[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 10 of 12)
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Quoted: Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. Quoted: Quoted: But how many of those passenger vehicles owners live in apartments.? I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . But again the bottom line in this EV nonsense is OUR CURRENT ELECTRICAL SUPPLY CAN NOT SUPPORT MORE ELECTRICAL DEMAND WITHOUT BUILDING 1: NEW ELECTRICAL GENERATION PLANTS AND 2: AN IMPROVED ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM. Fix this first then let the FREE MARKET decide who wants EVs. Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. |
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Quoted: In certain markets and climates. What you should be asking is at what saturation point does the proliferation of EVs start to overwhelm the distribution grids capacity? It's well below 30% adoption. And you're more likely to see concentrated adoption in more affluent areas because of the cost of EVs and associated accessories needed such as the charger. There is zero intelligence in the grid at the distribution level past the substation it was and is too expensive outside of smart meters which are not really real time devices. That's why they're looking at communicating with the cars. Point being the grid is not ready it will take years and the industry is already slammed with year + long lead times. We simply can't produce enough transformers right now among other things. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . That's still a huge chunk. I wouldn't be surprised if the market share of people that can viably use an EV instead of ICE is probably over 30% with the current limitations. That gap will only shrink over time. In multi vehicle homes I bet at least half would be well served by an EV as one of the vehicles. In certain markets and climates. What you should be asking is at what saturation point does the proliferation of EVs start to overwhelm the distribution grids capacity? It's well below 30% adoption. And you're more likely to see concentrated adoption in more affluent areas because of the cost of EVs and associated accessories needed such as the charger. There is zero intelligence in the grid at the distribution level past the substation it was and is too expensive outside of smart meters which are not really real time devices. That's why they're looking at communicating with the cars. Point being the grid is not ready it will take years and the industry is already slammed with year + long lead times. We simply can't produce enough transformers right now among other things. I think it will be a decade or two before the grid is close to handling a 20% demand and I’m being generous, in all honesty I would say less then 10%. Look at the issues now with the power grid, we already have charging restrictions, we have rolling blackouts to conserve and this is before the EV demand. The USA is expanding, look at all the new sub divisions, we as a nation are making more demands on the grid now without EV’s. Kids are towing up and going out into the world, the grid demand is going up without EV use, once the strain really starts showing it’s ugly head your going to see EV’s suddenly don’t make sense and will end up costing more, right now they are being made to appear great and cheaper, that mask can’t stay on much longer. |
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Quoted: Tons of For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. fixed for you. We are having discussions right now on this. If you certify nameplate ratings like a coal plant, nuke, gas turbine or recip, you don't get to say "oh its too cold or hot for my gear box on my wind turbine so I can't show up" or "there is snow on my panels I can't show up". Not to mention the loss of inertia. Battery storage and other green technologies have a bad habit of dropping out during grid events, causing even larger oscillations and problems that increased green penetration will exacerbate. But then again, when politicians are picking winners and losers with your tax dollars, all while lining their pockets, don't expect any common sense in the process. |
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Quoted: Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. Quoted: Quoted: But how many of those passenger vehicles owners live in apartments.? I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . But again the bottom line in this EV nonsense is OUR CURRENT ELECTRICAL SUPPLY CAN NOT SUPPORT MORE ELECTRICAL DEMAND WITHOUT BUILDING 1: NEW ELECTRICAL GENERATION PLANTS AND 2: AN IMPROVED ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM. Fix this first then let the FREE MARKET decide who wants EVs. Tons of new generation is coming online, it’s just not coal. It’s not really a concern of will we have enough, the cost of it might be to you though…. For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. BPA has been trying to upgrade the distribution system for years, every time they get close or a permit lawsuits stop the upgrades and or replacements. There is not allot of new generation coming online, and we have shut down way more then we have brought online. Many were shut down for no other reason then to promote green production and we’re now seeing that’s not ever going to happen, yet the insanity continues by attempting to try it differently and expecting a different outcome. Wind farms are a classic example, they are not working on land, let’s move them off shore. They are costing allot more then originally factored, components not lasting as long as advertised. Right now the USA can produce more electricity then we can move, so please explain how these 10 new plants will change anything, especially in light we closed 50, and even with more closed then are coming online (they are not producing yet, so they don’t even count) we can not distribute what we can generate now. |
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Quoted: fixed for you. We are having discussions right now on this. If you certify nameplate ratings like a coal plant, nuke, gas turbine or recip, you don't get to say "oh its too cold or hot for my gear box on my wind turbine so I can't show up" or "there is snow on my panels I can't show up". Not to mention the loss of inertia. Battery storage and other green technologies have a bad habit of dropping out during grid events, causing even larger oscillations and problems that increased green penetration will exacerbate. But then again, when politicians are picking winners and losers with your tax dollars, all while lining their pockets, don't expect any common sense in the process. Quoted: Quoted: Tons of For the distribution side the answer is no. No one is going to replace distribution country wide for load that might come. If load starts rising we replace lines, you don’t preemptively do it. fixed for you. We are having discussions right now on this. If you certify nameplate ratings like a coal plant, nuke, gas turbine or recip, you don't get to say "oh its too cold or hot for my gear box on my wind turbine so I can't show up" or "there is snow on my panels I can't show up". Not to mention the loss of inertia. Battery storage and other green technologies have a bad habit of dropping out during grid events, causing even larger oscillations and problems that increased green penetration will exacerbate. But then again, when politicians are picking winners and losers with your tax dollars, all while lining their pockets, don't expect any common sense in the process. 
