with the 130’s.

Not a lot of data on this build, but I look forward to future testing of this rifle. If initial results are indicative of future performance, this rifle should shoot very well.






Link Posted: 5/4/2020 10:44:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/4/2020 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#5]
I’m always a bit surprised at how well FGMM does in 168/175 for a .308. I (did) buy some whenever there was a deal to be had to patch me through those spells when I don’t have time to reload. Bolt guns and the LaRue gas gun eat it up.

Of the 10 or so .223 rifles I’ve loaded for, none of them like Hornady 68 or 75 gr pills so far as I could tell. The only Hornady bullet I’ve had any real luck with other than plain old 55 gr SP’s is 65 gr VMax. All the rifles would print respectable groups with Sierra’s anywhere from 52 to 77 gr regardless of twist.

Interested to see how the LT 6.5 works out once you get some rounds through it. I’ve had real good luck with every LT barrel I’ve put through the paces.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 7:59:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#6]
LaRue Ultimate Upper, 22” 6.5creedmoor

Berger 130 AR Hybrids
Hornady 140 Eld-m’s
H4350, Hornady Brass, Fed. 210m

The first group of the day with the 140 eld-m’s almost made me stop load development and pack my bags (lower right). The first 4 just made a nice large hole, with the 5th round opening it up slightly. The next group was the same charge, but with a different seating depth (upper right). The middle group was going well (.2gr increase), but the last round ruined it. Not sure if it was me or perhaps the load/brass, but I don’t think it was the rifle. Upper left was .2gr lower than my typical 6.5creed gas load, and was outside of the node.

Still need to tweak the Berger 130 load, but it’s off to a good start.

6 groups shot, with all of them being different, and it still averaged .794moa over 30rds fired, with 2 WTF shots that opened up the groups substantially.



Link Posted: 6/11/2020 1:04:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Not from an AR, but I found these results to be interesting, since it’s an ammo brand that I and many others have used and recommended in their AR’s. I chambered a 223 barrel for my American Rifle Company Nucleus over the weekend and decided to run out and do a quick function check. I was curious how inexpensive match ammo could do in a trainer/practice rifle, so I took a box of ADI 69gr smk for the test.

The first group fired impacted on the left and then I made a scope adjustment and shot the second group. The results were more than satisfactory for my needs as practice ammo, even with the impacts that were outside of the core groups. While it’s not directly translatable to AR’s, this limited sample could indicate that this ammo lot is capable of good groups with a chamber/barrel that it likes. That caveat was thrown in because I have had great groups with ADI in the past, but this lot hasn’t shown the same precision as some of the previous lots I’ve used, except with my Daniel Defense 16” barrel. It seems to really like this ammo. I’ll clean the barrel and then test these again in the bolt gun to see if the groups hold up or perhaps get a bit better after I have more than 10rds down the bore.


Australian Outback, 69smk Lot#2033
Bartlein 1:8, 26” Marksman contour
Bare muzzle


Link Posted: 6/11/2020 1:26:33 AM EDT
[#8]
That is interesting.

Over the last couple years I have been experimenting with a practice load, something that would shoot sub MOA without a lot of effort.  This was the result of mixed headstamp brass, sized and trimmed to 1.750, then run through my Dillon 1050 using TAC powder and 69 Nosler CC.  Rifle is a trued Remington 700 with an 18" 1:8 Bartlein.

Attachment Attached File


Quite a bit of vertical dispersion but it includes the cold bore shot and was well under an inch at 100.  I probably should have shot more groups but was having too much fun shooting steel out to 500 yards, with a load that took very little time to make.
Link Posted: 6/17/2020 12:20:24 AM EDT
[#9]
Australian Outback 69smk update:

It isn’t much of a surprise if you’ve shot the ADI 69smk’s before, but this ammo shoots good when matched up to a rifle it likes, even in a driving rain. On several of the groups, there would be a core cluster that was really impressive, but then I’d get some outliers. Since I felt I had good fundamentals today, I fired the final group without the suppressor to see if the harmonics were the issue, as well as to get data on the POI shift. While the final group was one of the better groups of the day, it equaled the first suppressed group, so it may just be part of the natural variance of factory ammo and not negatively impacted harmonics.

