[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 4 of 12)
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Quoted: Is there any advancement in hydrogen based technology for years and automobiles that I'm not aware of? I believe the California mandate states that a vehicle could be powered using hydrogen. I'm not sure what capacity that means. I was curious if anybody knows anything worthwhile in that regard? CA mandates green energy they don’t care how, last I talked to CARB they where aware of 479 zero emission cars, something like 470 are EV. The industry decided EV to get there, not CARB. Toyota is probably 5 of the other 9 with hydrogen which is a meme unless you have to have long range. Green hydrogen is made with electricity and will burn vastly more electricity then an EV to do the same, it will never be cheaper then EV. Most hydrogen is for ships, trains and 18 wheelers long term not passenger cars. Though I’m sure there will be some. |
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Quoted: I see charging stations of 2 or 4 and rarely 6 spots at a highway service stop. they each take 3-40 minutes to charge in a parking lot that has 50-100 cars in it with a gas station that has 10-12 pumps. It takes 5 minutes to pump 20 gallons of gas. That is roughly 12 cars per hour per pump x 10 pumps so a capacity to refill 120 cars per hour. Now figure out how charging stations they need to charge 120 EVs per hour: say 30 minutes per charge , all fast chargers, Each charger can do 2 cars per hour. So you need 60 chargers. A model S has a 90kwhr battery, so charging 2 model S cars takes 180 KWhrs in an hour. 180 KW x 60 chargers is 10,800 Kilowatts or 10,800,000 watt per hour. That is 10.8 megawatts. LOL. To match the 'refuel' capacity in charging stations on the highway to that of current highway gas stations, you will need a high voltage transmission to run close to the station and then a substation to step down the voltage to and then The only solution is to not have individual travel. I'm sure a prime feature of this entire scheme is if you can manage to afford electric they will make the logistics so obnoxious and inconvenient that you'll voluntarily restrict your movement and learn to do without... all the while selling what an incredible Disneyland experience it is on paper! |
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Quoted: This seems like a fairly obvious factor that should have been accounted for prior to the purchase of that vehicle. Why are people so dumb? A VERY, VERY LARGE portion of the American population have poor critical thinking skills, and behaviors such as choosing an EV without considering all the ramifications thereof are only one example of that lack of such skills. What's worse is that much of our elected "leadership" are equally lacking in the same skills, yet make decisions that impact all of us. |
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Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Very true. However, very few people can afford to buy a special purpose vehicle. One would have to have a road trip/extended trip/vacation vehicle like some flavor if ICE SUV or minivan, and pickup truck to home projects, and one or more EVs for commuting to/from work. Makes no sense, and no vehicle will do all of those well. Therefore people will compromise since they can afford only 1 or 2 cars. That's how you end up with EV owners stuck with a dead battery on a road trip, or people commuting to/from their office job in pickup truck. Since being stuck in a rote location in a EV in winter is a safety concern for multiple reasons, most will just live with the inefficiency of the ICE. |
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Petroleum made the US the greatest economic juggernaut this world has ever seen. This hard push to EVs, under the false guise of "saving the planet", is a castration if that power. Simple as that. We are an enormous country. First it was the freedom of the open range via horse, then coal fired trains/rail, then it was the fredom of the car and the open road. EVs are a corral being installed by the CCP and their paid lickspittles. Simple as that. Don't believe that? "All your (earth-raping, child labor mined) rare earth minelels berong to us!" |
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GM sent me a survey about electric vehicles. 4 questions into the survey, they no longer desired my opinion. Their assumptions regarding charging stations were unrealistic and were a big non starter for me. 30 minute charging times and extra charging stations were unreasonable assumptions on their part |
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What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. |
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Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. 100 years ago, you could throw a couple cheap gas cans in a rack on the back of the car for when you needed to go where there wasn't a gas station. This could easily (and quickly) double the range of your car before needing to find a gas station. I would like to see you add a meaningful amount of range with add on battery packs without costing a significant amount of the price of the vehicle. Aside from the cost, it would then a considerable amount of time to charge both the car and add-on battery pack. |
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Quoted: My guess is, you will be proven utterly and completely wrong about that. Nuclear power is non-starter. There is currently no other option. The population may warm up to the idea once energy costs continue to increase, becomes unaffordable, and employment and industry are affected. The issue is that the plants take so long to construct and become profitable that building as needed will not work. The US needs inexpensive energy if we wish to be competitive in the world market manufacturing base. We (as a country) have aluminum and steel plants shuttered because of energy costs. Our manufacturing base has fled because of the lack of profitability due to regulation and energy costs. If you can not make the basic materials that form the basis of manufacturing you can not grow the country. |
