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Posted: 8/13/2015 8:44:52 PM EDT
I hear the warnings and dire predictions of a pending collapse of our economy due to either outside influence or domestic stupidity.

What does it really mean to the daily goings on of the average American?

Does it mean that goods will be so expensive as to be out of reach of all but the most wealthy or will it mean that nothing is to be had at any price?


I'm wondering what a typical day would be like.   Everyone stays home and suffers or will it only effect certain portions of the population?
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 9:35:09 PM EDT
Pretty much yes.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:13:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea:
I hear the warnings and dire predictions of a pending collapse of our economy due to either outside influence or domestic stupidity.

What does it really mean to the daily goings on of the average American?

Does it mean that goods will be so expensive as to be out of reach of all but the most wealthy or will it mean that nothing is to be had at any price?


I'm wondering what a typical day would be like.   Everyone stays home and suffers or will it only effect certain portions of the population?
View Quote


One could look at historical accounts of the Great Depression to see the impact on the daily lives of most people. Thing is, we're not the same country now as we were then. We no longer have the majority of our citizens in agrarian pursuits. We also have a far smaller percentage of our population engaged in manufacturing than we did, say, in the 1950s and 60s during the post WWII boom. It would play out differently for us since we're predominately a consumer and service economy.

I think the impact will depend somewhat on the nature of the collapse and the scope of where you want to look. For example, the rate of single family house production is roughly 1/3 of what it was at the peak in ~2007. So, if you worked in the housing industry, you're already living "the collapse". OTOH, if a major bank gets caught short because they made a bad bet (and the .gov decides they didn't pay the requisite extortion monies to the right campaigns), then we could see a financial system meltdown. What would that mean? That could manifest itself like this little bit of fiction I created some time back:

So, you go to your favorite haunt for lunch, order the usual, and go to pay. The card is declined. The waiter says something about a lot of cards from BankofA$$holes have been declined today. So, you figure it must be another network problem that we've been hearing about fairly regularly over the past year or so. No biggie, you pay with cash and be on your way. On the way home from work, you decide that since you had to use cash for lunch, you need to stop by the ATM and refill your wallet. You drive up to the drive thru ATM, which says "Down for Maintenance". Which you, not being paranoid, assume is just a coincidence. You go home and go on-line to pay some bills and the web site is down for maintenance. So, your pre-conceived notion of a network or computer problem at the bank is confirmed in your mind. The next day, you run by the ATM, and it still says "Down for Maintenance". You go about your business and at lunch time you hear on the business news that the CFO of Blight-on-America is resigning effective immediately to "pursue other interests". You really need cash now (since you've had to buy lunch twice now with cash), and you take off work early to actually go by the local branch to get cash from the teller. Problem is, when you get there, there will be a sign on the door which says "Closed until further notice". WTF? What does that mean? When you get home, you turn on the national news to hear that your bank has filed for bankruptcy after the close of business. By morning, each of the other top 5 banks have done the same. They're all closed. The .gov declares a bank holiday and the exchanges suspend stock market trading, "to prevent unnecessary disruptions", which is code for "to prevent a bank run we can't come even close to covering". So, now, even though you supposedly have lots of money in the bank, you have nothing because you can't get to it. The FDIC only has a tiny fraction of the amount of assets to cover the demand deposits at even ONE major institution, much less all the top 5 (some 95% of all demand deposits in the banking system). So, it is likely at some point in the future, probably a month or so when TPTB figure out a plan, you're still only going to be able to extract a fraction of your money. Hint: Look at Cyprus and Greece currently - caps on withdrawls, only "insured" up to some small number, and the likelihood of a "one-time" tax on your deposits of ~25%.

My dad, who grew up during the depression used to say that "A loaf of bread was only $0.25, the problem was finding a quarter to buy it with." If you are suddenly unemployed, access to your savings is curtailed, your plastic-cash doesn't work, and even the EBT leeches (many of whose transactions go thru the top 5) can't get their Free $hit, how do you think this might play out?

To be sure, that worst-case scenario is less likely than simply a continuing slide in real wages, more unemployment, more deadbeats, higher cost of goods, an increase in crime and an overall slow-motion train wreck over a decade. Japan is now in their second decade of "collapse" because they thought they could solve all their problems with central planning and printed money. China appears to be on a similar collision course with gravity. I'm not convinced there will be a sudden calamity as such, but I would absolutely not rule it out, either.

As for "Everyone stays home", we've already seen one of those on Sept. 11th. I'd say 75-80% of non-military folks stayed home at least one day, some 2-3. So, it would take an event of similar magnitude to cause widespread self-isolation, like a really fast-moving pandemic of some sort, not a financial collapse.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:21:02 PM EDT
Read Les Miserables
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:22:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By planemaker:


One could look at historical accounts of the Great Depression to see the impact on the daily lives of most people. Thing is, we're not the same country now as we were then. We no longer have the majority of our citizens in agrarian pursuits. We also have a far smaller percentage of our population engaged in manufacturing than we did, say, in the 1950s and 60s during the post WWII boom. It would play out differently for us since we're predominately a consumer and service economy.

I think the impact will depend somewhat on the nature of the collapse and the scope of where you want to look. For example, the rate of single family house production is roughly 1/3 of what it was at the peak in ~2007. So, if you worked in the housing industry, you're already living "the collapse". OTOH, if a major bank gets caught short because they made a bad bet (and the .gov decides they didn't pay the requisite extortion monies to the right campaigns), then we could see a financial system meltdown. What would that mean? That could manifest itself like this little bit of fiction I created some time back:

So, you go to your favorite haunt for lunch, order the usual, and go to pay. The card is declined. The waiter says something about a lot of cards from BankofA$$holes have been declined today. So, you figure it must be another network problem that we've been hearing about fairly regularly over the past year or so. No biggie, you pay with cash and be on your way. On the way home from work, you decide that since you had to use cash for lunch, you need to stop by the ATM and refill your wallet. You drive up to the drive thru ATM, which says "Down for Maintenance". Which you, not being paranoid, assume is just a coincidence. You go home and go on-line to pay some bills and the web site is down for maintenance. So, your pre-conceived notion of a network or computer problem at the bank is confirmed in your mind. The next day, you run by the ATM, and it still says "Down for Maintenance". You go about your business and at lunch time you hear on the business news that the CFO of Blight-on-America is resigning effective immediately to "pursue other interests". You really need cash now (since you've had to buy lunch twice now with cash), and you take off work early to actually go by the local branch to get cash from the teller. Problem is, when you get there, there will be a sign on the door which says "Closed until further notice". WTF? What does that mean? When you get home, you turn on the national news to hear that your bank has filed for bankruptcy after the close of business. By morning, each of the other top 5 banks have done the same. They're all closed. The .gov declares a bank holiday and the exchanges suspend stock market trading, "to prevent unnecessary disruptions", which is code for "to prevent a bank run we can't come even close to covering". So, now, even though you supposedly have lots of money in the bank, you have nothing because you can't get to it. The FDIC only has a tiny fraction of the amount of assets to cover the demand deposits at even ONE major institution, much less all the top 5 (some 95% of all demand deposits in the banking system). So, it is likely at some point in the future, probably a month or so when TPTB figure out a plan, you're still only going to be able to extract a fraction of your money. Hint: Look at Cyprus and Greece currently - caps on withdrawls, only "insured" up to some small number, and the likelihood of a "one-time" tax on your deposits of ~25%.

My dad, who grew up during the depression used to say that "A loaf of bread was only $0.25, the problem was finding a quarter to buy it with." If you are suddenly unemployed, access to your savings is curtailed, your plastic-cash doesn't work, and even the EBT leeches (many of whose transactions go thru the top 5) can't get their Free $hit, how do you think this might play out?

To be sure, that worst-case scenario is less likely than simply a continuing slide in real wages, more unemployment, more deadbeats, higher cost of goods, an increase in crime and an overall slow-motion train wreck over a decade. Japan is now in their second decade of "collapse" because they thought they could solve all their problems with central planning and printed money. China appears to be on a similar collision course with gravity. I'm not convinced there will be a sudden calamity as such, but I would absolutely not rule it out, either.

As for "Everyone stays home", we've already seen one of those on Sept. 11th. I'd say 75-80% of non-military folks stayed home at least one day, some 2-3. So, it would take an event of similar magnitude to cause widespread self-isolation, like a really fast-moving pandemic of some sort, not a financial collapse.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By Pangea:
I hear the warnings and dire predictions of a pending collapse of our economy due to either outside influence or domestic stupidity.

What does it really mean to the daily goings on of the average American?

Does it mean that goods will be so expensive as to be out of reach of all but the most wealthy or will it mean that nothing is to be had at any price?


