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Posted: 10/20/2021 7:49:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure they didn't really care what you said during your interview. They already had the denial prepped and ready to hit send.  It is my sincerely held moral belief that forced medical treatment is evil. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 7:56:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Winning move is not to play, indeed.
Anything you say can and will be attempted to be used against you in a court of law. For now, you have a deeply held religious conflict. The court can ask you for details if it wants them. The only thing they need to know is you can't obey that stupid command, and what you need from them to accommodate your beliefs. Then they can tell you if it's feasible or an undue hardship for them to provide the necessary accommodation. Any action or demand they make outside this legal framework is inviting a smackdown. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 8:06:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still a violation of the law. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Compared to some of the other language being used, that’s actually quite tame  Still a violation of the law. Laws...  
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Posted: 10/20/2021 8:24:33 AM EDT
[#4]
So, I logged in this morning and had an email from the Director of Labor Relations.
Here it is, names redacted- While your exemption application was under review, you were excused from Executive Order 595, signed by Governor Baker on August 19, 2021, requiring all Executive Department employees to provide proof of vaccination against the COVID-19 virus on or before October 17, 2021. Employees who fail to comply with Executive Order 595 are subject to progressive discipline, up to and including termination. You must complete the checkbox form provided below and replay to email address listed below by 5PM today, or we will assume you do not intend to comply with the Executive Order, and you will be disciplined. You should continue to report to work unless expressly directed not to report to work by your manager or Agency representative. REPLY TO THIS EMAIL after COMPLETED THE BELOW: ____ I will not comply with Executive Order 595 ____ I have received the first Moderna shot on ____ and the second is scheduled on ______. _____ I received my J&J vaccine on _____. _____ I received my first Pfizer shot on ____ and the second is scheduled to take place on ______. My Response- Despite the Commonwealths decision that my religious beliefs are invalid I will most certainly NOT be complying with Governor Bakers order. His worldly authority does not supersede my obligation to God, or to my conscience. I would think that the fact that I am wiling to lose my job is a good indicator that my beliefs are sincerely held. Sincerely, |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 8:30:16 AM EDT
[#5]
If you have not sent your response yet, I would be more inclined to ask them about the appeal process than to answer their question. All of that after consulting with a lawyer of course. I see no reason to rush giving them an answer that they will use against you.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 9:05:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have not sent your response yet, I would be more inclined to ask them about the appeal process than to answer their question. All of that after consulting with a lawyer of course. I see no reason to rush giving them an answer that they will use against you. Or create another checkbox that says, I've requested a religious exception due to my sincerely-held religious beliefs. Check. You're not failing to comply. You're in compliance because you're entitled to request an exemption. They're the ones not in compliance with federal law. Meanwhile in WV, yesterday evening our legislature passed (hasn't been signed by the governor yet, but he proposed it) a state-based exemption bill which entitles employees to a religious exemption without employer discretion to refuse it. All the employee has to do is submit a notarized certificate requesting one. Also there's an exemption for natural immunity. However, it doesn't go into effect for 90 days b/c there wasn't 2/3 support for it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 9:09:05 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 10/20/2021 9:09:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So get this. My group at work has different groups that work under different brands. But we are all managed by the same leadership. Several months ago, leadership offered people to move to one specific brand. Part of the incentive to move to the other brand was that they would be permanently work from home. Because of this promise, several people moved to other states etc. Several new people were hired for the other brand, all told its work from home. These people moved states and out of the area where you would be required to go into the office. I believe a mile limit. People started requesting accommodations for their religious exemption. The accommodation requests have been asking to work from home, just as this other brand is doing and was promised. New meeting announcement today, nobody will be allowed to work from home. If you want to keep your job and moved you must move back or move close to a business office. When every single person asked why they were promised to be permanent work from home, leadership told them "we never offered that, I dont know what youre talking about!" An example in how to kill company wide morale in an instant. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 10:45:15 AM EDT
[#9]
doubt any exemptions are being granted on "personal belief"
the tone with regard to "religious exemption" has already been set and affirmed by liberal academia, government, and courts if nearly all religious denominations have NO formal theological opposition to the vaccine (including leadership in specific denominations declaring it "morally justified" and others as a "duty"), how does anyone actually anticipate a "religious exemption" will actually be granted? short of withdrawing from your current denomination and quickly joining the Reformed Church in America or maybe Church of Christ, Scientist, probably no success will be found battling this |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:03:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: doubt any exemptions are being granted on "personal belief" the tone with regard to "religious exemption" has already been set and affirmed by liberal academia, government, and courts if nearly all religious denominations have NO formal theological opposition to the vaccine (including leadership in specific denominations declaring it "morally justified" and others as a "duty"), how does anyone actually anticipate a "religious exemption" will actually be granted? short of withdrawing from your current denomination and quickly joining the Reformed Church in America or maybe Church of Christ, Scientist, probably no success will be found battling this Have you not been tracking the discussions of Title 7, Civil Rights Act, Section 12, EEOC? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:22:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote Historyno. and you will need to be more specific if attempting to directly make a specific point |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:29:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no. and you will need to be more specific if attempting to directly make a specific point Quote HistoryQuoted: no. and you will need to be more specific if attempting to directly make a specific point His point is that the law does not require the employee to be part of a religious denomination and, even if they are in one, the employee may not believe the same things they do. So, the religious exemption is unique to the employee and the employee's specific religious objections. The company has no discretion on what constitutes the employee's beliefs, only that they be sincerely held as the statute requires. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:45:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His point is that the law does not require the employee to be part of a religious denomination and, even if they are in one, the employee may not believe the same things they do. So, the religious exemption is unique to the employee and the employee's specific religious objections. The company has no discretion on what constitutes the employee's beliefs, only that they be sincerely held as the statute requires. all fine and great when employers are willing to respect the law as written and intended. unfortunately this is not the reality that is being practiced in our current state of society. carte blanche given to question or disbelieve the "sincerity of religious beliefs" i refer you back to the 2 vaccine related examples [28] and [33]: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:49:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An example in how to kill company wide morale in an instant. Why do you think Biden team is trying to blow the door open for work visas? Business want the cheap labor. Democrats want the demographic change. Rice rabies vax is the key to moving the problem Americans out of the way and making room. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:52:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His point is that the law does not require the employee to be part of a religious denomination and, even if they are in one, the employee may not believe the same things they do. So, the religious exemption is unique to the employee and the employee's specific religious objections. The company has no discretion on what constitutes the employee's beliefs, only that they be sincerely held as the statute requires. The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:00:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. That's pretty much an impossible standard. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:16:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you think Biden team is trying to blow the door open for work visas? Business want the cheap labor. Democrats want the demographic change. Rice rabies vax is the key to moving the problem Americans out of the way and making room. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An example in how to kill company wide morale in an instant. Why do you think Biden team is trying to blow the door open for work visas? Business want the cheap labor. Democrats want the demographic change. Rice rabies vax is the key to moving the problem Americans out of the way and making room. We've seen how well that works in some industries already. Going to make things real interesting when quality drops even further. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:17:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty much an impossible standard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. That's pretty much an impossible standard. "Pretty much" is being generous. It's ironic (not) that most businesses all but universally disallow religious items or displays at work yet now you are expected to somehow magically "prove" that you have "sincerely held" religious beliefs. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:18:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty much an impossible standard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. That's pretty much an impossible standard. The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held False. Not according to decades of litigated case law at the Federal level. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. False. Literally spelled out in Federal law as flatout illegal I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. False. Literally spelled out in law and with decades of litigated case law that the standard is "take your word for it" He is using an apples to oranges comparison. Religious exemptions regarding vaccines mandates and litigated case law at the Federal level are very different than the draft issue. The only thing he actually got right is " If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough." Ironically, the Obama administration loved bringing EEOC claims against companies and hospitals that tried to force flu vaccine mandates on employees. They won most of them. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:33:34 PM EDT
[#20]
ALSO ON PAGE 1
OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:36:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. I'm sorry, dude. I really and sincerely am. I hope things work out for you. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:40:18 PM EDT
[#22]
OP is a harder mother fucker than most of us will ever hope to be. I respect the fuck out of you.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:40:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. I am very sorry to hear that you are fired. Kudos for you to sticking to your guns. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:40:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts.  That unfolded much quicker than anyone here anticipated I'm sure. We are all rooting for you and sincerely hope you find something equal or better and may your lawsuit be EPIC!
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:43:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. Excellent job OP. The right thing is rarely the easy thing. Showed more balls than 99% of GD. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:44:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: His point is that the law does not require the employee to be part of a religious denomination and, even if they are in one, the employee may not believe the same things they do. So, the religious exemption is unique to the employee and the employee's specific religious objections. The company has no discretion on what constitutes the employee's beliefs, only that they be sincerely held as the statute requires. The employee will still need to provide evidence that these beliefs are sincerely held. The company well then decide whether they think that evidence is enough. If the employee disagrees with the conclusions the company reached they can sue, and see whether a judge thinks it's enough. I guess the point is there needs to be a factual basis. No one's just going to take your word for it. A lot of the case law comes from the Vietnam war when lots of people suddenly developed religious beliefs that meant they should not be sent to fight. Beliefs they adopted right after getting a draft notice. From what the legal beagles have said, the company has to prove the religious views are not sincerely held (impossible for the company which is why the standard is the views are assumed to be sincerely held) -or- the cost to accommodate the employee's exemption would pose an undue burden on the company (which would also be extremely difficult to show due to the last 18 months). In effect, yes, the company has to take your word for it unless they have actual evidence to the contrary that a court would uphold, which is extremely unlikely. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:46:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. Sorry to hear that. File an EEOC complaint on their web site and do the same for your state's EEOC. Then consult a lawyer. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:54:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
OP, you are a good man. Hang in there, stay in the fight. This too shall pass. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:56:56 PM EDT
[#29]
thanks. I've filed for UI benefits but I expect to be denied because it's Covid refusal and they consider that "for cause".