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Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. It will be a while until the EV market fits one size fits all like the ICE. For certain applications the ev can work quite well like you pointed out. I'll hold off for the beta testers to work the bugs out first. |
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Quoted: Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. Quoted: Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. They have not submitted the cola permits and don’t expect to until 2024 with a “planned” approval in 2026 so they don’t have full NRC approval. I think it’s great, but let’s be honest until all permits are in hand nothing is a guarantee. |
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Quoted: Okay, apply this to guns. Why do they want to ban guns? Apply this to money. Why do they want to go digital/ cashless? You and I agree. Where we digress is transportation. You can still easily store or make gas or diesel or substitutes. Electricity, especially with the layer of automation is entirely different. Even if you wanted to change your EV with your bootleg PV or genset, the brain wouldn't accept it, and would report you for trying. Same thing applies in your home, all your smart appliances and meters. At some point, they have you. It is over. And we are careening down that path. Some go willing, others (like me) thinks it sucks. Nothing we can do but discuss our demise anyways. Agree. It's why I've said many times here: get some of your assets offshore and some of your investments offshore and denominated in something other than U.S. dollars. It may still be a loss, but I don't believe all countries will fall at the rate we will. You need to have options when the SHTF. |
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Quoted: Read and comprehend the sentence directly after the word you highlighted in red.   Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have three vehicles between the wife and I. At least two could easily be EV with the usage/range they get yearly. All three could be EV as well as long as you properly account for charging at home savings vs delays of charging on the road for longer road trips. For where I would want to road trip and EV (~670 miles one way) the tech is basically there with the Lucid's. It's only 1-2 generations before that trickles down a bit into more of a middle/premium pricepoint. Plus the battery tech gets better too by then. I still think a plug-in hybrid with a small diesel would be the perfect vehicle for most people but the EPA fucked us there. I've thought about getting a 2019 Volt Premier for shits and giggles to try for awhile. They killed it right when it got *really* good with a little more range and faster charging. GM's gonna GM though lol. Yeah, but...have you looked at how much the Lucid costs? Go be poor somewhere else, lol! Yes, and Lucid has to sell enough to be able to sink some profit into developing a lower-tier, less expensive version, as Tesla did. The big difference is that almost everyone has heard of Tesla, Tesla got the big .gov subsidies (granted, I am unaware if the other EV companies also benefited), whereas Lucid is not as much of a household name, and is still around $50K more than a Tesla. Also, on a side note, have we discussed the repairability of the cars? For example: https://provscons.com/teslas-body-damage-repair-cost-and-time-is-insane-it-needs-to-be-fixed-reference/ Not to mention all the shadetree mechanics that currently save thousands of dollars a year by working on their own vehicles. Is that even possible with an EV? At all? |
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I have an EV as a dedicated commuter and it's great for that purpose. I get over a hundred MPG equivalent. It saves me a ton of $$$. The "power infrastructure" to charge it is the same level of complication as a 240v dryer outlet. I am not a poor so it just plugs in at the house overnight nearly all of the time. The load on the grid is not a huge factor for at home overnight level 2 charging. Most EVs including mine change at night which is off peak in most markets. The electricity market in many states already has methods to further incentive this like price breaks for off peak electric usage. That said EVs are a terrible idea for anyone that doesn't have access to a driveway and at least a regular 120v/20 amp circuit (with that 240v dryer plug being much better). Dude in the link in the OP is not very good at transportation planning. Then again it may be a genius move to send your kid to college with such a range limited vehicle. 
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Quoted: I have an EV as a dedicated commuter and it's great for that purpose. I get over a hundred MPG equivalent. It saves me a ton of $$$. The "power infrastructure" to charge it is the same level of complication as a 240v dryer outlet. I am not a poor so it just plugs in at the house overnight nearly all of the time. The load on the grid is not a huge factor for at home overnight level 2 charging. Most EVs including mine change at night which is off peak in most markets. The electricity market in many states already has methods to further incentive this like price breaks for off peak electric usage. That said EVs are a terrible idea for anyone that doesn't have access to a driveway and at least a regular 120v/20 amp circuit (with that 240v dryer plug being much better). Dude in the link in the OP is not very good at transportation planning. Then again it may be a genius move to send your kid to college with such a range limited vehicle. OK, great. Price breaks. Who is actually paying for that price break? You know someone is. |
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Quoted: fixed for you. We are having discussions right now on this. If you certify nameplate ratings like a coal plant, nuke, gas turbine or recip, you don't get to say "oh its too cold or hot for my gear box on my wind turbine so I can't show up" or "there is snow on my panels I can't show up". Not to mention the loss of inertia. Battery storage and other green technologies have a bad habit of dropping out during grid events, causing even larger oscillations and problems that increased green penetration will exacerbate. But then again, when politicians are picking winners and losers with your tax dollars, all while lining their pockets, don't expect any common sense in the process. The dropping out in grid events you are talking about is momentary cessation. Which was from installers setting their controllers to do something they shouldn’t, several where able to go back and turn it off, nothing new coming online has it, and if they do that’s a failure of whoever approved the lgia. Even then, one could ask how they are meeting PRC-024 because they aren’t. Nuke plants are being extended, Diablo just got approved (technically a temp permit till the new permit comes, typical gov right there) off shore wind has base load gen characteristics, batteries, NG to hydrogen conversions. You can sit there and scream at the top of your lungs that you don’t like mandates, I’ll 100% agree with you. But no one in power is listening. So you can recognize that and keep screaming at the wall in hopes of your same argument suddenly working, or figure out with what’s now available what will best work for you. |
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Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. That is a good question. As far as fossil fuel plants, I am pretty sure that virtually no NEW coal fired plants are coming on line. There are lots of gas turbine "peaker" plants that have been created, but those are not designed for steady operation, and it take bucketloads of them to match one major steam boiler plant. The wind plants that are being built could be an interesting study in life cycle costs. Their average lifespan is about 10 years, and the cost to rejuvenate them is close to the same as building a new one. This will make their construction/operation a one-time event, with dismantling and recycling a significant challenge in years to come. |
