[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 5 of 12)
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Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. Probably take up too much space and weight in the vehicle. |
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Quoted: It's not so much that there is hate for EVs.....but 100 years ago the gov't neither shot the horses or subsidized gasoline &/or gas stations. Quoted: Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. It's not so much that there is hate for EVs.....but 100 years ago the gov't neither shot the horses or subsidized gasoline &/or gas stations. There's been several subsidies for oil. It's estimated that without them that gas would currently be upwards of $12/gallon. |
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Quoted: I live in BFE Kentucky and there are chargers within a couple of miles. These old fucks are the reason are country is failing because they spread lies and rumors because of their personal feelings. Quoted: Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. I live in BFE Kentucky and there are chargers within a couple of miles. These old fucks are the reason are country is failing because they spread lies and rumors because of their personal feelings. There's also probably several charger right next to where you are currently sitting. People always ignore the charging at home part. |
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Quoted: Who is doing the assuming here. Lol Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you think is sitting inside that car your charging? You could, in theory, use the vehicle as your battery bank, or part of a series of banks. That still doesn't change the fact that most people can get set up to make their own electricity, very few people can make their own gasoline or diesel. Solar electricity is made in the daytime not at night when most people will be home wanting to charge their EVs. Therefore daytime home made electricity will have to be stored in batteries in ones home until the EV is brought home in the evening for charging. Look at the amount of lithium will be needed for all of these new EVs not to mention the amount needed for the home generated electricity storage.  You are assuming we are stuck with lithium batteries. It's just another step with them. Remember when Li-ion knocked Ni-Cad out of the race? The same thing will eventually happen again, energy density will increase and charging rates will decrease. Might be 5 years, might be 50. Who is doing the assuming here. Lol Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. |
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Quoted: Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. |
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Quoted: There's also probably several charger right next to where you are currently sitting. People always ignore the charging at home part. It ruins their strawman argument when you point that out to them. The right is retarded on electric cars a lot in the exact same way the left is retarded on guns. They either strawman or ignore their way around the facts. They also assume you can’t have a second vehicle available or one that’s either a hybrid or an ICE vehicle for the less than twenty percent of the time you need to drive more than the three hundred plus mile range of a good electric like a Tesla. They alway pick a shitty electric vehicle when they want to show how bad they are too. Like that tard with the Leaf who went for a drive across Wyoming’s couple a months ago and was shocked a cheat EV with an eighty Mike range sucked for long distance driving. |
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Quoted: We've done the math on this before, and it worked out so something like 60-70% of working people would be perfectly well served by owning an EV. We used the numbers for people that commute and how far that commute was, and how many homes have more than one vehicle. In my personal case, my wife's vehicle could easily be an EV (and probably will be some day, I'm not going to build a garage at this place just to charge one, she can't use my shop). A full charge can handle her entire weekly commute, and although we often use her vehicle for trips, we could alter that if needed, depending on distance and charge availability. I have no use for one as a primary vehicle, I do too many miles and haul a trailer most of the time. Many many households have a similar dynamic. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Very true. However, very few people can afford to buy a special purpose vehicle. One would have to have a road trip/extended trip/vacation vehicle like some flavor if ICE SUV or minivan, and pickup truck to home projects, and one or more EVs for commuting to/from work. Makes no sense, and no vehicle will do all of those well. Therefore people will compromise since they can afford only 1 or 2 cars. That's how you end up with EV owners stuck with a dead battery on a road trip, or people commuting to/from their office job in pickup truck. Since being stuck in a rote location in a EV in winter is a safety concern for multiple reasons, most will just live with the inefficiency of the ICE. We've done the math on this before, and it worked out so something like 60-70% of working people would be perfectly well served by owning an EV. We used the numbers for people that commute and how far that commute was, and how many homes have more than one vehicle. In my personal case, my wife's vehicle could easily be an EV (and probably will be some day, I'm not going to build a garage at this place just to charge one, she can't use my shop). A full charge can handle her entire weekly commute, and although we often use her vehicle for trips, we could alter that if needed, depending on distance and charge availability. I have no use for one as a primary vehicle, I do too many miles and haul a trailer most of the time. Many many households have a similar dynamic. I still think a plug-in hybrid with a small diesel would be the perfect vehicle for most people but the EPA fucked us there. I've thought about getting a 2019 Volt Premier for shits and giggles to try for awhile. They killed it right when it got *really* good with a little more range and faster charging. GM's gonna GM though lol. |
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Quoted: The government always makes BS claims they can't back. ICE isn't going anywhere for a long time, simply because it can't go anywhere for a long time. Doesn't mean improving existing infrastructure is a bad thing. Have you been paying any attention to Gov Hochul? |
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Quoted: This is GD where we argue everything in binary non-dynamic assumptions sir. Quoted: Quoted: Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. I swear these guys probably still run plug in power tools.....just because. People forget how big of a deal it was when Li-ion jumped on the scene....the whole dynamic of our work day changed almost overnight, construction changed entirely. |
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Quoted: Have you been paying any attention to Gov Hochul? Quoted: Quoted: The government always makes BS claims they can't back. ICE isn't going anywhere for a long time, simply because it can't go anywhere for a long time. Doesn't mean improving existing infrastructure is a bad thing. Have you been paying any attention to Gov Hochul? Yeah, and I'm not worried. NY went through this with the background check on ammo in SAFE. They had no plan to implement it, and couldn't implement it, so it got ignored. |
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Quoted: Because without EV's there is no population growth which increase demand on electrical infrastructure which would necessitate growth of power stations anyway? I don't understand this whole infrastructure doesn't/hasn't/wont ever changed argument so EV's will sink society. It's just incorrect and lazy. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's not just about control. The population must be forced to drive EVs or the grift doesn't work. The infrastructure costs to build what Biden's pie in the sky plan calls for will make the Ukraine debacle seem like a write off. The public must be coerced into driving an EV so that we will stomach the immense costs and increase in taxes. We will welcome it. GD globalists will say "it's for the good of the community." If you disagree with what I have written then explain why the government is mandating a switch to EVs. The push for EVs guarantees shortages of power in the future; shortages which will be used as a tool for social control and compliance. I don't understand this whole infrastructure doesn't/hasn't/wont ever changed argument so EV's will sink society. It's just incorrect and lazy. To compare the two is silly. (Not to mention, our grid is already considered a growing problem, even without the consideration of EVs.) It’s like you don’t even want to try thinking about this critically. |
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Quoted: I swear these guys probably still run plug in power tools.....just because. People forget how big of a deal it was when Li-ion jumped on the scene....the whole dynamic of our work day changed almost overnight, construction changed entirely. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. I swear these guys probably still run plug in power tools.....just because. People forget how big of a deal it was when Li-ion jumped on the scene....the whole dynamic of our work day changed almost overnight, construction changed entirely. |