I'm wondering what a typical day would be like.   Everyone stays home and suffers or will it only effect certain portions of the population?


One could look at historical accounts of the Great Depression to see the impact on the daily lives of most people. Thing is, we're not the same country now as we were then. We no longer have the majority of our citizens in agrarian pursuits. We also have a far smaller percentage of our population engaged in manufacturing than we did, say, in the 1950s and 60s during the post WWII boom. It would play out differently for us since we're predominately a consumer and service economy.

I think the impact will depend somewhat on the nature of the collapse and the scope of where you want to look. For example, the rate of single family house production is roughly 1/3 of what it was at the peak in ~2007. So, if you worked in the housing industry, you're already living "the collapse". OTOH, if a major bank gets caught short because they made a bad bet (and the .gov decides they didn't pay the requisite extortion monies to the right campaigns), then we could see a financial system meltdown. What would that mean? That could manifest itself like this little bit of fiction I created some time back:

So, you go to your favorite haunt for lunch, order the usual, and go to pay. The card is declined. The waiter says something about a lot of cards from BankofA$$holes have been declined today. So, you figure it must be another network problem that we've been hearing about fairly regularly over the past year or so. No biggie, you pay with cash and be on your way. On the way home from work, you decide that since you had to use cash for lunch, you need to stop by the ATM and refill your wallet. You drive up to the drive thru ATM, which says "Down for Maintenance". Which you, not being paranoid, assume is just a coincidence. You go home and go on-line to pay some bills and the web site is down for maintenance. So, your pre-conceived notion of a network or computer problem at the bank is confirmed in your mind. The next day, you run by the ATM, and it still says "Down for Maintenance". You go about your business and at lunch time you hear on the business news that the CFO of Blight-on-America is resigning effective immediately to "pursue other interests". You really need cash now (since you've had to buy lunch twice now with cash), and you take off work early to actually go by the local branch to get cash from the teller. Problem is, when you get there, there will be a sign on the door which says "Closed until further notice". WTF? What does that mean? When you get home, you turn on the national news to hear that your bank has filed for bankruptcy after the close of business. By morning, each of the other top 5 banks have done the same. They're all closed. The .gov declares a bank holiday and the exchanges suspend stock market trading, "to prevent unnecessary disruptions", which is code for "to prevent a bank run we can't come even close to covering". So, now, even though you supposedly have lots of money in the bank, you have nothing because you can't get to it. The FDIC only has a tiny fraction of the amount of assets to cover the demand deposits at even ONE major institution, much less all the top 5 (some 95% of all demand deposits in the banking system). So, it is likely at some point in the future, probably a month or so when TPTB figure out a plan, you're still only going to be able to extract a fraction of your money. Hint: Look at Cyprus and Greece currently - caps on withdrawls, only "insured" up to some small number, and the likelihood of a "one-time" tax on your deposits of ~25%.

My dad, who grew up during the depression used to say that "A loaf of bread was only $0.25, the problem was finding a quarter to buy it with." If you are suddenly unemployed, access to your savings is curtailed, your plastic-cash doesn't work, and even the EBT leeches (many of whose transactions go thru the top 5) can't get their Free $hit, how do you think this might play out?

To be sure, that worst-case scenario is less likely than simply a continuing slide in real wages, more unemployment, more deadbeats, higher cost of goods, an increase in crime and an overall slow-motion train wreck over a decade. Japan is now in their second decade of "collapse" because they thought they could solve all their problems with central planning and printed money. China appears to be on a similar collision course with gravity. I'm not convinced there will be a sudden calamity as such, but I would absolutely not rule it out, either.

As for "Everyone stays home", we've already seen one of those on Sept. 11th. I'd say 75-80% of non-military folks stayed home at least one day, some 2-3. So, it would take an event of similar magnitude to cause widespread self-isolation, like a really fast-moving pandemic of some sort, not a financial collapse.


On the third day of a bank holiday, things will get tense. Seven days shit will get really interesting and a few unconfirmed reports of "civil unrest" will happen at grocery stores, gas stations and Wal-Marts. A few days after that.... well hope you are prepared to defend in place, because the EBT crowd and sheep will be getting very hungry.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 11:34:16 PM EDT
Planemaker, that's some scary stuff.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 11:48:40 PM EDT
You nailed the first five days. After that, things will get wierd. If it's a total banking collapse with full stoppage of all normal services, all bets are off. Major cities will be a hell hole. Violent home invasions, carjackings, murders and general person on person violance. Think of what you are capable of doing when your kid is starving and its day 3 with no food. You need a plan to get out to the country in the first five days.

V
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 12:03:22 AM EDT
I'm more worried about what happens when EBT is only paid 50% of what used to be "normal" because .gov can't charge up all the cards.

Same deal with SS and disability payouts.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 12:12:37 AM EDT
Have enough food and water for your family, and enough guns and ammo to defend it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 1:17:21 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By planemaker:


One could look at historical accounts of the Great Depression to see the impact on the daily lives of most people. Thing is, we're not the same country now as we were then. We no longer have the majority of our citizens in agrarian pursuits. We also have a far smaller percentage of our population engaged in manufacturing than we did, say, in the 1950s and 60s during the post WWII boom. It would play out differently for us since we're predominately a consumer and service economy.

I think the impact will depend somewhat on the nature of the collapse and the scope of where you want to look. For example, the rate of single family house production is roughly 1/3 of what it was at the peak in ~2007. So, if you worked in the housing industry, you're already living "the collapse". OTOH, if a major bank gets caught short because they made a bad bet (and the .gov decides they didn't pay the requisite extortion monies to the right campaigns), then we could see a financial system meltdown. What would that mean? That could manifest itself like this little bit of fiction I created some time back:

So, you go to your favorite haunt for lunch, order the usual, and go to pay. The card is declined. The waiter says something about a lot of cards from BankofA$$holes have been declined today. So, you figure it must be another network problem that we've been hearing about fairly regularly over the past year or so. No biggie, you pay with cash and be on your way. On the way home from work, you decide that since you had to use cash for lunch, you need to stop by the ATM and refill your wallet. You drive up to the drive thru ATM, which says "Down for Maintenance". Which you, not being paranoid, assume is just a coincidence. You go home and go on-line to pay some bills and the web site is down for maintenance. So, your pre-conceived notion of a network or computer problem at the bank is confirmed in your mind. The next day, you run by the ATM, and it still says "Down for Maintenance". You go about your business and at lunch time you hear on the business news that the CFO of Blight-on-America is resigning effective immediately to "pursue other interests". You really need cash now (since you've had to buy lunch twice now with cash), and you take off work early to actually go by the local branch to get cash from the teller. Problem is, when you get there, there will be a sign on the door which says "Closed until further notice". WTF? What does that mean? When you get home, you turn on the national news to hear that your bank has filed for bankruptcy after the close of business. By morning, each of the other top 5 banks have done the same. They're all closed. The .gov declares a bank holiday and the exchanges suspend stock market trading, "to prevent unnecessary disruptions", which is code for "to prevent a bank run we can't come even close to covering". So, now, even though you supposedly have lots of money in the bank, you have nothing because you can't get to it. The FDIC only has a tiny fraction of the amount of assets to cover the demand deposits at even ONE major institution, much less all the top 5 (some 95% of all demand deposits in the banking system). So, it is likely at some point in the future, probably a month or so when TPTB figure out a plan, you're still only going to be able to extract a fraction of your money. Hint: Look at Cyprus and Greece currently - caps on withdrawls, only "insured" up to some small number, and the likelihood of a "one-time" tax on your deposits of ~25%.

My dad, who grew up during the depression used to say that "A loaf of bread was only $0.25, the problem was finding a quarter to buy it with." If you are suddenly unemployed, access to your savings is curtailed, your plastic-cash doesn't work, and even the EBT leeches (many of whose transactions go thru the top 5) can't get their Free $hit, how do you think this might play out?

To be sure, that worst-case scenario is less likely than simply a continuing slide in real wages, more unemployment, more deadbeats, higher cost of goods, an increase in crime and an overall slow-motion train wreck over a decade. Japan is now in their second decade of "collapse" because they thought they could solve all their problems with central planning and printed money. China appears to be on a similar collision course with gravity. I'm not convinced there will be a sudden calamity as such, but I would absolutely not rule it out, either.

As for "Everyone stays home", we've already seen one of those on Sept. 11th. I'd say 75-80% of non-military folks stayed home at least one day, some 2-3. So, it would take an event of similar magnitude to cause widespread self-isolation, like a really fast-moving pandemic of some sort, not a financial collapse.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By Pangea:
I hear the warnings and dire predictions of a pending collapse of our economy due to either outside influence or domestic stupidity.