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Quoted: BPA has been trying to upgrade the distribution system for years, every time they get close or a permit lawsuits stop the upgrades and or replacements. There is not allot of new generation coming online, and we have shut down way more then we have brought online. Many were shut down for no other reason then to promote green production and we’re now seeing that’s not ever going to happen, yet the insanity continues by attempting to try it differently and expecting a different outcome. Wind farms are a classic example, they are not working on land, let’s move them off shore. They are costing allot more then originally factored, components not lasting as long as advertised. Right now the USA can produce more electricity then we can move, so please explain how these 10 new plants will change anything, especially in light we closed 50, and even with more closed then are coming online (they are not producing yet, so they don’t even count) we can not distribute what we can generate now. On shore wind is a joke, I really prefer not to do it if I can. A few are fine but they rarely pen out money wise. Off shore actually can be ok, you get much more steady wind making it much more useable. Off shore the turbine are also much larger making them decent producers. The issue is always getting the power in. It can be sorta expensive to holy shit. And then on the west coast at least, if you do get it enough to make it work, the amount of power you will be moving will be enough to need a path rating study to make sure you aren’t fucking up COI or the PDCI. $$$$$. But a lot of the cost here aren’t really a wind problem. It’s going to be environmental nightmare issues getting the power on land and then massive issues with where to dump a shit ton of power and not impact someone else’s transmission rights. |
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Quoted: To be fair, most, if not all, EV owners could get by with a well-insulated attached garage. I have a one-car insulated garage in my on-post house on Drum, and it stays in the low 40's throughout the winter when the outside temp is in the teens or single digits. That's if they own a house with a garage. Condo/Apartment dwellers, or houses without garages, may be well and truly fucked. Is there not a way to put a battery blanket or something similar around the batteries in the EVs to help insulate them in colder temps? My Model 3 sits outside and charges year round….even in below freezing temps. Never had an issue… |
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Quoted: Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. Quoted: Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. Thats one and I'm aware of 3 modulars that are on the books but coming online any time soon? |
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Quoted: The dropping out in grid events you are talking about is momentary cessation. Which was from installers setting their controllers to do something they shouldn’t, several where able to go back and turn it off, nothing new coming online has it, and if they do that’s a failure of whoever approved the lgia. Even then, one could ask how they are meeting PRC-024 because they aren’t. Nuke plants are being extended, Diablo just got approved (technically a temp permit till the new permit comes, typical gov right there) off shore wind has base load gen characteristics, batteries, NG to hydrogen conversions. You can sit there and scream at the top of your lungs that you don’t like mandates, I’ll 100% agree with you. But no one in power is listening. So you can recognize that and keep screaming at the wall in hopes of your same argument suddenly working, or figure out with what’s now available what will best work for you. Quoted: Quoted: fixed for you. We are having discussions right now on this. If you certify nameplate ratings like a coal plant, nuke, gas turbine or recip, you don't get to say "oh its too cold or hot for my gear box on my wind turbine so I can't show up" or "there is snow on my panels I can't show up". Not to mention the loss of inertia. Battery storage and other green technologies have a bad habit of dropping out during grid events, causing even larger oscillations and problems that increased green penetration will exacerbate. But then again, when politicians are picking winners and losers with your tax dollars, all while lining their pockets, don't expect any common sense in the process. The dropping out in grid events you are talking about is momentary cessation. Which was from installers setting their controllers to do something they shouldn’t, several where able to go back and turn it off, nothing new coming online has it, and if they do that’s a failure of whoever approved the lgia. Even then, one could ask how they are meeting PRC-024 because they aren’t. Nuke plants are being extended, Diablo just got approved (technically a temp permit till the new permit comes, typical gov right there) off shore wind has base load gen characteristics, batteries, NG to hydrogen conversions. You can sit there and scream at the top of your lungs that you don’t like mandates, I’ll 100% agree with you. But no one in power is listening. So you can recognize that and keep screaming at the wall in hopes of your same argument suddenly working, or figure out with what’s now available what will best work for you. Offshore has base load characteristics  good grief have you seen the reliability of on shore ? They fail at an a alarmingly high rate and somehow those machines will be more reliable off shore?You're right no one in power is listening because the csuite making these decisions isn't listening to the people that know the technology. They're listening to an echo chamber that is screaming zero carbon and those people will not have to live with thier poor decisions. |
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For that type of driving he should have bought a PHEV, Makes alot more sense than an EV now & for the foreseeable future. IMO Full EV's only seem to make sense when you can charge them while you sleep or parked at work. As far a having Generating/Transmission/Distribution capability to meet the demand of EV"s? The US will screw it up (Probably on purpose). |
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Quoted: That is a good question. As far as fossil fuel plants, I am pretty sure that virtually no NEW coal fired plants are coming on line. There are lots of gas turbine "peaker" plants that have been created, but those are not designed for steady operation, and it take bucketloads of them to match one major steam boiler plant. The wind plants that are being built could be an interesting study in life cycle costs. Their average lifespan is about 10 years, and the cost to rejuvenate them is close to the same as building a new one. This will make their construction/operation a one-time event, with dismantling and recycling a significant challenge in years to come. Quoted: Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. That is a good question. As far as fossil fuel plants, I am pretty sure that virtually no NEW coal fired plants are coming on line. There are lots of gas turbine "peaker" plants that have been created, but those are not designed for steady operation, and it take bucketloads of them to match one major steam boiler plant. The wind plants that are being built could be an interesting study in life cycle costs. Their average lifespan is about 10 years, and the cost to rejuvenate them is close to the same as building a new one. This will make their construction/operation a one-time event, with dismantling and recycling a significant challenge in years to come. Was planned at 10 years. They're failing much earlier and warranty costs are through the roof. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/wind-turbines-taller-than-the-statue-of-liberty-are-falling-over |
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Quoted: This is the typical argument used by EV proponents. It makes sense for commuting. Well it does until it doesn’t. Sooner then later subsidizes are going to end. Soon road use taxes will be required, as more and more buy into the lie, power will become a issue so charging won’t be cheap or always affordable. Can you explain how a EV makes more sense then a IC for a short commute to work, sure right now the government is making it make sense, but what if the tables were even? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like liquid fuel... available everywhere... that takes 5 minutes or less to "charge" my vehicle. EV is a solution in search of a problem. EV is a solution to a few problems, and it does very well within it's niche. For now there's a few applications where they make little to no sense, and a few where they make perfect sense. Which is okay, because that's the cool thing about tech, it can be catered to individual needs. For now most applications make little to no sense. Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. This is the typical argument used by EV proponents. It makes sense for commuting. Well it does until it doesn’t. Sooner then later subsidizes are going to end. Soon road use taxes will be required, as more and more buy into the lie, power will become a issue so charging won’t be cheap or always affordable. Can you explain how a EV makes more sense then a IC for a short commute to work, sure right now the government is making it make sense, but what if the tables were even? The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. |
