[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 11 of 12)
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Quoted: Try getting a permit to mine in California. You can have then anyone else, but if you can’t access it what good is it? The mines are already approved, CARB is balls deep in on it, they even have lithium pipe lines planned. There are a few technical issues holding it back currently, but the state is dumping money into it to solve it. |
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Quoted: I’d have to ask a friend of mine what’s up and the status. We talked about them at New Years he works for BPA, and was telling me about project and the permitting. He said they chose Idaho Falls due to their nuclear history and felt permitting would be easier without as many objections. It’s a interesting setup from his explanation, the hard sell is that one evil word, “nuclear”, even though it’s second best form of generation followed by hydro. If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. |
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Quoted: If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. Quoted: Quoted: I’d have to ask a friend of mine what’s up and the status. We talked about them at New Years he works for BPA, and was telling me about project and the permitting. He said they chose Idaho Falls due to their nuclear history and felt permitting would be easier without as many objections. It’s a interesting setup from his explanation, the hard sell is that one evil word, “nuclear”, even though it’s second best form of generation followed by hydro. If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. Be kinda poetic if Nukes make a comeback in the NW as the NW is what killed them. |
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Quoted: There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know where all of the lithium is going to come from for all of the battery packs that will be needed for all those battery powered cars? Most of the proven lithium supplies come from mines in China. And they are not exactly friends right now. It's only going to get worse from here. Let's say CA decides to go to mandatory battery powered cars. No gas, no diesel, nothing but tarted up golf carts for the masses. You get a battery powered car or you don't get around. That's being talked about there, isn't it? CA has just under 40 million people in the '20 census. So, 30 million people will need cars and all they can get is battery powered cars. That's 30 million battery packs, and we're not talking about a pair of AAs. The packs for each car are big, and heavy. And very expensive. Sounds like a lot of lithium will be needed for that many batteries. Adding 30 million chargers onto a grid that's marginal already is going to work out... how? Seems that 30 million extra 240 VAC lines won't be a small draw. It's going to be a big one. Will that effect the monthly electricity bill? I presume all of that extra juice isn't going to be "free." Whatever people save at the pump will simply be added to their electric bill. And that's not going to be cheap. Someone has to pay for all of that juice. And the hypothetical covers just one state, CA. Now imagine the multiplication over the 49 other states, and the rest of the world. Future tech may solve the battery problem, but it has not solved it yet. For now, lithium is how batteries like that are made. And there's only so much of it available. How are we getting around that little problem? And, as I asked before, these batteries can spontaneously combust. When they do, the fire cannot be extinguished by conventional means. And it can burn for days. What if that happens in a parking garage? While you're in bumper to bumper traffic? Lots of problems and the solutions are sketchy, at best. At least for now, with the level of tech that's out there. There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. I think Canada and the western US have lithium in the ground, the problem is getting the approval to mine it. Right now it's just cheaper to buy it from other countries. |
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Quoted: My Eversource electric bill has literally doubled in the last year, and you want me to plug a car in now? Fuck right the fuck off Eversource. Maybe it's different where you are, but in the last two years gasoline prices have nearly doubled here....along with pretty much every other daily consumable. |
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Quoted: There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. CA has approved strip mining their state? Lol, they are the HQ of environmental Nazism. I don't see them sacrificing their state to provide lithium for battery powered cars. It's easier to get it from China, for now. And that doesn't address any of the other problems with battery powered cars. The batteries themselves create a dangerous, toxic mess when they have to be disposed of. Replacements are huge money. And when they spontaneously catch on fire, even without wreck damage, what then? So everyone charges at home. Imagine running a clothes dryer 14 hours a day, every day of the year. That's going to add nothing to an electric bill? You've obviously never used an electric clothes dryer before. Maybe in fantasy world, your power usage won't increase. In the real world, it's going to drastically increase the bill. And you still have to buy the battery powered car, and they are still extremely expensive. You going to kick in some of your own money to pay so everyone gets one? CA is barely hanging on with their grid as it is. Adding 30 million plug in cars is laughably short-sighted. CA would need to vastly beef up its power generation. And I don't mean toss up a few solar panels. The entire plan is half-baked by people suffering from pie in the sky disease. And that's presuming there's no sinister element to this weird, insane push to force everyone to convert to battery power for their vehicles. They tech isn't there yet for battery powered cars to completely replace gas vehicles. Saying that it is sounds wonderful, but it's not reality no matter how aggressively it's argued. There's still a generation or three to go before the tech catches up with the real world. |
