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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:34:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has to be "sincerely held" because that's what the statute (Civil Rights Act) says you have to have. It also has been determined by the courts that you need not be a member of a particular religious sect to sincerely hold those beliefs and you don't have to have the same beliefs as those in a particular sect even if you are a member thereof. In fact, you don't necessarily need to be of a theistic mind as such at all. It's important to start reading up on your rights and take no crap from HR. In particular, there's already a Supreme Court case that held that the employer does not get to dictate the terms of your religion and/or religious beliefs. If the are sincerely held, that's the end of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FROM FIRST POST- OCTOBER 19 UPDATE-also posted on page 7 I logged in this morning to find an email from 630 pm letting me know that my request for a religious exemption to the governors executive order was deinied. This is the body of the decision- "If an exemption is not granted, explain why: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by prolife organizations. The J&J vaccine has been deemed to be morally acceptable by religious organizations including the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. After a thorough consideration of all documents, discussions and available evidence, the direct link between a sincerely held religious belief and all three COVID-19 vaccines, and a conflict with the Governor's Executive Order, could not be ascertained."  Infuriating. Religious exemptions were never going to save us. They simply do not give a shit about your religion. This is one of my biggest issues - having to have the 'permission' from organized religion. I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I walked away from the church 30 years ago. Doesn't mean I don't still have sincerely held religious beliefs. Why does it have to be "sincerely held", not just held, and who can actually judge what my beliefs are- certainly not the Catholic Church. I'm not Catholic and what they say has zero bearing on my beliefs, that group of kiddie diddlers can't even clean up their own house. It has to be "sincerely held" because that's what the statute (Civil Rights Act) says you have to have. It also has been determined by the courts that you need not be a member of a particular religious sect to sincerely hold those beliefs and you don't have to have the same beliefs as those in a particular sect even if you are a member thereof. In fact, you don't necessarily need to be of a theistic mind as such at all. It's important to start reading up on your rights and take no crap from HR. In particular, there's already a Supreme Court case that held that the employer does not get to dictate the terms of your religion and/or religious beliefs. If the are sincerely held, that's the end of it. We're on the same page, my only point is that it's arbitrary and to add "sincerely" makes no sense, especially from a legal point of view, based on the second part of what you wrote. Accepting the tenets of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is proof of how ridiculous the whole argument is and why the state has no business in religion- almost like the founding fathers might have been pretty smart and rational for a bunch of hemp smokers. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;.... I understand that the first part of that regards an establishment of a state religion, it's the second part that acknowledges the state has no business deciding what a man believes or how he practices it. 
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:37:50 AM EDT
[#2]
So, instead of using the "fetal cell" thing, I was thinking more appropriately, and based on the Title VII info, that stating:
"Having prayed to my almighty savior, God in Heaven, I faithfully believe, in response to my prayers, I am NOT to be vaccinated for the Covid-19 virus." |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:46:49 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm afraid that having my Christian faith measured against some theocratic standard like that might make me have unchristian thoughts.
The EEOC seems to be pretty blunt and clear about this. I'm not surprised they rejected the application, but I am surprised that they would document it as being in direct violation like they did. Makes me wonder what they think/know, or have planned, that would make them feel like they could get away with it. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:50:58 AM EDT
[#4]
the state police filed an injunction and the court denied it and the corrections officers are filing now.
Its Massachusetts so I expect them to be full on leftist metal fist on this stuff. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:55:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the state police filed an injunction and the court denied it and the corrections officers are filing now. Its Massachusetts so I expect them to be full on leftist metal fist on this stuff. Out of all the States in the country, MA has fallen the furthest from what it once was. 