What does it really mean to the daily goings on of the average American?

Does it mean that goods will be so expensive as to be out of reach of all but the most wealthy or will it mean that nothing is to be had at any price?


I'm wondering what a typical day would be like.   Everyone stays home and suffers or will it only effect certain portions of the population?


One could look at historical accounts of the Great Depression to see the impact on the daily lives of most people. Thing is, we're not the same country now as we were then. We no longer have the majority of our citizens in agrarian pursuits. We also have a far smaller percentage of our population engaged in manufacturing than we did, say, in the 1950s and 60s during the post WWII boom. It would play out differently for us since we're predominately a consumer and service economy.

I think the impact will depend somewhat on the nature of the collapse and the scope of where you want to look. For example, the rate of single family house production is roughly 1/3 of what it was at the peak in ~2007. So, if you worked in the housing industry, you're already living "the collapse". OTOH, if a major bank gets caught short because they made a bad bet (and the .gov decides they didn't pay the requisite extortion monies to the right campaigns), then we could see a financial system meltdown. What would that mean? That could manifest itself like this little bit of fiction I created some time back:

So, you go to your favorite haunt for lunch, order the usual, and go to pay. The card is declined. The waiter says something about a lot of cards from BankofA$$holes have been declined today. So, you figure it must be another network problem that we've been hearing about fairly regularly over the past year or so. No biggie, you pay with cash and be on your way. On the way home from work, you decide that since you had to use cash for lunch, you need to stop by the ATM and refill your wallet. You drive up to the drive thru ATM, which says "Down for Maintenance". Which you, not being paranoid, assume is just a coincidence. You go home and go on-line to pay some bills and the web site is down for maintenance. So, your pre-conceived notion of a network or computer problem at the bank is confirmed in your mind. The next day, you run by the ATM, and it still says "Down for Maintenance". You go about your business and at lunch time you hear on the business news that the CFO of Blight-on-America is resigning effective immediately to "pursue other interests". You really need cash now (since you've had to buy lunch twice now with cash), and you take off work early to actually go by the local branch to get cash from the teller. Problem is, when you get there, there will be a sign on the door which says "Closed until further notice". WTF? What does that mean? When you get home, you turn on the national news to hear that your bank has filed for bankruptcy after the close of business. By morning, each of the other top 5 banks have done the same. They're all closed. The .gov declares a bank holiday and the exchanges suspend stock market trading, "to prevent unnecessary disruptions", which is code for "to prevent a bank run we can't come even close to covering". So, now, even though you supposedly have lots of money in the bank, you have nothing because you can't get to it. The FDIC only has a tiny fraction of the amount of assets to cover the demand deposits at even ONE major institution, much less all the top 5 (some 95% of all demand deposits in the banking system). So, it is likely at some point in the future, probably a month or so when TPTB figure out a plan, you're still only going to be able to extract a fraction of your money. Hint: Look at Cyprus and Greece currently - caps on withdrawls, only "insured" up to some small number, and the likelihood of a "one-time" tax on your deposits of ~25%.

My dad, who grew up during the depression used to say that "A loaf of bread was only $0.25, the problem was finding a quarter to buy it with." If you are suddenly unemployed, access to your savings is curtailed, your plastic-cash doesn't work, and even the EBT leeches (many of whose transactions go thru the top 5) can't get their Free $hit, how do you think this might play out?

To be sure, that worst-case scenario is less likely than simply a continuing slide in real wages, more unemployment, more deadbeats, higher cost of goods, an increase in crime and an overall slow-motion train wreck over a decade. Japan is now in their second decade of "collapse" because they thought they could solve all their problems with central planning and printed money. China appears to be on a similar collision course with gravity. I'm not convinced there will be a sudden calamity as such, but I would absolutely not rule it out, either.

As for "Everyone stays home", we've already seen one of those on Sept. 11th. I'd say 75-80% of non-military folks stayed home at least one day, some 2-3. So, it would take an event of similar magnitude to cause widespread self-isolation, like a really fast-moving pandemic of some sort, not a financial collapse.


In Greece, cash was limited but credit cards and electronic transfers were not.

I expect the fed to simply print more money to cover FDIC insured deposits, same for any other obligations. If the US suffers a financial collapse, it will be unlike anything we have seen in other countries or here in the past. That is assuming that there is an actual " collapse" rather than simply a long term period of economic lethargy.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 3:06:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 3:07:00 AM EDT by EXPY37]
Hate to mention this...

We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...


Look around -this is what it looks like...

At THIS stage of the process.







Link Posted: 8/14/2015 3:31:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 3:32:35 AM EDT by ferfal308]
It basically means more poverty,  more crime, more stress and a great loss of quality of life. You probably won't see that many people starving, but the drop of real quality of life regarding health and education will be noticeable.the division between rich and poor will reach third world proportions with the middle class almost disappearing. I'll write some more once I'm at the computer or maybe do a video, it's it's a good question.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 6:12:34 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:


Hate to mention this...



We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...





Look around -this is what it looks like...



At THIS stage of the process.
View Quote




 
Shut your mouth...i cant hear dancing with the stars when you babble on like that.........




;p
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 6:19:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 6:31:44 AM EDT by BillofRights]
All you have to do, is read about the experiences people have had in other countries.  It's not like it's a rare phenomenon. Better yet, Go there and experience it for yourself.      You can even go to the bad parts of town right here in America, for a taste of the future.  

Ferfal's been writing about it for a decade or so.


As they say: A recession is when your friends lose their jobs.    A Depression is when you lose Your job.  

I lost my job both times the economy faltered.  9/11 and again in 07.    So did a lot of other people.      

Those who have a Government or Healthcare jobs, are much more insulated from reality.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 7:21:24 AM EDT
I have a job because people buy cabinets and furniture. Once that disposable income goes away I'm in trouble. Fortunately I have a lot of skills to fall back on. A slow collapse will grind us all into dust if we are not diversified and well educated.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 8:13:48 AM EDT
Most people were not unemployed, or homeless during GD part 1.  A serious minority, about 25% if you believe gov statistics. Even if you don't, even 40% is not the majority.

I don't believe we will ever have a majority become homeless or starving or something, some collapse a la "The Road" or Mad Max.

My guess is, 30-40% will be affected, of course you never know if you become a part of that percentage.



Link Posted: 8/14/2015 8:35:15 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Hate to mention this...

We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...


Look around -this is what it looks like...

At THIS stage of the process.



View Quote



Caterpillar has had 31 months of straight sales declines. Think about what that means.....no one is clearing housing pads or commercial building pads. No one is extracting minerals or timber. No one is building roads. Look at the crash of commodities prices. Look at the Baltic Dry Index......The only northern European government that will balance the books this year-- due to the collapse of the oil market is Norway. The Russian economy is budgeted on $100 a barrel oil....they are burning reserves like you can't imagine. The Chinese stock market fell off a cliff....In my own town we have closed quite a few restaurants- of course we had too many to begin with and they are a business that begs to fold anyway but there seems to have been an uptick of late. The pipeline business is doing well, infrastructure trying to catch up to the drilling boom, but nobody is punching new wells except stuff that is drill or forfeit kinda stuff.We are selling lots of homes locally- pent up demand and LOW interest rates....Cattleman are doing well but they haven't really rebuilt their herds from the drought years yet, we got lots of rain and the pastures are full of grass and slick cows. Cotton looks great and input costs are down, lots of new trucks going to be sold this winter.....

There ARE people doing well though, some REALLY WELL.... I know a couple- in their late 20's, both with Pharmacy Degrees. They each make over $125k-- at their primary job. Then because of their work schedule which is one week on, one week off they are able to work a secondary job that pays almost as much. They aren't even 30 and are pulling down a combined half a mil....They got in a big argument the other day because they are building a new house and she went over budget and they are going to have to borrow $100k from the bank to complete it....on a $1.25 mil house......

So yea, this is what it looks like.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 11:48:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 2:03:29 PM EDT by 4v50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Hate to mention this...

We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...


Look around -this is what it looks like...

At THIS stage of the process.






View Quote

Concur.  We've been in a collapse since 2008.   Expect the greatest wealth transfer ever soon.  

As to what it will look like here, think Weimar Germany, post WW I Austria (see Anna Eisenmenger's Blockade: An Austrian Housewife's Diary) and post WW I Hungary, Argentina (2001) or Zimbabwe.  

I expect plenty of starving unless, hopefully, there are soup kitchens (in lieu of EBTs).  No soup kitchens = mass starvation.  Remember when that New England town that lost its water supply?  The mayor told them to boil their water.  Simple enough.  However, people rushed to the stores to buy water and it was a mob scene.  It was a madhouse.  Remember those Black Friday storming of stores for that super bargain or how some folks responded at Wally World when their EBT cards had a glitch?  Now, imagine the same thing for everything we take for granted in daily life.  