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Quoted: If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. Quoted: Quoted: I’d have to ask a friend of mine what’s up and the status. We talked about them at New Years he works for BPA, and was telling me about project and the permitting. He said they chose Idaho Falls due to their nuclear history and felt permitting would be easier without as many objections. It’s a interesting setup from his explanation, the hard sell is that one evil word, “nuclear”, even though it’s second best form of generation followed by hydro. If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. Yea the retard in this world today is unreal. |
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Quoted: Be kinda poetic if Nukes make a comeback in the NW as the NW is what killed them. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’d have to ask a friend of mine what’s up and the status. We talked about them at New Years he works for BPA, and was telling me about project and the permitting. He said they chose Idaho Falls due to their nuclear history and felt permitting would be easier without as many objections. It’s a interesting setup from his explanation, the hard sell is that one evil word, “nuclear”, even though it’s second best form of generation followed by hydro. If they have a chance in hell of breaching the dams on the snake river, they are going to have to embrace nuclear power. Be kinda poetic if Nukes make a comeback in the NW as the NW is what killed them. Three mile island started the death of nuclear power in the USA, Chernobyl and Japan just keep them still born. |
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Quoted: The mines are already approved, CARB is balls deep in on it, they even have lithium pipe lines planned. There are a few technical issues holding it back currently, but the state is dumping money into it to solve it. Quoted: Quoted: Try getting a permit to mine in California. You can have then anyone else, but if you can’t access it what good is it? The mines are already approved, CARB is balls deep in on it, they even have lithium pipe lines planned. There are a few technical issues holding it back currently, but the state is dumping money into it to solve it. Until material is being removed permits don’t mean shit. I’ve seen two gold mines here shut down after they were in production, all it takes is one wrong test or objections from the “public” to kill something. I saw it take 10 years to get a permit to stabilize a shoreline here behind one dam. There were actually two sides fighting each other over salmon. It’s shit like this you can not make up. When one of the mines permit was pulled, the run off into Columbia River was to high in arsenic funny thing is there was none from the new mine but as a precaution just in case they lost their permit to avoid future higher concentrations. More shit you can’t make up. |
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Quoted: Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good.  Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Wait till you come out one morning to find your car battery at the same level it was the night before because the grid operator dialed into your car and shutdown the charging to reduce grid loads. Or worse the Grid operator decided to use your EV to support the grid and now it needs to charge before you can drive it. https://www.tdworld.com/electrification/article/21168252/how-will-the-grid-adjust-to-ev-charging My company is working with one of the majors to develop this system for grid operators, the software is in Beta. The EV's already have the communications and software built into them. |
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Quoted: So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. |
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Quoted: There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know where all of the lithium is going to come from for all of the battery packs that will be needed for all those battery powered cars? Most of the proven lithium supplies come from mines in China. And they are not exactly friends right now. It's only going to get worse from here. Let's say CA decides to go to mandatory battery powered cars. No gas, no diesel, nothing but tarted up golf carts for the masses. You get a battery powered car or you don't get around. That's being talked about there, isn't it? CA has just under 40 million people in the '20 census. So, 30 million people will need cars and all they can get is battery powered cars. That's 30 million battery packs, and we're not talking about a pair of AAs. The packs for each car are big, and heavy. And very expensive. Sounds like a lot of lithium will be needed for that many batteries. Adding 30 million chargers onto a grid that's marginal already is going to work out... how? Seems that 30 million extra 240 VAC lines won't be a small draw. It's going to be a big one. Will that effect the monthly electricity bill? I presume all of that extra juice isn't going to be "free." Whatever people save at the pump will simply be added to their electric bill. And that's not going to be cheap. Someone has to pay for all of that juice. And the hypothetical covers just one state, CA. Now imagine the multiplication over the 49 other states, and the rest of the world. Future tech may solve the battery problem, but it has not solved it yet. For now, lithium is how batteries like that are made. And there's only so much of it available. How are we getting around that little problem? And, as I asked before, these batteries can spontaneously combust. When they do, the fire cannot be extinguished by conventional means. And it can burn for days. What if that happens in a parking garage? While you're in bumper to bumper traffic? Lots of problems and the solutions are sketchy, at best. At least for now, with the level of tech that's out there. There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. And CA will never let it be extracted much less processed for use. It is an absolutely nasty process to refine lithium and makes the green of green tech very questionable. Peter Zeihan on EV's, hint if you're doing it for the environment it's not helping. :  EV's Not-so-little Dirty Secret(s) |