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Quoted: Redneck republicans cant seem to grasp this concept. Quoted: Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Redneck republicans cant seem to grasp this concept. I know plenty of rednecks, and republicans, and even redneck republicans. I know of no, zero, redneck republicans. Honestly rednecks of whatever political affiliations have more common sense to rely on EV’s or government to be depended on for long distance travel reliability. The only EV owners that I personally know that use them for long distance travels are firmly on the left. As a matter of fact my next door neighbor that has a BMW EV can only depend on 65 miles per charge on his aging batteries, it wont even get him to work and back without his additional 24 miles of ICE provided “emergency” range. It seems to me that failure to grasp any concepts is a condition shared by lefties. Sorry your girl lost. |
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Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. Speed of charging and power capacity /range of the vehicle are not the real point. Those issues will likely be solved with tech improvements. The real point is the amount of electrons generated to charge an EV. Those electrons are generated. Generation takes power. Currently, the majority is generated using coal. Coal (of which we have plenty) is being shuttered by the same government that is pushing EVs. Shut down coal, then where do we get our electrons? Nuclear is the only coast effective option compared to coal, but you, me and anybody else reading this knows that will not happen. Electrical demand goes up, electron price skyrockets. Don't even get me started on current subsidation of charging EVs now. "Wow, I (kinda) supercharged my Tesla 3s for $8.45 during an hour's downtime at Starbucks. I can drive another 200 miles!" That will change when your EV is not an oddity and five other travellers are squabbling over the supercharge station you used to have all to yourself. The government subsidized electron money will cease, you pay more, or the subsidies will increase to cover the ever increasing electrical load. "We" pay those subsidies through taxation theft. "Fuck waiting and fighting for a public charger! 'll just pay X-thousands of dollars to put a supercharger in my garage...the new one will charge my 400 mile Electro-Truckster in 30 minutes!" Then you find you have to change your service entry at the house from #4 aluminum to 500kcmil copper and the lights still dim in the house during a charge. Those amps, no longer being subsidized, run your electric bill up threefold and your increased taxes are still funding subsidized charging stations. TANSTAAFL. |
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Quoted: Which is why new grid infrastructure needs to be built out to better handle load peaks. This is already a problem that needs to be addressed in the summer in a lot of areas, so it might as well be addressed sooner rather than later. Yet every summer we're told to conserve electricity. TPTB aren't in any hurry to fix the grid problem |
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Quoted: Speed of charging and power capacity /range of the vehicle are not the real point. Those issues will likely be solved with tech improvements. The real point is the amount of electrons generated to charge an EV. Those electrons are generated. Generation takes power. Currently, the majority is generated using coal. Coal (of which we have plenty) is being shuttered by the same government that is pushing EVs. Shut down coal, then where do we get our electrons? Nuclear is the only coast effective option compared to coal, but you, me and anybody else reading this knows that will not happen. Electrical demand goes up, electron price skyrockets. Don't even get me started on current subsidation of charging EVs now. "Wow, I (kinda) supercharged my Tesla 3s for $8.45 during an hour's downtime at Starbucks. I can drive another 200 miles!" That will change when your EV is not an oddity and five other travellers are squabbling over the supercharge station you used to have all to yourself. The government subsidized electron money will cease, you pay more, or the subsidies will increase to cover the ever increasing electrical load. "We" pay those subsidies through taxation theft. "Fuck waiting and fighting for a public charger! 'll just pay X-thousands of dollars to put a supercharger in my garage...the new one will charge my 400 mile Electro-Truckster in 30 minutes!" Then you find you have to change your service entry at the house from #4 aluminum to 500kcmil copper and the lights still dim in the house during a charge. Those amps, no longer being subsidized, run your electric bill up threefold and your increased taxes are still funding subsidized charging stations. TANSTAAFL. Quoted: Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. Speed of charging and power capacity /range of the vehicle are not the real point. Those issues will likely be solved with tech improvements. The real point is the amount of electrons generated to charge an EV. Those electrons are generated. Generation takes power. Currently, the majority is generated using coal. Coal (of which we have plenty) is being shuttered by the same