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Posted: 10/1/2009 2:40:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2010 11:33:46 PM EST by Garryowen]
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 4:29:17 PM EST
Sierra Vista. Appleby's

Tombstone.  Big Nose Kates
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 5:10:00 PM EST
Flagstaff, AZ

Granny's Closet
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 5:54:35 PM EST
Maricopa
Native New Yorker
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 6:15:06 PM EST
Here are a couple more I just checked out tonight.
Phoenix. 35th ave and baseline.
Native New Yorker
Applebee's
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 6:31:55 PM EST
In downtown Phx:

Matador
Tom's Tavern

In Scottsdale
Macayo's (Scottsdale and Shea)
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 6:59:27 PM EST
In Tucson:

Every Chipotle that I have been to (2 - Grant/Swan and Park Place)
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 7:04:20 PM EST
All Red Robin locations in AZ
Link Posted: 10/1/2009 9:41:08 PM EST
How about Claim Jumper?

Link Posted: 10/1/2009 10:26:10 PM EST
Does anyone know the penalty for ignoring one of these signs (and actually getting caught somehow)?  My question assumes no other infractions such as consuming alcohol.  I just wonder, hypothetically, if I saw the sign and ignored it then went in to buy a sandwich while carrying then somehow a police officer notices and arrests me for it.  

I tried to read the statute but couldn't figure out if it was a class I, class II, or class III misdemeanor because of all the darn cross referencing that goes on the verbiage.

Anyone know for sure?

Link Posted: 10/1/2009 10:46:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2009 12:51:42 AM EST by SinistralRifleman]
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 12:21:10 AM EST



Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:



Originally Posted By danelen:

Does anyone know the penalty for ignoring one of these signs (and actually getting caught somehow)?  My question assumes no other infractions such as consuming alcohol.  I just wonder, hypothetically, if I saw the sign and ignored it then went in to buy a sandwich while carrying then somehow a police officer notices and arrests me for it.  



I tried to read the statute but couldn't figure out if it was a class I, class II, or class III misdemeanor because of all the darn cross referencing that goes on the verbiage.



Anyone know for sure?







30 Days in Jail and/or $500 in fines


Source?



 
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 12:49:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 1:02:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By danelen:
Does anyone know the penalty for ignoring one of these signs (and actually getting caught somehow)?  My question assumes no other infractions such as consuming alcohol.  I just wonder, hypothetically, if I saw the sign and ignored it then went in to buy a sandwich while carrying then somehow a police officer notices and arrests me for it.  

I tried to read the statute but couldn't figure out if it was a class I, class II, or class III misdemeanor because of all the darn cross referencing that goes on the verbiage.

Anyone know for sure?



30 Days in Jail and/or $500 in fines

for all the "concealed means concealed" people please think about it this way; a business that posts a sign WANTS YOU TO GO TO JAIL FOR 30 DAYS AND BE FINED $500.00 why do you want to give them your money when they want you to be a criminal?


Thanks man.  This stinks.  My wife and I love Chipotle and some of these other businesses but I am not going to risk this penalty and can't conform to this nonsense either so I'll have to find other places to go.  I don't think we'll even be a blip on the radar of these businesses though.  

Link Posted: 10/2/2009 1:08:51 AM EST
Seriously people,..if you're going to carry a firearm for protection, take the time to learn the fucking laws from someplace other than "Hey, what's the penalty for...".

Do your own research.  Buy Alan Korwin's book @ www.gunlaws.com

Look on the Arizona Revised Statutes website.

Sinistral should be fucking charging people for legal research....$50 a search.
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 2:07:49 AM EST
Any restraunts planning on making  Green signs so people can see if its ok from the car or if there driving through the parking lot?  green gun on a small sign will do.

Link Posted: 10/2/2009 3:19:52 AM EST



Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:



Originally Posted By ae1:

Source?

 




http://www.gunlaws.com/AGOG2009.htm

43, 71, 79, 80 / SB 1113 / §§ 4-229, 4-244, 4-246, 11-441, 13-3102, 13-3112, 38-1102. Carry in restaurants for CCW permitees only



CCW-permit holders can carry in places licensed to serve alcohol, unless the places post official signs from the Dept. of Liquor Licenses banning entry to anyone with a firearm. The ban was written broadly enough to prohibit anyone from carrying, even on-duty police or employees, if signs are posted.