Federal EEOC complaint filed. Lawyer discussion begins in earnest now. I'll continue to update as things transpire. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:04:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Kick ass and take names.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Sorry to hear OP. We live in clown world right now.
The deadline at my company is quickly approaching. I anticipate them denying my religious exemption and firing me as well. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:09:40 PM EDT
[#32]
OP you did good. Thank you for holding the line. Hope you get benefits, but I hope you find employment soon. One closed door is just that, a closed door. There's other doors out there.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:09:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Sorry man, this is just disgusting the way you and others are being treated. Anybody who still supports vaccines and their mandates is a freedom hating cunt who is best served living North Korea with the other assholes.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:13:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Sorry to hear that!
 You have more guts and resolve than many people in this country though, for standing on what you believe. Praying that things work out well for you!
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:18:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Prayers sent.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Sue them into oblivion
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:23:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Give 'em hell!
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:28:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Seriously, thank you for standing your ground on this.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:28:47 PM EDT
[#39]
That was a brave thing to do. We are just starting this process down here (corp is a fedgov contractor yet I never touch any fed work), and our deadline is November 24th. I still don't know that I have what it takes to stand up to them.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:30:37 PM EDT
[#40]
I hope you can find a new better job soon.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:32:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Sorry to hear that bro,
But you're doing the right thing. And a whole lot of good people are going to be in your same predicament soon. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:33:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: thanks. I've filed for UI benefits but I expect to be denied because it's Covid refusal and they consider that "for cause". Federal EEOC complaint filed. Lawyer discussion begins in earnest now. I'll continue to update as things transpire. Stay strong my friend and Godspeed |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:35:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: thanks. I've filed for UI benefits but I expect to be denied because it's Covid refusal and they consider that "for cause". Federal EEOC complaint filed. Lawyer discussion begins in earnest now. I'll continue to update as things transpire. 5 day unpaid suspension, then 10 day unpaid suspension before firing. They didn't give you any suspension and it didn't even get to 5 days at 17 Oct. ETA: It would seem that since they violated their own regulations then they fired you before they had legitimate cause. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:37:02 PM EDT
[#44]
OP, what line of work are you in? Give a mini resume here and let's see if any of us can't help find you a job with a non-commie company.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:45:19 PM EDT
[#45]
OP, you are a good man. God bless you and may he give you the strength to get through this!
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:46:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ALSO ON PAGE 1 OCTOBER 20 AFTERNOON UPDATE- ALSO POSTED PAGE 9 Just before 1 pm the director or my division and her ADC called me on a video chat. They looked like they were not happy with their task and let me know that as a probationary employee (less than 6 months) and based on my refusal to follow the unholy governors illegal order to get the clot shot I was being terminated, effective immediately. They explained a few things and verified my email address and I received my term packet while we were still talking. They were very nice about it and apologetic. Said that they had heard good things about my work there. I in turn absolved them of blame and let them know how wonderful the team of people I worked with are (I wasn't snarky or rude mostly because I wanted them to take my comments on my team mates seriously). They were obviously burdened by having to let people go. That's it. Done. Finito. I have already filed for benefits but I expect to be turned down as I was fired for what they consider cause. I worked for the Dept of Unemployment Assistance as an adjudicator and even the DUA hadn't issued a broad ruling for denials in Massachusetts. Wow. That's some bullshit. Good luck on getting some actual justice OP. Can't believe we live in a country where the government gets to decide if my religious beliefs are legitimate. Guess they better stop allowing people to wear religious clothing or hair styles then too. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Who would have thought in less than a year both private and public employers would not only be requesting detailed and personal medical info for employment, but also determining the validity of someone's religion. Clown world indeed.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laws... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Compared to some of the other language being used, that’s actually quite tame Still a violation of the law. Laws... Oh, we have laws. They are absolutely set in stone. They just aren't what legislatures write, courts rule based on, executives enforce, and most if not virtually all of them aren't written out so we can see them. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 4:05:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Guess you will get some atta boy's here.
 They going to pay your mortgage?
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Posted: 10/20/2021 4:09:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess you will get some atta boy's here. They going to pay your mortgage?"They" aka "we" are all in the same boat. I'm sorry your spine is broken and your free will is feeble. Go troll somewhere else. |
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