AR Precision Testing (Page 7 of 8)
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Originally Posted By jb2c: I have some easy questions... *What is your favorite barrel? *What is your favorite cheap barrel? *What is your favorite barrel and factory ammo combination? Factory ammo
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Cincinnatus
“ Cats arent tactical, or very aggressive units.” Mettee
“ Cats arent tactical, or very aggressive units.” Mettee
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I am on the learning curve when it comes to loading and shooting precision rounds. My lesson learned this week was courtesy of neck tension. I have dialed in my rifles favorite bto for this bullet but was experiencing fliers. I was suspicious of the neck tension because I could feel how loose it was when seating bullets. I changed my procedures and things have improved. My sd went down to 8.05 and the fliers have been eliminated. Before: Attached File After: (group 1 includes a clean cold bore shot low left. The high right shot on group 3 was called, all me) Attached File Then I took it out to 600. Attached File On my best day I am probably a half inch shooter so I am pretty happy with this. |
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Whatever happened with the Larue Stealth .556 barrel? And thanks for an entertaining and informative thread. |
Ellen; Clark, I think it'd be best if everyone went home... before things get worse.
Clark; WORSE? How could things get any worse? Take a look around here, Ellen. We're at the threshold of hell.
Clark; WORSE? How could things get any worse? Take a look around here, Ellen. We're at the threshold of hell.
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Originally Posted By texashark: Whatever happened with the Larue Stealth .556 barrel? And thanks for an entertaining and informative thread. @texashark It was sold, as was the LT 6.5grendel barrel. I’d be happy to test them further but I don’t have anymore Lt’s besides the 6.5creed. Maybe I can summon the GAHTF to loan out a few uppers in the near future as I’m pretty sure there are some members with varying stealth barrel configurations. I do plan on trying to get some time with the Rock River and Rainier Ultramatch (barrel #2) this week if time permits. Trying to spin up a 22GT and another 6creed barrel for my competition rifles. Then I’ll be pretty busy till mid/late April with my match schedule, which is why I’m hopeful I’ll get some range time this week. |
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Compiled results have been added to page 1. The table isn’t complete, but it’s a start and should have been drafted months ago. The table includes the results, which page of the thread the test data can be found on as well as any comments that were noted. I’ll work to have a separate table sorted by ammo/type correlating to the best group averages and the best averages overall. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Compiled results have been added to page 1. The table isn’t complete, but it’s a start and should have been drafted months ago. The table includes the results, which page of the thread the test data can be found on as well as any comments that were noted. I’ll work to have a separate table sorted by ammo/type correlating to the best group averages and the best averages overall. On the notes for the Krieger, you should point out the barrel was pulled because it was shot out. Also the previous owner accidentally shot steel tumbling pins down the barrel (confirmed with borescope) because he’s a retard. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
I’ve been focusing mostly on precision rimfire as of late, but when I saw that ADI ammo was available again, I decided to grab some to give it a try. https://i.imgur.com/lHYC9Dl.jpg Testing was initially done with my 223 bolt gun, just to get a baseline. This ammo typically averages in the 0.4-0.5moa range. This new lot, branded solely as ADI vs the previous Australian Outback, had moments of greatness followed by me scratching my head. I was almost convinced that the groups opening up was due to mirage, but I experienced similar fliers when testing with my AR’s without suppressors. Bolt Gun https://i.imgur.com/iwXIZfs.jpg AR Testing- 18” Rainier Arms Rock Creek / 18” Rainier Arms Match The New ADI 69smk experienced the same fliers that I noticed with my bolt gun, but they were much more pronounced. For the 18” Rock Creek testing, the groups started to tighten up after the initial group (Top Left). I’m not sure if this was due to fouling the barrel or just some really extreme variation in the ammo. A single group of the old AO ADI 69smk was fired from the 18” RA match. While extremely limited in the sample size, this was approximately 0.2moa better than what the new ADI ammo produced in my AR’s. https://i.imgur.com/6KdmL4Y.jpg After testing the New ADI in the RA rock creek, I grabbed some of my handloads to test/confirm since it’s warmer now than when I last loaded for that barrel. The handloads shot in the .49moa and .81moa range and were essentially absent of unexplained fliers. The first round of the 24.8gr charge was slightly high and the 24.9gr target being on the upper end leading out of the precision node. Pardon the cluttered target. https://i.imgur.com/MfjhrvL.jpg |
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."-Abba Eban
"I like it both ways, but still mainly mouth it" -gonzo_beyondo
"I like it both ways, but still mainly mouth it" -gonzo_beyondo