government that is pushing EVs. Shut down coal, then where do we get our electrons? Nuclear is the only coast effective option compared to coal, but you, me and anybody else reading this knows that will not happen. Electrical demand goes up, electron price skyrockets. Don't even get me started on current subsidation of charging EVs now. "Wow, I (kinda) supercharged my Tesla 3s for $8.45 during an hour's downtime at Starbucks. I can drive another 200 miles!" That will change when your EV is not an oddity and five other travellers are squabbling over the supercharge station you used to have all to yourself. The government subsidized electron money will cease, you pay more, or the subsidies will increase to cover the ever increasing electrical load. "We" pay those subsidies through taxation theft. "Fuck waiting and fighting for a public charger! 'll just pay X-thousands of dollars to put a supercharger in my garage...the new one will charge my 400 mile Electro-Truckster in 30 minutes!" Then you find you have to change your service entry at the house from #4 aluminum to 500kcmil copper and the lights still dim in the house during a charge. Those amps, no longer being subsidized, run your electric bill up threefold and your increased taxes are still funding subsidized charging stations. TANSTAAFL. Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: It ruins their strawman argument when you point that out to them. The right is retarded on electric cars a lot in the exact same way the left is retarded on guns. They either strawman or ignore their way around the facts. They also assume you can't have a second vehicle available or one that's either a hybrid or an ICE vehicle for the less than twenty percent of the time you need to drive more than the three hundred plus mile range of a good electric like a Tesla. They alway pick a shitty electric vehicle when they want to show how bad they are too. Like that tard with the Leaf who went for a drive across Wyoming's couple a months ago and was shocked a cheat EV with an eighty Mike range sucked for long distance driving. The main problem with EVs is we just don't have the electricity producing capacity nor the infrastructure to deliver this new electrical demand at this time. Pushing more EVs until this main problem is solved is foolish. Not to mention the materials to build the batteries these new EVs require, where will they come from? |
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Quoted: Do you even know why it’s called a Jerry Can in the first place? Quoted: Quoted: Surprised President Poopypants is not mandating our Humvees be electric for war. The Jerry Can is 'Mericah! AF. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1luLRXKoJM8/R5vzdNBuerI/AAAAAAAABv8/58xxthv10n0/s400/jerrycan.jpg Do you even know why it’s called a Jerry Can in the first place? I'll bite this drift...no, i do not know why they are called Jerry cans, but the point is the contents of those container and the raw, mobile power packed inside. Six jerry cans in the bed of one of Musk's Super Trucks are as worthless as teets on a boar. Six jerry cans in the bed of my ICE truck will get me 300 extra miles. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. Speed of charging and power capacity /range of the vehicle are not the real point. Those issues will likely be solved with tech improvements. The real point is the amount of electrons generated to charge an EV. Those electrons are generated. Generation takes power. Currently, the majority is generated using coal. Coal (of which we have plenty) is being shuttered by the same government that is pushing EVs. Shut down coal, then where do we get our electrons? Nuclear is the only coast effective option compared to coal, but you, me and anybody else reading this knows that will not happen. Electrical demand goes up, electron price skyrockets. Don't even get me started on current subsidation of charging EVs now. "Wow, I (kinda) supercharged my Tesla 3s for $8.45 during an hour's downtime at Starbucks. I can drive another 200 miles!" That will change when your EV is not an oddity and five other travellers are squabbling over the supercharge station you used to have all to yourself. The government subsidized electron money will cease, you pay more, or the subsidies will increase to cover the ever increasing electrical load. "We" pay those subsidies through taxation theft. "Fuck waiting and fighting for a public charger! 'll just pay X-thousands of dollars to put a supercharger in my garage...the new one will charge my 400 mile Electro-Truckster in 30 minutes!" Then you find you have to change your service entry at the house from #4 aluminum to 500kcmil copper and the lights still dim in the house during a charge. Those amps, no longer being subsidized, run your electric bill up threefold and your increased taxes are still funding subsidized charging stations. TANSTAAFL. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-95.gif So where do you charge your Model 3? 
