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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 10:09:58 AM EDT
This should be good.

My brother-in-law is looking for a new 1911 for his duty weapon and really wants a Kimber Warrior. He has also been looking at the Wilsons, but has a hard time justifying the price. He asked me if I could see a $1000 worth of difference in the two pistols. I really didn't have a good answer. He already owns two Kimbers and shoots them really well and is having a hard time convincing himself a Wilson will shoot a $1000 better.

So aside from the MIM parts difference, what makes a Wilson Combat a $1000 better than the Kimber Warrior?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:00:58 AM EDT
Justify the cost difference? OK, contact a reutable pistolsmith and inquire about fitting the replacement parts ans installing a new barrel. There you have it. I am not a fan of Kimber or Wilson, but in todays market, $1000 gets you a good frame, slide, and barrel. Anything else is icing on the cake.

damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:11:03 AM EDT
I own two 1911s right now, a Wilson Service Grade Protector and a Kimber pre-Series II. Both are great guns, and both shoot equally as well. The Wilson is more refined. Its smoother and locks up more solidly and just has a more solid feel to it. Thats expected with the level of attention its recieved over the Kimber. I have and would carry either without hesitation.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:57:24 PM EDT
Contact member MT_Pockets. He is a Wilson Combat Master Dealer and has the best prices I've found on new Wilsons. As for 5" 1911s, among others I have a Kimber Warrior and three Wilsons (2 CQBs and a two-tone Protector). Wilson customer service is much better in my experience. The fit, feel and function of the Wilsons are superior IMO than the Kimbers. I suggest a CQB, the new ones they're turning out these days are fine 1911s. Again, IM MT_Pockets and discuss it with him. The CQB can be had for less than $2000 (around $1700). I would rather have one Wilson CQB or Protector than two Kimber Warriors.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:52:06 PM EDT
The difference is 1 hole group @ 25 yards or 3 inch group at 25 yards. If you shoot competition, you need the accuracy. The money goes to fitting a match grade barrel and good trigger. For duty/self defense, 3 inches @25 yards kills em just as dead!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:59:23 PM EDT
Honestly, I'm not enamored of either. I like custom stuff, because of the attention to detail. A wilson is basically a kimber with extra hand fitting. It still has a bunch of MIM, and its still not really custom. I would buy a kimber or springfield and send it to a good gunsmith. The cost would be similar to a wilson, but with better components and fitting.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:14:47 PM EDT
I love my POS Wilson that has never malfunctioned or broken with thousands of rounds through it.

But frankly, Im white trash and dont live up to the snooty standards some days
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:20:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I love my POS Wilson that has never malfunctioned or broken with thousands of rounds through it.

But frankly, Im white trash and dont live up to the snooty standards some days



I would never question what you carry Lumpy, but I think there are better guns for the money. A Wilson runs about what 15-1800? I can get a well built Yo-Bo for that, or more work done by a less reknowned shop. Personally, I'd have to follow AJohnstons lead in semi-customs, his Les Baer has 35,000 problem free rounds through it (and 2 malfunctions).

I've seen your pistol before, Lumpy, and I know that you use it, and it works. I am just suggesting a different route. The biggest difference between semi-production and a custom is the 3-4 month wait for a 1*.

BTW-My brothers Kimber Stainless II has 5,000 rounds through it and the extractor has been the only problem.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:26:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I love my POS Wilson that has never malfunctioned or broken with thousands of rounds through it.

But frankly, Im white trash and dont live up to the snooty standards some days






damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:29:54 PM EDT
I bought this one from a board member for around $1400:

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:37:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Honestly, I'm not enamored of either. I like custom stuff, because of the attention to detail. A wilson is basically a kimber with extra hand fitting. It still has a bunch of MIM, and its still not really custom. I would buy a kimber or springfield and send it to a good gunsmith. The cost would be similar to a wilson, but with better components and fitting.



Not as far as I know.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:56:21 PM EDT
Last I heard, a significant number of CQB components were MIM, to include the ignition set.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:36:39 AM EDT
If you're talking $2,000 for a Wilson I think there are better options for that kind of money. IMO it's a lot of money for a semi-custom gun.

- Sportingarms.com has Les Baer Eclipse II's on sale and also the Thunder Ranch at a good price, neither of these would be over $1,600.
- You can get a Rock River Basic Carry (I think it's called) from Adco Arms for about $1,600.
- A Springfield Professional can be had for about the same price as the Wilson.
- Last but certainly not least, you can get a Yost-Bonitz 1*, a true custom gun. Depending on the finish level you can either save a couple hundred or spend a couple hundred more. The only thing you'd be giving up here would be night sights, but you'd have a firearm that is in my opinion superior to the ones listed above. I have a 1* Elite and it's exceeded my expectations in every way.