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Originally Posted By sigman68: Looking good How did the rifle function? Very smooth and soft shooting even while adjusting the gas block (group 3). When I went to the 300yd range, I fired my 5 shots in well under 30seconds without using a brake or suppressor. It was very easy to keep it on or close to the target between shots. I did experience high “fliers” on the last round for groups 1/2, but I think that may be magazine related. I switched to a new mag for the last groups. I’ve also got a few anti tilt buffer tubes to try out as well. I’m curious if that will help with fliers with some mags/configurations. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Confirmatory testing with the 55blitzkings Rainier Arms 18” Rock Creek IMR 8208xbr ADI brass Cci 400 Vortex Venom 5-25 I chose the median charge between the previous best groups since they grouped decent and had no significant shift in POI. The 8rd group was intended to be 10, but there was a feeding issue with one of my magazines which dinged up two cases to the point I wasn’t willing to fire them. Avg. group size for all 3 groups, 18rds: .58moa. https://i.imgur.com/QnA6akx.jpg Is that the .223rem or the .224 Valerie? I lost track. |
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034: How’s the Mega MML build working out? I had the same Craddock Bartlien barrel that had wandering zero issues until I figured out the MML needs to be torqued much higher than normal. The barrel nut had backed out when using 40-50 ft/lb. Needed to go to 80. I haven’t shot it for groups lately. I did take it out last weekend on Sat/Sun to shoot at 300yds to generate 6arc brass. I don’t recall a single shot dropping from the 5” plate on Sat. with my known dope. We went back on Sunday and my girlfriend used the same dope and cleaned the KYL rack with it back to back (2” is the smallest plate). Based on that, I think it’s holding true, I just hope it groups decent the next time I take it out. But….I may pull the rail just to check that the barrel nut still meets the German spec. |
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Any new testing? I have a 18in 1-7.7 Bartlien in order with CLE I’m waiting on. I found a older 16 Rainer Arms Select I forgot I had that is the above barrels place holder for now. I shot a few quick 3 rd groups after I zeroed the scope and both were pretty decent. .93 and I think like a .87 I didn’t save anything. Ammo was some magtech 77g I loaded up some .77 with 24.5 CFE and will see how it does. I can’t believe I forgot I had the barrel I thought I sold it. |
Never begins it, never, but once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage.
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Bump to keep from the archives: The end of 2022 and 2023 was super busy…. If you’re ever considering being on the board for your local gun club and have a job and family, seriously consider how much you enjoy shooting, as your limited time at the range may be filled with more Q/A than shooting! A few new barrels rifles to be tested soon; hopefully with some videos as well. Builds/barrels on deck: PSA M110 (.308) PSA Jakl (223/5.56) Larue 20” 7.62 Proof 24” 6creedmoor Potential test items: X-caliber 6GT Craddock Precision 22ARC (one or two 22ARC’s will likely be tested as I’m very interested in this cartridge. Still evaluating offerings). |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Bump to keep from the archives: The end of 2022 and 2023 was super busy…. If you’re ever considering being on the board for your local gun club and have a job and family, seriously consider how much you enjoy shooting, as your limited time at the range may be filled with more Q/A than shooting! A few new barrels rifles to be tested soon; hopefully with some videos as well. Builds/barrels on deck: PSA M110 (.308) PSA Jakl (223/5.56) Larue 20” 7.62 Proof 24” 6creedmoor Potential test items: X-caliber 6GT Craddock Precision 22ARC (one or two 22ARC’s will likely be tested as I’m very interested in this cartridge. Still evaluating offerings). In for the arc results. I am mildly curious about it but put off on how the 6Arc brass and loads are almost vaporware. Way to support a cartridge Hornady. I wonder what is keeping others from producing the brass? What’s going to happen with the 22 arc? |
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Originally Posted By DevL: What ever happened to that 16" Daniel Defense barrel? Is it a S2W profile or a government profile? Was it just not exciting enough to test? Govt Profile. It was tested in a limited capacity several months ago before work got in the way. Iirc, it printed back to back 10shot groups that were right at 1-1.2moa with ADI 69smk and a Vortex PST 1-4 optic. Due to some good friends that have lowers that support a higher rate of fire, it may not perform as well as it once did, but I’ll take it out soon. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and I’ll get to the range this weekend. I’ve just received some 22ARC ammo, sized 6.5g to 22ARC and bought some 168 otm and smk AAC ammo. |
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If you watch with low expectations of my editing skills, you probably won’t be disappointed!![]() PSA Sabre, M110 we have at home precision testing |
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Well Done ! I am pretty sure no one is expecting a Steven Spielberg PSA shooting video ! Lol IMHO, pretty good bang for the buck performance. How much was the PSA ? If... after further testing, the PSA barrel doesn't quite met your overall accuracy expectations..... maybe a Criterion 20" CL or Nitrided 20" would be a worthwhile investment. |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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TOGC,IADC
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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TOGC,IADC