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Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. The major league difference is that EV stations are grid tied and will remain that way even for the medium term future. Gas stations are relative islands in comparison and non-pressurized liquid fuels are fairly easy to transport and store. The near term “solution”, if one might call it that, is the hybrid design. An excellent example of this concept is the RAV4 Prime; 100 miles electric and then 300+ gas miles, then probably some more electric range, since the engine charges the battery. Edit: the long term “solution” to fossil fuels is the nuclear battery. Here is a link to a 1980s article: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/business/patents-nuclear-battery-converts-reactor-waste-products.html - |
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Quoted: I'll bite this drift...no, i do not know why they are called Jerry cans, but the point is the contents of those container and the raw, mobile power packed inside. Six jerry cans in the bed of one of Musk's Super Trucks are as worthless as teets on a boar. Six jerry cans in the bed of my ICE truck will get me 300 extra miles. You said the Jerry Can was American as fuck. The Jerry comes from slang for Germans, the ones who invented the Jerry can. It’s an epic self-own. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan#German_invention |
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Quoted: At what cost? Can the average middle class American afford it? Quoted: Quoted: You are coming of as paranoid now. It was a simple question. You can go buy solar panels and controllers today, right now, and start charging up an EV at your house. At what cost? Can the average middle class American afford it? Probably, if they budget for it. Might have to forgo vacations this year and next or something. |
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Quoted: So where do you charge your Model 3? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about having a charger with a super capacitor and a series of r super capacitors in the car. Super capacitors at the charging station will charge of the super capacitors in the car really fast and then the super conductors in the car can start charging the car battery. I'm not an electrical engineer so jump on me if I got this wrong. Speed of charging and power capacity /range of the vehicle are not the real point. Those issues will likely be solved with tech improvements. The real point is the amount of electrons generated to charge an EV. Those electrons are generated. Generation takes power. Currently, the majority is generated using coal. Coal (of which we have plenty) is being shuttered by the same government that is pushing EVs. Shut down coal, then where do we get our electrons? Nuclear is the only coast effective option compared to coal, but you, me and anybody else reading this knows that will not happen. Electrical demand goes up, electron price skyrockets. Don't even get me started on current subsidation of charging EVs now. "Wow, I (kinda) supercharged my Tesla 3s for $8.45 during an hour's downtime at Starbucks. I can drive another 200 miles!" That will change when your EV is not an oddity and five other travellers are squabbling over the supercharge station you used to have all to yourself. The government subsidized electron money will cease, you pay more, or the subsidies will increase to cover the ever increasing electrical load. "We" pay those subsidies through taxation theft. "Fuck waiting and fighting for a public charger! 'll just pay X-thousands of dollars to put a supercharger in my garage...the new one will charge my 400 mile Electro-Truckster in 30 minutes!" Then you find you have to change your service entry at the house from #4 aluminum to 500kcmil copper and the lights still dim in the house during a charge. Those amps, no longer being subsidized, run your electric bill up threefold and your increased taxes are still funding subsidized charging stations. TANSTAAFL. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/EgcB5I3-51.gif /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-95.gif So where do you charge your Model 3? https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector#charging-speeds https://shop.tesla.com/product/wall-connector https://ev-lectron.com/collections/ev-chargers |
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Quoted: I have three vehicles between the wife and I. At least two could easily be EV with the usage/range they get yearly. All three could be EV as well as long as you properly account for charging at home savings vs delays of charging on the road for longer road trips. For where I would want to road trip and EV (~670 miles one way) the tech is basically there with the Lucid's. It's only 1-2 generations before that trickles down a bit into more of a middle/premium pricepoint. Plus the battery tech gets better too by then. I still think a plug-in hybrid with a small diesel would be the perfect vehicle for most people but the EPA fucked us there. I've thought about getting a 2019 Volt Premier for shits and giggles to try for awhile. They killed it right when it got *really* good with a little more range and faster charging. GM's gonna GM though lol. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Very true. However, very few people can afford to buy a special purpose vehicle. One would have to have a road trip/extended trip/vacation vehicle like some flavor if ICE SUV or minivan, and pickup truck to home projects, and one or more EVs for commuting to/from work. Makes no sense, and no vehicle will do all of those well. Therefore people will compromise since they can afford only 1 or 2 cars. That's how you end up with EV owners stuck with a dead battery on a road trip, or people commuting to/from their office job in pickup truck. Since being stuck in a rote location in a EV in winter is a safety concern for multiple reasons, most will just live with the inefficiency of the ICE. We've done the math on this before, and it worked out so something like 60-70% of working people would be perfectly well served by owning an EV. We used the numbers for people that commute and how far that commute was, and how many homes have more than one vehicle. In my personal case, my wife's vehicle could easily be an EV (and probably will be some day, I'm not going to build a garage at this place just to charge one, she can't use my shop). A full charge can handle her entire weekly commute, and although we often use her vehicle for trips, we could alter that if needed, depending on distance and charge availability. I have no use for one as a primary vehicle, I do too many miles and haul a trailer most of the time. Many many households have a similar dynamic. I still think a plug-in hybrid with a small diesel would be the perfect vehicle for most people but the EPA fucked us there. I've thought about getting a 2019 Volt Premier for shits and giggles to try for awhile. They killed it right when it got *really* good with a little more range and faster charging. GM's gonna GM though lol. As someone who has worked on 3 different brands of small diesels...run the fuck away. Emissions stuff being the single largest issue. The crazy part is...you might have one vehicle that's pretty reliable and it's sister truck is continuously in the shop for repairs. Also short stop start cycles really fuck with modern emissions. I had dealer level repair access and it was still a pain to keep trucks on the road... |
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Quoted: The major league difference is that EV stations are grid tied and will remain that way even for the medium term future. Gas stations are relative islands in comparison and non-pressurized liquid fuels are fairly easy to transport and store. The near term "solution", if one might call it that, is the hybrid design. An excellent example of this concept is the RAV4 Prime; 100 miles electric and then 300+ gas miles, then probably some more electric range, since the engine charges the battery. Edit: the long term "solution" to fossil fuels is the nuclear battery. Here is a link to a 1980s article: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/business/patents-nuclear-battery-converts-reactor-waste-products.html - Quoted: Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. The major league difference is that EV stations are grid tied and will remain that way even for the medium term future. Gas stations are relative islands in comparison and non-pressurized liquid fuels are fairly easy to transport and store. The near term "solution", if one might call it that, is the hybrid design. An excellent example of this concept is the RAV4 Prime; 100 miles electric and then 300+ gas miles, then probably some more electric range, since the engine charges the battery. Edit: the long term "solution" to fossil fuels is the nuclear battery. Here is a link to a 1980s article: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/business/patents-nuclear-battery-converts-reactor-waste-products.html - Also the RAV 4 prime DOES NOT have 100 miles EV. 42 miles per Toyota. The Lexus NX450h+ is a tad less than that. https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/ |
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Quoted: As someone who has worked on 3 different brands of small diesels...run the fuck away. Emissions stuff being the single largest issue. The crazy part is...you might have one vehicle that's pretty reliable and it's sister truck is continuously in the shop for repairs. Also short stop start cycles really fuck with modern emissions. I had dealer level repair access and it was still a pain to keep trucks on the road... |
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The real problem with EVs is they are trying to force this shit in a matter of ~10 years. A complete shift to EV could take an actual generation or more. That's the problem with all these policies. People are trying to enact change in THEIR lifetime for THEIR legacy. A lot of these changes need years to develop and build in a gradual manner rather than "rip the bandaid" type trajectories megalomaniacs try to employ. It's very selfish and causes more damage than actually dealing with the issues in a measured way. People would be a lot more accepting of change over time than forcing stuff down our throats; especially when a lot of it is half baked and causes more problems in the immediate time frame than fixes in the long term. |
