Tactical Response will be coming back to Racine County Line Rifle Club in Racine WI. August 28-29, 2010 for Fighting Pistol Mobile to be followed by Fighting Rifle Mobile August 30-31

These classes provide excellent, relevant, realistic training for experienced shooters as well as gun owners just starting out.  If you own a pistol or rifle (or both!) for self defense, you owe it to yourself to take these classes.


Sign Up for Racine Fighting PISTOL HERE

Sign Up for Racine Fighting RIFLE HERE











Racine Class Logistical Information (Location, Hotels, ect.)  NOTE:  The Racine County Line Rifle Club charges a $25 per day range fee that must be paid the first day of each class to a range liaison.  If you are a range member, you will be reimbursed the full fee.


Fighting Pistol
From the class description: Fighting Pistol Mobile


The root word to "gunfight" isn't "gun".         It's "FIGHT!"

This is the course everyone is talking about! It is the most comprehensive 2-day handgun class in the world. This course is literally a life saver. Our Fighting Pistol course prepares you to prevail in a real world violent confrontation and many students have gone on and done just that! This intensive course covers an incredible amount of material in just two days and we have been told that it covers more than any 5 day course at the "big schools".

Topics include the role and attributes of the handgun, legal aspects of deadly force, anatomical stopping power, mental conditioning for combat, movement and communication. Live fire drills include both one- and two-handed shooting, shooting on the move, use of cover and concealment, loading and reloading, using both eye level as well as retention techniques, at a variety of ranges and from a variety of body positions. This course is about 40% lecture on mindset, tactics, skill, and legal issues but don’t worry because you will still be shooting a minimum of 750 rounds while you are on the range!

We respectfully request that students have read "The Principles of Personal Defense" by Jeff Cooper before attending class. If possible we also recommend “Surgical Speed Shooting” by our friend Andy Stanford. These and many other items from our gear list are available at www.TacticalResponse Gear.com.



For more information about our classes and to read hundreds of student reviews loaded with pictures and video clips join our web forum www.GetOffTheX.com.
You can also see Tactical Response's videos on Youtube:
Fighting Pistol Trailer on YouTube

2 Days/$450

Equipment List:
-ONE (1) OPEN MIND
-A Fighting Pistol
-Bring a lunch to the range both days
-Please check on Range Fee's ($25/Day payable to range liaison 1st day of class)
-1000 rounds of quality ammo
- Strongside belt holster (We do not allow Blackhawk Serpa holsters. Please read our FAQ for more information).
-Eye and ear protection (muffs recommended)
-Sturdy gun belt (double thickness)
-Minimum of five magazines
-Magazine pouch
-Raingear (We shoot rain or shine)
-Hat and sunblock
-Knee and elbow pads (optional)
-Drinking water (Camelback strongly recommended)
-Bug Spray
-Pen and paper





Fighting Rifle

From the class description: Fighting Rifle Mobile


Details:
You know how to shoot your rifle or subgun now let us teach you how to FIGHT with it! This course is far more advanced than any other rifle course you can attend (with the exception of our advanced course) and covers trajectory, battlesight zero, gear set-up, sling configurations, transitions to pistol, use of cover and concealment, practical ready and firing positions, close- and medium-range snap shooting, weapons handling, urban applications, team drills, firing while moving, multiple targets, plus the tactics required to employ this potent tool in combat. Every student leaves this class with empty mags, a red hot rifle, and a smile from ear to ear! This is one of our most popular courses.
This class is great for nearly any magazine fed rifle or subgun and any traditional military style rifle. We will show you how to run your MP5, AR, AK, RPK, FAL, M1A, G3, VZ-58 or whatever weapon you have!

AR-15 shooters take note: We do not recommend steel cased ammo for our classes. Please check our FAQ for more information.

We respectfully request that students have read "The Principles Of Personal Defense" by Jeff Cooper before attending class. This and many other items from our gear list are available at Tactical Response Gear Store.

For more information about our classes and to read hundreds of student reviews loaded with pictures and video clips join our web forum www.GetOffTheX.com.