Shot as normal, Harris bipod w/ small rear bag.

Link Posted: 6/17/2020 1:03:07 AM EDT
[#10]
X-Caliber 6.5 Grendel, 18” Nitrided 1:8
Vortex PST II 3-15
Hornady Black 123 eld-m

Just the initial teaser; the rain started coming down too heavy to continue additional testing. I’ll update this post once I get back out to run 20-25 through it alongside the LaRue UU 6.5grendel.


Link Posted: 6/17/2020 7:36:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Australian Outback 69smk update:

It isn’t much of a surprise if you’ve shot the ADI 69smk’s before, but this ammo shoots good when matched up to a rifle it likes, even in a driving rain. On several of the groups, there would be a core cluster that was really impressive, but then I’d get some outliers. Since I felt I had good fundamentals today, I fired the final group without the suppressor to see if the harmonics were the issue, as well as to get data on the POI shift. While the final group was one of the better groups of the day, it equaled the first suppressed group, so it may just be part of the natural variance of factory ammo and not negatively impacted harmonics.

Shot as normal, Harris bipod w/ small rear bag.

https://i.imgur.com/wbgcGHP.jpg
View Quote


Interesting change suppressed.  Just one suppressed group?
Link Posted: 6/17/2020 7:37:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
X-Caliber 6.5 Grendel, 18” Nitrided 1:8
Vortex PST II 3-15
Hornady Black 123 eld-m

Just the initial teaser; the rain started coming down too heavy to continue additional testing. I’ll update this post once I get back out to run 20-25 through it alongside the LaRue UU 6.5grendel.

https://i.imgur.com/tD9HcBe.jpg
View Quote


If you get the flyer figured out for the grendels let me know
Link Posted: 6/17/2020 1:27:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sea2summit:


Interesting change suppressed.  Just one suppressed group?
View Quote


3 suppressed, 1 without.

Oddly enough, it came out dead on at a .3mil shift. I believe my lighter cans typically induces right at .1-.2mil with that barrel contour. I don’t recall running my 16oz (heaviest I have) on that contour, but it might be interesting to check one day. It typically just serves time on the magnums, which don’t get out that often.
Link Posted: 6/21/2020 6:39:31 PM EDT
[#14]
LaRue UU, 22” 6.5 Creedmoor
Vortex PST II 5-25
Thunderbeast 30p-1
H4350
Hornady Brass
140 eld’s

No clue what happened on group 4. I felt that all of the shots had a good break. I did notice a bit a play in the receivers following the group, but no adjustments were made prior to group 5. I’ll work to shim the receivers to take the play out of them and may run a borescope down the barrel, for curiosities sake.





Link Posted: 6/21/2020 7:04:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sea2summit:


Interesting change suppressed.  Just one suppressed group?
View Quote


The potential future Mrs. SJL seems to think it does “good enough” suppressed and pointed out that I just need to keep practicing.

ADI 69 SMK’s, lot 2033

ARC Nucleus, 26” Bartlein. I feel this ammo has been proofed enough. Need to try it in a few different AR’s to see which ones will do well with it.



Link Posted: 6/21/2020 11:17:03 PM EDT
[#16]
LaRue UU 18” 6.5Grendel
Vortex PST II 5-25
Hornady Black 123 ELD-M’s


First rounds out of this barrel. I switched lots between groups 1-2 and groups 3-4. I’m not sure if the switching of the lots was the direct cause of the better grouping, or if it was merely due to getting a few rounds on this barrel.

Additional factory testing and some handloads with 123smk’s and 123 eld’s will be coming soon.


Link Posted: 6/22/2020 1:41:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:


The potential future Mrs. SJL seems to think it does “good enough” suppressed and pointed out that I just need to keep practicing.