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Imagine an alien civilization, with a culture rooted in logic, facts and reason, observing our energy debate from afar. It would make absolutely no sense to them at all. "Hey Bloorg, what's up with these guys? Their nuclear technology could provide them with an almost limitless source of electricity. That, in turn, would enable their domestic oil and gas reserves to meet their transportation needs for a hundred years or more. But, instead of going that route, they pursue things like "EVs" and "renewable energy." All the time money, and effort, they're wasting on battery operated cars and windmills could be spent on making nuclear power safer, and ICE vehicles cleaner and more efficient. None of it makes any sense." "I dunno, Zorg. They spend an unfathomable amount of time and money watching others of their kind chasing a something called a "ball" around, or watching the daily adventures of a group of humans called "The Real Housewives." Who can figure out creatures like that?" It's pretty simple really... if the actions of ostensibly, rational, sane people appear unreasonable or irrational, there's only one of two conclusions you can reach: A) They've broken with reality and gone insane. B) The publicly stated motive for their actions is a lie. |
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Quoted: And what kind of a nation would we be without fossil fuels? 2 horses in every garage? Quoted: Quoted: There's been several subsidies for oil. It's estimated that without them that gas would currently be upwards of $12/gallon. And what kind of a nation would we be without fossil fuels? 2 horses in every garage? What kind of nation will we become without a much more robust power grid in place? |
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Quoted: Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you think is sitting inside that car your charging? You could, in theory, use the vehicle as your battery bank, or part of a series of banks. That still doesn't change the fact that most people can get set up to make their own electricity, very few people can make their own gasoline or diesel. Solar electricity is made in the daytime not at night when most people will be home wanting to charge their EVs. Therefore daytime home made electricity will have to be stored in batteries in ones home until the EV is brought home in the evening for charging. Look at the amount of lithium will be needed for all of these new EVs not to mention the amount needed for the home generated electricity storage. You are assuming we are stuck with lithium batteries. It's just another step with them. Remember when Li-ion knocked Ni-Cad out of the race? The same thing will eventually happen again, energy density will increase and charging rates will decrease. Might be 5 years, might be 50. Who is doing the assuming here. Lol Why is my assumption a poor one? Several companies are working on new battery tech right now with various compounds. It's an ongoing field of research, and if human history has shown anything, its' that if we bang our heads against the wall long enough on a problem...we end up solving it. I'm looking at 5-50 yrs waiting on this future element that's going to provide what the public's expectations are. And then ramping up to mine or whatever is needed to gather this element in such a large quantity. I think in a way its cart before the horse |
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Quoted: What kind of nation will we become without a much more robust power grid in place? But this should happen before the push for EVs. Then let each person's wants and needs decide if an EV is right for him. |
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Quoted: What you are ignoring is over 80 percent of charging happens at the owners place of residence. Nobody pumps gas at home so it’s not a good analogy. Quoted: Quoted: I see charging stations of 2 or 4 and rarely 6 spots at a highway service stop. they each take 3-40 minutes to charge in a parking lot that has 50-100 cars in it with a gas station that has 10-12 pumps. It takes 5 minutes to pump 20 gallons of gas. That is roughly 12 cars per hour per pump x 10 pumps so a capacity to refill 120 cars per hour. Now figure out how charging stations they need to charge 120 EVs per hour: say 30 minutes per charge , all fast chargers, Each charger can do 2 cars per hour. So you need 60 chargers. A model S has a 90kwhr battery, so charging 2 model S cars takes 180 KWhrs in an hour. 180 KW x 60 chargers is 10,800 Kilowatts or 10,800,000 watt per hour. That is 10.8 megawatts. LOL. To match the 'refuel' capacity in charging stations on the highway to that of current highway gas stations, you will need a high voltage transmission to run close to the station and then a substation to step down the voltage to and then The only solution is to not have individual travel. What you are ignoring is over 80 percent of charging happens at the owners place of residence. Nobody pumps gas at home so it’s not a good analogy. What you are ignoring is that 80% is only true because there are so few EVs on the road right now and those people probably upgraded their electric service to support that. The majority of people can not and will not be able to charge at home due to a lack of 200 amp service, lack of heated garage, lack of infrastructure for everybody to charge their EV over night at home. LOL very very few people have the infrastructure in their house and certainly not in their apartment to charge an EV at home. Now add in the extra transmission capacity of those 80% of people charging their EV at home even if their home electric power was upgraded, the infrastructure to the house is not available to be upgraded except at very high cost. I live in a subdivision built in the mid to late 1980s. Everybody has 100 amp service. The power is all underground. These are 500,000 to 900,000 homes and they don't have it. Now do apartment buildings with no garages. Nobody is even talking about upgrading any of that. If everybody is going to charge their EV overnight, that power requirement will be needed in residential areas. 