Planemaker explained it quite well.  Credit cards won't be honored.  Cash will be king and ATMs drained and not replenished.  Expect a bank holiday too and assets frozen.   Examples include Argentina, Greece or if you read Benjamin Roth's The Great Depression: A Diary, bank holidays right here in the good ole U. S. of A.  Then again, those frozen $$$ assets aren't yours anymore.  Why?  The Bankruptcy Act of 2005 said that primary creditors gets dibs.  Follow this up with the Dodd-Frank that made savers into unsecured creditors.  What does that mean?  When, you're second in line for the money you deposited.  

Turning to equities, you don't own them either.  In my days when you bought stock, you received a certificate.  Modernly you get a statement from your broker and the stock is held in a trust which holds title to that stock you bought.  You are merely the intended beneficiary.  If that trust goes up, you're second in line again.  Thank the people you sent to the capitol.

Expect hyper-inflation to kick in when the dollar finally dies (read James Rickards' The Death of Money or John Rubino's & James Turk's The Money Bubble). People will spend their money on food and fuel (gotta stay warm) first and they'll let go of their mortgage and will become tenants (or homeless).  

Most of the public won't figure out who is responsible either (if you don't know, read Nomi Prins' All The Presidents' Bankers).  They will accept the first solution offered by the very culprits who engineered their misery. "Embrace the suck," as suggested by Hitlery.

You may also want to subscribe to Selco's SHTFSchool.  He gives good insights of the war in former Yugoslavia.  Selco warns about the lies the politicians feed the public,  It was things like, "Don't worry, food will arrive, things will return to normal, services will be restored...."  Ferfal's (Fernando Aguirre) book, Surviving the Economic Collapse, was one of the first that I read.  Highly recommended.

Lesson:  Buy your 3 B's now.  Don't wait until the panic begins. You don't want to be outside when the masses becomes a mob.  The more self sufficient you are, the less of a burden you become to the first responders.  Make sure you have a plan for your household.  How do they get home?  Everybody got good walking shoes at work/school (can be old exercise/tennis shoes you were going to throw out)?  Got extra meds at work (in case you can't get home)?  Got spare clothes at work?  How about a toothbrush and stuff for contact lens?  Don't rely on cell phones. Got push-to-talk cell phones (they will work)?  We had them at my workplace so that if the cell phones stopped and the landlines went dead, we could still talk with each other and coordinate our responses (score one for civil service).

Glad I'm not a teenager or twenty-something and have to live through the nightmare that is going to descend upon this nation.  I can brag, I saw Pax Americana.  Good to be an older fart.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 1:50:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Southrnshooter:
Have enough food and water for your family, and enough guns and ammo to defend it.
View Quote



Pretty much this.  

I can get behind what I am reading in here, but when reality sets in and the idea the hungry coming for my stuff, the above is what resonates most.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 3:18:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 3:22:41 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:

Concur.  We've been in a collapse since 2008.   Expect the greatest wealth transfer ever soon.  

As to what it will look like here, think Weimar Germany, post WW I Austria (see Anna Eisenmenger's Blockade: An Austrian Housewife's Diary) and post WW I Hungary, Argentina (2001) or Zimbabwe.  

I expect plenty of starving unless, hopefully, there are soup kitchens (in lieu of EBTs).  No soup kitchens = mass starvation.  Remember when that New England town that lost its water supply?  The mayor told them to boil their water.  Simple enough.  However, people rushed to the stores to buy water and it was a mob scene.  It was a madhouse.  Remember those Black Friday storming of stores for that super bargain or how some folks responded at Wally World when their EBT cards had a glitch?  Now, imagine the same thing for everything we take for granted in daily life.  

Planemaker explained it quite well.  Credit cards won't be honored.  Cash will be king and ATMs drained and not replenished.  Expect a bank holiday too and assets frozen.   Examples include Argentina, Greece or if you read Benjamin Roth's The Great Depression: A Diary, bank holidays right here in the good ole U. S. of A.  Then again, those frozen $$$ assets aren't yours anymore.  Why?  The Bankruptcy Act of 2005 said that primary creditors gets dibs.  Follow this up with the Dodd-Frank that made savers into unsecured creditors.  What does that mean?  When, you're second in line for the money you deposited.  

Turning to equities, you don't own them either.  In my days when you bought stock, you received a certificate.  Modernly you get a statement from your broker and the stock is held in a trust which holds title to that stock you bought.  You are merely the intended beneficiary.  If that trust goes up, you're second in line again.  Thank the people you sent to the capitol.

Expect hyper-inflation to kick in when the dollar finally dies (read James Rickards' The Death of Money or John Rubino's & James Turk's The Money Bubble). People will spend their money on food and fuel (gotta stay warm) first and they'll let go of their mortgage and will become tenants (or homeless).  

Most of the public won't figure out who is responsible either (if you don't know, read Nomi Prins' All The Presidents' Bankers).  They will accept the first solution offered by the very culprits who engineered their misery. "Embrace the suck," as suggested by Hitlery.

You may also want to subscribe to Selco's SHTFSchool.  He gives good insights of the war in former Yugoslavia.  Selco warns about the lies the politicians feed the public,  It was things like, "Don't worry, food will arrive, things will return to normal, services will be restored...."  Ferfal's (Fernando Aguirre) book, Surviving the Economic Collapse, was one of the first that I read.  Highly recommended.

Lesson:  Buy your 3 B's now.  Don't wait until the panic begins. You don't want to be outside when the masses becomes a mob.  The more self sufficient you are, the less of a burden you become to the first responders.  Make sure you have a plan for your household.  How do they get home?  Everybody got good walking shoes at work/school (can be old exercise/tennis shoes you were going to throw out)?  Got extra meds at work (in case you can't get home)?  Got spare clothes at work?  How about a toothbrush and stuff for contact lens?  Don't rely on cell phones. Got push-to-talk cell phones (they will work)?  We had them at my workplace so that if the cell phones stopped and the landlines went dead, we could still talk with each other and coordinate our responses (score one for civil service).

Glad I'm not a teenager or twenty-something and have to live through the nightmare that is going to descend upon this nation.  I can brag, I saw Pax Americana.  Good to be an older fart.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Hate to mention this...

We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...


Look around -this is what it looks like...

At THIS stage of the process.







Concur.  We've been in a collapse since 2008.   Expect the greatest wealth transfer ever soon.  

As to what it will look like here, think Weimar Germany, post WW I Austria (see Anna Eisenmenger's Blockade: An Austrian Housewife's Diary) and post WW I Hungary, Argentina (2001) or Zimbabwe.  

I expect plenty of starving unless, hopefully, there are soup kitchens (in lieu of EBTs).  No soup kitchens = mass starvation.  Remember when that New England town that lost its water supply?  The mayor told them to boil their water.  Simple enough.  However, people rushed to the stores to buy water and it was a mob scene.  It was a madhouse.  Remember those Black Friday storming of stores for that super bargain or how some folks responded at Wally World when their EBT cards had a glitch?  Now, imagine the same thing for everything we take for granted in daily life.  

Planemaker explained it quite well.  Credit cards won't be honored.  Cash will be king and ATMs drained and not replenished.  Expect a bank holiday too and assets frozen.   Examples include Argentina, Greece or if you read Benjamin Roth's The Great Depression: A Diary, bank holidays right here in the good ole U. S. of A.  Then again, those frozen $$$ assets aren't yours anymore.  Why?  The Bankruptcy Act of 2005 said that primary creditors gets dibs.  Follow this up with the Dodd-Frank that made savers into unsecured creditors.  What does that mean?  When, you're second in line for the money you deposited.  

Turning to equities, you don't own them either.  In my days when you bought stock, you received a certificate.  Modernly you get a statement from your broker and the stock is held in a trust which holds title to that stock you bought.  You are merely the intended beneficiary.  If that trust goes up, you're second in line again.  Thank the people you sent to the capitol.

Expect hyper-inflation to kick in when the dollar finally dies (read James Rickards' The Death of Money or John Rubino's & James Turk's The Money Bubble). People will spend their money on food and fuel (gotta stay warm) first and they'll let go of their mortgage and will become tenants (or homeless).  

Most of the public won't figure out who is responsible either (if you don't know, read Nomi Prins' All The Presidents' Bankers).  They will accept the first solution offered by the very culprits who engineered their misery. "Embrace the suck," as suggested by Hitlery.