ADI 69 SMK’s, lot 2033

ARC Nucleus, 26” Bartlein. I feel this ammo has been proofed enough. Need to try it in a few different AR’s to see which ones will do well with it.

https://i.imgur.com/dnYYJfm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DrYvArn.jpg
View Quote


shesrightyouknow.gif
Link Posted: 6/25/2020 9:31:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 6/25/2020 10:16:06 PM EDT
[#19]
@bfoosh06

Thanks for the kind words. I’ve still got The various types of 223/5.56 ammo to get on paper that you so graciously provided. Once I got setup with a range to shoot at frequently, I had become a bit enamored in the 224Valkyrie.

I’ve been cleaning a few of the 223’s, so they’ll be back out soon. And while it wasn’t on your barrels of interest, I doubt we’ll see much more from the BCA barrel. I ran the borescope down it and it looked rough!! I know there’s a place for barrels in that price range, but the difference between it and a barrel that is 150-200$ is night and day different. Severe railroad tracks from the rifling process and pits and blemishes abound. I’m actually surprised it shot as well as it did for a few groups just based on how badly it copper fouled with limited rounds.
Link Posted: 6/25/2020 10:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#20]
Link Posted: 6/27/2020 8:32:56 PM EDT
[#21]
LaRue UU 18” 6.5 Grendel

Went back out with the grendel, but only had the lot used for groups 1-2 from the previous post. There was less vertical than experienced on the initial outing, until group #3. There was a storm coming in fast so I fired groups 2-3 without letting the barrel cool, and she started giving me fliers on the 3rd group. I loaded 10rds in the mag and accidentally fired 6 shots for group #2. Due to my inability to count, shot 4 and 5 for group 3 were the last round in the mag since I had to single feed round 5 to complete the group. I’ll begin load workup for this barrel this week. Hopefully I’ll get better/more consistent results with handloads.

Other group was from the bolt gun. I had 7 rds left that I’d loaded for my other 223 bolt gun and decided to see how they shot in this barrel and didn’t have time to hang another target with the storm rolling in. Aside from potentially canting the rifle a bit for the first shot, I think I may have lucked into a load that works for both rifles if the ES and Std. Dev. are tight.

Link Posted: 6/28/2020 12:31:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:

As for the BCA barrel... sounds like it would be a perfect candidate  for the  Tubbs Final Finish and or TMS.

View Quote


Not sure if it’s worth the time and effort. But if it could make this barrel perform, that’d be a heck of an endorsement for the product.







Link Posted: 7/5/2020 11:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#23]
LaRue UU 18” 6.5grendel (factory assembled)

Initial testing of handloads 7/3/20: 123smk’s and 123eld-m’s. The 123 ELD’s were pulls that I’d loaded for the previous Ballistic advantage barrel. Due to the shoulder bump used for sizing, the loads would not chamber in the LaRue (BA had more headspace).

The bottom left 123smk and upper right 123eld loads were the best performing in the BA barrel, and they look to be a good starting point for this barrel as well. As for shot #4 for the eld’s, I’m not sure if the tip was deformed or if other factors were at play. All shots broke clean.




Follow up testing of the go to 123SMK load 7/4/20. Unfortunately, the results weren’t as promising as the initial outing. Once the barrel was warmed up, it shot very well, but if it got beyond a certain point (I’m assuming here), it started to exhibit a shift. The second group was great, and the start of the 3rd group was also good, but shot 4 and 5 started to wander. I was out of the confirmatory handloads at this point, but decided to try some of the factory Hornady Black 123’s from the lot that previously shot well once the barrel cooled briefly. Again, shots 1-3 did well, but 4 + 5 ventured outside of the main group.



Once back at the house, I decided to take a look over the barrel and gas block and noticed that the gas block is making contact with the step down of the barrel. The plan moving forward is to adjust the gas block and give slight separation of the step down and gas block at the gas block journal to mitigate any harmonic changes that may be caused from contact as things heat up. Some heat will be necessary, as the 3 set screws on the gas block must be secured using red loctite as they aren’t budging.