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Quoted: every night in your garage you plug into your charger. every morning you have equivalent to 3/4 to a full tank of gasoline. who uses more gas than that in a single day? how is that a logistical problem? Assuming the grid can supply the power, for now sure...... |
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Quoted: I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Maybe in your area if you're rural, but unlikely in my area. Nice try though. |
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Quoted: I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Yes we have internet almost everywhere, but our electrical grid is basically unchanged from the late 60’s early 70’s, what we have done is increased demand and expanded it outward but the basic mains are unchanged. |
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Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. Agree on this. Ev great for around town short commutes where you can do on one charge. Gas engine for road trips. |
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Quoted: Absolutely ICE isnt going anywhere for quite some time. EVs will work perfectly for the vast majority of drivers. There are some very large voids in the EV infrastructure plan. |
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Quoted: Yes we have internet almost everywhere, but our electrical grid is basically unchanged from the late 60’s early 70’s, what we have done is increased demand and expanded it outward but the basic mains are unchanged. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Yes we have internet almost everywhere, but our electrical grid is basically unchanged from the late 60’s early 70’s, what we have done is increased demand and expanded it outward but the basic mains are unchanged. Is there the same outrage for people who have an extra fridge in the garage, multiple deep freezes or keeps their AC set on 65 degrees in the summer? None of that was common in the 60's, yet people kept adding load to the grid.....are all those people using welfare appliances because they're forcing electric rates higher for everyone else? |
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Quoted: So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Z Wait till you come out one morning to find your car battery at the same level it was the night before because the grid operator dialed into your car and shutdown the charging to reduce grid loads. Or worse the Grid operator decided to use your EV to support the grid and now it needs to charge before you can drive it. https://www.tdworld.com/electrification/article/21168252/how-will-the-grid-adjust-to-ev-charging My company is working with one of the majors to develop this system for grid operators, the software is in Beta. The EV's already have the communications and software built into them. Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. |
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Quoted: Is there the same outrage for people who have an extra fridge in the garage, multiple deep freezes or keeps their AC set on 65 degrees in the summer? None of that was common in the 60's, yet people kept adding load to the grid.....are all those people using welfare appliances because they're forcing electric rates higher for everyone else? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Yes we have internet almost everywhere, but our electrical grid is basically unchanged from the late 60’s early 70’s, what we have done is increased demand and expanded it outward but the basic mains are unchanged. Is there the same outrage for people who have an extra fridge in the garage, multiple deep freezes or keeps their AC set on 65 degrees in the summer? None of that was common in the 60's, yet people kept adding load to the grid.....are all those people using welfare appliances because they're forcing electric rates higher for everyone else? Well I’m one of those, I have two freezers and two refrigerators. I also have two washers and two dryers. Why? When I built my house we had three kids at home, sports, my work and other activities so they were required, now their nice as you can do laundry once or twice a week and be done. Having multiple freezers and refrigerators was nice as well as you could go to Costco and stock up for a month or more, again savings. When I built my house I over insulated so while I have dual heat pumps I can set them and maintain more consistent temperatures, also by having two heat pumps the upper one can run less since in reality it’s just boosting the downstairs, the down stairs also runs less so while I have two systems they actually cost less to run. You just also made my point, houses with the minimum insulation and undersized heat pumps have to run at lower or higher settings due to their inefficiency. |
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Quoted: So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Wait till you come out one morning to find your car battery at the same level it was the night before because the grid operator dialed into your car and shutdown the charging to reduce grid loads. Or worse the Grid operator decided to use your EV to support the grid and now it needs to charge before you can drive it. https://www.tdworld.com/electrification/article/21168252/how-will-the-grid-adjust-to-ev-charging My company is working with one of the majors to develop this system for grid operators, the software is in Beta. The EV's already have the communications and software built into them. Here's another one: The System decided that your Social Credit Score was too low because you sent some mean tweets, or you shared a pro 2nd Amendment meme on Facebook, or you posted a flyer about attending a city council meeting to discuss the "unlawful" restrictions being considered, so your charging was limited or shut off. Toe the line, peasant! |