You may also want to subscribe to Selco's SHTFSchool.  He gives good insights of the war in former Yugoslavia.  Selco warns about the lies the politicians feed the public,  It was things like, "Don't worry, food will arrive, things will return to normal, services will be restored...."  Ferfal's (Fernando Aguirre) book, Surviving the Economic Collapse, was one of the first that I read.  Highly recommended.

Lesson:  Buy your 3 B's now.  Don't wait until the panic begins. You don't want to be outside when the masses becomes a mob.  The more self sufficient you are, the less of a burden you become to the first responders.  Make sure you have a plan for your household.  How do they get home?  Everybody got good walking shoes at work/school (can be old exercise/tennis shoes you were going to throw out)?  Got extra meds at work (in case you can't get home)?  Got spare clothes at work?  How about a toothbrush and stuff for contact lens?  Don't rely on cell phones. Got push-to-talk cell phones (they will work)?  We had them at my workplace so that if the cell phones stopped and the landlines went dead, we could still talk with each other and coordinate our responses (score one for civil service).

Glad I'm not a teenager or twenty-something and have to live through the nightmare that is going to descend upon this nation.  I can brag, I saw Pax Americana.  Good to be an older fart.




"Pax Americana"


I too am old enough to have lived during ---IMHO, the greatest days of America.  

I've watched our accelerating decent with some -uh -anticipation.




We all have varying and finite days to spend on Earth, and I have no regret many of mine were during that period.


I regret that folks born more recently have NO IDEA what it was like to live back then.


Before Political Correctness and all the Leftist crap, as just one means of destroying the USA, was instituted upon us.



BTW, I heard that Union Pacific or whatever was liquidating a bunch of RR equipment, engines, etc, old stuff, anyone have info?





Link Posted: 8/14/2015 3:24:22 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
"Pax Americana"





I too am old enough to have lived during ---IMHO, the greatest days of America.  



I've watched our accelerating decent with some -uh -anticipation.









We all have varying and finite days to spend on Earth, and I have no regret many of mine were during that period.





I regret that folks born more recently have NO IDEA what it was like to live back then.





Before Political Correctness and all the Leftist crap, as just one means of destroying the USA, was instituted upon us.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:



Originally Posted By 4v50:


Originally Posted By EXPY37:

Hate to mention this...



We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...





Look around -this is what it looks like...



At THIS stage of the process.


Concur.  We've been in a collapse since 2008.   Expect the greatest wealth transfer ever soon.  



As to what it will look like here, think Weimar Germany, post WW I Austria (see Anna Eisenmenger's Blockade: An Austrian Housewife's Diary) and post WW I Hungary, Argentina (2001) or Zimbabwe.  



I expect plenty of starving unless, hopefully, there are soup kitchens (in lieu of EBTs).  No soup kitchens = mass starvation.  Remember when that New England town that lost its water supply?  The mayor told them to boil their water.  Simple enough.  However, people rushed to the stores to buy water and it was a mob scene.  It was a madhouse.  Remember those Black Friday storming of stores for that super bargain or how some folks responded at Wally World when their EBT cards had a glitch?  Now, imagine the same thing for everything we take for granted in daily life.  



Planemaker explained it quite well.  Credit cards won't be honored.  Cash will be king and ATMs drained and not replenished.  Expect a bank holiday too and assets frozen.   Examples include Argentina, Greece or if you read Benjamin Roth's The Great Depression: A Diary, bank holidays right here in the good ole U. S. of A.  Then again, those frozen $$$ assets aren't yours anymore.  Why?  The Bankruptcy Act of 2005 said that primary creditors gets dibs.  Follow this up with the Dodd-Frank that made savers into unsecured creditors.  What does that mean?  When, you're second in line for the money you deposited.  



Turning to equities, you don't own them either.  In my days when you bought stock, you received a certificate.  Modernly you get a statement from your broker and the stock is held in a trust which holds title to that stock you bought.  You are merely the intended beneficiary.  If that trust goes up, you're second in line again.  Thank the people you sent to the capitol.



Expect hyper-inflation to kick in when the dollar finally dies (read James Rickards' The Death of Money or John Rubino's & James Turk's The Money Bubble). People will spend their money on food and fuel (gotta stay warm) first and they'll let go of their mortgage and will become tenants (or homeless).  



Most of the public won't figure out who is responsible either (if you don't know, read Nomi Prins' All The Presidents' Bankers).  They will accept the first solution offered by the very culprits who engineered their misery. "Embrace the suck," as suggested by Hitlery.



You may also want to subscribe to Selco's SHTFSchool.  He gives good insights of the war in former Yugoslavia.  Selco warns about the lies the politicians feed the public,  It was things like, "Don't worry, food will arrive, things will return to normal, services will be restored...."  Ferfal's (Fernando Aguirre) book, Surviving the Economic Collapse, was one of the first that I read.  Highly recommended.



Lesson:  Buy your 3 B's now.  Don't wait until the panic begins. You don't want to be outside when the masses becomes a mob.  The more self sufficient you are, the less of a burden you become to the first responders.  Make sure you have a plan for your household.  How do they get home?  Everybody got good walking shoes at work/school (can be old exercise/tennis shoes you were going to throw out)?  Got extra meds at work (in case you can't get home)?  Got spare clothes at work?  How about a toothbrush and stuff for contact lens?  Don't rely on cell phones. Got push-to-talk cell phones (they will work)?  We had them at my workplace so that if the cell phones stopped and the landlines went dead, we could still talk with each other and coordinate our responses (score one for civil service).



Glad I'm not a teenager or twenty-something and have to live through the nightmare that is going to descend upon this nation.  I can brag, I saw Pax Americana.  Good to be an older fart.

"Pax Americana"





I too am old enough to have lived during ---IMHO, the greatest days of America.  



I've watched our accelerating decent with some -uh -anticipation.









We all have varying and finite days to spend on Earth, and I have no regret many of mine were during that period.





I regret that folks born more recently have NO IDEA what it was like to live back then.





Before Political Correctness and all the Leftist crap, as just one means of destroying the USA, was instituted upon us.
As a late 20's to early 30's age bracket with kids, I feel for my kids the most.

 



It is a struggle form me to get us setup for being self sufficient, but we had/have the opportunity.




For them, it will be 10x as hard. At least they will have our place to fall back to. Not enough acreage to support their families too, though.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 3:55:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
As a late 20's to early 30's age bracket with kids, I feel for my kids the most.  

It is a struggle form me to get us setup for being self sufficient, but we had/have the opportunity.


For them, it will be 10x as hard. At least they will have our place to fall back to. Not enough acreage to support their families too, though.
View Quote

I guess I'm about about a decade ahead of you but feel the same way.

I worry most for my kids, and hope pray I am not squandering my time on this planet.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 7:22:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Hate to mention this...

We're ALREADY in an Economic Collapse...


Look around -this is what it looks like...

At THIS stage of the process.

I think you are right (mostly).  Look at food prices: take some basics and compare.  Have seen in the past year some items rise as much as 100% and some items remain at the same price but with less quality (think coffee in smaller containers).  A 'slow boil' does not catch many peoples attention but as the pace picks up - watch out.







View Quote

Link Posted: 8/14/2015 8:49:26 PM EDT
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 9:53:55 PM EDT
I think it's a long decent until we reach the tipping point. No clue when that happens. I suspect the Nyquil drip that has the US public asleep in the voting booth will not decrease. We will continue our national march towards entropy.
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 10:00:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?
View Quote


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?
Link Posted: 8/14/2015 10:26:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2015 10:28:11 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pangea:


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?




Soooo...

Your Normalcy Bias has blocked your...

Comprehension ---of the arguably factual responses in this topic.




Link Posted: 8/14/2015 10:55:45 PM EDT
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  And his spending power is dependent on cheap imported crap, low energy and food prices, and a fairly weak and vulnerable economic system.  

Here's how it works.  Joe Main Street buys a home.  It isn't a 900 sq footer with one bath like grandpa, grandma and the six kids bought in 1948.  Its a 2800 sq footer with two living rooms and three and a half baths.  Of course, its all financed.  and it isn't financed so its easy to pay off quickly.  Its "how big a house can I get for how small a payment", which means adjustable rates and 30 years.  He can pay for this.............. if rates stay low and he doesn't loose his job.  Any little economic bump, and its in foreclosure.  Of course, those bumps hit neighbors too, so 4 out of 10 houses on the street will have a for sale sign out on the lawn, and housing prices fall.  Its the housing market collapse from a half dozen years ago all over.

Given that many americans have NO net worth, and of those that do have net worth, most is tied up in housing , this means that a housing market bump burns up any accumulated wealth for many americans...

