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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:06:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:07:52 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:08:53 AM EDT
[#3]
any putin lovers in here calling this fake?
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:10:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read too many books on WW2 naval battles growing up, it was a big factor in me choosing to be a Dirt Sailor instead of picking a Fleet going Rate. Getting blown up, burned or drowning (or a combination of the three) inside a ship is a shitty way to go, I'd rather take my chances on land. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That would be a horrible fucking way to die. My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:12:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Considering the USN no longer uses two of those classes, and the Russians only have 3 ships total that meet that designation, with a grand total of what, 3 or 4 other vessels worldwide in those categories, I think we can consider cruisers to be capital ships. "Cruisers" have effectively replaced battlecruisers in operational usage in the past 75 years or so. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:14:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you say "artificial reef" in Russian? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nyet, brave missile cruiser now submarine, fighting fish Nazis. Very long mission, might not be back for while. How do you say "artificial reef" in Russian? "Kursk" |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:18:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Kursk" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nyet, brave missile cruiser now submarine, fighting fish Nazis. Very long mission, might not be back for while. How do you say "artificial reef" in Russian? "Kursk" Damn. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:20:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t listen to Russia. That’s for sure. It was hit by two missiles with 330lb warheads, their magazine detonated, it was 6ft waves in a storm, and it was 1AM. Plenty died but the Russian mod said the “fully evacuated” the ship. They were evacuated to the sea. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:20:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because we are at a point in this conflict that the Russians are throwing in everything including the proverbial kitchen sink. That... Was a pretty big kitchen sink.  "Sink sighted - sunk same." |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:23:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Kursk" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nyet, brave missile cruiser now submarine, fighting fish Nazis. Very long mission, might not be back for while. How do you say "artificial reef" in Russian? "Kursk" It was only a temporary artificial reef.
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:24:35 AM EDT
[#11]
It is a Special Salvage Operation®
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:24:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:25:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. "Guided missile cruiser" |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:31:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When incompetence is the better alternative you're in a bad place. Yup. Both the Russians and Ukrainians agree that the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is on fire and abandoned in rough seas. Meanwhile, tards in GD wants to argue over who gets the blame/credit. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:34:22 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:37:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope it’s their Belgrano. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This could be their Hood. I hope it’s their Belgrano. The Ukrainians don’t have a Bismarck to go after for revenge anyways so I don’t think it could be their hood anyways. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:39:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:43:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Kursk" I also say "Damn"
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:44:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:47:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Modern hi def footage of a magazine explosion would be awesome too. This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:48:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awhile ago I read a really detailed book about the Russian Baltic fleet sailing to Tsushima. The admiral in command had a bad habit. When he got mad he would throw his binoculars overboard. They stocked an extra 40 sets of binoculars aboard his ship. They were out of binoculars before they were out of sight of Europe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t think the Russians have ever been great navy wise. Compared to their Russo Japanese war antics even their naval losses in this war make them look like Admial Horatio Nelson is leading them in comparison to 1904-1905. Drachinifel on YouTube has some hilarious videos on the subject if you get bored. But for example it was the last time a capital ship was captured like in the days of sail. Awhile ago I read a really detailed book about the Russian Baltic fleet sailing to Tsushima. The admiral in command had a bad habit. When he got mad he would throw his binoculars overboard. They stocked an extra 40 sets of binoculars aboard his ship. They were out of binoculars before they were out of sight of Europe. I like the part where the do a stop for supplies and people pick up boatloads of crazy exotic wildlife for pets then they have issues with wild animals running around on their ships causing mayhem spreading disease etc. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:51:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This could be their Hood. ...theyre the aggressors like Germany was... That thing was their Bismark. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:53:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. The Moskva carried 16 P-500 anti-ship missiles that can be armed with a 1000 kg HE warhead or a 350 kt nuclear warhead. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:56:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Modern hi def footage of a magazine explosion would be awesome too. This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Or it’s just an oil slick and no sign of the Moskva ever again. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 12:57:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An escalation regardless  its a war... escalation already happened.. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:00:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Moskva carried 16 P-500 anti-ship missiles that can be armed with a 1000 kg HE warhead or a 350 kt nuclear warhead. Alright, who's got a submersible? Time to Jacques Cousteau this motherfucker. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:01:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ship was a completely legitimate target, and reasonable action for Ukraine. But that said I also was concerned about the reaction from Russia when I saw this. I get his point. I'm not even saying they shouldn't have done it, but it might have consequences. That is all I think you can assume from his post. Then again if they are trying to play it off as an accidental fire and not an attack from missiles maybe they'll shrug it off to avoid the embarrassment of admitting what happened. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:02:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:05:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Russian_cruiser_Moskva.jpg Big old ship. 12,480 tons. I sailed along side these when they were Slava class cruisers. The big Sandbox missile launchers are very impressive. That's not even as big as the training ship I sailed on as a cadet in the 1970's. That was 533' and over 17,000 tons.  I used to tow a barge that was 19,000 and change Deadweight tons. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:08:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:09:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It FIFY  |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:11:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were evacuated to the sea. You mean INTO the sea |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:23:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Great hit for Ukraine, hope it ruined Putin's week.