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Quoted: Maybe in your area if you're rural, but unlikely in my area. Nice try though. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. I hope you don't enjoy high speed internet at your place, because the same argument applies. The government has dumped loads of money into infrastructure upgrades for internet access all over the country. Maybe in your area if you're rural, but unlikely in my area. Nice try though. Do you live anywhere on this list? One of the eligible uses for those funds was infrastructure upgrades, including broadband internet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSWGBm5MPMEhKRqNeGN_CsSIQwJ6nfywj4x7rvU1Ux3WOpDL156S-w3k0UJcEglJQ/pubhtml?gid=109503209&single=true |
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Quoted: Here's another one: The System decided that your Social Credit Score was too low because you sent some mean tweets, or you shared a pro 2nd Amendment meme on Facebook, or you posted a flyer about attending a city council meeting to discuss the "unlawful" restrictions being considered, so your charging was limited or shut off. Toe the line, peasant! Quoted: Quoted: So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Wait till you come out one morning to find your car battery at the same level it was the night before because the grid operator dialed into your car and shutdown the charging to reduce grid loads. Or worse the Grid operator decided to use your EV to support the grid and now it needs to charge before you can drive it. https://www.tdworld.com/electrification/article/21168252/how-will-the-grid-adjust-to-ev-charging My company is working with one of the majors to develop this system for grid operators, the software is in Beta. The EV's already have the communications and software built into them. Here's another one: The System decided that your Social Credit Score was too low because you sent some mean tweets, or you shared a pro 2nd Amendment meme on Facebook, or you posted a flyer about attending a city council meeting to discuss the "unlawful" restrictions being considered, so your charging was limited or shut off. Toe the line, peasant! I don't understand this line of thinking being limited to EV's.....assuming we get to the point that the .gov is limiting travel, why wouldn't they do it for ICE too? They're already in bed with the big banks, I'm sure it wouldn't be that complicated to restrict someone's debit / credit cards at gas stations. Most people don't keep that much cash on hand to bypass that system. If they want to restrict your travel, they'll find a way. |
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Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. Attached File  |
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Quoted: Imagine running a clothes dryer 14 hours a day, every day of the year. That's going to add nothing to an electric bill? You've obviously never used an electric clothes dryer before. Maybe in fantasy world, your power usage won't increase. In the real world, it's going to drastically increase the bill. And you still have to buy OK lets assume I'm going to use 30Kwh Every day charging an EV pickup. that's 900Kwh a month. at 0.124/Kwh. or $111.6 per month. Or I drive a gasoline pickup and spend a minimum of $350 a month on fuel. In an environment where both the state and federal government are doing what they can to push fuel costs higher. Buying a vehicle, I look out 5-10 years. Fuel prices will be forced up by increased taxation and more restricting regulations in the near term. I live in a world based on reality where the decks are tilted in one direction. |
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Quoted: I don't understand this line of thinking being limited to EV's.....assuming we get to the point that the .gov is limiting travel, why wouldn't they do it for ICE too? They're already in bed with the big banks, I'm sure it wouldn't be that complicated to restrict someone's debit / credit cards at gas stations. Most people don't keep that much cash on hand to bypass that system. If they want to restrict your travel, they'll find a way. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So you're enjoying your welfare car that is subsidized by US taxpayers through credits no road use taxes and higher electric rates for everyone else because you're using the grid for something it was never designed to be used for. Wait till you come out one morning to find your car battery at the same level it was the night before because the grid operator dialed into your car and shutdown the charging to reduce grid loads. Or worse the Grid operator decided to use your EV to support the grid and now it needs to charge before you can drive it. https://www.tdworld.com/electrification/article/21168252/how-will-the-grid-adjust-to-ev-charging My company is working with one of the majors to develop this system for grid operators, the software is in Beta. The EV's already have the communications and software built into them. Here's another one: The System decided that your Social Credit Score was too low because you sent some mean tweets, or you shared a pro 2nd Amendment meme on Facebook, or you posted a flyer about attending a city council meeting to discuss the "unlawful" restrictions being considered, so your charging was limited or shut off. Toe the line, peasant! I don't understand this line of thinking being limited to EV's.....assuming we get to the point that the .gov is limiting travel, why wouldn't they do it for ICE too? They're already in bed with the big banks, I'm sure it wouldn't be that complicated to restrict someone's debit / credit cards at gas stations. Most people don't keep that much cash on hand to bypass that system. If they want to restrict your travel, they'll find a way. Shit most of the tards on there that think they're going to syphon gas in a TEOTWAWKI situation don't realize cars now have anti-syphon devices built in (not hard to defeat but still a PITA...). |