Americans also live fairly well because our actual hardcore costs for living are cheap.  We don't spend much on food and energy.  Sure, it seems like we do.  However, I bet most americans food budgets account for what, maybe 5-10% of their wages.  Compared to other countries,where food can be 20-30-40% or more of a budget, our food is cheap.  Same for energy.  We drive Suburbans, and Tahoes, and F250's and the like.  A family vehicle in most of the world is something much, much smaller.  Again, gas and energy seem expensive, but as a percent of our income, its small.

This stuff is cheap because we have a fairly strong dollar.  So far.  Relative to other currencies, ours is strong.  We can but foreign good cheap.  In the event of an economic crisis, out dollar can take a huge hit.  If and when our dollar tanks (which is getting likelier by the day, thanks to rampant spending by republicans, democrats and the Fed Reserve Bank), the cost of everything skyrockets.  What do youthink life will be like if the food budget for a family goes from 7% or income to , say 37%???  Given that most americans have NO extra money, this means something is going to collapse.  Again, we have a parallel.  Economies in post WW1 Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Zimbabwe and now Greece are feeling this. For that matter, ask grand dad about live during the Great Depression.  There were an awful lot of very skinny Americans back then.

Our whole supply and distribution systems is fragile and dependent.  It depends on just in time deliveries of everything from toilet paper and tampons to food, oil, and auto parts.  If there are price hikes in transportation costs its becomes fragile.  If economy weakens and the govt stops spending money on minimal infrastructure, things like bridges and ports start going downhill fast.As highways break down, its harder and more expensive to move stuff.  Most of our supplies  -food, groceries, etc -  moves through some reply impressive central distribution systems.  And these hubs are running right at the very edge of hyper efficiency.  We are talking 400-600 semi vans simultaneously unloading, and loading, moving product to shelves that will be sold 18 hours later.  There is NO back stock, no reserve.  When the economy takes a hit, or there is a dislocation, this system can fall in a hurry.  

What you'll likely get is a shortage of many goods, combined with severe price hikes  It will hit places and populations unevenly.  Got a place where everyone is dependent on social assistance?  Its going to get REALLY ugly fast.  These people arnet known as great planners, so I doubt they've got any r eserves squirreled away.  They've got the latest running shoes and proper athletic team sportswear and a great TV system but no food set aside.  When the shortages come, and prices spike, the welfare bums will find the checks done go far enough,.

Middle class america will get hit hard too.  It's hard to accept that you cannot take a family vacation this year.  And most won't want to sell the boat, or downsize the car. Most hang on to the lifestyle and debt and ride it right into foreclosure.  Its hard to feel like you are living  middle class life when the banks have foreclosed and there isn't money enough left over for food.  (remember the ladies in Jaguars and BMW's lined up at food closets during the housing crisis).

A lot of goods and services are going to go away.  And with it a lot of jobs.  Given we live in a service economy, unemployment will skyrocket.   Just look hard at the Great Depression, and you'll see some areas and populations got hit harder than others.  And very very few prospered.  I suspect that a coming economic downfall could easily outpace the Depression for severity and length.  I really don't think our current population is equipped to handle it.  Rather than buckling down and dealing with it, we'll get far more denial and more whining for someone else to fix it.  Combined with FAR more anger and social unrest.  Which of course will further feed the downward spiral.  Need proof?  Explain why our black communities feel the need to vent anger over police shootings by burning black owned businesses in predominantly black neighborhoods?  Or explain why American steel a need to riot, loot, and burn when their favorite sports team looses the Stanley Cup?


Link Posted: 8/14/2015 11:10:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pangea:


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?


There is a lot of precedent for a short term increase in value (Deflation) followed by a long term, constant decrease in value (inflation) caused by massive new money creation.      This isn't even controversial.   Let common sense and history be your guide.      We can't predict the rate of the changes, but the overall process is as sure as death and taxes.  
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 1:10:01 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  And his spending power is dependent on cheap imported crap, low energy and food prices, and a fairly weak and vulnerable economic system.  

Here's how it works.  Joe Main Street buys a home.  It isn't a 900 sq footer with one bath like grandpa, grandma and the six kids bought in 1948.  Its a 2800 sq footer with two living rooms and three and a half baths.  Of course, its all financed.  and it isn't financed so its easy to pay off quickly.  Its "how big a house can I get for how small a payment", which means adjustable rates and 30 years.  He can pay for this.............. if rates stay low and he doesn't loose his job.  Any little economic bump, and its in foreclosure.  Of course, those bumps hit neighbors too, so 4 out of 10 houses on the street will have a for sale sign out on the lawn, and housing prices fall.  Its the housing market collapse from a half dozen years ago all over.

Given that many americans have NO net worth, and of those that do have net worth, most is tied up in housing , this means that a housing market bump burns up any accumulated wealth for many americans...

Americans also live fairly well because our actual hardcore costs for living are cheap.  We don't spend much on food and energy.  Sure, it seems like we do.  However, I bet most americans food budgets account for what, maybe 5-10% of their wages.  Compared to other countries,where food can be 20-30-40% or more of a budget, our food is cheap.  Same for energy.  We drive Suburbans, and Tahoes, and F250's and the like.  A family vehicle in most of the world is something much, much smaller.  Again, gas and energy seem expensive, but as a percent of our income, its small.

This stuff is cheap because we have a fairly strong dollar.  So far.  Relative to other currencies, ours is strong.  We can but foreign good cheap.  In the event of an economic crisis, out dollar can take a huge hit.  If and when our dollar tanks (which is getting likelier by the day, thanks to rampant spending by republicans, democrats and the Fed Reserve Bank), the cost of everything skyrockets.  What do youthink life will be like if the food budget for a family goes from 7% or income to , say 37%???  Given that most americans have NO extra money, this means something is going to collapse.  Again, we have a parallel.  Economies in post WW1 Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Zimbabwe and now Greece are feeling this. For that matter, ask grand dad about live during the Great Depression.  There were an awful lot of very skinny Americans back then.

Our whole supply and distribution systems is fragile and dependent.  It depends on just in time deliveries of everything from toilet paper and tampons to food, oil, and auto parts.  If there are price hikes in transportation costs its becomes fragile.  If economy weakens and the govt stops spending money on minimal infrastructure, things like bridges and ports start going downhill fast.As highways break down, its harder and more expensive to move stuff.  Most of our supplies  -food, groceries, etc -  moves through some reply impressive central distribution systems.  And these hubs are running right at the very edge of hyper efficiency.  We are talking 400-600 semi vans simultaneously unloading, and loading, moving product to shelves that will be sold 18 hours later.  There is NO back stock, no reserve.  When the economy takes a hit, or there is a dislocation, this system can fall in a hurry.  

What you'll likely get is a shortage of many goods, combined with severe price hikes  It will hit places and populations unevenly.  Got a place where everyone is dependent on social assistance?  Its going to get REALLY ugly fast.  These people arnet known as great planners, so I doubt they've got any r eserves squirreled away.  They've got the latest running shoes and proper athletic team sportswear and a great TV system but no food set aside.  When the shortages come, and prices spike, the welfare bums will find the checks done go far enough,.

Middle class america will get hit hard too.  It's hard to accept that you cannot take a family vacation this year.  And most won't want to sell the boat, or downsize the car. Most hang on to the lifestyle and debt and ride it right into foreclosure.  Its hard to feel like you are living  middle class life when the banks have foreclosed and there isn't money enough left over for food.  (remember the ladies in Jaguars and BMW's lined up at food closets during the housing crisis).

A lot of goods and services are going to go away.  And with it a lot of jobs.  Given we live in a service economy, unemployment will skyrocket.   Just look hard at the Great Depression, and you'll see some areas and populations got hit harder than others.  And very very few prospered.  I suspect that a coming economic downfall could easily outpace the Depression for severity and length.  I really don't think our current population is equipped to handle it.  Rather than buckling down and dealing with it, we'll get far more denial and more whining for someone else to fix it.  Combined with FAR more anger and social unrest.  Which of course will further feed the downward spiral.  Need proof?  Explain why our black communities feel the need to vent anger over police shootings by burning black owned businesses in predominantly black neighborhoods?  Or explain why American steel a need to riot, loot, and burn when their favorite sports team looses the Stanley Cup?


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+1 &
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 9:39:23 AM EDT
Bravo frozenny.  Most of the middle class will be wiped out.  It will be a repeat of 2008 but on a much greater scale.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 9:39:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:




Soooo...

Your Normalcy Bias has blocked your...

Comprehension ---of the arguably factual responses in this topic.




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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?




Soooo...

Your Normalcy Bias has blocked your...

Comprehension ---of the arguably factual responses in this topic.