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Quoted: Absolutely ICE isnt going anywhere for quite some time. EVs will work perfectly for the vast majority of drivers. Not if the Govenor of NY has her way. I know poeple that are buying spare oil furnances to tuck away since NY is banning their use in the years to come. |
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Quoted: I think you have it backwards, until they make another generational improvement (or two) in battery tech long hauls won't be viable. The goal posts always move though, GD said for awhile "Until they can go 300 miles on a charge, I won't get one"....they can go 300 miles now and the argument is now "Untill I can recharge one in 5 minutes I won't get one" What happens when they can charge much faster than is possible now? What will the next requirement be? I get it, I don't like government forcing tech either, it's how we ended up with early 2000's diesel engines, which were a mess....but you can't argue that currently available diesel engines are somehow worse for most applications than older ones. They are quieter, stronger, and safer to work around. My point being, I'm on the thruway on a long distance trip been sing AC and playing the radio so I didn't get the 300 mile average like I'm supposed to. So I pull into a charging station to "fill up" If I have to wait 30 mnutes for someone to charge and get out of the way then charge my own vehicle for 30 minuts thats a lot if time. When EVs can fast charge in a few minutes I'll but one if they're affordable. Oh, how much is t to replace the battery? I can put an engine in a car pretty easily not so sure I can do a battery. |
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Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. |
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So i finished the article. But the cliff notes is that it's not the EV's but the nut behind the wheel that are the problem. YouTube personality Steve Hammes leased a Hyundai Kona Electric sport utility vehicle for his 17-year-old daughter Maddie for three reasons: it was affordable, practical and allowed Maddie to put her cash toward college, not fuel. Now, the upstate New York resident has a dilemma many EV owners can relate to: finding available charging stations far away from home. "We're going through the planning process of how easily Maddie can get from Albany to Gettysburg [College] and where she can charge the car," Hammes told ABC News. There isn't a good software tool that helps EV owners plan their trips." Voelcker said he's seen little improvement in the nation's charging infrastructure in the last four years and frequently hears complaints of dead chargers and sticky cables. Quiroga of Car and Driver said the "teething pains" EV owners previously experienced have greatly improved. "Where we are now versus 10 years ago -- it's radically different," he said. "Range has tripled, even quintupled. Look at the Lucid Air -- it gets over 500 miles of range in a single charge." Voelcker pointed out that the bulk of charging for EV owners takes place at home, not on the road. The majority of owners use public chargers two or three times a year, he said. "The more you live with an EV, you don't have to take every last opportunity to charge it," he said. "It's rare that you cover 250 miles in a day." Hammes, a first-time EV owner, said his experience overall with the Kona Electric has been positive. He installed a 240-volt Level 2 charger in his garage last December and has only praise for the Hyundai Home system. His one gripe? The sales associates at his local Hyundai dealership were unknowledgeable and poorly trained about the intricacies of EV ownership, he explained. "The dealership experience is so far behind. I get solicitations for oil changes. The staff is so disconnected from the product they're selling," he said. Hammes said he will likely choose another EV when his lease is up next spring -- only this time he's adding more range. "For me personally the new threshold would be 300 [miles]. That number makes me feel more comfortable," he said. "That's what I am aiming for in our next EV." In short that article is fucking retarded and contradicts itself. |
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Quoted: Why is that a bad thing then? The current system is out of date and already struggling, it's long overdue for an overhaul. Quoted: Quoted: The complete distribution grid will need to be rebuilt. The existing transmission system is already strained under normal loads. Why is that a bad thing then? The current system is out of date and already struggling, it's long overdue for an overhaul. At what cost and to whom? Electric rates are already high |
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Quoted: The trouble is, the powers that be want to force everyone to switch to EVs, not just the niche for which it might work ok. Not everyone only drives short trips to work daily. For those that do and thats all they need ever or those that can afford to have both EV and ICE vehicles to cover all possibilities, great. My ICE vehicle can make short daily drives, too, and with a 10 minute fuel up be ready for a 1200 mile toad trip with only one additional 10 minute refuel in the middle. Until EVs can do that, I'm not interested. You WILL be interested and like it  |