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Quoted: Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. Quoted: Quoted: But how many of those passenger vehicles owners live in apartments.? I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . But again the bottom line in this EV nonsense is OUR CURRENT ELECTRICAL SUPPLY CAN NOT SUPPORT MORE ELECTRICAL DEMAND WITHOUT BUILDING 1: NEW ELECTRICAL GENERATION PLANTS AND 2: AN IMPROVED ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM. Fix this first then let the FREE MARKET decide who wants EVs. Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. The problem is that some states, like my current shithole communist state, have banned the sale of all ice vehicles and engines starting 2035. 12 years from now, and there is no plan and no regard for all the people that will need a new vehicle and will not have the ability to charge at home due to lack of garage, lack of close parking, lack of sufficient service in their dwelling, and lack of infrastructure to allow a big chunk of the population to charge those vehicles at the same time, over night, when not being used. Most of the new 'generation' coming on line is solar and wind. While wind will work at night when vehicles need to be charged, if the wind is blowing, solar will not produce at night. So the reality is, a bulk of the new generation capability will not work for charging vehicles at home and never will. I don't mind EVs, what I hate is the tyranical laws passed by govt forcing it down everybody's throat with no plans or money to upgrade infrastructure to make it plausibly possible. The only plausible explanation for this is there is an agenda to eliminate personal transportation for the masses because nobody is stupid enough to think this will work without major money and major time. MA and CA have 12 years to do massive infrastructure upgrades and they aren't even thinking about it. |
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Quoted: The problem is that some states, like my current shithole communist state, have banned the sale of all ice vehicles and engines starting 2035. 12 years from now, and there is no plan and no regard for all the people that will need a new vehicle and will not have the ability to charge at home due to lack of garage, lack of close parking, lack of sufficient service in their dwelling, and lack of infrastructure to allow a big chunk of the population to charge those vehicles at the same time, over night, when not being used. Most of the new 'generation' coming on line is solar and wind. While wind will work at night when vehicles need to be charged, if the wind is blowing, solar will not produce at night. So the reality is, a bulk of the new generation capability will not work for charging vehicles at home and never will. I don't mind EVs, what I hate is the tyranical laws passed by govt forcing it down everybody's throat with no plans or money to upgrade infrastructure to make it plausibly possible. The only plausible explanation for this is there is an agenda to eliminate personal transportation for the masses because nobody is stupid enough to think this will work without major money and major time. MA and CA have 12 years to do massive infrastructure upgrades and they aren't even thinking about it. When it fails miserably some politician will ride in to save the people by pushing out the date of the mandate a few years. Just like they did with the original Zero emission mandate. The State has successfully mandated changes in industry for decades simply because it is the largest market in the country and vehicle manufacturers want to serve it. |
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New lithium mine in Nevada just approved: RENO — A federal appeals court refused March 1 to block construction of the largest lithium mine in the U.S. while it considers claims by Nevada conservationists and tribes that the government illegally approved it in a rush to produce raw materials for electric vehicle batteries. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied a request for an emergency injunction that would have prevented a subsidiary of Lithium Americas from moving forward with the project near the Oregon line at the third largest known lithium deposit in the world. Construction was underway March 1, company spokesperson Tim Crowley confirmed in an email to The Associated Press. Reserves at the Thacker Pass mine, expected to begin production by the end of 2026 in Humboldt County, would support lithium for more than 1.5 million electric vehicles per year for 40 years, the company said. “There are no other U.S. alternatives to Thacker Pass to provide lithium at the scale, grade or timeline necessary to begin closing the gap between the lithium available and the lithium needed to achieve the U.S.’s clean energy and transportation goals,” its lawyers wrote. Du “reasonably weighed the public interest and balance of harms, noting that the lithium from this mine is a critical component of electric vehicle batteries, and thus an important domestic resource for reducing greenhouse gas emissions,” Biden administration lawyers representing BLM said in appellate filings Feb. 28. Lithium Nevada said it already has invested over $150 million in the mine, and projects capital costs of $2.3 billion for its first phase. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? |
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Quoted: See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. |