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Quoted: How many of the multi vehicle homes can afford or benefit from upgraded power supply to run rapid chargers? How many of those homes are or soon will be subject to rolling black or brown outs? How many will be told you can’t charge between the hours of so and so? How long before power rates go higher? What happens when the road taxes kick in? Disposal fees for batteries? Changes are coming that the government can’t hide because they are creating the new problems. Take away all subsidies and let’s see exactly what the free market decides. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . That's still a huge chunk. I wouldn't be surprised if the market share of people that can viably use an EV instead of ICE is probably over 30% with the current limitations. That gap will only shrink over time. In multi vehicle homes I bet at least half would be well served by an EV as one of the vehicles. How many of the multi vehicle homes can afford or benefit from upgraded power supply to run rapid chargers? How many of those homes are or soon will be subject to rolling black or brown outs? How many will be told you can’t charge between the hours of so and so? How long before power rates go higher? What happens when the road taxes kick in? Disposal fees for batteries? Changes are coming that the government can’t hide because they are creating the new problems. Take away all subsidies and let’s see exactly what the free market decides. Why would they need rapid chargers? You can use a standard 240v outlet. |
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Does anyone know where all of the lithium is going to come from for all of the battery packs that will be needed for all those battery powered cars? Most of the proven lithium supplies come from mines in China. And they are not exactly friends right now. It's only going to get worse from here. Let's say CA decides to go to mandatory battery powered cars. No gas, no diesel, nothing but tarted up golf carts for the masses. You get a battery powered car or you don't get around. That's being talked about there, isn't it? CA has just under 40 million people in the '20 census. So, 30 million people will need cars and all they can get is battery powered cars. That's 30 million battery packs, and we're not talking about a pair of AAs. The packs for each car are big, and heavy. And very expensive. Sounds like a lot of lithium will be needed for that many batteries. Adding 30 million chargers onto a grid that's marginal already is going to work out... how? Seems that 30 million extra 240 VAC lines won't be a small draw. It's going to be a big one. Will that effect the monthly electricity bill? I presume all of that extra juice isn't going to be "free." Whatever people save at the pump will simply be added to their electric bill. And that's not going to be cheap. Someone has to pay for all of that juice. And the hypothetical covers just one state, CA. Now imagine the multiplication over the 49 other states, and the rest of the world. Future tech may solve the battery problem, but it has not solved it yet. For now, lithium is how batteries like that are made. And there's only so much of it available. How are we getting around that little problem? And, as I asked before, these batteries can spontaneously combust. When they do, the fire cannot be extinguished by conventional means. And it can burn for days. What if that happens in a parking garage? While you're in bumper to bumper traffic? Lots of problems and the solutions are sketchy, at best. At least for now, with the level of tech that's out there. |
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Quoted: I have an EV as a dedicated commuter and it's great for that purpose. I get over a hundred MPG equivalent. It saves me a ton of $$$. The "power infrastructure" to charge it is the same level of complication as a 240v dryer outlet. I am not a poor so it just plugs in at the house overnight nearly all of the time. The load on the grid is not a huge factor for at home overnight level 2 charging. Most EVs including mine change at night which is off peak in most markets. The electricity market in many states already has methods to further incentive this like price breaks for off peak electric usage. That said EVs are a terrible idea for anyone that doesn't have access to a driveway and at least a regular 120v/20 amp circuit (with that 240v dryer plug being much better). Dude in the link in the OP is not very good at transportation planning. Then again it may be a genius move to send your kid to college with such a range limited vehicle. You so know California has EV charging requirements and they are getting worse, how long before other states follow suit? States that have rolling black/brown outs require all excess use stop, EV’s fall under excess use, you mention a 240 dryer plug, well that’s all fine and dandy until you need to run your heat pump, dryer, hot water heater if it’s electric and EV in the evening when your home. The low peak is disappearing due to families with kids being at home having to do laundry, cook dinner, and taking care of other family matters after work and kids activities. Like I said the grid is maxed out and is only getting worse as more and more demand is being placed on it. |
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Quoted: On shore wind is a joke, I really prefer not to do it if I can. A few are fine but they rarely pen out money wise. Off shore actually can be ok, you get much more steady wind making it much more useable. Off shore the turbine are also much larger making them decent producers. The issue is always getting the power in. It can be sorta expensive to holy shit. And then on the west coast at least, if you do get it enough to make it work, the amount of power you will be moving will be enough to need a path rating study to make sure you aren’t fucking up COI or the PDCI. $$$$$. But a lot of the cost here aren’t really a wind problem. It’s going to be environmental nightmare issues getting the power on land and then massive issues with where to dump a shit ton of power and not impact someone else’s transmission rights. Quoted: Quoted: BPA has been trying to upgrade the distribution system for years, every time they get close or a permit lawsuits stop the upgrades and or replacements. There is not allot of new generation coming online, and we have shut down way more then we have brought online. Many were shut down for no other reason then to promote green production and we’re now seeing that’s not ever going to happen, yet the insanity continues by attempting to try it differently and expecting a different outcome. Wind farms are a classic example, they are not working on land, let’s move them off shore. They are costing allot more then originally factored, components not lasting as long as advertised. Right now the USA can produce more electricity then we can move, so please explain how these 10 new plants will change anything, especially in light we closed 50, and even with more closed then are coming online (they are not producing yet, so they don’t even count) we can not distribute what we can generate now. On shore wind is a joke, I really prefer not to do it if I can. A few are fine but they rarely pen out money wise. Off shore actually can be ok, you get much more steady wind making it much more useable. Off shore the turbine are also much larger making them decent producers. The issue is always getting the power in. It can be sorta expensive to holy shit. And then on the west coast at least, if you do get it enough to make it work, the amount of power you will be moving will be enough to need a path rating study to make sure you aren’t fucking up COI or the PDCI. $$$$$. But a lot of the cost here aren’t really a wind problem. It’s going to be environmental nightmare issues getting the power on land and then massive issues with where to dump a shit ton of power and not impact someone else’s transmission rights. Off shore is creating other problems with marine life such as whales. The harmonic vibrations are creating problems with whales sonar and their abilty to communicate. How long before this ends up getting shut down, more has been cancelled for less because of aquatic life. |