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:56:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm afraid that having my Christian faith measured against some theocratic standard like that might make me have unchristian thoughts. The EEOC seems to be pretty blunt and clear about this. I'm not surprised they rejected the application, but I am surprised that they would document it as being in direct violation like they did. Makes me wonder what they think/know, or have planned, that would make them feel like they could get away with it. That the current administration is going to continue running roughshod over anything they disagree with and doing exactly what they want- even if/when the courts take up one of the cases and says it violates the law the executive branch essentially ignores them, i.e. the eviction moratorium, the border crisis, etc. The rule of law in this country is, for all intents and purposes, dead and without it we are not a constitutional republic. 
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:57:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Sorry OP. This world is bullshit. What is good is bad and what is bad is good.
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:03:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's my understanding that every religious exemption lawsuit has been won so far. For COVID vax, or for previous issues? If you read the law, there's two ways to deny an accommodation: 1. Successfully claim the employee is faking it. 2. Successfully argue that accommodating the employee's needs would place an undue burden upon the employer. Telling OP "The Pope says you can take the vax" does not satisfy the first exception to the Civil Rights Act, and that goes double when the same written statement from the Pope says that your conscience reigns supreme, and a Catholic who feels more strictly about abortion offshoots than the Pope should follow his own moral code and not the Pope's. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:06:13 PM EDT
[#9]
@TimJ
If they actually put all that bullshit in writing about pro-life orgs and Catholic bishops being cool with the jabs then they don't understand how religious exemptions work. You should have fun with them in court, but go ahead and file your EEOC complaint RIGHT NOW. Section 12 of the EEOC explains that you don't have to claim the positions of any specific doctrine. It simply has to be YOUR sincerely held belief...nobody else's. The companies asking for letters from pastors and all the BS are in for a big surprise. See the last sentence here: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination Like the religious nature of a belief, observance, or practice, the sincerity of an employee’s stated religious belief is usually not in dispute and is “generally presumed or easily established.”[40] Further, the Commission and courts “are not and should not be in the business of deciding whether a person holds religious beliefs for the ‘proper’ reasons. We thus restrict our inquiry to whether or not the religious belief system is sincerely held; we do not review the motives or reasons for holding the belief in the first place.”[41] The individual’s sincerity in espousing a religious observance or practice is “largely a matter of individual credibility.”[42] Moreover, “a sincere religious believer doesn’t forfeit his religious rights merely because he is not scrupulous in his observance,”[43] although “[e]vidence tending to show that an employee acted in a manner inconsistent with his professed religious belief is, of course, relevant to the factfinder’s evaluation of sincerity.”[44] Factors that – either alone or in combination – might undermine an employee’s credibility include: whether the employee has behaved in a manner markedly inconsistent with the professed belief;[45] whether the accommodation sought is a particularly desirable benefit that is likely to be sought for secular reasons;[46] whether the timing of the request renders it suspect (e.g., it follows an earlier request by the employee for the same benefit for secular reasons);[47] and whether the employer otherwise has reason to believe the accommodation is not sought for religious reasons. However, none of these factors is dispositive. For example, although prior inconsistent conduct is relevant to the question of sincerity, an individual’s beliefs – or degree of adherence – may change over time, and therefore an employee’s newly adopted or inconsistently observed religious practice may nevertheless be sincerely held.[48] Similarly, an individual’s belief may be to adhere to a religious custom only at certain times, even though others may always adhere,[49] or, fearful of discrimination, he or she may have forgone his or her sincerely held religious practice during the application process and not revealed it to the employer until after he or she was hired or later in employment. An employer also should not assume that an employee is insincere simply because some of his or her practices deviate from the commonly followed tenets of his or her religion, or because the employee adheres to some common practices but not others.[51] As noted, courts have held that “Title VII protects more than . . . practices specifically mandated by an employee’s religion.”[52] ETA: You can file an EEOC complaint today based on what they put in writing. It doesn't require a lawyer, court date, etc. https://www.eeoc.gov/filing-charge-discrimination You might have a state level government org you can file a complaint through as well. Hit them from all sides. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:06:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That the current administration is going to continue running roughshod over anything they disagree with and doing exactly what they want- even if/when the courts take up one of the cases and says it violates the law the executive branch essentially ignores them, i.e. the eviction moratorium, the border crisis, etc. The rule of law in this country is, for all intents and purposes, dead and without it we are not a constitutional republic. Looking that way
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:11:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: "If an exemption is not granted, explain why: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. My reply to this bitch would read something like: You just admitted, in writing, that you have chosen to discriminate against my religious beliefs because they do not match the beliefs of the Chief Executive, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. Having done so, you now have two options going forward: 1. Immediately apologize to me an promise to cease all unlawful discrimination against me. 2. Explain your conduct to a Federal District Judge after I file suit. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:06:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Doesn't the OP need to wait to get fired now?
