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Posted: 10/9/2004 8:30:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 8:31:15 PM EST by Teknic]
I think I understand why you may need it but I want to justify the $110 I'm going to be spending. I have a Eotech mounted on my M4 which I use all the time to cowitness with my front site. I'm assuming the BUIS is for when I take off Eotech because it's broken during battle and I need to use my BUIS correct?

I like the novel idea behind it but how practical is it? When am I ever going to be in a situation I described above? Besides the cool factor, what real practical uses are there?

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:34:50 PM EST
Since you have an EOTech, you should have it in case you run out of batteries. Basically, you may go you entire life without needing it. But if you need it, you really need it. Better to lug around 2 oz. of overpirce aluminum or steel, and never have it, than to go without and have your EOTech run out of batteries while kidnappers load your kids into the van.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:55:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:03:36 PM EST
NEVER underestimate the "cool factor". Oh!,... sorry,..... I just noticed you're from Washington,...the state, no less. Well , down here in sunny, southern California we MUST have the "cool factor" meter pegged at all times.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:07:24 PM EST
I've noticed that about Californians. I do believe a Californian would comb his hair in the middle of a gun battle if he thought the news crew was coming. Its sad really
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:08:37 PM EST
+1
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:15:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 9:16:12 PM EST by Teknic]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Since you have an EOTech, you should have it in case you run out of batteries. Basically, you may go you entire life without needing it. But if you need it, you really need it. Better to lug around 2 oz. of overpirce aluminum or steel, and never have it, than to go without and have your EOTech run out of batteries while kidnappers load your kids into the van.



The Eotech has a low battery meter I believe. But let's just say for argument sake the batteries were dead, the kids were being kidnapped, the front sight along with the barrel of the gun should give you plenty of site or even just centering the eotech should be fine.

To me, I just don't get it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:17:47 PM EST
I like to take my Aimpoint off and run the BUIS sometimes. If you don't want one, that's cool. Lumpy196 doesn't run a BUIS on his A4gery. He says if he breaks his ACOG he'll be too busy crying to keep shooting.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:21:50 PM EST
I have a BUIS so that when it's in the middle of a match, the timer is running and I realize that I forgot to turn the Aimpoint on I can still hit the first set of targets without losing any time, then turn on the Aimpoint while I'm moving to the next set.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:03:53 PM EST
OK, well first off redundancy is king, pure and simple. It's nice to be able to flip up (i use ARMS 40) your BUIS and have a good sight if your EOTech goes tit up. In reality, I can get away without that feature for close in stuff, because my EOTech is co-witnessed and can be used as esentially a really big ghost ring if needs be. The main reason I have it, though, is so I can put acurate fire on at 200+ yards. I find the irons much more accurate for long distance stuff than dot sights.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:21:27 PM EST
$100 for a BUIS is cheap insurance if you ever REALLY need them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:10:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Teknic:
I think I understand why you may need it but I want to justify the $110 I'm going to be spending. I have a Eotech mounted on my M4 which I use all the time to cowitness with my front site. I'm assuming the BUIS is for when I take off Eotech because it's broken during battle and I need to use my BUIS correct?

I like the novel idea behind it but how practical is it? When am I ever going to be in a situation I described above? Besides the cool factor, what real practical uses are there?




?????????? do you have a spare tire in your vehical?
Jack
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:41:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 12:49:01 AM EST by 4get_No1]
As a side-note (not a hijack) glad to see ya back Jack. Lot's of times you've made me mad but I learn from ya too so it's worth it & I mean it - welcome home . Now (and I WILL NOT mention ANY brands)

hi Teknic,

I guess it's mostly an individual preference deal really. I have a weapon in case I need it for protection. Most of the time (for a civilian anyway) it's probably close-range if ya need it. I think the best sight for that is some sort of non-parallax red-dot type so that's why I picked one (& maybe you too).

However, rifles are also fun and, for me, a red-dot isn't as much fun for paper-punching so I wanted irons too. Now....

Personally, I don't care for irons in my view if I ever REALLY need to use the weapon so I also invested in flip-up BUIS front & rear and store the weapon with a combat light attached. I just keep an eye on battery power plus reasonably frequent functional checks. Not a real big percentage added to the cost of a reliable platform anyway and I have everything I want with one package - tool and toy.

<edit> Not a hijack but I guess it was a "hi Jack".
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:03:51 AM EST
Regarding loss of red-dot battery power, here's another thread you might want to look at when you decide. I don't know if you've run across Lumpy before but in case you haven't, I'm sure he's MUCH better at this than I would be but....