If access is not banned and you possess a firearm, you may not drink. If you enter you have an affirmative defense against prosecution (meaning you must prove your innocence) if you were not informed of the ban, the sign fell down, the sign was posted less than 30 days before you were charged, or you weren't a resident of the state. The exemption for going in to seek aid in an emergency has been preserved, and you have permission to go in far enough to see if there's a sign posted.



You can expect to see No Guns Allowed signs springing up all over the state, featuring official wording and an image of a gun inside a red circle with a slash through it. Drinking while carrying in a liquor-serving establishment, or carrying in such a place if it's posted for no guns, is a class 3 misdemeanor.



The guns-in-restaurants bill also says: Members of a sheriff's volunteer posse who have received specified training (AZPOST) can bear arms while on duty, with conditions. A U.S. law enforcement officer with 10 consecutive years of service and a special picture ID can carry concealed without a permit, and their most recent law-enforcement employer must issue the card on request. AZPOST-certified LEOs who volunteer for their agency's reserve program are exempt from taking the CCW training program. Misconduct with weapons in an act of terrorism is raised to a class 2 felony. Note that terrorism is broadly defined (§13-2301) and this law could be applied beyond the common understanding of terrorism (e.g., a felony with a firearm intended to influence policy or affect the conduct of the state). Another extra guarantee against localities banning LEOs from carrying firearms has been added.



Sentencing for misdemeanors:

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/00707.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/00802.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS





Satisfied?





Well thanks for the information. If I had known there was a plain-language digest of the law, I wouldn't have had to ask. You could have just provided the first link.



I found the Senate bill on my own, but was surprised to learn that it had changed before becoming law when I looked it up in the statutes. One difference: the requirement of posting a sign at the door was removed.



Anyway, anyone have an idea about what "resident" means? Don't worry about answering if you feel burdened by the question.






4-229.  Licenses; handguns; posting of
               notice




    A.  A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 or who meets the
criteria specified in section 13-3102, subsection D, paragraph 1 or 2 may carry a
concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the
licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed
premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:



    1.  Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and
immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.



    2.  Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red
line across the firearm.



    3.  Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".



    B.  A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale
retailer if the licensee has posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this
section.



    C.  It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:



    1.  The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this
section prior to the violation.



    2.  Any one or more of the following applies:



    (a)  At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this
section had fallen down.



    (b)  At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.


...







 
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 8:11:30 AM EST
DON'T GIVE THE BUSINESSES YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY!! Support those businesses that support us.

This has been a public service announcement.

Link Posted: 10/2/2009 9:15:41 AM EST
All of the Cucina Tagliani Italian restaurants seem to have signs posted, too.
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 4:47:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2009 5:02:12 PM EST by crux]
Additional businesses that DO NOTsupport CCW in Tucson:
Applebees
TGI Fridays
Frog & Firkin
Nimbus Brewing Company
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 6:40:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2009 6:48:01 PM EST by MadeByMattell]
A point for clarification that can't be ascertained by reading the text of the law.....

4-229. Licenses; handguns; posting of notice


A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 or who meets the criteria specified in section 13-3102, subsection D, paragraph 1 or 2 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:

1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.


Let's say you approach the main entrance, no sign on the door or near it on the building.  You enter the door, are greeted by the hostess, and taken directly to a table.  Nowhere between the door and the table do you see a sign.
There happens to be a sign posted on the wall behind the bar, off to the right of the main entrance a bit and you couldn't see it from standing just inside the front door.
Still a violation?  Good enough to fall under the affirmative defense of "not notified about the ban"?

Off to research requirements on location of liquor license.
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 7:30:26 PM EST
This is interesting.....