I think the ball is still in there court. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:16:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes, I am waiting for them to tell me that I am suspended without pay. For the lawsuit I have to wait until I am actually fired. According to the Commonwealth they are going to do a total of 15 days suspension before making another decision.
You ever seen Massachusetts motto? It's a real knee slapper. Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Quite the joke these days. I've begun the EEOC filing process, so thanks for that! |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:19:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I am waiting for them to tell me that I am suspended without pay. For the lawsuit I have to wait until I am actually fired. According to the Commonwealth they are going to do a total of 15 days suspension before making another decision. You ever seen Massachusetts motto? It's a real knee slapper. Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Quite the joke these days. I've begun the EEOC filing process, so thanks for that! Sorry you’re going through this shit OP. You’re not alone though. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:30:29 PM EDT
[#15]
I hope you sue them so hard their governor mansion turns into a Coleman tent from Walmart.
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:47:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's not forget, it was the Pharisees and the religious leaders of the time that had Jesus crucified. And now today, it is the "religious leaders" who are being used to decide what is right or wrong, This is just more of the same. The Pharisees are/were corrupt and today's religious leaders are exerting their same corruptness. Their focus is on earthly power, which means they no longer know god. This is all in the Bible, as I am a biblical man. The Bible is the truth. Nothing a sinful man says can override the Bible. Just more of the same in a sinful world. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 2:30:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FROM FIRST POST- OCTOBER 19 UPDATE-also posted on page 7 I logged in this morning to find an email from 630 pm letting me know that my request for a religious exemption to the governors executive order was deinied. This is the body of the decision- "If an exemption is not granted, explain why: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by prolife organizations. The J&J vaccine has been deemed to be morally acceptable by religious organizations including the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. After a thorough consideration of all documents, discussions and available evidence, the direct link between a sincerely held religious belief and all three COVID-19 vaccines, and a conflict with the Governor's Executive Order, could not be ascertained." Wow... thats hardcore. I honestly feel you have a good case at a lawsuit. Hang in there, we are holding tough with you through this. Thanks for keeping the updates coming, I'm sure you will not be the only one and all the info we can share will help others. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 3:12:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow... thats hardcore. I honestly feel you have a good case at a lawsuit. Hang in there, we are holding tough with you through this. Thanks for keeping the updates coming, I'm sure you will not be the only one and all the info we can share will help others. Yes keep sharing, i will probably be in this boat soon. I want to do everything possible to keep my job and make them hate me for not getting the vax. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 3:48:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I am waiting for them to tell me that I am suspended without pay. For the lawsuit I have to wait until I am actually fired. According to the Commonwealth they are going to do a total of 15 days suspension before making another decision. You ever seen Massachusetts motto? It's a real knee slapper. Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Quite the joke these days. I've begun the EEOC filing process, so thanks for that! I heard Robert Barnes saying that suspended without pay is the same thing as bring as being fired. And they are already proceeding in court on that. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 3:52:32 PM EDT
[#20]
The idiocy of a company to question you on your sincerely held religious beliefs.
Do they ask all followers of the Religion of Peace if their beliefs are sincere before they can wear a head scarf? Who gives a fuck what the Pope or anyone else thinks. They aren't God |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#21]
My employer just put out a "draft" religious exemption request form.