I'm not trying to say a red-dot without good batteries is okay but, from my perspective, the need to get the BUIS in-play within one heartbeat might not be all that important in a really close-range encounter. YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:14:57 AM EST
you really don't... its just if your crazy like most of us...

most people create the best gun possible... that does require a BUIS... on battery optics expecally... i like the idea of having irons to shoot too.. i have two shooting options... if one gets knocked out of wack... you have the other
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:30:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I've noticed that about Californians. I do believe a Californian would comb his hair in the middle of a gun battle if he thought the news crew was coming. Its sad really





LOL! You're probably correct, well, at least I thought it was funny.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:01:17 AM EST
For most of us, if we run out of battery life, we will either change the batteries (you guys carry spares, right?) or go home. If your ever in a situation where your optic goes down, its better to have trained using the backup iron sights so you are better prepared and know HOW to use them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:24:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Teknic:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Since you have an EOTech, you should have it in case you run out of batteries. Basically, you may go you entire life without needing it. But if you need it, you really need it. Better to lug around 2 oz. of overpirce aluminum or steel, and never have it, than to go without and have your EOTech run out of batteries while kidnappers load your kids into the van.



The Eotech has a low battery meter I believe. But let's just say for argument sake the batteries were dead, the kids were being kidnapped, the front sight along with the barrel of the gun should give you plenty of site or even just centering the eotech should be fine.

To me, I just don't get it.



If you'd shoot that way with your kids involved, then you are a better shot than me OR extremely wreckless.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:35:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:19:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 11:21:01 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:24:18 AM EST
For the same reason you have seatbelts in, and insurance on, your motor vehicle. Hopefully, they will turn out to be a complete waste of money. But......
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:58:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Back Up Iron Sight



Ive never seen a term so self-explanatory.........until now apparently.

+1
The term sort of speaks for itself.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:53:08 PM EST
I am of the contention the any back up is better than NO back up. if you cant bring yourself to shell out the dough for a mechanically and functionally superior 100 dollar unit, then please at least get some knock off airsoft BUIS for 30 or 40 bucks.

I cant believe i suggested that, but like i said, SOME back up is better than NONE.

a 53 dollar option is listed here:

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Category?menu1=8&menu2=114
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:18:44 PM EST
Something you're forgetting...... it's good to know HOW to shoot with irons, not just have them "in case." Most rifles in this world don't have fancy red dots.

I have a fixed BUIS with my EoTech. I love it because I can just turn OFF the optic and practice with irons. At 3-gun matches I'll shoot the match a couple times, once with the EOTech, once with irons. No taking crap off the rifle, moving levers, etc. I just turn off the dot and shoot.

*IF* the optic should fail (or I forget to turn it on before a 3-gun stage or before TSHTF).... I can just shoot with my setup. Don't have to remove or add or adjust anything so long as I can see through the lenses.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:21:04 PM EST
Murphy
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:27:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 7:08:42 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
I had to use the BUIS when my Aimpoint intensity knob was bumped during a 3-gun match.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:35:51 PM EST
I take it your rifle is not used for duty / combat? (otherwise I can't imagine this question being asked hers
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:20:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 7:01:39 PM EST by El_Roto]
You need a BUIS because at every carbine class I've taken at least once I hear "SHIT" and see someone reach for their optic's intensity/[ON][OFF] button after the "FIRE" command was given...

...and that guy knew he was about to shoot and didn't have anyone shooting at him. Totally non-stress environment yet he wasn't prepared and had no backup system in place. Bad juju.

Other times your optic could become so damaged that it has to be taken off the rifle, preventing you from even using it as a ghost-ring sight, so without BUIS you're screwed.


Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:30:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 5:31:48 PM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:58:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 7:00:50 PM EST by El_Roto]
Nah, I've decide to change to exclusively HB ARs: I fire all 30 rounds at once, then when the targets get close I club them to death.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:09:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:05:49 AM EST
I should have stated I use my AR mainly for ranges. I have a shotgun for home defense and my 9mm is what I carry. But, now I'm convinced I need a BUIS because of your thoughts. Thanks for opening my mind. This forum is just awesome.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:14:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
I have a BUIS so that when it's in the middle of a match, the timer is running and I realize that I forgot to turn the Aimpoint on ....



I thought you Aimpiont guys never turned the damned things off!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:30:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:31:06 AM EST by Hoplophile]

Originally Posted By jmart:

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
I have a BUIS so that when it's in the middle of a match, the timer is running and I realize that I forgot to turn the Aimpoint on ....



I thought you Aimpiont guys never turned the damned things off!


The guys with the current generation Aimpoints may leave them on all the time, but those of us with older models don't have such luxuries. It's almost as bad as having an EoTech.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:38:59 AM EST
BUIS

For when your Aimpoint either falls off or falls apart.