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Quoted: The problem is that some states, like my current shithole communist state, have banned the sale of all ice vehicles and engines starting 2035. 12 years from now, and there is no plan and no regard for all the people that will need a new vehicle and will not have the ability to charge at home due to lack of garage, lack of close parking, lack of sufficient service in their dwelling, and lack of infrastructure to allow a big chunk of the population to charge those vehicles at the same time, over night, when not being used. Most of the new 'generation' coming on line is solar and wind. While wind will work at night when vehicles need to be charged, if the wind is blowing, solar will not produce at night. So the reality is, a bulk of the new generation capability will not work for charging vehicles at home and never will. I don't mind EVs, what I hate is the tyranical laws passed by govt forcing it down everybody's throat with no plans or money to upgrade infrastructure to make it plausibly possible. The only plausible explanation for this is there is an agenda to eliminate personal transportation for the masses because nobody is stupid enough to think this will work without major money and major time. MA and CA have 12 years to do massive infrastructure upgrades and they aren't even thinking about it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But how many of those passenger vehicles owners live in apartments.? I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . But again the bottom line in this EV nonsense is OUR CURRENT ELECTRICAL SUPPLY CAN NOT SUPPORT MORE ELECTRICAL DEMAND WITHOUT BUILDING 1: NEW ELECTRICAL GENERATION PLANTS AND 2: AN IMPROVED ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM. Fix this first then let the FREE MARKET decide who wants EVs. Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. The problem is that some states, like my current shithole communist state, have banned the sale of all ice vehicles and engines starting 2035. 12 years from now, and there is no plan and no regard for all the people that will need a new vehicle and will not have the ability to charge at home due to lack of garage, lack of close parking, lack of sufficient service in their dwelling, and lack of infrastructure to allow a big chunk of the population to charge those vehicles at the same time, over night, when not being used. Most of the new 'generation' coming on line is solar and wind. While wind will work at night when vehicles need to be charged, if the wind is blowing, solar will not produce at night. So the reality is, a bulk of the new generation capability will not work for charging vehicles at home and never will. I don't mind EVs, what I hate is the tyranical laws passed by govt forcing it down everybody's throat with no plans or money to upgrade infrastructure to make it plausibly possible. The only plausible explanation for this is there is an agenda to eliminate personal transportation for the masses because nobody is stupid enough to think this will work without major money and major time. MA and CA have 12 years to do massive infrastructure upgrades and they aren't even thinking about it. Washington is a “hold my beer” state to see who can out do California or Oregon. We have plenty of production to the point wind farms are paid to not produce thanks to the fact our transmission grid can’t handle what we can produce. Wind farms can’t run durning the best times of spring and fall due to dams having to spill water for flood control and salmon runs. We have coal and natural gas plants on the west side who were slated to close until they realized they have to push the dates out, like they will have to do with the new IC ban of 2035. Right now in rural areas there are Tesla stations powered by diesel generators, the local utility companies have no plans to extend or upgrade their lines due to cost, and ROI will never pay off and if they charged what it would cost no one would use them. This nation will never be 100% EV, well not for generations due to remoteness. Something else others are forgetting, work at home, how’s that going to effect EV usage and costs? |
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Quoted: It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. |
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That's a giant 'no shit'. My manager moved from this area to southwest VA, about a 5 hour drive, then got rid of his little 35+ mpg car for two EVs (a volt which has like a 200 mile range) and a top end F150 ev which has a 300 mile range. Either way he's stopping in Charlottesville and sitting on his hands while one of his vehicles charges, for HOURS to finish his trip. Asinine. Moronic. People, keep one gas or diesel vehicle until (hah) they get the charging infrastructure right or make batteries that are long distance (yes, I know they do, but not 500 miles). |
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Quoted: How much .gov infrastructure does the gas station on the corner require? Quoted: Quoted: So you are cool with the required infrastructure upgrades to make this feasible? Cool, we will spread the cost out over several years so your bill won't go up that much, and run a new 69kv line through your backyard to handle the new incident demand peaks. How much .gov infrastructure does the gas station on the corner require? How big of an electrical line will it take to carry enough current to charge 10-20 vehicles at a time at full speed? Now install that for every gas station linking it to a power plant. I think people are underestimating how big these power lines and substations will need to be. |
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Quoted: CA has approved strip mining their state? Lol, they are the HQ of environmental Nazism. I don't see them sacrificing their state to provide lithium for battery powered cars. It's easier to get it from China, for now. And that doesn't address any of the other problems with battery powered cars. The batteries themselves create a dangerous, toxic mess when they have to be disposed of. Replacements are huge money. And when they spontaneously catch on fire, even without wreck damage, what then? So everyone charges at home. Imagine running a clothes dryer 14 hours a day, every day of the year. That's going to add nothing to an electric bill? You've obviously never used an electric clothes dryer before. Maybe in fantasy world, your power usage won't increase. In the real world, it's going to drastically increase the bill. And you still have to buy the battery powered car, and they are still extremely expensive. You going to kick in some of your own money to pay so everyone gets one? CA is barely hanging on with their grid as it is. Adding 30 million plug in cars is laughably short-sighted. CA would need to vastly beef up its power generation. And I don't mean toss up a few solar panels. The entire plan is half-baked by people suffering from pie in the sky disease. And that's presuming there's no sinister element to this weird, insane push to force everyone to convert to battery power for their vehicles. They tech isn't there yet for battery powered cars to completely replace gas vehicles. Saying that it is sounds wonderful, but it's not reality no matter how aggressively it's argued. There's still a generation or three to go before the tech catches up with the real world. No, lithium can be mined as a brine solution. The state already approves geothermal as they consider it green, they will just extract the lithium from the brine at geothermal locations. They can do it already, they just cant do it large scale yet. If they can, they already have the approval to do it. |