You can also see Tactical Response's Rifle videos on Youtube:
Fighting Rifle Trailer on YouTube
Clips from a Fighting Rifle class on YouTube


2 Days/$450

Equipment List:
-ONE (1) OPEN MIND
-Please check on Range Fee's ($25/Day payable to range liaison 1st day of class)
-Bring a lunch to the range both days
-1500 rounds rifle ammunition
- A magazine fed rifle (semi or full) that has been zeroed (Pistol caliber carbines are ok)
-250 rounds pistol ammo and a fighting pistol
-Tactical sling (required)
-Weapon cleaning and lubrication equipment
- Strongside belt holster (We do not allow Blackhawk Serpa holsters. Please read our FAQ for more information).
- Full wrap eye and ear protection (muffs recommended)
-Sturdy gun belt (designed to carry a gun)
-Minimum of 3 pistol and 5 rifle magus
-Magazine pouches for pistol and rifle (pockets are fine for rifle mags)
-Raingear (We shoot rain or shine)
-Hat and sunblock
-Knee and elbow pads (optional)
-Drinking water (Camelback Strongly Recommended)
-Bug Spray
-Pen and paper


View the complete Tactical Response Schedule on their Website HERE

I still can't believe they won't allow Blackhawk Serpa Holsters.

Did you read the FAQ?  There are good reasons IMHO.  If you like the overall Blackhawk design, you can get the non-serpa Blackhawk holster

There was this recent thread over in the AR15.com Handgun - Accessories forum regarding Blackhawk Serpa Holsters and a guy posted This Video from (I think) a MDFI Class that points out just one reason why the SERPA is frowned upon by lots of trainers that end up seeing a lot of rounds go downrange every year.  -shrug-

Yes, I read the FAQ.  

Who are the other trainers who will not allow this holster?

I have not done force on force training, but fail to see how...if used PROPERLY, and trained in its' application, why this holster needs to be deemed so unsafe that it is banned from some trainer's classes?   I don't see why, b/c of some people's fuckup with this holster, it is now the holster's fault.

I mean, for kriminy sake, we're shooting firearms people.  Don't pull the fuggin trigger until you are ready to fire.

By the logic put forth in the FAQ, a GLOCK could certainly be deemed too dangerous as when one clears the holster a trigger press under stress will fire the weapon.  We don't hear this b/c it comes down to proper training and safety rules which....if strictly adhered to render the Glock a "safe" weapon.

I guess my question boils down to this....why not train people in the proper use and implementation of this holster instead of an outright ban?  I am just a novice shooter, (not trying to shit stir) but I fail to see the connection between this holster being any more unsafe than many other firearm related devices.....when used properly.

SORRY, for derailing this thread, this is just a question that has nagged me for some time.

If I had the coin, I would be trying to attend this course....without my Serpa of course.  If you are the man responsible for bringing them here to WI, my sincere thanks for bringing some great training opportunities.  I hope the class fills up quickly!

Many won't allow this holster. It is a bad design. I know the best safety is between your ears but in a stressful situation it is a bad holster. I know   Gabe Suarez won't allow them and he is anything but a range nazi.
Seems like pushing on a place you do not want to push in about .5 sec is asking for trouble.     Just my .02 cents

i'm itching to take a carbine course. i had my heart set on one of sully's courses.
but sadly, no dates at RCLRC so far this year.

i'm a babe in the woods when it comes to this stuff. i really don't know who's who in the tactical world.
i never heard of this tactical response company.
any third party info on them? links? reviews? etc...
has anyone from the WIHTF attended any of their courses?

what say you arfcom?

BTW: i chose the safariland ALS holster over the SERPA.

I generally think that a good number of instructors won't ban SERPAs because they're an incredibly popular holster.  Seems like nearly everyone owns one and on paper, the concept of a cheap OWB retention holster for CCW sounds great so lots of guys get them.


Todd Green of Pistol Training.com says the following for his classes:
• Duty, range, or concealment holster with suitable gunbelt (SERPA holsters strongly discouraged)


Sully of Defensive Edge and SLR15 had the following to say on his forum www.TacticalReality.com  (you have to register to read that forum)

The Blackhawk SERPA holster can be problematic. I had some Canadian Mounties attend a class I was teaching in Reno at the IALEFI conference. We were shooting from all sorts of positions in the desert. What resulted was a SERPA holter getting jambed full of enough earth that his Glock couldn't be removed. We had to beat the handgun from the holster. Look at something different, some like the Safariland SLS, my preference for a duty belt is the Safariland SSIII 070.

CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"



From: MSG Paul R. Howe (retired)  Oct 2005 Newsletter

BLACKHAWK SERPA HOLSTER
I have witnessed and been informed of several problems with this holster. First, it is carbon fiber holster with a trigger finger push button unlocking device. Two officers in my last Tactical Pistol Instructor course could not make the times from the draw with this holster. The push-button mechanism was difficult to index/find under stress and even after six days, they still had problems.
Another problem brought to my attention from a recent student was tactical training problem. During a scenario, he exerted excessive pressure from his trigger finger to the unlock button and when drawing the weapon, drug the finger along the holster and into the trigger guard, discharging the airsoft weapon prematurely into his leg during his draw sequence.
Trigger fingers are just that, for the trigger. I think it should remain straight and have one function, to index the trigger. The current thumb break snap or hood is the way to go.


From MDFI Training  -  "Please note: We will no longer allow Serpa holsters in class."

Local Austin Tx Training company bans them

Tom Givens of Rangemaster is not a fan.

Suarez Training Bans Them

John Murphey of FPF Training in VA Bans them as well

(Secondhand) Student from a Louis Awerbuck said he didn't like them during a Handgun class in April of 2008 Link

I was at a Magpul Carbine Class where Chris Costa said he didn't like the Serpa. As he stated in this thread

From Firearmz Blog:
"The Georgia Public safety Training Center has banned the use of all Blackhawk Serpa Holster or any other holster that has a retention release mounted over the trigger. Negligent discharges had lead to that decision as if it would be a surprise to anyone. A real rocket scientist had to design that."

I've heard that John Farnam bans them in his classes but haven't confirmed it...

Andy Stanford, (author of Surgical Speed Shooting and trainer with OPSinc) bans them.

 

Thanks for the info guys and for not pounding on me.   I understand better now why these are not a great option for a combat holster. (especially because of the fact that it can malf. due to debris freezing up the mech.)  That I think is the best reason not to use this holster.

I still feel, when used properly, and when it works properly it will work and is safe.  Where it seems the problem comes in is on the two way range....used under extreme stress and extreme conditions....things often don't work as they should.....and that includes the operator.  

I think a lot of people have found themselves with this holster (myself included) due to it's pricing and availability. I'll leave it for occaisonal range use. Thanks.

Tag for any updates



I too have a Blackhawk SERPA, and I really like it for the range.  It works great for me so far, with light use.

But now that I keep on reading bad things about them, I may try something else.  



I really liked the paddle that comes with it, is there another paddle holster that would work better?

Am also thinking about a supertuck, but obviously that wont work too well since it is IWB and we have no CCW.

I don't think Greg is planning on having any classes at Racine in 2010.



Many folks here have taken classes from both training outfits (including me).  Tactical Response is good people and good training.

Sully, FMD, thanks for your input. I really appreciate it!

Seriously mulling this one over.

Ouch ..$25 a day range fee......little bit of a gouge there....

Cost doing business/ displacing potentially 600 people.

of Used to be $10 till teh wrong people got rubbed the wrong way.

Get Real thats cheap enuff like it or not, members get it refuned most gun store ranges are 12 bucks and up for a hour.

HKMP5A2



Bullshit.. it's a gouge plain and simple.. at least admit it...But hey..it's your club...

It was only $10 not even a month ago for the Appleseed.




oh well.





 

$10/day not for profit, $25/day for profit.

Lots more to say, none of it good.  We'll just leave it at that.

I guess the club figures  if all those TR class attendees can afford  the course tuition and the ammo there in a much better position to pay it... vs. the Appleseed which is attended by more folks with less money to throw around... really say's a lot about them....Sad...

this thread is about the class not the club.
wanna knock the club? start a thread about it.
got a beef with some of it's members? start a thread about it.

some of us are looking for some input about the class and the instructors.

Can we have a discussion of the $25/day range fee in another thread please?

I'm not a fan of the fee either but it's the range's policy and is fully reimbursed for range members.  



ETA: polymorpheous beat me to it LOL

I can answer any questions.  

I've gunned with TR alumni, and been impressed with their gun handling skills.

Since Defensive Edge won't be in Wisconsin this summer, we need to look at getting a chedderhead roadtrip to a Princeton class.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Tommy

Can I hope to see you and your sidekick in Racine for these 4 days of training?  Maybe you can even convince FMD to shoot them too.