Maybe for a long range shot when your Aimpoint dot is gone...for some reason???

Otherwise it (Aimpoint Tube) makes a dandy ghost ring sight even if it is off
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:55:12 AM EST
Ok, time to hijack the thread for a second...

I decided I dont need ANY sighting device. Im just going to bump fire from now on.

WOOOOOOOOOO! - I MISSED!

You missed because you're supposed to hold the weapon either sideways, or over your head; don't you even own a TV? Jeez...

Gnats were swarming and bug spray did not help.
Garlic. Eat stuff that has a lot of garlic in it; a minute amount of it ccomes out in your sweat; not enough for you to notice but bugs will, and they won't come near it.

End of hijack.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:15:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:15:53 AM EST by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
You need a BUIS because at every carbine class I've taken at least once I hear "SHIT" and see someone reach for their optic's intensity/[ON][OFF] button after the "FIRE" command was given...

...and that guy knew he was about to shoot and didn't have anyone shooting at him. Totally non-stress environment yet he wasn't prepared and had no backup system in place. Bad juju.

Other times your optic could become so damaged that it has to be taken off the rifle, preventing you from even using it as a ghost-ring sight, so without BUIS you're screwed.





The one thing I do not like about my EOTech rev F is how difficult it is to turn it on and turn it off. If I were involved in teh decision-making for the next revision (rev "G"!), it would be to add a simple-to-operate, dedicated on/off switch.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:46:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
You need a BUIS because at every carbine class I've taken at least once I hear "SHIT" and see someone reach for their optic's intensity/[ON][OFF] button after the "FIRE" command was given...

...and that guy knew he was about to shoot and didn't have anyone shooting at him. Totally non-stress environment yet he wasn't prepared and had no backup system in place. Bad juju.

Other times your optic could become so damaged that it has to be taken off the rifle, preventing you from even using it as a ghost-ring sight, so without BUIS you're screwed.





The one thing I do not like about my EOTech rev F is how difficult it is to turn it on and turn it off. If I were involved in teh decision-making for the next revision (rev "G"!), it would be to add a simple-to-operate, dedicated on/off switch.



Kinda like the Aimpoint?

Bob
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:27:11 AM EST
Seatbelts, Insurance, Fire Extinguishers, Extra Ammo and Magazines. Spare Tires. Etc. Etc. The odds are you will never be in a gunfight. But when Mr. Murphy of Murphys Law fame rears his ugly head, things usually get very very ugly very quickly. It took 19 yrs. of Law Enforcement to end up in a shooting. When it happened anything that could jump on the wagon and take a ride did so. And that bastard Murphy was driving. I would add one thing, ammo practice, ammo practice, bolt ons and toys won't help in the end. Your skill will. But a good BUIS is pretty cheap insurnace at any price.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:35:41 AM EST





The one thing I do not like about my EOTech rev F is how difficult it is to turn it on and turn it off. If I were involved in teh decision-making for the next revision (rev "G"!), it would be to add a simple-to-operate, dedicated on/off switch.



Kinda like the Aimpoint?

Bob



didn't I see someone mention they needed their BUIS once because they bumped the knob on their aimpoint and fubar'd the brightness? I'll take tough-to-turn-off over easy-to-screw-up anyday!

rvb
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:16:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By rvb:





The one thing I do not like about my EOTech rev F is how difficult it is to turn it on and turn it off. If I were involved in teh decision-making for the next revision (rev "G"!), it would be to add a simple-to-operate, dedicated on/off switch.



Kinda like the Aimpoint?

Bob



didn't I see someone mention they needed their BUIS once because they bumped the knob on their aimpoint and fubar'd the brightness? I'll take tough-to-turn-off over easy-to-screw-up anyday!

rvb


No, he said he forgot to turn it on. that is operator error. not an ergonomic problem.
Bob
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:34:21 AM EST
RVB, here is the quote you were looking for.


Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY:
I had to use the BUIS when my Aimpoint intensity knob was bumped during a 3-gun match.



As far as an EOTech being hard to turn on, I don't get that at all. Push a button. Either up or down.

Why do you need BUIS? Besides all the great answers listed above...because it looks cool.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:41:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Teknic:
.... I have a Eotech mounted on my M4 which I use all the time to cowitness with my front site. ...



Anyone else find this comment unusual?

You're not supposed to be using the optic with any sight - its an independant sighting device. Cowitness is for the irons (front & rear) so you can verify zeros - or switch rapidly to your BUIS.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:52:01 AM EST
I was in your boat and I coughed up the money anyway. I doubt I will ever use mine for defense but I would like to be able to shoot with irons or with my eotech. A flatop also looks empty without a BUIS. I also feel you should be proficient with irons and red dot.
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