Link Posted: 7/6/2020 12:15:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#24]
Rainier Arms 18” Rock Creek

After seeing the shift with the 6.5grendel yesterday, I decided to run out with the 18” Rainier Arms Rock Creek barrel, with the riser/scope from the grendel, to eliminate loose rings while I diagnose the 6.5g’s issue. Based on the results, I don’t think it’s scope related at all. I was blown away by how this barrel performed. It’s relatively new, with only 25ish rounds through it by my girlfriend back in May. While waiting for the range to go cold to hang targets, I noticed there was a blank target on a stand with a single bullet hole. Since I’d just swapped scopes, I figured I’d try and get it on paper before I hung my target. She didn’t have great luck with the ADI’s in the past, but something must have changed after I cleaned it following the inaugural outing! This barrel is a laser with that load. I adjusted the scope vertically since I only had a single POA and fired a second group, but had a feed issue with the first round, so only 4 shots were fired in the second group. To my amazement, the second group was great as well. I adjusted once more to get the vertical POI in alignment with the POA. Third group fired, 3rd great outcome.







I hung a target and adjusted the horizontal to align POI with POA and began testing 5 different handloads. Although the handloads didn’t match the factory results, I was still pleased with the outcome. My go to load for 77smk’s performed well (.499moa) and the 73 eld’s should work too, but may require some changes to seating depth and a different magazine for efficient feeding.

Note: only 4 rds were available for the middle target.




Very happy with this barrel. 8 groups fired, 8 groups sub moa, with only 2 over 3/4moa.

Link Posted: 7/16/2020 10:37:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Rainier Arms 18” Intermediate gas, Rock Creek barrel

Australian Outback (ADI) 69gr, lot #2024

Targets #1 and #2 were an older lot of the ADI 69smk. Regrettably, I am out of the previous lot unless I stumble across a few boxes that I’ve stashed away. I thought that I had a few boxes of it, but everything that I found today was from a different lot (#2024). Based on the results, this ammo and barrel combination still performs, it’s just not quite as good as the previous outing.

Hand-loads- Reloader 15, 69smk, ADI and LC-07 brass.
All brass used for handloads was 1x fired. All charges used were above 24.3grs and none exceeded 25.2gr. These loads are safe in my rifle but may not work for yours. Always use safe reloading practices and work up a load for your particular barrel.

Targets #3 and #6 vary by .2gr, with the node likely being centered within the middle of this charge range. Targets 4 and 5 were the highest charges tested, and they were exiting out of the node. Target #5 is a great example of what I look for when a load is beginning to exit out of a node, just prior to a “scatter node”.




Proof testing of the factory ammo. No suppressor was used as I just wanted to get 5rds on paper quickly. The POI was previously .3mil higher without the suppressor. The POI was slightly higher today, between .3 and .4mil, but some of that minor variation could be due to environmental changes between today and the previous outing and not specifically due to changes in the lots.




Link Posted: 11/29/2020 4:57:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#26]
Resurrection post.

Copied from the reloading section. The topic came up about Varget and Reloader 15 for 69smk’s.

Started off shooting the Varget load that I run in my bolt guns with the black mag, but experienced double grouping with it. Each group has 2 and 3 shots in clusters. I found a different mag in my range bag and shot the RL-15 groups.

My take is both RL-15 and varget are suitable for the 69smk’s and they can utilize almost the same charge weight (which a lot of ppl have known).

18” Rainier Rock Creek, 223wylde Intermediate gas

Average was .70moa for all 5 groups.






Confirmatory groups in a different 18” barrel
18” Rainier Match, 223wylde RLGS







And I picked up some supplies to allow for more testing down the road.


Link Posted: 12/1/2020 5:21:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Good to see you and the future Mrs Large having so much fun together.  
I remember when you just started dating.
Is there a wedding date yet?
Link Posted: 12/1/2020 6:39:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TXBO:
Good to see you and the future Mrs Large having so much fun together.  
I remember when you just started dating.
Is there a wedding date yet?
View Quote


Thanks for the kind words.

3+ years with no real drama is a success in my book. Hate to mess that up with how 2020’s been. We may re-evaluate it next year, but I feel like 2021 is waiting in the dark ready to shout “hold my beer”.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 12:52:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:


Thanks for the kind words.