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Quoted: No, I take it back. This is dumbest thing Ive read today. So far. Quoted: Quoted: Go burn a tire or shoot a machine gun safely in your sub division in broad day light and get back to me. The authorities will come for you. Some are happy with this slavery, I am not. This situation is not a win, it in just more incrementalism that is making politicians and their cronies rich. Try collecting rainwater. You think they will allow home generators? You don't think they won't have complete control of your PV system? I am amazed how people are so quick to give up even more of their freedoms. No, I take it back. This is dumbest thing Ive read today. So far. The day is yet young. |
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Where are the folks from the neighborhood that got their power station shot up and lost power for a week or so ? What a nightmare to add to the problems already for them . How many times you here , there targeting our electrical infrastructure ? Well if they are they'll wait till were vulnerable and make hitchhiking great again. |
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Quoted: How much cooking oil do you expect to have? Seriously? How much are you going to gasify? You going to replace your diesel / gas consumption with cooking oil diesel? I dont need batteries to charge another battery. Charge up during daylight. How is that so hard to understand? My air fryer ruined my brilliant bio-diesel independence scheme. |
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Quoted: Quoted: My guess is, you will be proven utterly and completely wrong about that. Nuclear power is non-starter. |
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Quoted: Except most home made electricity will come from solar. Solar electricity is made in the daytime not at night when most people will be home wanting to charge their EVs. Therefore daytime home made electricity will have to be stored in batteries in ones home until the EV is brought home in the evening for charging. Look at the amount of lithium will be needed for all of these new EVs not to mention the amount needed for the home generated electricity storage.  You don’t need lithium for stationary batteries. It only really matters for transportation because it needs to be compact and lightweight. |
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Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. It's not so much that there is hate for EVs.....but 100 years ago the gov't neither shot the horses or subsidized gasoline &/or gas stations. |
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Math (a hard science) kills this (pipe dream) EV unicorn. To preserve the 3.2 trillion miles driven currently on petroleum equals a 1 gigawatt nuke plant going online every few weeks to cover the EV transition. When was the last nuke plant brought to bear?  Universal Electric Car Myth Debunked: One Smoldering Tweet Follows the Math The same ilk that fights nuclear tooth and nail are the same environazis preaching for EV conversion. No math needed at all to see travel costs will cripple the average person. Next will come: "Well, if you are a responsible citizen, altruism dictates you live in an urban apartment and partake of our glorious, totally safe, mass transit system." Most will be forced into that corral. |
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Quoted: I see charging stations of 2 or 4 and rarely 6 spots at a highway service stop. they each take 3-40 minutes to charge in a parking lot that has 50-100 cars in it with a gas station that has 10-12 pumps. It takes 5 minutes to pump 20 gallons of gas. That is roughly 12 cars per hour per pump x 10 pumps so a capacity to refill 120 cars per hour. Now figure out how charging stations they need to charge 120 EVs per hour: say 30 minutes per charge , all fast chargers, Each charger can do 2 cars per hour. So you need 60 chargers. A model S has a 90kwhr battery, so charging 2 model S cars takes 180 KWhrs in an hour. 180 KW x 60 chargers is 10,800 Kilowatts or 10,800,000 watt per hour. That is 10.8 megawatts. LOL. To match the 'refuel' capacity in charging stations on the highway to that of current highway gas stations, you will need a high voltage transmission to run close to the station and then a substation to step down the voltage to and then The only solution is to not have individual travel. What you are ignoring is over 80 percent of charging happens at the owners place of residence. Nobody pumps gas at home so it’s not a good analogy. |
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Quoted: Math (a hard science) kills this (pipe dream) EV unicorn. To preserve the 3.2 trillion miles driven currently on petroleum equals a 1 gigawatt nuke plant going online every few weeks to cover the EV transition. When was the last nuke plant brought to bear?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwWzmu_rKFAThe same ilk that fights nuclear tooth and nail are the same environazis preaching for EV conversion. No math needed at all to see travel costs will cripple the average person. Next will come: "Well, if you are a responsible citizen, altruism dictates you live in an urban apartment and partake of our glorious, totally safe, mass transit system." Most will be forced into that corral. Looking at it that way is a classic case of "missing the big picture because you're too busy arguing about the frame." The switch to EVs will happen because it benefits the interests of the people who run the world. Once again, the technological unfeasibilty of mass adoption of EVs is a feature, not a bug. Watching people (some right here in this thread) debating the technical aspects of EVs is like watching two Jews in late 30's Germany debating what the "right" color for the inside of a gas chamber is. By the time they realize how misguided their priorities are, it'll be far too late. |