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:34:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were evacuated to the sea. Quoted: You mean INTO the sea Moskva crew are hereby promoted to "Special Combat Swimmers"... BIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:37:20 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That would be a horrible fucking way to die. My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. Same here. My father served from 44 to 69, fuck that noise. Army all the way! |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:40:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do people here not understand war or something? In war... the assets of the person attacking you are generally legit targets... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ship was a completely legitimate target, and reasonable action for Ukraine. But that said I also was concerned about the reaction from Russia when I saw this. I get his point. I'm not even saying they shouldn't have done it, but it might have consequences. That is all I think you can assume from his post. Then again if they are trying to play it off as an accidental fire and not an attack from missiles maybe they'll shrug it off to avoid the embarrassment of admitting what happened. Isn't that what I said ? Of course its a legitimate target. Doesn't mean it won't piss Putin off and bring retaliation though for the hit to his ego and Russian pride. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:51:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do people here not understand war or something? In war... the assets of the person attacking you are generally legit targets... War ain't no video game, folks. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:56:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Moskva crew are hereby promoted to "Special Combat Swimmers"... BIGGER_HAMMER Russian Involuntary Commando frogmen |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 1:58:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fun fact: At the fall of the USSR, they had 2 aircraft carriers, the Kuznetsov and the unfinished Varyag. The Varyag sat for years in the Mykolaiv shipyard until 1998 when Ukraine sold it to China. The Varyag is now China's first carrier, renamed the Liaoning. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/SmartSelect_20220413-221431_Brave_jpg-2348293.JPG They also had another class of carriers. One was sold to India and refitted and is in service with their navy. Two are being used as floating casinos by the ChiComs, who also studied them beforehand. I forget what happened to the fourth. They also had two big helicopter cruisers that were basically helicopter carries, as they had a sizeable helo air wing. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 2:00:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This particular ship does not carry any land-attack cruise missiles. It’s main weapons are the SS-N-12 anti-ship missile and S-300F anti-air missile. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: … This was one of the primary ships firing all the Kaliber cruise missiles into Ukraine that had been killing lots of soldiers and civilians. … This particular ship does not carry any land-attack cruise missiles. It’s main weapons are the SS-N-12 anti-ship missile and S-300F anti-air missile. It was discovered that they had acquired a land attack capability during the Russo-Georgian War, when the Moskva launched SS-N-12s at shore targets. AFAIK, though, she hadn't done the same against Ukrainian targets. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 2:05:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 2:12:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When did they get a Navy? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
They had some old leftover ex-USSR corvettes they used for coastal security. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 2:20:16 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Depends on size of warhead. For most, it probably wouldn't notice. At worst, lots of sensors trashed. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 3:05:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). Fortunately they are free'ing up a ton of O&M money this month, so there's that. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 3:21:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin will be killed by a member of his inner circle before nukes get launched. Or will he be killed by a member of the inner circle because he WON`T launch nukes. 
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Posted: 4/14/2022 3:32:59 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or will he be killed by a member of the inner circle because he WON`T launch nukes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Putin will be killed by a member of his inner circle before nukes get launched. Or will he be killed by a member of the inner circle because he WON`T launch nukes. Because rich and powerful people want to have it all taken away from them and see the world turn to ash around them? Your line of reasoning makes zero sense. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 4:20:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Wow. That's a big loss, it's not just a flagship but also a big psychological blow.
Is it confirmed sunk? Because I'm seeing some reports say it's sunk and others just that it was badly damaged. Fingers crossed. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 4:47:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Modern hi def footage of a magazine explosion would be awesome too. This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Sounds like it was a planned operation by the Ukranians. Supposedly used a Bayraktar as a distraction. I bet there’s drone footage. Will they release it…? |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An escalation regardless… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe this is the Ukrainian retaliation for Russian baby raping? An escalation regardless… Ukrainians target and destroy a military target. Russians commit war crimes. Only in clown world is this an escalation. Once again, the Putin lovers have a bad day. |
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Posted: 4/14/2022 5:27:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it confirmed sunk? Because I'm seeing some reports say it's sunk and others just that it was badly damaged. Well, sunk could be regarded as being one form of bad damage... |
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