3+ years with no real drama is a success in my book. Hate to mess that up with how 2020’s been. We may re-evaluate it next year, but I feel like 2021 is waiting in the dark ready to shout “hold my beer”.
View Quote


LOL.  Merry Christmas to you both.  Cheers.
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 9:13:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Excellent thread!  Just burned all the way through it.  Thanks for all the work you’ve put in!
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#31]
I read through this whole thread at work, where I have limited internet access and then had to pull it back up after I got home to see the pictures. Great thread and impressive shooting. I wish I was equipped to test out countless loads and tons of barrels. Maybe some day
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 11:27:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks for the feedback. I need to do some housekeeping to edit all of the info by barrel, but I’ve been pretty busy as of late. I presented plans to my club to add a precision rifle area on our 500yd range, so I’ve been working on that and generating safety SOP’s during my free time (and my .22 trainer...they are addictive!)

Once I get things cleaned up I hope to add to the thread with some things I’ve observed with reloading to help with practical precision (sizing, cleaning/case prep) and my method of load development and “reading a target” for finding a node. It’s very similar to methods that are widely known, but for years I developed loads this way without having a chronograph. Most of the time when the load was later chronographed, the std. dev. was sub 10fps, and typically closer to 5fps. While I’m not much for videos, I may try to capture that as a video series.







If anyone has a barrel that they would like evaluated, please shoot me a PM and maybe we can get something worked out.


Link Posted: 1/7/2021 12:03:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#33]
LaRue 6.5creedmoor 22” UU
LaRue MBT 2S trigger
Vortex AMG 6-24x50
TBAC 30p-1 suppressor
Hornady American Gunner 140 BTHP
52F, light wind

Warm up group with my 140eld handloads since I changed scopes on this rifle. Luckily the POI was only high, so I was able to drop it down to shoot the AG ammo. Based on the adjustment, the POI should be the same or within .1-.2mil of my handloads at 100yds, which isn’t necessarily relevant, but I found it to be interesting.




Edit: I left the target at the range yesterday, so I didn’t have the info to discuss the last 2 groups. Fortunately I was able to swing by and get some range time in today, and grab the target.

The Hornady American Gunner 140’s performed wonderful in this rifle. The recoil impulse was slightly stronger than my handloads, but it was only moderately over gassed. The top two groups were fired without the stock fully adjusted to the rear, so I was fighting to get a great sight picture with edge to edge clarity. That’s the risk you take when swapping a scope quickly and not taking the proper amount of time for setup. Despite not setting up the stock/optics optimally to begin shooting, the precision of this system proved more than adequate for what I need out of a precision gas gun. Not only were the groups under 3/4moa for all but one group, but the POI remained consistent among each group. The middle group was fired after testing a group of my 140 eld handloads (bottom right). I’m not sure if that caused the group to open up or if it was just the ammo. It was just odd to see the first round go high and then the next 4 group as expected. And although there was only 2 groups of my 140eld handloads fired, I was happy to see that they both came in under .5 moa during this outing.




1/7/21 Update

Since I was at the range, I decided to try the FGMM 130’s (left) and my 142smk handloads. I experienced a bipod dip as shot 3 broke with the FGMM 130’s, so I fired an extra 2 rds to get a better idea of how that ammo “could” perform.

Tip: when using a Harris BRMS bipod, the lowest setting may not be the most stable. When using the bipod at the first notch, you eliminate the bipod legs being able to dip/compress that minor amount from the internal spring.

Link Posted: 1/7/2021 10:01:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Very nice shooting.

I’m starting to wonder about the powder/loads of the white box.  Did my first stuff for the .260 and even at .2 grain over max load I had no pressure signs or swipes on the brass (130 ELDM) but the white box 130’s have enough swipe mark I had to take a dremel to them to have them fit the gauge and have pressure signs at the primer.  Faster burning powder in the factory load maybe? Anyway, haven’t been able to finish load development yet.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 12:32:16 AM EDT
[#35]
1/7/21

Rainier Arms 16” match

ADI 69gr
Hornady 75gr bthp handloads
Sierra 69smk handloads
Sierra 77smk handload

This barrel showed some promise with the ADI 69gr ammo, but there always seemed to be a flier or two with each group. I think I have an idea of what caused this, but I’ll need to take some measurements before posting my wild speculation. My go to 69gr handloads did not perform as well as I had hoped, and the 75gr handloads were a dumpster fire. Fortunately the 77smk test load has given me a decent area to explore with this barrel.