Actually I was hoping for a step-by-step of the collapse; with accompany time table,  of what a quick a d dirty collapse would look like. A follow-up tutorial on a slow and lingering collapse as well.
Something like,  Day one/hour one banks don't open and people wonder why but aren't worried yet.......
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 10:00:20 AM EDT
Maybe some market savvy person could tell me what they think about this thought that I have been having.

When foreign investors start pouring monies into the American Stock Market in desperation to save their wealth, we will see a dramatic and definite boom that will be short lived and violently ended.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 10:31:39 AM EDT



Pretty much.. Everywhere...
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 10:40:30 AM EDT
Generally there is a bank holiday and market holiday.
Mad rush to the ATMs.
Rush on supermarkets.
After a week or so, banks  reopened but withdrawals will be limited.
A huge devaluation could happen as confidence is lost.  Here's an interview by Peter Schiff of James Rickards.  They talk about gold, crypto-currencies and confidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 2:29:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?
View Quote


background on predictions:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1726787__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Backyard_economist__a_question.html&page=1#i52512794

current prediction:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1762727_Get_ready_for_Market_Collapse_2_0_on_Monday.html

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 2:33:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By frozenny:
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  
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Originally Posted By frozenny:
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  


so personal debt is a bad thing.  got it.

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
There is a lot of precedent for a short term increase in value (Deflation) followed by a long term, constant decrease in value (inflation) caused by massive new money creation.      This isn't even controversial.   Let common sense and history be your guide.      We can't predict the rate of the changes, but the overall process is as sure as death and taxes.  


so it's a good time to acquire personal debt.  got it.

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 8/15/2015 4:07:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:


so personal debt is a bad thing.  got it.



so it's a good time to acquire personal debt.  got it.

ar-jedi

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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  


so personal debt is a bad thing.  got it.

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
There is a lot of precedent for a short term increase in value (Deflation) followed by a long term, constant decrease in value (inflation) caused by massive new money creation.      This isn't even controversial.   Let common sense and history be your guide.      We can't predict the rate of the changes, but the overall process is as sure as death and taxes.  


so it's a good time to acquire personal debt.  got it.

ar-jedi




I know you're the "Debt is Good" guy, and I used to be in agreement.  

However, I learned from experience, that your one dimensional thinking, glosses over Two critical factors:    First and Foremost, you have to be able to keep your job in order to service that debt.    

Second; The Time Value of your Money, or Asset purchased with debt, has to outstrip the interest rate of your debt, enough to compensate you for the stress of worrying about the First factor.    

There is nothing more horrifying than losing your good paying job, and realizing that all the other jobs available don't even pay enough to make your mortgage.    I don't blame you for not understanding.  No one ever thinks it will happen to them.     I didn't even have car payments, or payments on a $5000 couch.   Just a Mortgage.     And that was a time I never wish to revisit.  

Ironically, I'm taking on a large amount of debt today, but I'll be paying it down asafp.

Link Posted: 8/15/2015 6:30:57 PM EDT
Look at what other countries have gone through and are going through.



I expect pieces of all of that to come here to roost.



One thing about outlasting some other countries is that those with money will send it here to the stockmarket or housing market or other markets and try to preserve what they have.  Doing so will help prop our economy up a bit longer.



Just the fun europe is having with greece has me reconsidering all sorts of stuff.



In the game of duck duck goose the loose will be sitting on the winner's lap, and I honestly feel like chairs are being taken away from the game bit by bit.



And to some extent I think some folks will  head for the barter barns.  If they have most things paid for and can get by doing side work or repairing items for others or selling eggs or whatever their barter is going to be.  Officially the irs will say it wants its cut, but in the end the barter folks will eat first and argue with the irs later.



I do expect shipping delays and runs of stuff when it shows up, so better to have it than be chasing after it.  Hard to do for everything but if it is something you normally use then you might want your hands on it already.



Debt is money owed.  If you pay off your credit card each month for the rewards then you are not really what I am talking about.  Some folks chasing the walmart ar15 stuff are using their cards to float the pay date further out.  This works as long as they have their job.  If they lose their job, that item they floated the pay date on might need to be sold to pay it off.  Or something else get cut to pay the card.



Some folks do really well with debt.  Some don't do so well.  One group picking on the other accomplishes little.  Be honest with yourself and your house hold and deal accordingly.



Since most jobs do direct deposit then banks have a ton of customers.  But these days I see them as not a very safe place to hold money unless someone has a whole lot of money.  And if I had a whole lot of money it would be elsewhere than sitting in a savings or checking account.



In an economic collapse I expect people to actually be paid what they are worth.  And items to be bought and sold for what they are worth.



An video game station thing vs. a quarter of a cow.  Which gets the family through the winter?
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 8:01:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pangea:

Actually I was hoping for a step-by-step of the collapse; with accompany time table,  of what a quick a d dirty collapse would look like. A follow-up tutorial on a slow and lingering collapse as well.
Something like,  Day one/hour one banks don't open and people wonder why but aren't worried yet.......
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Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?




Soooo...

Your Normalcy Bias has blocked your...

Comprehension ---of the arguably factual responses in this topic.





Actually I was hoping for a step-by-step of the collapse; with accompany time table,  of what a quick a d dirty collapse would look like. A follow-up tutorial on a slow and lingering collapse as well.
Something like,  Day one/hour one banks don't open and people wonder why but aren't worried yet.......


See my post above for the first part of your request. Some folks may recall back during that Congressional investigation on the financial crisis of 2008 that one of the experts testifying indicated that the US economy was "within hours" of a complete so-called "full stop". What is meant by "full stop" in this context is that banks, financial institutions, and regular companies stop sending money outside their walls because they are not certain they will see what's owed to them on the incoming side. Trust breaks down because each thinks the other might be insolvent. When (well, really if) the "credit" market seizes up, no one can transact business. This is how a sudden collapse would occur (failing some major catastrophic natural or man-made disaster).

As for the slow boil, we are currently experiencing it. Real wages (nominal wages adjusted for inflation) have been stagnant since before the turn of the century and began a slow decline in the last decade. The number of full-time vs. part time workers has dropped <dramatically> and will continue to do so due primarily to Odumbocare, with a side order of worry about the economy in general. So, a long, slow decline would be evidenced by a continuing and accelerating inability for wages to keep pace with inflation, more and more temporary and part-time work and less and less of full-time job openings, more pressure to reduce wages in general (and to replace current workers with less expensive ones), more volatility since the Fed has managed to f-up the economy to the point of being largely unstable, probably a slow increase in violent crime, and a rapid increase in petty crime, and general all around suckiness. There is already evidence that the young people entering the workforce now will likely be the first generation since WWII to have a lower standard of living than their parents. Think about that for a minute and you realize the magnitude of the problem.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 8:14:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2015 8:16:08 PM EDT by EXPY37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BillofRights:



I know you're the "Debt is Good" guy, and I used to be in agreement.  

However, I learned from experience, that your one dimensional thinking, glosses over Two critical factors:    First and Foremost, you have to be able to keep your job in order to service that debt.    

Second; The Time Value of your Money, or Asset purchased with debt, has to outstrip the interest rate of your debt, enough to compensate you for the stress of worrying about the First factor.    

There is nothing more horrifying than losing your good paying job, and realizing that all the other jobs available don't even pay enough to make your mortgage.    I don't blame you for not understanding.  No one ever thinks it will happen to them.     I didn't even have car payments, or payments on a $5000 couch.   Just a Mortgage.     And that was a time I never wish to revisit.  

Ironically, I'm taking on a large amount of debt today, but I'll be paying it down asafp.

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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By frozenny:
The average american lives a fairly precarious financial existence, and doesn't know it.  He has a job, makes money, and it all looks pretty job by international standards.  We have homes, cars, and take vacations.  The problem is this:  His lifestyle is very much dependent on a few different factors.  One is debt.  Its a 'buy today, pay tomorrow' life.  


so personal debt is a bad thing.  got it.

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
There is a lot of precedent for a short term increase in value (Deflation) followed by a long term, constant decrease in value (inflation) caused by massive new money creation.      This isn't even controversial.   Let common sense and history be your guide.      We can't predict the rate of the changes, but the overall process is as sure as death and taxes.  


so it's a good time to acquire personal debt.  got it.

ar-jedi




I know you're the "Debt is Good" guy, and I used to be in agreement.  

However, I learned from experience, that your one dimensional thinking, glosses over Two critical factors:    First and Foremost, you have to be able to keep your job in order to service that debt.    

Second; The Time Value of your Money, or Asset purchased with debt, has to outstrip the interest rate of your debt, enough to compensate you for the stress of worrying about the First factor.    

