ATF just left the shop, seizing all AA-12’s due to manufacture markings***edited with atf letter

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF just left the shop, seizing all AA-12’s due to manufacture markings***edited with atf letter (Page 1 of 10)

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:05:23 PM EDT

Supposedly. They came and collected our post sample AA-12 that our FFL got with a valid demo letter. Boss was not happy.

Reason given? The manufacture didn’t correctly mark the gun. The agent said they are going door to door collecting every post sample and semi auto AA12 because of it. He asked if we wanted to surrender our gun(we did not) so at least we got a receipt of them taking it.

For those of you that weren’t sure, the ATF can and will change rulings on a whim. And they will go door to door to collect guns.

If it pleases the crown.

This was the letter given to the boss as to why the gun was taken:

Attached File

****edited to add ATF letter that someone sent the boss, this was in response to the new semi auto’s that were being built.*****

Attached File

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:07:41 PM EDT

[#1]

in what manner did they allege that the firearm is incorrectly marked?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:07:45 PM EDT

[#2]

FATF

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:08:35 PM EDT

[#3]

~~First.~~

Third.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:08 PM EDT

[#4]

Smgdh

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:17 PM EDT

[#5]

What AA12 ?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:42 PM EDT

[#6]

What did the markings say? Did ATF explain what was the issue?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:09:52 PM EDT

[#7]

Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:10:57 PM EDT

[#8]

What happens if you refuse to hand them over? Standoff with news choppers? Fine? Sternly worded letter?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:11:28 PM EDT

[#9]

So are you out the money?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:12:33 PM EDT

[#10]

The ATF can giveth and the ATF can taketh away.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:01 PM EDT

[#11]

"TAKE THE GUNS FIRST! DUE PROCESS LATER!" komrad

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:02 PM EDT

[#12]

I suppose telling people they have x-number of months to either fix it themselves or ship them back to the manufacturer would be completely out of the question.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:23 PM EDT

[#13]

Being that it’s a post sample I’m guessing you aren’t out a ton of money. Barely enough to justify a lawsuit.

Will the MFG be given an opportunity to make it right?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:14:15 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
What AA12 ?

View Quote

AA-12 Shotgun in Expendables...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdEyP5P0rYs

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:14:41 PM EDT

[#15]

Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:16:21 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.

View Quote

... they have neither the time nor money to do so

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:16:45 PM EDT

[#17]

The fuck!?!? Sounds fishy

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:18:03 PM EDT

[#18]

Footage of OP's shop if he didn't hand it over:

Failed To Load Title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpXOKSLWJuM

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:20:26 PM EDT

[#19]

Seizure equals theft.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:21:37 PM EDT

[#20]

How were the markings incorrect?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:22:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Surely op will deliver on more details

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:24:19 PM EDT

[#22]

A quick internet search has revealed no pics of the serial, nor any idea as to where it might be. Does the AA-12 not have an externally visible s/n?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:25:59 PM EDT

[#23]

In.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:26:44 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
in what manner did they allege that the firearm is incorrectly marked?

View Quote

The letter states:

“ATF has determined that the markings on the AA-12 are not accurate, and the manner in which the marking were placed is not in compliance with federal law.”

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:27:16 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
What AA12 ?

View Quote

All of them. Semis, post samples. No idea how many are out there.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:27:27 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Seizure equals theft.

View Quote

Firepower makes right.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:29:14 PM EDT

[#27]

people who work for the atf have the same worth to society as those who work for the irs....that is, none.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:23 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

View Quote

Wrong. They have contacted owners of semi autos and gone to collect the guns.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:44 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

View Quote

The OP said they are going to do exactly that in rounding up all the SA one sold to the public. It hasn't been out long so there won't be that many, but they will still have to invade citizen's homes to recover them.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Registration = Confiscation

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:30:58 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Surely op will deliver on more details

View Quote

I’ll post what I can when I’m not at work.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:32:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Uh hope you guys plan to fight it in court.

View Quote

Supposedly there are some lawyers already on it. Think one of them is a member here so if he chimes in there might be more information on that.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:34:17 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

View Quote

Someone has a ~~foot~~ boot fetish.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:36:32 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

Supposedly there are some lawyers already on it. Think one of them is a member here so if he chimes in there might be more information on that.

View Quote

@NoloContendere ?
Any thoughts?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:40:15 PM EDT

[#35]

IIRC, an 07 FFL manufacturer has to mark the firearm with the following:

manufacturer's name;
city and state where the manufacturer is located;
the name of the firearm model;
the caliber/gauge;
and a unique serial number.

So which of these did the manufacturer fuck up?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:40:23 PM EDT

[#36]

Plot twist

It wasn't the ATF, it was a few smart scumbags in a suit with some "paperwork" and a fake badge.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:41:28 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Plot twist

It wasn't the ATF, it was a few smart scumbags in a suit with some "paperwork" and a fake badge.

View Quote

Molder and Scully?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:44:33 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone has a ~~foot~~ boot fetish.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

Someone has a ~~foot~~ boot fetish.

Their opinions are valued here. We wouldn't want an "Echo Chamber®" now, would we...

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:44:48 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

All of them. Semis, post samples. No idea how many are out there.

View Quote

I did not think there are any SEMI AA12 models available yet as the new ones that are being made have not been shipped due to ATF complications. I did just see a full auto post sample sell on Gunbroker for 20k within the last week. I was under the impression that all of the previous military used models were all full auto only. I'm beginning to worry that the semi AA12 that I purchased will never be shipped. It looks like the ATF has a hard on for the AA12.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:50:18 PM EDT

[#40]

Tell them your shop does not believe in what you consider to be unjust federal laws. Tell them too that your shop is a sanctuary gun shop for undocumented firearms and that the 2nd amendment spells this out.

Berate them on their way out the door too how their agency needs to be disbanded like ICE.

Works for other causes for the left...

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:50:54 PM EDT

[#41]

I know nothing about them. Is the the AA12 that's being discussed?

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:52:55 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

View Quote

How’s that boot taste.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:57:14 PM EDT

[#43]

Where is the serial number on an AA12? Metal Plate? Under the shell?
Just wondering if this is ATF not knowing the rules the old AA12s where made under and applying the new standard for marking retroactively? In which case, it would suck to be a LaFrance M16 owner that has the markings on the grip boss.

Posted: 8/29/2019 1:59:39 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like they didn't go "door to door," but, "gun dealer to gun dealer," which is not the same as if they went into my "neighborhood" and started going "door to door" to "people's homes," seizing guns.

View Quote

Oh well that changes everything

Posted: 8/29/2019 2:01:18 PM EDT

[#45]

The markings dont really matter. Its a bullshit call to deny people property.

Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:10 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
"TAKE THE GUNS FIRST! DUE PROCESS LATER!" komrad

View Quote

SYGL

Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:16 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
The markings dont really matter. Its a bullshit call to deny people property.

View Quote

It would be good to know what the logic is, so that we can see what the next move might be.

Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:16 PM EDT

[#48]

Hopefully there are lawyers on it. That's fucked up and complete bullshit.

Posted: 8/29/2019 2:02:35 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
IIRC, an 07 FFL manufacturer has to mark the firearm with the following:

manufacturer's name;
city and state where the manufacturer is located;
the name of the firearm model;
the caliber/gauge;
and a unique serial number.

So which of these did the manufacturer fuck up?

View Quote

Didn’t say specifically which part. Just what I posted above from the letter.

Attached File