Link Posted: 1/9/2021 2:26:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#36]
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 7:15:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#37]
Ballistic Advantage 6.5creed
22”, Rifle length gas

I had a chance to take out the freshly cleaned BA 6.5creed earlier today. The ammo tested was Hornady 140eld factory ammo, Hornady 140 American Gunner and Federal GMM 130’s. I also had some of my 130gr Berger handloads, but didn’t get a chance to test them fully. The reason for that was the FGMM load was very hot and I was getting pierced primers. I’ll break it down and clean prior to additional testing.

Order of groups and ammo:

Target #9- Includes CCB, Hornady AG 140’s
Target #8- Hornady AG 140’s
Target #6- Hornady 140 eldm
Target #5- Handloaded Berger 130 AR Hybrid (only 3rds)
Target #4- FGMM 130
Target #7- FGMM 130




Link Posted: 1/15/2021 2:04:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 12:22:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Sorry to hear about the Federal ammo.... I had a second batch of 120gr Fed. OTM  pierce primers ... 6 of the 10 I fired, before noticing the primers. ( first batch was great )
View Quote


I’ve known it was warm, but I haven’t experienced this before. 2 of the 10 cases were ok, which could have been due to the charge. That said, I had left the ammo in the car, so it was subjected to sustained 40F temps for several hours. Perhaps the cartridges experienced the “beer can” effect, going from a cold state to warm (chamber), and had a minor amount of condensation that resulted in increased pressure.
Link Posted: 1/30/2021 11:22:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Wasn’t expecting the crazy wind today, but figured I’d put a few rounds down range since I made the drive. The wind knocked over the target stand on a few occasions when really strong North/South gusts hit. These results should be improved upon with better conditions.

16” Rainier Arms Match
Hornady Steel Match 75gr
Black Hills Blue Box remanufactured 75gr
RL-15 Hornady 75gr HPBT handloads.




18” Rainier Arms Match-
The wind wasn’t as bad while testing this barrel, with a fairly constant left/right wind, but there were some strong gusts that likely resulted in some opening of the groups.

ADI 69gr
69gr/ Varget Handloads (Top left/ Top Right)
77smk 8208 handload (bottom left)- 6rds fired since I had an extra round and the wind wasn’t gusting.
Fouling group was for the 16” barrel and was not measured since I had just cleaned the barrel.
Link Posted: 1/31/2021 5:06:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
@USMC_JA

Thanks for the info. I’d still recommend getting a comparator kit for gaining accuracy.

Hornady Comparator Kit
View Quote


X2. I was chasing coal on some loaders and this was recommended to me. I got the kit and discovered most on my loads were actually +-.002 or less. Saved me a huge amount of time. Now, depending on the purpose of the load I just seat and sort by ogive length. Anything outside my tolerance goes into the fouling group. The rest go into my precision group.
Link Posted: 2/6/2021 7:26:22 PM EDT
[#42]
This thread was always intended to be informative and to help others. So with that, hopefully someone will learn from my error. I cleaned the Ballistic Advantage 6.5creed barrel following the FGMM testing where I was piercing primers and decided to go back out to the range to fire the remaining FGMM rounds and to test the impact of hydraulic dented cases (over lubed during sizing) and loose necks on their impact to precision.

The first group was the dented case group, which included the Cleaned Cold Bore (CCB) shot. I don’t recall that there was any significant feel to neck tension with any of the rounds that were in this group. Much to my surprise, the rounds shot very well.

The next group was the 4 remaining FGMM 130’s. They shot fine and none had a pierced primer. This was better results than previously, but the cases did have strong ejector marks.