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Quoted: Why would they need rapid chargers? You can use a standard 240v outlet. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. I would wager 20% and they are not able to charge at home. . That's still a huge chunk. I wouldn't be surprised if the market share of people that can viably use an EV instead of ICE is probably over 30% with the current limitations. That gap will only shrink over time. In multi vehicle homes I bet at least half would be well served by an EV as one of the vehicles. How many of the multi vehicle homes can afford or benefit from upgraded power supply to run rapid chargers? How many of those homes are or soon will be subject to rolling black or brown outs? How many will be told you can’t charge between the hours of so and so? How long before power rates go higher? What happens when the road taxes kick in? Disposal fees for batteries? Changes are coming that the government can’t hide because they are creating the new problems. Take away all subsidies and let’s see exactly what the free market decides. Why would they need rapid chargers? You can use a standard 240v outlet. So what’s going to give? Do you not read about the rolling black/brown outs? How do you charge your car, do laundry, cook meals, cool or heat your hose if your straight electric? Many homes are and the assault on natural gas is just kicking off. Many new homes and developments are not even in areas where natural gas is available unless you put in tanks, have your priced natural gas, or propane? Then price it if it has to be delivered. |
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Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like liquid fuel... available everywhere... that takes 5 minutes or less to "charge" my vehicle. EV is a solution in search of a problem. EV is a solution to a few problems, and it does very well within it's niche. For now there's a few applications where they make little to no sense, and a few where they make perfect sense. Which is okay, because that's the cool thing about tech, it can be catered to individual needs. For now most applications make little to no sense. Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. This is the typical argument used by EV proponents. It makes sense for commuting. Well it does until it doesn’t. Sooner then later subsidizes are going to end. Soon road use taxes will be required, as more and more buy into the lie, power will become a issue so charging won’t be cheap or always affordable. Can you explain how a EV makes more sense then a IC for a short commute to work, sure right now the government is making it make sense, but what if the tables were even? The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? |
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Quoted: Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? That mileage tax is coming. The bureaucrats in power have been playing around with idea for a while now. It's sure to be levied against battery powered cars to keep them from escaping paying their fair share through not having to purchase gasoline. Imagine you're a democrat socialist who hates the idea of so many people able to get around at will. How to lock them down so they can't move around so much? How about a .25/mile tax? If that doesn't do it, a .40 a mile tax will help people find other ways to pass the time that doesn't include living in their cars like they do now. We're going to see some major limits on movement in the next couple of years, I predict. Battery powered cars will be a big help in making that happen. It's a main reason the democrat socialists harbor such a massive hard-on for them. |
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Quoted: They have not submitted the cola permits and don’t expect to until 2024 with a “planned” approval in 2026 so they don’t have full NRC approval. I think it’s great, but let’s be honest until all permits are in hand nothing is a guarantee. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. They have not submitted the cola permits and don’t expect to until 2024 with a “planned” approval in 2026 so they don’t have full NRC approval. I think it’s great, but let’s be honest until all permits are in hand nothing is a guarantee. You probably have more knowledge in this area than I do. I'm going off of this: The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) issued its final rule in the Federal Register to certify NuScale Power’s small modular reactor. The company’s power module becomes the first SMR design certified by the NRC and just the seventh reactor design cleared for use in the United States. The rule takes effects February 21, 2023 and equips the nation with a new clean power source to help drive down emissions across the country. The design is an advanced light-water SMR with each power module capable of generating 50 megawatts of emissions-free electricity. NuScale’s VOYGR™ SMR power plant can house up to 12 factory-built power modules that are about a third of the size of a large-scale reactor. Each power module leverages natural processes, such as convection and gravity, to passively cool the reactor without additional water, power, or even operator action. The NRC accepted NuScale’s SMR design certification application back in March 2018 and issued its final technical review in August 2020. The NRC Commission later voted to certify the design on July 29, 2022—making it the first SMR approved by the NRC for use in the United States. DOE is currently working with Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems (UAMPS) through the Carbon Free Power Project to demonstrate a six-module NuScale VOYGR plant at Idaho National Laboratory. The first module is expected to be operational by 2029 with full plant operation the following year. UAMPS finished subsurface field investigation activities at the proposed INL site and expects to submit a combined license application to the NRC in the first quarter of 2024. NuScale Power has 19 signed and active domestic and international agreements to deploy SMR plants in 12 different countries, including Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic, and Jordan in addition to the Carbon Free Power Project. DOE |
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Quoted: Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? It's already here. The cost to register an EV in Oregon is much higher than a liquid fueled vehicle. Milage based taxes are currently an option. They may be mandatory in the future. With the imminent roll out of tolling It appears that is the direction were heading for revenue generation. |
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Quoted: OK, great. Price breaks. Who is actually paying for that price break? You know someone is. Quoted: Quoted: I have an EV as a dedicated commuter and it's great for that purpose. I get over a hundred MPG equivalent. It saves me a ton of $$$. The "power infrastructure" to charge it is the same level of complication as a 240v dryer outlet. I am not a poor so it just plugs in at the house overnight nearly all of the time. The load on the grid is not a huge factor for at home overnight level 2 charging. Most EVs including mine change at night which is off peak in most markets. The electricity market in many states already has methods to further incentive this like price breaks for off peak electric usage. That said EVs are a terrible idea for anyone that doesn't have access to a driveway and at least a regular 120v/20 amp circuit (with that 240v dryer plug being much better). Dude in the link in the OP is not very good at transportation planning. Then again it may be a genius move to send your kid to college with such a range limited vehicle. OK, great. Price breaks. Who is actually paying for that price break? You know someone is. Who is paying for it? The average person who runs an A/C during the summer daytime hours, or business owners that want to run the plant 9-5 instead of putting on a mid shift and shutting down during the day. The utility grid is sized to handle peak loads like those. Those users are driving the demand for peak use, and if your utilities have been somewhat deregulated, they're paying peak prices. Supply and demand based pricing is a free market solution to ration limited resources. Want to use a resource when it's limited in supply? Pay up. Willing to defer usage to an off peak time when there is surplus? Save money. Do you also freak out that hotel rooms in a destination city are more expensive when there's a big sports ball game or convention in town, and are cheaper off season on a random Tuesday night? Do you also get worried about who is subsidizing happy hour special on beer and appetizers at the local pub? The restaurant has empty seats at 4 PM and wants to get paying customers to fill up the unused capacity. The large majority of EV charging can happen during off peak times, when there is surplus electricity available on the grid, and prices will tend to be lower. This isn't rocket science. But you do you. I've heard gas is really cheap in DEU.