Brian

Thanks for inviting me. And I thought we bonded at that arfcom dinner in Oshkosh, foolish me...

I'd love to make it. I'm in San Antonio right now, helping my mother who is dealing with some health issues. Flying back in to Madison tomorrow, but I'll probably be coming back here soon. Not sure what the next few months holds.

Regardless, we need to catch up soon. It's been too long.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Sorry to hear that DE will not be coming here. I might be interested in a road trip.
I will be signing up for the TR pistol class. Not sure about the carbine class yet.

Bump.

Sign up sooner rather than later. :-)

BUMP - We need more signups to make this class happen.  

In for both!

You get some of your co workers to sign up yet?

I'm in for the pistol.  Wish I could do both, but don't have the scratch for the tuition and all that ammo for both classes...lol

ETA:  If anyone in the Janesville area wants to hitch a ride to the class, shoot me a PM.

Lets keep the sign ups going.

BTT - We've still got some slots left - sign up now  

Bump - last chance to sign up for these classes.

We are all set for 4 great days of training.



-Mike

We're all set for 2 excellent classes at Racine County Line Rifle Club.

1) RANGE FEE
Remember there is a $25/day range fee - please bring $50 cash to the class so we can pay the range for the use of their facilities.  Brian Holmes will collect the cash before class begins.  
-If you are a range member, you will be reimbursed the $25/day fee.  Contact Kay to be reimbursed.

2) TRAVEL TIME
The range can take awhile to get to, so allow extra time so everyone is on the line, ready to START at 9am.

3) SPEED
PLEASE obey the speed limit signs posted on Michna Rd. (35mph) and on the range roads (10mph).  We are guests of the range and want to be invited back. Police occasionally use Michna Rd. as a speed trap.

4) 25 METER RANGE LOCATION
The classes are scheduled to take place on the 25 meter range - the Range that is furthest East at the facility.  Follow the range road to the very end near the large berm.

5) PARKING
Some cars will be able to park behind the firing line.  If there is no room behind the firing line, unload your gear and park in the lot by the covered 100 yard range.  We can NOT permit the range road to be blocked as we must have easy access in and out of the range in case of an emergency.

6) WATER
There is NO WATER at the range so baby-wipes and bottled water / gallon jugs of water are the way to go.  Remember to pre-hydrate.  There is no shade at the 25 meter range.

7) FOOD
Ideally, people should bring their lunch and drinks so we can get the most out of every training day. If you do go off-site for food, please hurry back asap and allow extra time for traffic, etc.

-There is a gas station - with all the usual gas station food to eat and drink - about 10 minutes away.

Ayras Gas Station‎
7100 Douglas Avenue
Racine, WI 53402-9720
(262) 681-7950
ayras.com‎


-There's also a McDonalds about 20 minutes south of the range as well as a Cousins Sub Shop

McDonalds‎
5125 Douglas Avenue, Racine, WI 53402-2029
(262) 681-9962

Cousins Subs
5131 Douglas Avenue, Racine, WI 53402-2080
(262) 681-1101‎


-There is a Subway Sandwich Shop 20 minutes away to the North of the range.

Subway‎
10670 South Chicago Road
Oak Creek, WI 53154-6608
(414) 762-6707



8) GUN PARTS,
There is no gear store at the range. There IS a gun store located 15 minutes away:
Shooters Sports Center
4900 6 Mile Road, Racine, WI‎
(262) 681-1040‎

There are Dick's Sporting Goods, Wal Mart and Gander Mountains all within 45 minutes of the range.

Alumni will be there with tools, etc. to fix any issues.


9) RANGE WEBSITE
The range's Website is:
http://my.rclrc.net/

Map of the range facility:
http://my.rclrc.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32:rclrc-range-description&catid=5:publicnotices&Itemid=2


10) BATHROOMS
There are multiple porta-johns located at the range.


11) QUESTIONS:
If you have any range-related questions or concerns, please contact me.

For emphasis, as some folks don't seem to get it.

I anticipate everyone will have a good class.

Thanks to everyone that attended and especially to FMD for helping keep things flowing smoothly.

If anyone attended the class and wants to repost their review here as well as on GOTX, go for it.  

You will have to register to read the reviews but it's pretty painless.

Racine Fighting RIFLE Review Posted HERE


 

Racine Fighting PISTOL Review Posted HERE