200 houses charging 50 KW over 10 hours. is 5 KW/hr. 5 KW per hour x 200 houses is 1000 KW or 1 Mega Watt Hour additional transmission capability Now do the math for every household having at least 2 cars not just the charging capability, but the service capability LOL. Now add in your kids visiting for the weekend. My shithole communist state has banned the sale of ICE engines for anything starting in 2035. 12 years from now, and they aren't even thinking about town distribution infrastructure upgrades. Good luck with that math. |
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Quoted: Imagine the size of the electric cables needed to upgrade this nightmare inducing neighborhood to be able to support even 10% of the homes having EVs. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/522423/SUBURBS-2263490.jpg exactly. |
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Quoted: We've done the math on this before, and it worked out so something like 60-70% of working people would be perfectly well served by owning an EV. We used the numbers for people that commute and how far that commute was, and how many homes have more than one vehicle. In my personal case, my wife's vehicle could easily be an EV (and probably will be some day, I'm not going to build a garage at this place just to charge one, she can't use my shop). A full charge can handle her entire weekly commute, and although we often use her vehicle for trips, we could alter that if needed, depending on distance and charge availability. I have no use for one as a primary vehicle, I do too many miles and haul a trailer most of the time. Many many households have a similar dynamic. |
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Quoted: The major league difference is that EV stations are grid tied and will remain that way even for the medium term future. Gas stations are relative islands in comparison and non-pressurized liquid fuels are fairly easy to transport and store. The near term “solution”, if one might call it that, is the hybrid design. An excellent example of this concept is the RAV4 Prime; 100 miles electric and then 300+ gas miles, then probably some more electric range, since the engine charges the battery. Edit: the long term “solution” to fossil fuels is the nuclear battery. Here is a link to a 1980s article: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/business/patents-nuclear-battery-converts-reactor-waste-products.html - Quoted: Quoted: 100 years ago there wasn't a gas station on every corner either. This shit takes time and will be a little messy for a while, its still no reason to hate EVs. The major league difference is that EV stations are grid tied and will remain that way even for the medium term future. Gas stations are relative islands in comparison and non-pressurized liquid fuels are fairly easy to transport and store. The near term “solution”, if one might call it that, is the hybrid design. An excellent example of this concept is the RAV4 Prime; 100 miles electric and then 300+ gas miles, then probably some more electric range, since the engine charges the battery. Edit: the long term “solution” to fossil fuels is the nuclear battery. Here is a link to a 1980s article: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/24/business/patents-nuclear-battery-converts-reactor-waste-products.html - I really think hybrids will end up being the right choice for a lot of people, and what we'll end up with in the meantime. |
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Quoted: You said the Jerry Can was American as fuck. The Jerry comes from slang for Germans, the ones who invented the Jerry can. It’s an epic self-own. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan#German_invention Quoted: Quoted: I'll bite this drift...no, i do not know why they are called Jerry cans, but the point is the contents of those container and the raw, mobile power packed inside. Six jerry cans in the bed of one of Musk's Super Trucks are as worthless as teets on a boar. Six jerry cans in the bed of my ICE truck will get me 300 extra miles. You said the Jerry Can was American as fuck. The Jerry comes from slang for Germans, the ones who invented the Jerry can. It’s an epic self-own. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan#German_invention I was too lazy to google. Thanks for that lapse in my trivia base. I've owned and used a few GI surplus "jerry" cans in tge field. Guess that still discredits me...I'm crushed. We also stole the Nazi interstate highway design, too and we have skads more of it laid. What of it? Do you see an EV truck with cheap electric fuel cells in racks on an overlanding trip in the Arizona desert? No, but you do see ICE 4x4s with fuel cans running all over. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 5 of 12)
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