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Quoted: This is a non issue. You don't buy an EV expecting to be able to regularly make long trips with quick refueling times. The niche for EV's is people that commute back and forth daily and can charge at home....which is a huge segment of the population. this. the car system was never designed for long commutes/trips. only running around town and plugged in every night. to think otherwise is insane. |
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Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. 
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Quoted: Who is paying for it? The average person who runs an A/C during the summer daytime hours, or business owners that want to run the plant 9-5 instead of putting on a mid shift and shutting down during the day. The utility grid is sized to handle peak loads like those. Those users are driving the demand for peak use, and if your utilities have been somewhat deregulated, they're paying peak prices. Supply and demand based pricing is a free market solution to ration limited resources. Want to use a resource when it's limited in supply? Pay up. Willing to defer usage to an off peak time when there is surplus? Save money. Do you also freak out that hotel rooms in a destination city are more expensive when there's a big sports ball game or convention in town, and are cheaper off season on a random Tuesday night? Do you also get worried about who is subsidizing happy hour special on beer and appetizers at the local pub? The restaurant has empty seats at 4 PM and wants to get paying customers to fill up the unused capacity. The large majority of EV charging can happen during off peak times, when there is surplus electricity available on the grid, and prices will tend to be lower. This isn't rocket science. But you do you. I've heard gas is really cheap in DEU. Then knock yourself out, kiddo. I'm going to keep my ICE vehicle, thank you very much. Go get a coupe of battery powered cars and we'll hope the democrat socialists don't pull the rug out from under you at some point. Because that's exactly what they're going to do. It's in their nature. Don't take our word for it, though. You will find out yourself. |
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Quoted: Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like liquid fuel... available everywhere... that takes 5 minutes or less to "charge" my vehicle. EV is a solution in search of a problem. EV is a solution to a few problems, and it does very well within it's niche. For now there's a few applications where they make little to no sense, and a few where they make perfect sense. Which is okay, because that's the cool thing about tech, it can be catered to individual needs. For now most applications make little to no sense. Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. This is the typical argument used by EV proponents. It makes sense for commuting. Well it does until it doesn’t. Sooner then later subsidizes are going to end. Soon road use taxes will be required, as more and more buy into the lie, power will become a issue so charging won’t be cheap or always affordable. Can you explain how a EV makes more sense then a IC for a short commute to work, sure right now the government is making it make sense, but what if the tables were even? The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? You are operating on speculation. If you think gas and diesel won't keep rising too I have a bridge to sell you. |
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Quoted: Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. Quoted: Quoted: The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yup. Just checked the odometer. Over the last 8.5k miles on my car I've gotten 3.9 miles per kWh. I'm paying $0.14 per kWh. Gas is $3.34/gallon. For the cost of one gallon of gas I can go 93 miles. I also don't pay for oil changes, brake rotors, belts, etc. There is nearly zero MX cost. I got it used as EVs seem to have high depreciation off the lot. I have saved so much on operating costs in the last few years as a daily driver that it is effectively free at this point. The EV is so cheap it has let me keep an extra car, an older beater SUV. It is usually off the insurance outside of the winter. I just call to put it back on insured status if I need it. So when the oppressive regime turns off our coal fired power plants in Utah and we are all huddling in our un climate controlled homes I'll still be good. How dare you come in here with a very reasonable situation supported by actual experience. |
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Quoted: Then knock yourself out, kiddo. I'm going to keep my ICE vehicle, thank you very much. Go get a coupe of battery powered cars and we'll hope the democrat socialists don't pull the rug out from under you at some point. Because that's exactly what they're going to do. It's in their nature. Don't take our word for it, though. You will find out yourself. Quoted: Quoted: Who is paying for it? The average person who runs an A/C during the summer daytime hours, or business owners that want to run the plant 9-5 instead of putting on a mid shift and shutting down during the day. The utility grid is sized to handle peak loads like those. Those users are driving the demand for peak use, and if your utilities have been somewhat deregulated, they're paying peak prices. Supply and demand based pricing is a free market solution to ration limited resources. Want to use a resource when it's limited in supply? Pay up. Willing to defer usage to an off peak time when there is surplus? Save money. Do you also freak out that hotel rooms in a destination city are more expensive when there's a big sports ball game or convention in town, and are cheaper off season on a random Tuesday night? Do you also get worried about who is subsidizing happy hour special on beer and appetizers at the local pub? The restaurant has empty seats at 4 PM and wants to get paying customers to fill up the unused capacity. The large majority of EV charging can happen during off peak times, when there is surplus electricity available on the grid, and prices will tend to be lower. This isn't rocket science. But you do you. I've heard gas is really cheap in DEU. Then knock yourself out, kiddo. I'm going to keep my ICE vehicle, thank you very much. Go get a coupe of battery powered cars and we'll hope the democrat socialists don't pull the rug out from under you at some point. Because that's exactly what they're going to do. It's in their nature. Don't take our word for it, though. You will find out yourself. Why does everyone seem to think that gasoline is going to be immune from this rug pull? If they're gonna fuck with people, they're gonna fuck with everyone. |
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Quoted: So you're saying that sitting in this commuter traffic for hours in 100+ degrees, going both ways doesn't matter? I love how you guys think that you're going to be able to fully charge your EV every day after work no matter if it's summer or winter. Your naiveness is priceless! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/istockphoto-960093634-1024x1024_jpg-2733899.JPG I'm not sure I fully understand what your point is here, but for the Tesla at least the AC/Heat system is very efficient. I live in hot as hell southern Arizona and own one of the lower range model 3s. The AC uses more energy when its hot obviously, but I can't say its been noticeable. The cars trip computer takes outside temperature and a billion other factors into account when planning trips - so running out of battery isn't much of an issue. Even with the glass roof I am super pleased with my Tesla in 100+ degree heat. It is infinitely better than my Jeep Wrangler was. I used to get out of the Jeep absolutely drenched in sweat and beet red in the face, whereas the Tesla has no issue keeping it a pleasant 75 degrees or cooler inside. |