ADDITIONAL RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES: An applicant for a restaurant license must file a copy of its restaurant menu and Restaurant Operation Plan with the application. The Plan must include listings of all restaurant equipment and service items, the restaurant seating capacity, and other information requested by the department to substantiate that the restaurant will operate in compliance with Title 4. The licensee must notify the Department, in advance, of any proposed changes in the seating capacity of the restaurant or dimensions of a restaurant facility. Applicants, licensees, and managers must take a Title 4 training course  (liquor handling, laws and regulations) prior to approval. An Employee Log must be kept by the licensee of all persons employed at the premises including each employee's name, date and place of birth, address and responsibilities. A pregnancy warning sign for pregnant women consuming spirituous liquor must be posted within twenty (20) feet of the cash register or at point of display.

So, to put all this together, I'd say that the new guns prohibited sign, the liquor license, and a pregnancy warning must be located within 20 feet of the front door.  Comments?
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 9:45:49 PM EST
I went by the Chipotle at Gilbert/Warner about an hour ago.  I figured I would give them one last chance and maybe talk to the manager.  To my surprise, the sign was gone.  It was in a very inconspicuous spot last time I was there, so I walked the entire store looking for it.  Nothing on the board next to the liquor license either.  Just an FYI, don't know if it's a fluke or if they are really starting to bend...
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 10:25:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2009 10:27:04 PM EST by ragedracer1977]
Originally Posted By MadeByMattell:
This is interesting.....

ADDITIONAL RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES: An applicant for a restaurant license must file a copy of its restaurant menu and Restaurant Operation Plan with the application. The Plan must include listings of all restaurant equipment and service items, the restaurant seating capacity, and other information requested by the department to substantiate that the restaurant will operate in compliance with Title 4. The licensee must notify the Department, in advance, of any proposed changes in the seating capacity of the restaurant or dimensions of a restaurant facility. Applicants, licensees, and managers must take a Title 4 training course  (liquor handling, laws and regulations) prior to approval. An Employee Log must be kept by the licensee of all persons employed at the premises including each employee's name, date and place of birth, address and responsibilities. A pregnancy warning sign for pregnant women consuming spirituous liquor must be posted within twenty (20) feet of the cash register or at point of display.

So, to put all this together, I'd say that the new guns prohibited sign, the liquor license, and a pregnancy warning must be located within 20 feet of the front door.  Comments?


I just read that.  I don't have a clue why you think that section says anything about where a liquor license should be posted.  It doesn't even say anything about the front door.  They could have the cash register in the basement of the building next door if they wanted to, and the pregnancy sign would have to posted within 20 feet of that.  Doesn't matter where the liquor license is.
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 10:49:00 PM EST
I noticed today that Chino Banditos in Chandler has the sign up on the door but not near the liquor license.  I don't know if they just don't know where to put it but I didn't have time to talk to the mgr about it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2009 11:42:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By TimW:
Seriously people,..if you're going to carry a firearm for protection, take the time to learn the fucking laws from someplace other than "Hey, what's the penalty for...".

Do your own research.  Buy Alan Korwin's book @ www.gunlaws.com

Look on the Arizona Revised Statutes website.

Sinistral should be fucking charging people for legal research....$50 a search.


What's your problem?  

In case you were sleeping, this is a brand new law so not too many books are going to have anything on it.  And considering that reading the statute, like many such statutes, cleary leaves much room for different interpretations, it seems like a reasonable question to pose for a law that has been in effect less than a week.

Have a beer and relax man.
Link Posted: 10/3/2009 2:56:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 12:09:32 PM EST
iHop on 22nd and pantano had a sign the other day
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 12:19:45 PM EST
BTT,,,, because there's no one in the AZHTF to pin subjects that are important to us.
Jay
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 1:43:40 PM EST
Macayos at 59th ave. and Bell rd. says no.
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 2:09:17 PM EST
I'll ask my GF tonight if the Native New Yorker she works at has a sign up.
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 9:19:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2009 9:21:42 PM EST by AJFinn]
Geez people, I thought this was gonna be a thread listing the places that don't allow CCW in their establishment.  Take the chit-chat to the other thread... Please.
Let's just keep this a list of the "Places NOT to patronize".