The final group was the rounds that I loaded and deemed as having loose neck tension. I’m not using a gauge, but it’s based solely on feel when sizing. Those of you who have loaded quite a bit probably know exactly what I’m describing. These rounds had a similar POI, but the group wasn’t what I would have expected from consistent neck tension. It also appears that 3 of the rounds had a similar neck tension than the remaining 2, but I didn’t note that in my reloading book, so it’s pure speculation.

Here’s where the problem begins. After the last group, I started policing more of my brass. I had sat up my rifle case beside of me when shooting the FGMM to ensure it was easily retrievable, but did not do that with my handloads. When I looked at the handloads, which never have caused pierced primers, I noticed that several had been pierced. When taking the gun apart when I returned home, I removed the bolt from the carrier (I did not perform this step after the FGMM rounds initially, which was a mistake). When taking it apart, I noticed 3 things. 1) the retainer pin was incredibly difficult to remove. 2) Small portions of the primer fell out from the inside of the bolt and 3) The firing pin had suffered deformation.

TLDR: If you pierce a primer, go ahead and disassemble the bolt and clean it thoroughly, as it can have some bad affects on the firing pin/retainer pin.


If anyone stumbles across a DPMS patterned firing pin and retaining pin, please feel free to send me an IM







Hydraulic dents


Link Posted: 2/7/2021 11:00:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
This thread was always intended to be informative and to help others. So with that, hopefully someone will learn from my error. I cleaned the Ballistic Advantage 6.5creed barrel following the FGMM testing where I was piercing primers and decided to go back out to the range to fire the remaining FGMM rounds and to test the impact of hydraulic dented cases (over lubed during sizing) and loose necks on their impact to precision.

The first group was the dented case group, which included the Cleaned Cold Bore (CCB) shot. I don’t recall that there was any significant feel to neck tension with any of the rounds that were in this group. Much to my surprise, the rounds shot very well.

The next group was the 4 remaining FGMM 130’s. They shot fine and none had a pierced primer. This was better results than previously, but the cases did have strong ejector marks.

The final group was the rounds that I loaded and deemed as having loose neck tension. I’m not using a gauge, but it’s based solely on feel when sizing. Those of you who have loaded quite a bit probably know exactly what I’m describing. These rounds had a similar POI, but the group wasn’t what I would have expected from consistent neck tension. It also appears that 3 of the rounds had a similar neck tension than the remaining 2, but I didn’t note that in my reloading book, so it’s pure speculation.

Here’s where the problem begins. After the last group, I started policing more of my brass. I had sat up my rifle case beside of me when shooting the FGMM to ensure it was easily retrievable, but did not do that with my handloads. When I looked at the handloads, which never have caused pierced primers, I noticed that several had been pierced. When taking the gun apart when I returned home, I removed the bolt from the carrier (I did not perform this step after the FGMM rounds initially, which was a mistake). When taking it apart, I noticed 3 things. 1) the retainer pin was incredibly difficult to remove. 2) Small portions of the primer fell out from the inside of the bolt and 3) The firing pin had suffered deformation.

TLDR: If you pierce a primer, go ahead and disassemble the bolt and clean it thoroughly, as it can have some bad affects on the firing pin/retainer pin.


If anyone stumbles across a DPMS patterned firing pin and retaining pin, please feel free to send me an IM

https://i.imgur.com/f6wXZf5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sGkVJJH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fTxlP2p.jpg


Hydraulic dents
https://i.imgur.com/qfrxEhH.jpg

View Quote


Had some minor hydronic dents due to over lubing my last batch of Hornady brass. I honestly can’t say my groups suffered.

I processed my new Lapua brass and used a neck iron on them. Bullet tension is very noticeably lighter than the other brass. I think I may need to buy a collet sizing die.
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 9:02:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Ummmm something about 6C
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 11:07:06 AM EDT
[#45]
I was pretty impressed by the results of the Geco 5.56 55gr fmj in the 16” RA Match barrel. Being as this was my first time shooting this ammo, I’m not sure if this is typical or if it usually performs better. I do know this barrel has a longer freebore than some of my other match barrels.