Great performance in your 22" BA / PSA 140gr 6.5CM ![]() 22” Ballistic Advantage 6.5creedmoor, AAC 140gr BTHP, 557yds |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
PSA Sabre testing, pt 2![]() PSA Sabre Precision Testing, Pt. 2 |
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Impressive results from the 175gr FGMM. Funny how barrels can be... I have had much better results, in numerous 308 semi autos ( grudgingly, since the 175gr BC is so much better ) with the 168gr FGMM. Goes to show... you gotta try various ammo's , to see which your barrel prefers. Thank You for sharing ! |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
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I also have access to a very large number of .308 ammo to test in the future thanks to a VERY generous forum member. It’s literally just about every match ammo that you can buy. Still not sure what the best way to test will be. 10rds per barrel, bolt gun vs a precise gas gun? While the PSA Sabre has grouped well, it appears too picky for that type of test. I may swap out a new LaRue barrel to see how it does and go from there. If it doesn’t group, a Criterion or Craddock may be ordered. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I also have access to a very large number of .308 ammo to test in the future thanks to a VERY generous forum member. It’s literally just about every match ammo that you can buy. Still not sure what the best way to test will be. 10rds per barrel, bolt gun vs a precise gas gun? While the PSA Sabre has grouped well, it appears too picky for that type of test. I may swap out a new LaRue barrel to see how it does and go from there. If it doesn’t group, a Criterion or Craddock may be ordered. Assuming, you have only 20rds of "each"... I'd just see if the various rifles have a "preference" to any ammo.. or flat out hates a load. We saw your PSA really didn't like the 168gr OTM... but did better with the 175gr OTM... so now you know kind of a thing. Barrel wise... I would expect a Craddock to shot. I have had very good results from my Criterions, and have always felt like those are within the average guys budget. I would get a matched / headspace bolt with the barrel. ( Just got a complete Criterion 20" .223 W upper, I am looking forward to trying out, along with a WOA 18" ) I would use as many accuracy tuning tricks the average guy can do with any build, lap the receiver face, Loctite in the barrel ( or shim ) , snug upper to lower fit ( easy to fix ) ... nothing making contact with the gas block or Mlok screws.. smooth gas tube to gas key interface and no contact with the upper.... adj. GB to help fine tune the action. Myself... I would suggest sorting the various ammo into piles of "expectations" first. IE, least expensive, for gas guns just to see what the various ones would do. Maybe save 5rds for a bolt gun ? Anything expensive... I would tend to want to try in a bolt gun. Again, just to see if the rounds "like" your barrel.... maybe saving some for a gas gun, if you are curious Anything like "FGMM" like... I would like to know if my barrel "likes" the round. So a full on test, could be done later with more of that specific ammo. Ultimately , if you have limited rounds of a specific load... then I would consider it "general" testing, looking for dismal groups v. wow groups. And just have fun.... some of the ammo might shoot great for either and or both gas guns or bolt guns. I have been ( over the years ) surprised by various loads... inexpensive and expensive. The only way I would have found out if my barrel liked them, was by trying them. Some surprises over the years ( decades ) in 308... 2003 GGG Ball, shot as well as 168gr FGMM... ADI 308 165gr GameKing, also wildly accurate... Hornady AG 155gr , wonderful precision. I'm sure I could come up with other examples.. Lol My favorite "surprise" ammo of all time... Fed. .223 Tipped Varmint, shot right at 1MOA 10rd groups, out of every rifle I tried it in... and it cost $5.29/ 20 rounds, talk about cheap 100yd practice ! I would try not to over think it... just shoot and see if something is promising. |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
________________________________
TOGC,IADC
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Testing has resumed… Larue 20” .308 stealth barrel (0 rounds prior to this range trip) Optic: Vortex Razor Gen III, 6x36x56 Superlative Arms Adj Gas block TBAC 30p suppressor Still waiting on a match barrel, but decided to try a LaRue stealth barrel that I picked up a few months ago. Based on these initial results, it may prove suitable for overall testing. As expected, it shot the FGMM smk loads very well. Those are the loads I typically use to serve as a baseline for .308 performance, so we’ll see how this goes. No extended travel on my plans for the remainder of the year, so hopefully I can get some testing knocked out! Three to five shots were fired between ammo for seasoning the barrel to not skew the results. Chrono data, 10rds each: FGMM 175 Center strike: 2542fps, 12.9sd, 46.2es FGMM 175 smk: 2454fps, 13.2sd, 43.4es FGMM 168smk: 2516fps, 14.1sd, 41.2es AAC 168SMK: 2591fps, 16.0sd, 49.6es AAC 175smk: 2510fps, 8.4sd, 25.1es Hornady 168 HPBT: 2520fps, 8.4sd, 32.2es The slow FGMM smk loads had the best groups :) It’ll be interesting to see if this barrel speeds up, or if the ammo is just running that much slower in the colder temps, but it looks like the LT barrel is about 100fps slower than when I tested the PSA M110 barrel. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Confirmed via video…it’s the AAC 168smk load. Looks like the 168otm box made it into picture, but not the testing for the day. Attached File |
AR Precision Testing (Page 7 of 8)
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