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Quoted: That's a giant 'no shit'. My manager moved from this area to southwest VA, about a 5 hour drive, then got rid of his little 35+ mpg car for two EVs (a volt which has like a 200 mile range) and a top end F150 ev which has a 300 mile range. Either way he's stopping in Charlottesville and sitting on his hands while one of his vehicles charges, for HOURS to finish his trip. Asinine. Moronic. People, keep one gas or diesel vehicle until (hah) they get the charging infrastructure right or make batteries that are long distance (yes, I know they do, but not 500 miles). |
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Quoted: Three mile island started the death of nuclear power in the USA, Chernobyl and Japan just keep them still born. Three mile isle was the last straw. Building a bunch of Nuke plants in the NW to compete with super cheap hydro was massive waste of funds and made nuke look 'expensive' and soured the idea of it being cost effective. |
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Quoted: We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. It's going to change, one way or another. The grid is severely out of date and due for an overhaul. I've said in this thread numerous times that it's situation dependent. If you have an EV in the fleet in a multi vehicle home, what's the big deal? How often does the average person go through a full tank of fuel during their daily commute to work and the grocery store? Similar problem. If you don't get a full charge overnight, it's about the same as leaving with a half tank of gas for the day....and that's an if. There's always trickle charge options, or you know, we just update the grid to accommodate the new load requirements. |
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Quoted: That's a giant 'no shit'. My manager moved from this area to southwest VA, about a 5 hour drive, then got rid of his little 35+ mpg car for two EVs (a volt which has like a 200 mile range) and a top end F150 ev which has a 300 mile range. Either way he's stopping in Charlottesville and sitting on his hands while one of his vehicles charges, for HOURS to finish his trip. Asinine. Moronic. People, keep one gas or diesel vehicle until (hah) they get the charging infrastructure right or make batteries that are long distance (yes, I know they do, but not 500 miles). EVs have plenty of issues but let's keep this based in fact. The vehicle mentioned has a 320 mile range. The vehicle will charge from 20% to 80% charged in 41 minutes. One stop would make this trip easily done. Still slower than a gasoline vehicle but not hours slower, more like an hour slower. |
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Quoted: We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. Time of use rates are being pushed by FERC, they will be coming to all of America in due time. They wrap it up in "demand response" which sounds nice and techy, but it is just control the end user usage though rates to get load flattening. If they make one area (time of day) to desirable and it peaks, it will change to be more expensive. You can opt out, but the rates are designed that if you opt out, you will pay even more. Cause the goal is to get you to comply though $$$. |
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Quoted: See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? If off peak pricing ends it would be more expensive to charge but still less expensive than gasoline. For my use the shutdown windows don't affect my leave times. It's not that I don't agree with you that there are issues with EV charging. There certainly are. However, the NW politics has chosen winners and losers. Through "carbon taxes" gas and diesel costs will be driven up by the state of OR & WA period. Its literally the stated goal. what happens when gasoline is $8-10 a gallon? I look at vehicles in 5-10 year windows. If in 10 years the market favors gas then great, but I just don't see it happening. At some point I'd like to not live under the regime of Oregon government but with the federal government pushing the same direction there may not be a big difference. |
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Quoted: Three mile isle was the last straw. Building a bunch of Nuke plants in the NW to compete with super cheap hydro was massive waste of funds and made nuke look 'expensive' and soured the idea of it being cost effective. Quoted: Quoted: Three mile island started the death of nuclear power in the USA, Chernobyl and Japan just keep them still born. Three mile isle was the last straw. Building a bunch of Nuke plants in the NW to compete with super cheap hydro was massive waste of funds and made nuke look 'expensive' and soured the idea of it being cost effective. Allot of it was WPPS mismanagement pure and simple, Satsup was stupid to begin with, Hanford was needed as the old breeders were being shut down the need was still there as was the nuclear infrastructure needed. WPPS was nothing more then a money transfer and not unlike Enron in creating a fictitious need on the west side of Washington. The transmission lines and other nuclear infrastructure was and is still in place at Hanford. We will see new technology nuclear plants at Hanford, just like they are staring now at Idaho Falls, you have the infrastructure, you have knowledge and public support already in place, on the west side not at all. Out of sight, out of mind. |