ETA:  Just posted after reading the jaw-jacking from page 1.  
ETA Duex:  My wife and I are coming out there at the end of November for a day or so and won't be going to any of the crap-hole places listed here.  Thanks GaryOwen for posting this...
Link Posted: 10/4/2009 9:31:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2009 9:59:24 PM EST by AGW]
Link Posted: 10/6/2009 9:58:12 AM EST
Flagstaff: The Green Room has a sign up
Link Posted: 10/6/2009 10:41:36 PM EST
I can confirm that the Macayos on 19th ave and Tbird is posted.  I do have a question about the signs though.  The law says the text and crossed out firearm must consume an area 6x9 inches.  The overall size of their sign from edge to edge is 6x9.  The lettering and crossed out pistol do not consume all of this space.  Valid sign or not?
Link Posted: 10/6/2009 11:09:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2009 1:41:04 AM EST
The IHOP's in Tempe (Mill/Apache across from ASU) and 44th St. and Oak (Phoenix) in the Arcadia shopping center.

Add Chipotle also on the corner of 44th Street and Thomas (Phoenix).

Link Posted: 10/7/2009 4:53:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2009 10:07:45 PM EST by StealthyBlagga]
I adapted the AZCDL "no guns = no $"  card to say what I wanted to say. If anyone wants a copy in printable PDF format, just PM me your email address. Oh, and my local Chipotle has taken their sign down - I guess my email made a difference after all .





Link Posted: 10/7/2009 9:27:56 PM EST
Teakwoods in Maricopa
Link Posted: 10/8/2009 10:39:45 PM EST
Fox and Hound in Tucson put up the sticker while I was eatting there. When the manager walked by I stopped him to discuss the issue, He told me it was a corporate decision, I asked him what he was going to do to protect me if anything happened while I was there, of course I got a dumbfounded look. I told him that alot of people will stop coming here as this would be my last time and that I would make sure I let all other CCW holders know this. He told me he did not think it would matter as he was sure his customers didn't carry guns and that It would be no big deal. I asked him if he thought we were in California instead of AZ. I then told him the 12 people i was with for the business lunch will find another location next meeting as he walked away.
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 9:35:31 AM EST
Just saw these on AZShooting:
Linkie Here

Just thought I'd pass the link on to ya'll.
Link Posted: 10/10/2009 10:46:56 AM EST
The Shanty on 4th ave in Tucson has the sign up.
Link Posted: 10/10/2009 4:45:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2009 7:24:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Red White and Brew on Power and McDowell in Mesa.

We went to the regular after match restaurant, Red White and Brew for lunch and saw they have "No Guns" signs posted now.  I couldn't even get a staff member's attention to inform them they're losing money.  Went to eat at Village Inn instead.  This was disappointing because Red White and Brew has sponsored matches at Rio Salado before.  More disappointing in that I know some people from the match went there for lunch anyway.  I hope Red White and Brew isn't allowed to sponsor any more matches.


Outrageous - I just left a comment on their website .
Link Posted: 10/11/2009 12:45:21 AM EST
Cindy Lous on West Ajo likes CCW
Link Posted: 10/11/2009 7:09:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2009 2:04:41 AM EST
As a supplement to the list here, you can check out ASRPA's web page listing  establishments that welcome CCWs and those that don't.  



http://www.asrpa.com/html/ccw_cafe_s.html
Link Posted: 10/12/2009 11:46:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2009 11:46:51 AM EST by xdsnake]
McFadden's in Glendale has a no carry sign posted.
Link Posted: 10/12/2009 11:27:22 PM EST
In Tucson, the Churchs Chicken on 22nd doesn't allow concealed weapons, not sure about other locations.  


Link Posted: 10/13/2009 10:55:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2009 10:55:51 AM EST by WPNS462]
Denny's on Lithcfield and the I-10 in Goodyear. BUT...the sign is behind the cash register. On a Sunday morning when the place is crowded, you can't see it. My dad had to point it out to me when he paid the bill.
Link Posted: 10/13/2009 5:01:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By WPNS462:
Denny's on Lithcfield and the I-10 in Goodyear. BUT...the sign is behind the cash register. On a Sunday morning when the place is crowded, you can't see it. My dad had to point it out to me when he paid the bill.


Since when does denny's serve alcohol? Or maybe they're hoping to piggyback off the actual law.
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