Years ago, when this upper was first assembled, it shot the 75gr Hornady HPBT very will during initial testing. Unfortunately, recent testing did not produce the same results. With multiple moves and poor note taking when I was younger, I didn’t have a great starting point for this barrel. Thinking that the jump was the issue, I decided to evaluate seating the bullets closer to the lands to see if there was improvement.

Note: There is a typo on the 4th target. The BTO was 1.886 and required single loading due to COAL exceeding mag length. All other rounds fit in the ASC magazine, but all would not fit in a Pmag/Lancer.



Confirmatory testing will be performed to see if the 1.883 BTO /-.002 is a better COAL for this rifle/bullet combo.
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 11:18:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Ummmm something about 6C
View Quote


Nothing but good things!

Link Posted: 2/18/2021 8:48:12 AM EDT
[#47]
I have some easy questions...

*What is your favorite barrel?  
*What is your favorite cheap barrel?
*What is your favorite barrel and factory ammo combination?
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 9:54:02 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
I was pretty impressed by the results of the Geco 5.56 55gr fmj in the 16” RA Match barrel. Being as this was my first time shooting this ammo, I’m not sure if this is typical or if it usually performs better. I do know this barrel has a longer freebore than some of my other match barrels.

https://i.imgur.com/HZmurqS.jpg


Years ago, when this upper was first assembled, it shot the 75gr Hornady HPBT very will during initial testing. Unfortunately, recent testing did not produce the same results. With multiple moves and poor note taking when I was younger, I didn’t have a great starting point for this barrel. Thinking that the jump was the issue, I decided to evaluate seating the bullets closer to the lands to see if there was improvement.

Note: There is a typo on the 4th target. The BTO was 1.886 and required single loading due to COAL exceeding mag length. All other rounds fit in the ASC magazine, but all would not fit in a Pmag/Lancer.

https://i.imgur.com/n4lCUr6.jpg

Confirmatory testing will be performed to see if the 1.883 BTO /-.002 is a better COAL for this rifle/bullet combo.
View Quote



Geco 223 and 5.56 have been above average in accuracy from several of my barrels including : Ranier Ultramatch 18" (Shilen blank), Rock Creek barrel via Denny's Guns Operator barrel 16", LWRCI 16", and a LaRue Stealth (old barrel from 6+ years ago) 16".  My boxes are from several years ago, but I assume they're still producing a good product.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 11:06:30 AM EDT
[#49]
While Geco is still good stuff, I have found recent lots nowhere near as accurate as from 6-7 years ago.

I used to be able to get consistent MOA or better 10 shot groups with it which was amazing for 55gr FMJ. Now its more like 1.5 MOA which is still well above average.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 12:42:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jb2c:
I have some easy questions...

*What is your favorite barrel?  
*What is your favorite cheap barrel?
*What is your favorite barrel and factory ammo combination?
View Quote


Obviously it’s a bit of a tough question and may change in the future.

Favorite barrel currently would probably be my Rock Creek 223 wylde from Rainier Arms. It’s produced some ridiculously great groups. It has also performed great at distance. As for barrels in general, I’m a big fan of Bartlein and just recently picked up a few blanks from them for bolt gun builds. All of my current match rifles have Bartlein barrels. I’d really like to get a Bartlein/Krieger from WOA, Craddock or CLE to test. I believe any of those would perform exceptional.

For the large frame, my Ballistic Advantage has been great for accuracy, but the RLGS for a 6.5creedmoor impacts reliability for some hotter rounds. My LaRue UU 6.5creed has been super reliable and almost as precise with the limited rounds I have with it.

Cheap barrel: Hands down, the Rainier Match is a fantastic “inexpensive” option. These are on sale (pre Corona) for 159-189$. The bore has been free of major imperfections/voids and the chamber was cut satisfactory in all that I’ve borescoped. It would be nice to test a PSA and BA barrel, but recent supply/demand has prevented me from getting one.

Favorite barrel/ammo combination:
Small frame: RA Rock Creek w/ ADI 69gr

Large frame: Both the BA and LT 6.5 creedmoor have shot the Hornady 140 eld factory load very well.

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AR Precision Testing (Page 6 of 7)
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