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Quoted: 100 years ago, you could throw a couple cheap gas cans in a rack on the back of the car for when you needed to go where there wasn't a gas station. This could easily (and quickly) double the range of your car before needing to find a gas station. I would like to see you add a meaningful amount of range with add on battery packs without costing a significant amount of the price of the vehicle. Aside from the cost, it would then a considerable amount of time to charge both the car and add-on battery pack. Quoted: Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. 100 years ago, you could throw a couple cheap gas cans in a rack on the back of the car for when you needed to go where there wasn't a gas station. This could easily (and quickly) double the range of your car before needing to find a gas station. I would like to see you add a meaningful amount of range with add on battery packs without costing a significant amount of the price of the vehicle. Aside from the cost, it would then a considerable amount of time to charge both the car and add-on battery pack. Surprised President Poopypants is not mandating our Humvees be electric for war. The Jerry Can is 'Mericah! AF.  |
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It’s not just about control. The population must be forced to drive EVs or the grift doesn’t work. The infrastructure costs to build what Biden’s pie in the sky plan calls for will make the Ukraine debacle seem like a write off. The public must be coerced into driving an EV so that we will stomach the immense costs and increase in taxes. We will welcome it. GD globalists will say “it’s for the good of the community.” If you disagree with what I have written then explain why the government is mandating a switch to EVs? |
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Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. I live in BFE Kentucky and there are chargers within a couple of miles. These old fucks are the reason are country is failing because they spread lies and rumors because of their personal feelings. |
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Quoted: Where are the folks from the neighborhood that got their power station shot up and lost power for a week or so ? What a nightmare to add to the problems already for them . How many times you here , there targeting our electrical infrastructure ? Well if they are they'll wait till were vulnerable and make hitchhiking great again. Where are the folks from when parts of North Carolina ran out of gas a couple of years ago with a distributor who controlled a pipeline was hacked by Russians with ransomware? https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-9fc6f38ef41a887e2db70262a93e2f49 |
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Quoted: I’m on the fence on if it is needed or not. The tech isn’t really there to make the smart call on it yet or not. It sounds great but when you realize an EV is 6-12 smart wall battery’s and EV to home is coming (and backwards compatible to a lot of evs on the road already) it becomes a question of is it worth it. I think I might just for the automatic transfer. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much cooking oil do you expect to have? Seriously? How much are you going to gasify? You going to replace your diesel / gas consumption with cooking oil diesel? I dont need batteries to charge another battery. Charge up during daylight. How is that so hard to understand? Kind of hard to charge your EV at home at night using solar without a huge battery bank. Diesel is easily available at gas stations, should it be rationed one could produce their own and easily store it at home. I don't see that much of a stretch in having a power wall or battery bank installed if you are already committed to capturing solar energy. I’m on the fence on if it is needed or not. The tech isn’t really there to make the smart call on it yet or not. It sounds great but when you realize an EV is 6-12 smart wall battery’s and EV to home is coming (and backwards compatible to a lot of evs on the road already) it becomes a question of is it worth it. I think I might just for the automatic transfer. The other factor, is that most families aren't single vehicle families. Lots of middle class families have a vehicle sitting at any given time. |
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Quoted: It’s not just about control. The population must be forced to drive EVs or the grift doesn’t work. The infrastructure costs to build what Biden’s pie in the sky plan calls for will make the Ukraine debacle seem like a write off. The public must be coerced into driving an EV so that we will stomach the immense costs and increase in taxes. We will welcome it. GD globalists will say “it’s for the good of the community.” If you disagree with what I have written then explain why the government is mandating a switch to EVs. The push for EVs guarantees shortages of power in the future; shortages which will be used as a tool for social control and compliance. |
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Quoted: Again, big picture. Go burn a tire, shoot a machine gun. You pay the price. If you try to circumvent their control you will pay a similar price. Look at the poor bastards that try to collect rain water, or a farmer that tampers with a "wetland" They will control charging. They will control everything. It is human nature and we are doomed to repeat history. Quoted: Quoted: You are coming of as paranoid now. It was a simple question. You can go buy solar panels and controllers today, right now, and start charging up an EV at your house. Again, big picture. Go burn a tire, shoot a machine gun. You pay the price. If you try to circumvent their control you will pay a similar price. Look at the poor bastards that try to collect rain water, or a farmer that tampers with a "wetland" They will control charging. They will control everything. It is human nature and we are doomed to repeat history. Water rights have been a thing for a long time. There's basically been small wars over them out west. Collecting water in your area can severely affect people in another region. It's nothing new. |