It asks the following: 1. Explain in your own words why you are requesting this religious exemption. 2. Describe the religious principles that guide your objection to receiving the COVID Vaccine. 3. Indicate and explain whether you are opposed to all vaccinations, and if not, the religious basis that prohibits you from receiving the COVID Vaccine.  |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 4:08:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard Robert Barnes saying that suspended without pay is the same thing as bring as being fired. And they are already proceeding in court on that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, I am waiting for them to tell me that I am suspended without pay. For the lawsuit I have to wait until I am actually fired. According to the Commonwealth they are going to do a total of 15 days suspension before making another decision. You ever seen Massachusetts motto? It's a real knee slapper. Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Quite the joke these days. I've begun the EEOC filing process, so thanks for that! I heard Robert Barnes saying that suspended without pay is the same thing as bring as being fired. And they are already proceeding in court on that. Correct. Constructive termination, which is a form of wrongful termination, even in an at-will State. Robert has a current case against Tyson Foods and will be filing more in several states of the next few weeks. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 4:08:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My employer just put out a "draft" religious exemption request form. It asks the following: 1. Explain in your own words why you are requesting this religious exemption. 2. Describe the religious principles that guide your objection to receiving the COVID Vaccine. 3. Indicate and explain whether you are opposed to all vaccinations, and if not, the religious basis that prohibits you from receiving the COVID Vaccine. Well, that is flat out illegal. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 4:13:35 PM EDT
[#24]
So they get to determine what beliefs of yours are sincere?
Bull Shit!! I bet if your sincere belief was you now identified as female they’d bend over backwards |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:04:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I am waiting for them to tell me that I am suspended without pay. For the lawsuit I have to wait until I am actually fired. According to the Commonwealth they are going to do a total of 15 days suspension before making another decision. You ever seen Massachusetts motto? It's a real knee slapper. Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Quite the joke these days. I've begun the EEOC filing process, so thanks for that! Keep fighting the good fight sir. You have my respect. I suspect I will be in a similar situation soon so I'm watching cases like yours with apprehension. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:28:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Well gang, "We're all in this together!"
 Seriously, thanks for the support, I am not entering into this lightheartedly and it is causing a bit of angst. But I'm not caving. Had another team member send a goodbye email, I reached out to her but haven't heard back, I'm not sure if she had a meeting or just quit when she got denied. My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and unnamed "pro-life" groups that support the vaxx. I'm not a Catholic, haven't been one in a long time, and there are plenty of pro-life groups that are against the vaxx. Anyways, stay tuned for their followup. and to be clear, this is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I'm a state employee under the Executive Department (which covers most state employees). Temporary employee, work from home. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:37:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well gang, "We're all in this together!" Seriously, thanks for the support, I am not entering into this lightheartedly and it is causing a bit of angst. But I'm not caving. Had another team member send a goodbye email, I reached out to her but haven't heard back, I'm not sure if she had a meeting or just quit when she got denied. My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and unnamed "pro-life" groups that support the vaxx. I'm not a Catholic, haven't been one in a long time, and there are plenty of pro-life groups that are against the vaxx. Anyways, stay tuned for their followup. and to be clear, this is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I'm a state employee under the Executive Department (which covers most state employees). Temporary employee, work from home. Shit like this (the response you got ) infuriates me . I truly hope you fuck them over in court |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:39:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My employer just put out a "draft" religious exemption request form. It asks the following: 1. Explain in your own words why you are requesting this religious exemption. 2. Describe the religious principles that guide your objection to receiving the COVID Vaccine. 3. Indicate and explain whether you are opposed to all vaccinations, and if not, the religious basis that prohibits you from receiving the COVID Vaccine. Compared to some of the other language being used, that’s actually quite tame 