The Kimber will go boom every time and give tactical accuracy that should be sufficient for law enforcement. He could spend the money he saves on training, ammo or another gun.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:56:23 AM EDT
FWIW, Wilson's frames and slides are made by Kimber.


For what a WC gun is, there's a lot of other custom and semi-custom shops out there that are every bit as good, maybe even better, for less money.


BTW, Eclipse II's are made by Kimber, not Les Baer (you're thinking the Premier II).
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:08:42 AM EDT
I own 2 Kimbers, a Custom Stainless & a Pro TLE/RL.
Very happy with both. I'd like to get a Wilson or Baer but don't have the $$$.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:11:28 AM EDT
Thanks Mall Ninja, I did mean Premier II. I did own an Eclipse Pro II and wouldn't recommend it to another shooter.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 9:04:29 AM EDT
I think he should stay with the Kimber. If he has faith in it, he should stick with it. Personally though, I like Springfield.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:22:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 11:29:47 AM EDT by Face_N_The_Crowd]
Damian or Lumpy or anyone that can answer the questions:

My understanding is the following:

WC up until very recently did use Kimber frames and slide - they no longer do - I do not know if this means they use someone else's or if the turn them out in house.

WC up until very recently did make extensive use of MIM in their lesser priced (if you can say such a thing) models (CQB specifically). However they are now making MIMless guns across the board.

WC used to use a formulation of Armor Tuff that was nicknamed Armor Scuff b/c it flat sucked. However they have altered the formulation and it is substantially better now.

My $0.02 worth of drivel:

A. It is your life - shoot / carry what you want.

B. I have seen a WC in a match - it did great - I have only seen one WC in a match - ever. (and this means exactly nothing other than I am probably not that well traveled)

C. I have seen a WC in a shop - it was impressed upon me that if a manufacturer paints their guns they do not have to do as much metal prep work as if they were blued.

D. Kimber makes extensive use of MIM to this day.

E. Having owned Kimber, Baer, and Brown - I can honestly say it is less about how it looks - than how it works and what you paid for it to work like and look like it does.

F. What you pay for something does not necessary reflect what it is worth - ie I bought a Brown - now that was over priced..... and talk about a group that touts finsh accuacy yada yada - pretty much average across the board - and BTW I have never seen a Brown at a match or even heard about a Brown at a match - again I am probably just not that well traveled.

G. If I were in the market for a new 1911 I personally would look toward RRA - if they still have their 'parked' special going - that is deal.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:31:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:19:43 PM EDT
Although I like my Wilsons, I'll have to say that the ADCO/RRA 1911 @ $1525 is a helluva gun for what you get.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:41:58 PM EDT
I have a Kimber Pro TLE/RLII and a Wilson Professional. The Wilson is better than the Kimber in quality, performance, and appearance. Is it $1,000 better? No. But remember the 80/20 rule - the first 80% of performance and quality costs 20% and the last 20% costs 80%. Or as the old hot rod builder said "Speed costs money - how fast you wanna go?". I plan on keeping both the Kimber and the Wilson (along with my first 1911, an SA Mil-Spec) and enjoy shooting each one.

By the way, does anyone know if it is possible to own too many 1911s? I'll keep investigating and report back my findings - if I ever finish my research.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:42:15 PM EDT
I have a friend who has a Wilson CQB. I must say that it is a nice pistol, but no nicer than My Kimber Super Match. Which was $600 less. It is also not as accurate as my Kimber Classic Custom, which was $1400 less.

If you really want to start a flame war, try comparing the Wilson ARs with RRA ARs.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:53:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 11:03:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 11:05:36 AM EDT by semi45]
I don't have an answer housands
I think you can get that spending less than $2,000 but that's a IMHO.



Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:41:56 PM EDT
I have not been in to fancy 1911, Like Lumpy I'm poor white trash, But my Springer Mil-Spec, is very utilitarian. All mim parts removed and good crisp trigger, accuracy is about 2 1/2 inches @ 25 yard. the hammer is bobbed and Wilson safety. I would not trade this gun for anything. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I will not look down on anyone who has a Charles Daly, or look up to anybody with a Larry Vicker's Custom. I have seen some awesome 1911 on this sight. But just as happy with my beater.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:35:19 AM EDT
Tell him to get a Vickers, then he wont have to buy anymore 1911s...

Seriously, I would buy the Kimber over the wilson, if youre worried about mim parts then build a shopping cart with midway or brownells and order replacements, if he cant do the work himself then take it to a smith. Im sure with labor he will have saved money over the Wilson, maybe even throw in a fitted bushing and tighten up the groups a bit if hes worried about accuracy. That is what I would do.
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