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Quoted: Surprised President Poopypants is not mandating our Humvees be electric for war. The Jerry Can is 'Mericah! AF. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1luLRXKoJM8/R5vzdNBuerI/AAAAAAAABv8/58xxthv10n0/s400/jerrycan.jpg Do you even know why it’s called a Jerry Can in the first place? |
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Quoted: There is another scam....solar. Quoted: Quoted: How does it give complete control? Can you refine petroleum at your home, or do you rely on a network of lines and stations to get your supply? How about electricity? I bet you can much more easily (and cheaply) get set up to make your own right at home. There is another scam....solar. Why is personal solar a scam? |
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Quoted: They can't explain it. Or, they don't want to. It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they are being fooled. The push for EVs guarantees shortages of power in the future; shortages which will be used as a tool for social control and compliance. Quoted: Quoted: It's not just about control. The population must be forced to drive EVs or the grift doesn't work. The infrastructure costs to build what Biden's pie in the sky plan calls for will make the Ukraine debacle seem like a write off. The public must be coerced into driving an EV so that we will stomach the immense costs and increase in taxes. We will welcome it. GD globalists will say "it's for the good of the community." If you disagree with what I have written then explain why the government is mandating a switch to EVs. The push for EVs guarantees shortages of power in the future; shortages which will be used as a tool for social control and compliance. I don't understand this whole infrastructure doesn't/hasn't/wont ever changed argument so EV's will sink society. It's just incorrect and lazy. |
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Quoted: Very true. However, very few people can afford to buy a special purpose vehicle. One would have to have a road trip/extended trip/vacation vehicle like some flavor if ICE SUV or minivan, and pickup truck to home projects, and one or more EVs for commuting to/from work. Makes no sense, and no vehicle will do all of those well. Therefore people will compromise since they can afford only 1 or 2 cars. That's how you end up with EV owners stuck with a dead battery on a road trip, or people commuting to/from their office job in pickup truck. Since being stuck in a rote location in a EV in winter is a safety concern for multiple reasons, most will just live with the inefficiency of the ICE. Quoted: Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Very true. However, very few people can afford to buy a special purpose vehicle. One would have to have a road trip/extended trip/vacation vehicle like some flavor if ICE SUV or minivan, and pickup truck to home projects, and one or more EVs for commuting to/from work. Makes no sense, and no vehicle will do all of those well. Therefore people will compromise since they can afford only 1 or 2 cars. That's how you end up with EV owners stuck with a dead battery on a road trip, or people commuting to/from their office job in pickup truck. Since being stuck in a rote location in a EV in winter is a safety concern for multiple reasons, most will just live with the inefficiency of the ICE. We've done the math on this before, and it worked out so something like 60-70% of working people would be perfectly well served by owning an EV. We used the numbers for people that commute and how far that commute was, and how many homes have more than one vehicle. In my personal case, my wife's vehicle could easily be an EV (and probably will be some day, I'm not going to build a garage at this place just to charge one, she can't use my shop). A full charge can handle her entire weekly commute, and although we often use her vehicle for trips, we could alter that if needed, depending on distance and charge availability. I have no use for one as a primary vehicle, I do too many miles and haul a trailer most of the time. Many many households have a similar dynamic. |
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Quoted: You are assuming we are stuck with lithium batteries. It's just another step with them. Remember when Li-ion knocked Ni-Cad out of the race? The same thing will eventually happen again, energy density will increase and charging rates will decrease. Might be 5 years, might be 50. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you think is sitting inside that car your charging? You could, in theory, use the vehicle as your battery bank, or part of a series of banks. That still doesn't change the fact that most people can get set up to make their own electricity, very few people can make their own gasoline or diesel. Solar electricity is made in the daytime not at night when most people will be home wanting to charge their EVs. Therefore daytime home made electricity will have to be stored in batteries in ones home until the EV is brought home in the evening for charging. Look at the amount of lithium will be needed for all of these new EVs not to mention the amount needed for the home generated electricity storage. You are assuming we are stuck with lithium batteries. It's just another step with them. Remember when Li-ion knocked Ni-Cad out of the race? The same thing will eventually happen again, energy density will increase and charging rates will decrease. Might be 5 years, might be 50. Who is doing the assuming here. Lol |