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Quoted: Who is paying for it? The average person who runs an A/C during the summer daytime hours, or business owners that want to run the plant 9-5 instead of putting on a mid shift and shutting down during the day. The utility grid is sized to handle peak loads like those. Those users are driving the demand for peak use, and if your utilities have been somewhat deregulated, they're paying peak prices. Supply and demand based pricing is a free market solution to ration limited resources. Want to use a resource when it's limited in supply? Pay up. Willing to defer usage to an off peak time when there is surplus? Save money. Do you also freak out that hotel rooms in a destination city are more expensive when there's a big sports ball game or convention in town, and are cheaper off season on a random Tuesday night? Do you also get worried about who is subsidizing happy hour special on beer and appetizers at the local pub? The restaurant has empty seats at 4 PM and wants to get paying customers to fill up the unused capacity. The large majority of EV charging can happen during off peak times, when there is surplus electricity available on the grid, and prices will tend to be lower. This isn't rocket science. But you do you. I've heard gas is really cheap in DEU. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have an EV as a dedicated commuter and it's great for that purpose. I get over a hundred MPG equivalent. It saves me a ton of $$$. The "power infrastructure" to charge it is the same level of complication as a 240v dryer outlet. I am not a poor so it just plugs in at the house overnight nearly all of the time. The load on the grid is not a huge factor for at home overnight level 2 charging. Most EVs including mine change at night which is off peak in most markets. The electricity market in many states already has methods to further incentive this like price breaks for off peak electric usage. That said EVs are a terrible idea for anyone that doesn't have access to a driveway and at least a regular 120v/20 amp circuit (with that 240v dryer plug being much better). Dude in the link in the OP is not very good at transportation planning. Then again it may be a genius move to send your kid to college with such a range limited vehicle. OK, great. Price breaks. Who is actually paying for that price break? You know someone is. Who is paying for it? The average person who runs an A/C during the summer daytime hours, or business owners that want to run the plant 9-5 instead of putting on a mid shift and shutting down during the day. The utility grid is sized to handle peak loads like those. Those users are driving the demand for peak use, and if your utilities have been somewhat deregulated, they're paying peak prices. Supply and demand based pricing is a free market solution to ration limited resources. Want to use a resource when it's limited in supply? Pay up. Willing to defer usage to an off peak time when there is surplus? Save money. Do you also freak out that hotel rooms in a destination city are more expensive when there's a big sports ball game or convention in town, and are cheaper off season on a random Tuesday night? Do you also get worried about who is subsidizing happy hour special on beer and appetizers at the local pub? The restaurant has empty seats at 4 PM and wants to get paying customers to fill up the unused capacity. The large majority of EV charging can happen during off peak times, when there is surplus electricity available on the grid, and prices will tend to be lower. This isn't rocket science. But you do you. I've heard gas is really cheap in DEU. Peak and off peak are slowly going away for one consistent flat rate. High use customers now negotiate their deals with shortfalls passed to the consumer. Your seeing demand pretty much the same day or night it’s just being used personal verse commercial.personal use cost will slowly rise due to contracts being used by big users. Big users get breaks for cost and they pay for the ability to get their higher demand to them which benefits those in that service area. With demand on the rise during evenings those cost savings are going to disappear and in fact cost more. |
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Quoted: You are operating on speculation. If you think gas and diesel won't keep rising too I have a bridge to sell you. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like liquid fuel... available everywhere... that takes 5 minutes or less to "charge" my vehicle. EV is a solution in search of a problem. EV is a solution to a few problems, and it does very well within it's niche. For now there's a few applications where they make little to no sense, and a few where they make perfect sense. Which is okay, because that's the cool thing about tech, it can be catered to individual needs. For now most applications make little to no sense. Define most? The vast majority of passenger vehicles are used to commute daily, and well within the typical EV range. This is the typical argument used by EV proponents. It makes sense for commuting. Well it does until it doesn’t. Sooner then later subsidizes are going to end. Soon road use taxes will be required, as more and more buy into the lie, power will become a issue so charging won’t be cheap or always affordable. Can you explain how a EV makes more sense then a IC for a short commute to work, sure right now the government is making it make sense, but what if the tables were even? The big one is fuel cost over the year. Plenty of people have posted their real world mileage and cost to charge, and it's peanuts compared to filling up with gasoline every week. Yes I have seen those claims, those claims are also not entirely correct, power costs are going up, a cost from a year ago is not going to reflect todays costs, we also know that road use taxes are coming very shortly or a milage based tax. That home charging unit will also rise as will the cost to operate it. Fuel costs are also artificially high thanks to our administration which also is to blame for the higher fuel costs associated with IC vehicles. Is this part of the plan or just a real inept administration? You are operating on speculation. If you think gas and diesel won't keep rising too I have a bridge to sell you. It’s not speculation, when there is demand for something in short supply the price goes up. Gas and diesel is being artificially controlled and the higher costs are from that. We have more fuel reserves then we have power generation, if you can not see why then you shouldn’t be driving. I have friends in power generation and in electrical transmission. Our demand now can surpass what we can generate and move on the grid, how’s this all going to work as demand goes up from normal demands due to all the additional needs? How about as we take power generation off line? This isn’t speculation it’s a known fact. In Washington we have gas hydro, coal, nuclear, wind and solar, guess which two are useless and which ones our climate change gurus want shut down? |