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Quoted: It's going to change, one way or another. The grid is severely out of date and due for an overhaul. I've said in this thread numerous times that it's situation dependent. If you have an EV in the fleet in a multi vehicle home, what's the big deal? How often does the average person go through a full tank of fuel during their daily commute to work and the grocery store? Similar problem. If you don't get a full charge overnight, it's about the same as leaving with a half tank of gas for the day....and that's an if. There's always trickle charge options, or you know, we just update the grid to accommodate the new load requirements. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Like I’ve been saying a good friend of mine works for BPA and was talking about that and he said quite frankly allot of EV users will be pissed off, it those same EV users are increasing demand that has seen steady increases for the last few years. Off Peak. He was the one telling me that many utility companies are going to have one fixed rate since energy prices keep going up and off peak really is a thing of the past. Like I said earlier families are home and doing everything at night that was traditionally done earlier in the day. With both parents working, kids in school and doing other activities the electrical load demand has seen increases from 6:00 pm and not really ever dropping off. The war on gas stoves and natural gas in general is only going to drive up demand for electricity, which we presently are decreasing amounts through the war on coal and natural gas. My BPA friend has talked about programs allowing them (grid operators) to regulate and shut down EV’s and other smart energy users. He was saying that most of todays heat pumps are undersized due to cost cutting, and that those undersized units will have thermostats set to lower or higher temperatures depending on the season forcing them to run harder and longer. New spec house construction is built to code minimums and custom are as well to lower costs will use the bare minimum of required insulation. I’m getting side tracked here but he said many operators are looking forward to the ability to shut down excess unneeded power usage. Right now their only tool is rolling black and brown outs. The EV crowd do not grasp the situation at hand and are only making it worse. It’s going to come down to heat or cool your house, do some laundry or charge your car. But hey what do I know I only have friends in the generation and grid community telling me how it really is, not the unicorn feathers were told by the government and the press. Here is what the local utility is doing. When you receive a rebate on your EV charger, you’re automatically enrolled in the PGE EV Smart Charging Program. It’s easy to earn rewards while doing good for the environment and helping us build a more efficient and resilient grid. So, how does it work? Your charger will automatically shift its charging schedule away from peak times when energy use is high and renewable resources are more scarce. We call these Smart Charging Events. During these events, your charger will pause your vehicle charging. It will start again once the event is over. You can opt out of any event via your charging app. When you participate, you can earn a $25 credit on your bill at the end of a Smart Charging season (October to March and April to September). You’ll be randomly assigned to one of two groups, which have different Smart Charging Event hours. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/pge_JPG-2736012.JPG https://images.ctfassets.net/416ywc1laqmd/2D1cSE5rAaeRZ2tD7s5Oqk/aac31525b0a503942b6b86ea1c56b591/TOD_Calendar_Graphic_1600x586.png See it’s starting, what happens when more and more utility companies simply drop peak and off peak? What happens when demand is high your shut down and you need your car in the morning and it’s 20%? It says right on there that you can opt out of a pause. They are simply incentivizing using lower load times by making it cheaper, and the charger can do that automatically if you want it to. We get it, your pro EV, you fail to see any negatives even when presented in your face. So everything is working fine then there is a large unforeseen demand your cut off and you don’t find out until you go to leave, little late for the opt out. What about when off peak is eliminated? What about when your simply cut off because of other demands. EV is a not ready for prime time novelty right now, and it’s decades if not more away from being any serious threat against IC. The costs are going to go up and there is no way around it, failure to see this is going around with rose colored glasses. It's going to change, one way or another. The grid is severely out of date and due for an overhaul. I've said in this thread numerous times that it's situation dependent. If you have an EV in the fleet in a multi vehicle home, what's the big deal? How often does the average person go through a full tank of fuel during their daily commute to work and the grocery store? Similar problem. If you don't get a full charge overnight, it's about the same as leaving with a half tank of gas for the day....and that's an if. There's always trickle charge options, or you know, we just update the grid to accommodate the new load requirements. The grid has needed to be expanded and upgraded since the 70’s and it’s been know by all involved since then. Getting permits is all but impossible, it took a almost 10 years for permitting of a additional transmission line that was barely 15 miles to help ease the burden of a remote area here. Power lines in the middle of nowhere, out of sight, nothing elaborate or even large. That was finished what 5 years ago? It’s path was changed numerous times, it’s size was reduced multiple EIS, lawsuits, you think a new major upgrade or replacement will happen nation wide? Sure it can happen but it will take a act of Congress, 100’s of billions of dollars and decades of lawsuits. The USA has red taped itself to death and it’s not getting better. |