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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:05:23 PM EDT
Supposedly. They came and collected our post sample AA-12 that our FFL got with a valid demo letter. Boss was not happy.

Reason given? The manufacture didn’t correctly mark the gun. The agent said they are going door to door collecting every post sample and semi auto AA12 because of it. He asked if we wanted to surrender our gun(we did not) so at least we got a receipt of them taking it.

For those of you that weren’t sure, the ATF can and will change rulings on a whim. And they will go door to door to collect guns.

If it pleases the crown.

This was the letter given to the boss as to why the gun was taken:

Attachment Attached File


****edited to add ATF letter that someone sent the boss, this was in response to the new semi auto’s that were being built.*****

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:07:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:07:45 PM EDT
FATF
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:08:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:08 PM EDT
Smgdh
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:17 PM EDT
What AA12 ?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:42 PM EDT
What did the markings say? Did ATF explain what was the issue?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:52 PM EDT
Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:10:57 PM EDT
What happens if you refuse to hand them over? Standoff with news choppers? Fine? Sternly worded letter?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:11:28 PM EDT
So are you out the money?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:12:33 PM EDT
The ATF can giveth and the ATF can taketh away.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:01 PM EDT
"TAKE THE GUNS FIRST! DUE PROCESS LATER!"  komrad
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:02 PM EDT
I suppose telling people they have x-number of months to either fix it themselves or ship them back to the manufacturer would be completely out of the question.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:23 PM EDT
Being that it’s a post sample I’m guessing you aren’t out a ton of money. Barely enough to justify a lawsuit.

Will the MFG be given an opportunity to make it right?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:14:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What AA12 ?
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AA-12 Shotgun in Expendables...
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:14:41 PM EDT
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:16:21 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.
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... they have neither the time nor money to do so
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:16:45 PM EDT
The fuck!?!? Sounds fishy
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:18:03 PM EDT
Footage of OP's shop if he didn't hand it over:
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:20:26 PM EDT
Seizure equals theft.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:21:37 PM EDT
How were the markings incorrect?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:22:49 PM EDT
Surely op will deliver on more details
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:24:19 PM EDT
A quick internet search has revealed no pics of the serial, nor any idea as to where it might be.  Does the AA-12 not have an externally visible s/n?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:25:59 PM EDT
In.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:26:44 PM EDT
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Quoted:
in what manner did they allege that the firearm is incorrectly marked?
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The letter states:

“ATF has determined that the markings on the AA-12 are not accurate, and the manner in which the marking were placed is not in compliance with federal law.”
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:27:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:
What AA12 ?
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All of them. Semis, post samples. No idea how many are out there.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:27:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seizure equals theft.
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Firepower makes right.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:29:14 PM EDT
people who work for the atf have the same worth to society as those who work for the irs....that is, none.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
View Quote
Wrong. They have contacted owners of semi autos and gone to collect the guns.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
View Quote
The OP said they are going to do exactly that in rounding up all the SA one sold to the public. It hasn't been out long so there won't be that many, but they will still have to invade citizen's homes to recover them.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:48 PM EDT
Registration = Confiscation
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Surely op will deliver on more details
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I’ll post what I can when I’m not at work.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:32:15 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.
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Supposedly there are some lawyers already on it. Think one of them is a member here so if he chimes in there might be more information on that.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:34:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
View Quote
Someone has a foot boot fetish.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:36:32 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Supposedly there are some lawyers already on it. Think one of them is a member here so if he chimes in there might be more information on that.
View Quote
@NoloContendere ?
Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:40:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:40:23 PM EDT
Plot twist

It wasn't the ATF, it was a few smart scumbags in a suit with some "paperwork" and a fake badge.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:41:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Plot twist

It wasn't the ATF, it was a few smart scumbags in a suit with some "paperwork" and a fake badge.
View Quote
Molder and Scully?
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:44:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Someone has a foot boot fetish.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
Someone has a foot boot fetish.
Their opinions are valued here. We wouldn't want an "Echo Chamber®" now, would we...
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:44:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

All of them. Semis, post samples. No idea how many are out there.
View Quote
I did not think there are any SEMI AA12 models available yet as the new ones that are being made have not been shipped due to ATF complications. I did just see a full auto post sample sell on Gunbroker for 20k within the last week. I was under the impression that all of the previous military used models were all full auto only. I'm beginning to worry that the semi AA12 that I purchased will never be shipped. It looks like the ATF has a hard on for the AA12.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:50:18 PM EDT
Tell them your shop does not believe in what you consider to be unjust federal laws. Tell them too that your shop is a sanctuary gun shop for undocumented firearms and that the 2nd amendment spells this out.

Berate them on their way out the door too how their agency needs to be disbanded like ICE.

Works for other causes for the left...
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:50:54 PM EDT
I know nothing about them.  Is the the AA12 that's being discussed?

Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:52:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
View Quote
How’s that boot taste.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:57:14 PM EDT
Where is the serial number on an AA12? Metal Plate? Under the shell?
Just wondering if this is ATF not knowing the rules the old AA12s where made under and applying the new standard for marking retroactively? In which case, it would suck to be a LaFrance M16 owner that has the markings on the grip boss.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 1:59:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.  
View Quote
Oh well that changes everything
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:01:18 PM EDT
The markings dont really matter. Its a bullshit call to deny people property.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:10 PM EDT
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Quoted:
"TAKE THE GUNS FIRST! DUE PROCESS LATER!"  komrad
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SYGL
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The markings dont really matter. Its a bullshit call to deny people property.
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It would be good to know what the logic is, so that we can see what the next move might be.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:16 PM EDT
Hopefully there are lawyers on it. That's fucked up and complete bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:35 PM EDT
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Quoted:
IIRC, an 07 FFL manufacturer has to mark the firearm with the following:

manufacturer's name;
city and state where the manufacturer is located;
the name of the firearm model;
the caliber/gauge;
and a unique serial number.

So which of these did the manufacturer fuck up?
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Didn’t say specifically which part. Just what I posted above from the letter.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/29/2019 2:03:14 PM EDT
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Quoted:
What happens if you refuse to hand them over? Standoff with news choppers? Fine? Sternly worded letter?
View Quote
The shoot your dog then your wife.
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