There is nothing more horrifying than losing your good paying job, and realizing that all the other jobs available don't even pay enough to make your mortgage.    I don't blame you for not understanding.  No one ever thinks it will happen to them.     I didn't even have car payments, or payments on a $5000 couch.   Just a Mortgage.     And that was a time I never wish to revisit.  

Ironically, I'm taking on a large amount of debt today, but I'll be paying it down asafp.





I agree with both you and Ar-Jedi.

SOME debt is good...

During my lifetime I took on probably 5 MM in debt, not all at the same time, all of it for worthwhile purposes, and always with a planned graceful exit if the SHTF for me.

Always...

Most of my acquisitions though were self financed, especially later, altho I took on lesser debt still -for 'special' calculated reasons.


Debt for vacations, a lift kit and rims for the Brodozer, etc, that sort of debt might not be the best idea, -----although, most of the Sheeple incur TONS of it.


As always, a Serious of Purpose is helpful to determine what debt to take on.





Link Posted: 8/15/2015 8:22:47 PM EDT
I don't owe any debt and only have the regular bills to pay such as food, phones, utilities, insurance type stuff. My salary is pretty substantial and in the top 15% of wage earners in this country. I have acquired almost everything that a grownassed man should have at this point in his life. Tools, small farm, animals, knowledge on several trades of work.

Will it be enough to get us through the "hard times"? I'm betting my life and my family's lives as well on it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 9:10:45 PM EDT
In 2008 I lost my high paying job...lost my house...my truck...if I had a dog and lost it I would have lived a country song. It was a big adjustment for me. I cashed out some things I had and paid off all my debt and started over. I make less than what I did before but I have always risen to the challenge. Now I keep minimal debt on credit cards which I pay off every month. I have been looking for another home with land, close to where I live now. It was all a big adjustment, first time in my life I.had ever used unemployment. For three months before I took the first job I could get....low pay but I was working and paying my way. I still don't make as much as I did but I am not hurting either. I started stocking up on supplies in case it becomes necessary.
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 1:43:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pangea:
I don't owe any debt and only have the regular bills to pay such as food, phones, utilities, insurance type stuff. My salary is pretty substantial and in the top 15% of wage earners in this country. I have acquired almost everything that a grownassed man should have at this point in his life. Tools, small farm, animals, knowledge on several trades of work.

Will it be enough to get us through the "hard times"? I'm betting my life and my family's lives as well on it.
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That's all anyone can expect/hope for.


Link Posted: 8/16/2015 2:52:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By frozenny:
However, I bet most americans food budgets account for what, maybe 5-10% of their wages.  Compared to other countries,where food can be 20-30-40% or more of a budget, our food is cheap.

What do youthink life will be like if the food budget for a family goes from 7% or income to , say 37%???
View Quote

Not to be a stickler, but how in the world did you arrive at these numbers?

Let's say a middle class man or woman (single income) makes around $48,000/year (middle class is $25-75k, and I rounded off for easy math).  At $4000/month, lets assume the take-home is 75% after taxes (again, an assumption for easy math).  7% of that $3000 take home pay is $210, or $7 per day.  What sort of food budget works on $7/day for a family of 3-4?

An inexpensive lunch out runs us $12-15 for 4, and an inexpensive dinner out runs about $25-30.  My wife does the shopping, but I would guess an average dinner runs $15-20 cooked at home for 4 people.  I have to assume breakfast and lunch combined are at least as much as dinner, so I'd guess we spend at least $60-80/day to feed everyone at home - not including snacks (kids 7 and 8 yrs eat every 2-3 hours), eating out or any luxuries.  Granted, we don't eat rice and beans for a meal, and all of this is highly assumptive, but your number seems inordinately low even for a dual-income middle class family.
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 3:07:44 AM EDT
I've got a question about the bank holidays (for Fernando or anyone else familiar with historical/hypothetical examples).

Let's say the bank does have a "holiday".  And ATM's/cash withdrawals are unavailable or limited.  I believe the example in this thread suggested that credit cards would also not work.  What about debit cards - paying for purchases, not taking out cash?  What about check writing?  I'm assuming folks continue to pay the mortgage or rent, pay car payments, pay utility bills (for those still working, depending on the situation), etc.

Does the whole infrastructure stop working / clog up, or is it merely access to paper cash (fiat money)?
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 3:22:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pangea:


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?
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Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


No, nothing solid. Just the usual suspects spouting gloom and doom but there seems to be more and more of them lately.

I wonder if a sudden collapse happened would cash be more valuable do to bank closings and money shortages or would cash lose all value?


Yes, cash would be much more valuable during the initial stages because most people don't have a ready supply of it.  As things move on and we settle into the new normal of being a third world country your cash would buy less and less at the store.  That is when precious metals and or overseas investments (though by the time the USA bites the big one financially I doubt there will be anywhere else left that is worth investing in) to sell off in small bits or to trade foreign currency for devalued dollars to get you through.

I thank God that my family has no debts and while I have a low paying job it meets our monthly bills and allows us to save a bit each month, and for the time being even have some luxuries occasionally.  If/when a collapse happens I can easily lower my bills by dropping cable and switching out our cell phones for trac phones.  We can also quit using the A/C (living in FL though this will be the last "luxury" we give up) and set up a close line to cut use of the dryer to save on electricity.
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 9:29:46 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
So is there a time frame for all this, or is it just the great "gonna"?


background on predictions:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1726787__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Backyard_economist__a_question.html&page=1#i52512794

current prediction:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1762727_Get_ready_for_Market_Collapse_2_0_on_Monday.html

ar-jedi



Don't forget....

The stock market collapsed and cities have become death traps!

I realize this isn't really a "technical forum", but the constant "end is near" threads generate a lot of noise in relation to signal.  If the end really is near, your course of action is different than if there is no clear threat.  You actually hurt your preparedness if you are treating every day as if the collapse is imminent.

Link Posted: 8/16/2015 9:42:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By D_J:
I've got a question about the bank holidays (for Fernando or anyone else familiar with historical/hypothetical examples).

Let's say the bank does have a "holiday".  And ATM's/cash withdrawals are unavailable or limited.  I believe the example in this thread suggested that credit cards would also not work.  What about debit cards - paying for purchases, not taking out cash?  What about check writing?  I'm assuming folks continue to pay the mortgage or rent, pay car payments, pay utility bills (for those still working, depending on the situation), etc.

Does the whole infrastructure stop working / clog up, or is it merely access to paper cash (fiat money)?
View Quote



In Greece, credit cards still work, and electronic transfers still work.  Of course that runs counter to what a lot of people want to believe, so it gets ignored a lot.    Not sure how it played out in other places, so YMMV.  Personally, I prefer to keep lines of credit in various forms open just to be on the safe side.  I use cash as little as possible since in the even of a collapse, it may be hard to come by.  It's a bad policy to drive around on your spare tire.
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 12:28:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea:
I hear the warnings and dire predictions of a pending collapse of our economy due to either outside influence or domestic stupidity.

What does it really mean to the daily goings on of the average American?

Does it mean that goods will be so expensive as to be out of reach of all but the most wealthy or will it mean that nothing is to be had at any price?


I'm wondering what a typical day would be like.   Everyone stays home and suffers or will it only effect certain portions of the population?
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Have you been watching the economy in Greece collapse?  Well pretend that Greece got no "Bail-out" and that's what it would be like here.
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 3:32:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:



In Greece, credit cards still work, and electronic transfers still work.  Of course that runs counter to what a lot of people want to believe, so it gets ignored a lot.    Not sure how it played out in other places, so YMMV.  Personally, I prefer to keep lines of credit in various forms open just to be on the safe side.  I use cash as little as possible since in the even of a collapse, it may be hard to come by.  It's a bad policy to drive around on your spare tire.
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By D_J:
I've got a question about the bank holidays (for Fernando or anyone else familiar with historical/hypothetical examples).

Let's say the bank does have a "holiday".  And ATM's/cash withdrawals are unavailable or limited.  I believe the example in this thread suggested that credit cards would also not work.  What about debit cards - paying for purchases, not taking out cash?  What about check writing?  I'm assuming folks continue to pay the mortgage or rent, pay car payments, pay utility bills (for those still working, depending on the situation), etc.

Does the whole infrastructure stop working / clog up, or is it merely access to paper cash (fiat money)?



In Greece, credit cards still work, and electronic transfers still work.  Of course that runs counter to what a lot of people want to believe, so it gets ignored a lot.    Not sure how it played out in other places, so YMMV.  Personally, I prefer to keep lines of credit in various forms open just to be on the safe side.  I use cash as little as possible since in the even of a collapse, it may be hard to come by.  It's a bad policy to drive around on your spare tire.

Thanks. The financial system locking up is a much more drastic situation than not being able to get paper/cash money from the bank.
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