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:44:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My employer just put out a "draft" religious exemption request form. It asks the following: 1. Explain in your own words why you are requesting this religious exemption. 2. Describe the religious principles that guide your objection to receiving the COVID Vaccine. 3. Indicate and explain whether you are opposed to all vaccinations, and if not, the religious basis that prohibits you from receiving the COVID Vaccine. Mine was very similar except the 3rd part may have been more of a supporting comments. I should have done a screencap. Be lucky its only those 3. I put all my info in the first box, in box 2 I said covered in box 1 entry. In box 3 I used my WFH and stellar employee status to remind them what the real situation was. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:44:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compared to some of the other language being used, that’s actually quite tame Still a violation of the law. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:59:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well gang, "We're all in this together!" Seriously, thanks for the support, I am not entering into this lightheartedly and it is causing a bit of angst. But I'm not caving. Had another team member send a goodbye email, I reached out to her but haven't heard back, I'm not sure if she had a meeting or just quit when she got denied. My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and unnamed "pro-life" groups that support the vaxx. I'm not a Catholic, haven't been one in a long time, and there are plenty of pro-life groups that are against the vaxx. Anyways, stay tuned for their followup. and to be clear, this is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I'm a state employee under the Executive Department (which covers most state employees). Temporary employee, work from home. I was a fucking stressball over this. Before my RE was accepted I had a moment of clarity and just resolved to fight and whatever happened happened and at the end of the day I stood my ground. I have no illusion my RE affords me any protections at this point because who knows what other angle they may play next. I am aware and ready to counter those as well. My sincere advice for people submitting REs. DO NOT state your religious affiliation. DO NOT use this feeble aborted baby fetus argument. DO NOT quite a bunch of scripture. DO NOT give them strings to pull at. PERIOD DO keep it short, concise, and framed in legalities and rights. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:06:13 PM EDT
[#32]
So get this. My group at work has different groups that work under different brands. But we are all managed by the same leadership.
Several months ago, leadership offered people to move to one specific brand. Part of the incentive to move to the other brand was that they would be permanently work from home. Because of this promise, several people moved to other states etc. Several new people were hired for the other brand, all told its work from home. These people moved states and out of the area where you would be required to go into the office. I believe a mile limit. People started requesting accommodations for their religious exemption. The accommodation requests have been asking to work from home, just as this other brand is doing and was promised. New meeting announcement today, nobody will be allowed to work from home. If you want to keep your job and moved you must move back or move close to a business office. When every single person asked why they were promised to be permanent work from home, leadership told them "we never offered that, I dont know what youre talking about!" |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:21:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FROM FIRST POST- OCTOBER 19 UPDATE-also posted on page 7 I logged in this morning to find an email from 630 pm letting me know that my request for a religious exemption to the governors executive order was deinied. This is the body of the decision- "If an exemption is not granted, explain why: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by prolife organizations. The J&J vaccine has been deemed to be morally acceptable by religious organizations including the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. After a thorough consideration of all documents, discussions and available evidence, the direct link between a sincerely held religious belief and all three COVID-19 vaccines, and a conflict with the Governor's Executive Order, could not be ascertained." "You don't agree with the clergy who agree with me, therefore, we will coerce your conscience and you can just go to hell. NYAAAAHHHH" Is how I read that. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:23:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clearly the collectivist heathen does not understand how personal religious beliefs work. A man’s faith is not determined by “profile organizations”. I would appeal on those grounds. Quote HistoryQuoted: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by prolife organizations. The J&J vaccine has been deemed to be morally acceptable by religious organizations including the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. Clearly the collectivist heathen does not understand how personal religious beliefs work. A man’s faith is not determined by “profile organizations”. I would appeal on those grounds. It's not about religion. They're conscience protections. It just happens that peoples religious beliefs usually cover the territory of conscience beliefs. The hidebound bigots who gleefully want to force everyone to believe and act like themselves see a system and try to game it (without even understand it). |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:26:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of all the States in the country, MA has fallen the furthest from what it once was. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: the state police filed an injunction and the court denied it and the corrections officers are filing now. Its Massachusetts so I expect them to be full on leftist metal fist on this stuff. Out of all the States in the country, MA has fallen the furthest from what it once was. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:30:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My reply to this would read something like: You just admitted, in writing, that you have chosen to discriminate against my religious beliefs because they do not match the beliefs of the Chief Executive, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. Having done so, you now have two options going forward: 1. Immediately apologize to me an promise to cease all unlawful discrimination against me. 2. Explain your conduct to a Federal District Judge after I file suit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "If an exemption is not granted, explain why: Based upon my conversation with you on October 13, 2021 it is my understanding that you are asserting that your sincerely held beliefs are inconsistent with the requirements of the Executive Order. My reply to this would read something like: You just admitted, in writing, that you have chosen to discriminate against my religious beliefs because they do not match the beliefs of the Chief Executive, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. Having done so, you now have two options going forward: 1. Immediately apologize to me an promise to cease all unlawful discrimination against me. 2. Explain your conduct to a Federal District Judge after I file suit.  Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (10/10) Movie CLIP - He Chose Poorly (1989) HD "You chose poorly." |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:34:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My employer just put out a "draft" religious exemption request form. It asks the following: 1. Explain in your own words why you are requesting this religious exemption. 2. Describe the religious principles that guide your objection to receiving the COVID Vaccine. 3. Indicate and explain whether you are opposed to all vaccinations, and if not, the religious basis that prohibits you from receiving the COVID Vaccine. 4. We are just looking for any excuse to fire you. Please provide us the rope to hang you with, Signed, dishonest actors. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 6:40:07 PM EDT
[#38]
We are past Idiocracy and into Covidacracy.
Remember how the courts worked in Idiocracy? Well now your employer is mocking you by saying "your faith is all fucked up and you talk like a fag." We shall see how this plays out in court I guess. COVID, it's got what tyrants crave. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 7:59:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again from the last page EEOC Section 12 [21] The Supreme Court has made it clear that it is not a court’s role to determine the reasonableness of an individual’s religious beliefs, and that “religious beliefs need not be acceptable, logical, consistent, or comprehensible to others in order to merit First Amendment protection.”[22] An employee’s belief, observance, or practice can be “religious” under Title VII even if the employee is affiliated with a religious group that does not espouse or recognize that individual’s belief, observance, or practice, or if few – or no – other people adhere to it I think I would cordially remind them of that part of the law in bold OP shouldn’t remind the employer of a damn thing. OP has the employer by the nuts! He can go get another job and use his free time with a lawyer suing this companies ass off. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 8:07:57 PM EDT
[#40]
I guess it's a life of crime for you.
It's abhorrent that the US government and it's agents (gov & private) are evaluating a Citizen's religious convictions. Just print off the vaccine card, fill it out with convenient facebook look at me I'm a vaxxed virtue signaling person posting, and voila! You're a citizen again. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 8:32:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are past Idiocracy and into Covidacracy. Remember how the courts worked in Idiocracy? Well now your employer is mocking you by saying "your faith is all fucked up and you talk like a fag." We shall see how this plays out in court I guess. COVID, it's got what tyrants crave. That made me laugh my ass off...thanks.  I'd never print a fake vaccine card. That would be dishonest. Honest anyone who searches for my threads for later, I would never do that. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:27:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well gang, "We're all in this together!" Seriously, thanks for the support, I am not entering into this lightheartedly and it is causing a bit of angst. But I'm not caving. Had another team member send a goodbye email, I reached out to her but haven't heard back, I'm not sure if she had a meeting or just quit when she got denied. My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and unnamed "pro-life" groups that support the vaxx. I'm not a Catholic, haven't been one in a long time, and there are plenty of pro-life groups that are against the vaxx. Anyways, stay tuned for their followup. and to be clear, this is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I'm a state employee under the Executive Department (which covers most state employees). Temporary employee, work from home. I commend you. In a post earlier I said we will all be in this position soon. I think this bullshit injection is going to be required in order to work anywhere even your own business, go to the grocery store, get health insurance, have a driver's license, access your 401k, etc. We will see, but I don't think it ends with government contractors and companies over 100 employees. That is just one step. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 11:02:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well gang, "We're all in this together!" Seriously, thanks for the support, I am not entering into this lightheartedly and it is causing a bit of angst. But I'm not caving. Had another team member send a goodbye email, I reached out to her but haven't heard back, I'm not sure if she had a meeting or just quit when she got denied. My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and unnamed "pro-life" groups that support the vaxx. I'm not a Catholic, haven't been one in a long time, and there are plenty of pro-life groups that are against the vaxx. Anyways, stay tuned for their followup. and to be clear, this is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I'm a state employee under the Executive Department (which covers most state employees). Temporary employee, work from home. Unless you have committed formal apostasy, you're still Catholic. Even if you're a heretic, you're still Catholic, albeit you're what's called a dead member of the Church (same as anyone in mortal sin). That said, your religion is not the determining factor, even if you were a living member of the Church (a member in state of grace). While there are many broods of vipers in the USCCB, there are plenty who have come out against it. Among many, you have the Colorado bishops, Confraternity of Our Lady of Fatima, the Archbishop of the Military Services USA, and many others. I mention the above to point out that, if they were going to deny it, giving the reason they did for denial should work in your favor because (1) that reason seems to contradict case law and (2) the Catholic position as they understand it is wrong (see the third post in this page). If there is an appeal process, bring a lawyer this time. God bless you for fighting it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:50:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Did they ask you to tell them about your mother?
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:10:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops...... That is a major problem and a big indicator. They're assuming that the catholic church (the pope essentially) is the final christian word on this. And by that they're giving power to the catholic church. Never mind that its laid out plainly in the Bible and other historic proofs that church is fake christianity. Of course thats an another argument all together and Im sure someone reading this will get their feathers ruffled. The point is, this mandate is not only being pushed by the government, but its being backed by "religion." That smacks EXACTLY of how the beast power and the false prophet will operate in the end time to force the mark; gov and religion hand in hand. Flame suit on (Disclaimer: the vaxx isn't the mark btw) |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:40:35 AM EDT
[#46]
Pretty sure they didn't really care what you said during your interview. They already had the denial prepped and ready to hit send.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 4:43:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still a violation of the law. No argument from me there |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:30:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a major problem and a big indicator. They're assuming that the catholic church (the pope essentially) is the final christian word on this. And by that they're giving power to the catholic church. Never mind that its laid out plainly in the Bible and other historic proofs that church is fake christianity. Of course thats an another argument all together and Im sure someone reading this will get their feathers ruffled. The point is, this mandate is not only being pushed by the government, but its being backed by "religion." That smacks EXACTLY of how the beast power and the false prophet will operate in the end time to force the mark; gov and religion hand in hand. Flame suit on (Disclaimer: the vaxx isn't the mark btw) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My biggest problem with the denial is that they referred to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops...... That is a major problem and a big indicator. They're assuming that the catholic church (the pope essentially) is the final christian word on this. And by that they're giving power to the catholic church. Never mind that its laid out plainly in the Bible and other historic proofs that church is fake christianity. Of course thats an another argument all together and Im sure someone reading this will get their feathers ruffled. The point is, this mandate is not only being pushed by the government, but its being backed by "religion." That smacks EXACTLY of how the beast power and the false prophet will operate in the end time to force the mark; gov and religion hand in hand. Flame suit on (Disclaimer: the vaxx isn't the mark btw) 100% agreed. It is eerie to witness and recognize the parallels. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:47:47 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure they didn't really care what you said during your interview. They already had the denial prepped and ready to hit send. I believe that as well. Anyway, I am trying to do my part, if anything I'm a grain of sand causing an itch somewhere, I hope. Here's a local TV report on the overall situation. https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/unvaccinated-state-workers-in-massachusetts-now-at-risk-of-losing-their-jobs/ |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 7:44:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am trying to do my part, if anything I'm a grain of sand causing an itch somewhere, I hope. |
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