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Quoted: Does anyone know where all of the lithium is going to come from for all of the battery packs that will be needed for all those battery powered cars? Most of the proven lithium supplies come from mines in China. And they are not exactly friends right now. It's only going to get worse from here. Let's say CA decides to go to mandatory battery powered cars. No gas, no diesel, nothing but tarted up golf carts for the masses. You get a battery powered car or you don't get around. That's being talked about there, isn't it? CA has just under 40 million people in the '20 census. So, 30 million people will need cars and all they can get is battery powered cars. That's 30 million battery packs, and we're not talking about a pair of AAs. The packs for each car are big, and heavy. And very expensive. Sounds like a lot of lithium will be needed for that many batteries. Adding 30 million chargers onto a grid that's marginal already is going to work out... how? Seems that 30 million extra 240 VAC lines won't be a small draw. It's going to be a big one. Will that effect the monthly electricity bill? I presume all of that extra juice isn't going to be "free." Whatever people save at the pump will simply be added to their electric bill. And that's not going to be cheap. Someone has to pay for all of that juice. And the hypothetical covers just one state, CA. Now imagine the multiplication over the 49 other states, and the rest of the world. Future tech may solve the battery problem, but it has not solved it yet. For now, lithium is how batteries like that are made. And there's only so much of it available. How are we getting around that little problem? And, as I asked before, these batteries can spontaneously combust. When they do, the fire cannot be extinguished by conventional means. And it can burn for days. What if that happens in a parking garage? While you're in bumper to bumper traffic? Lots of problems and the solutions are sketchy, at best. At least for now, with the level of tech that's out there. There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tons of new generation that isn't solar or wind? Other than the new nuke in GA I'm not aware of enough non renewable generation to replace what is being shut down. Nuscale has NRC approval for its reactor and is building in Idaho. They have not submitted the cola permits and don’t expect to until 2024 with a “planned” approval in 2026 so they don’t have full NRC approval. I think it’s great, but let’s be honest until all permits are in hand nothing is a guarantee. You probably have more knowledge in this area than I do. I'm going off of this: The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) issued its final rule in the Federal Register to certify NuScale Power’s small modular reactor. The company’s power module becomes the first SMR design certified by the NRC and just the seventh reactor design cleared for use in the United States. The rule takes effects February 21, 2023 and equips the nation with a new clean power source to help drive down emissions across the country. The design is an advanced light-water SMR with each power module capable of generating 50 megawatts of emissions-free electricity. NuScale’s VOYGR™ SMR power plant can house up to 12 factory-built power modules that are about a third of the size of a large-scale reactor. Each power module leverages natural processes, such as convection and gravity, to passively cool the reactor without additional water, power, or even operator action. The NRC accepted NuScale’s SMR design certification application back in March 2018 and issued its final technical review in August 2020. The NRC Commission later voted to certify the design on July 29, 2022—making it the first SMR approved by the NRC for use in the United States. DOE is currently working with Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems (UAMPS) through the Carbon Free Power Project to demonstrate a six-module NuScale VOYGR plant at Idaho National Laboratory. The first module is expected to be operational by 2029 with full plant operation the following year. UAMPS finished subsurface field investigation activities at the proposed INL site and expects to submit a combined license application to the NRC in the first quarter of 2024. NuScale Power has 19 signed and active domestic and international agreements to deploy SMR plants in 12 different countries, including Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic, and Jordan in addition to the Carbon Free Power Project. DOE I’d have to ask a friend of mine what’s up and the status. We talked about them at New Years he works for BPA, and was telling me about project and the permitting. He said they chose Idaho Falls due to their nuclear history and felt permitting would be easier without as many objections. It’s a interesting setup from his explanation, the hard sell is that one evil word, “nuclear”, even though it’s second best form of generation followed by hydro. |
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Quoted: Off shore is creating other problems with marine life such as whales. The harmonic vibrations are creating problems with whales sonar and their abilty to communicate. How long before this ends up getting shut down, more has been cancelled for less because of aquatic life. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: BPA has been trying to upgrade the distribution system for years, every time they get close or a permit lawsuits stop the upgrades and or replacements. There is not allot of new generation coming online, and we have shut down way more then we have brought online. Many were shut down for no other reason then to promote green production and we’re now seeing that’s not ever going to happen, yet the insanity continues by attempting to try it differently and expecting a different outcome. Wind farms are a classic example, they are not working on land, let’s move them off shore. They are costing allot more then originally factored, components not lasting as long as advertised. Right now the USA can produce more electricity then we can move, so please explain how these 10 new plants will change anything, especially in light we closed 50, and even with more closed then are coming online (they are not producing yet, so they don’t even count) we can not distribute what we can generate now. On shore wind is a joke, I really prefer not to do it if I can. A few are fine but they rarely pen out money wise. Off shore actually can be ok, you get much more steady wind making it much more useable. Off shore the turbine are also much larger making them decent producers. The issue is always getting the power in. It can be sorta expensive to holy shit. And then on the west coast at least, if you do get it enough to make it work, the amount of power you will be moving will be enough to need a path rating study to make sure you aren’t fucking up COI or the PDCI. $$$$$. But a lot of the cost here aren’t really a wind problem. It’s going to be environmental nightmare issues getting the power on land and then massive issues with where to dump a shit ton of power and not impact someone else’s transmission rights. Off shore is creating other problems with marine life such as whales. The harmonic vibrations are creating problems with whales sonar and their abilty to communicate. How long before this ends up getting shut down, more has been cancelled for less because of aquatic life. For any power source there is a Karen. After the monster fires here we had people suing us over removing dead trees 
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Quoted: There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know where all of the lithium is going to come from for all of the battery packs that will be needed for all those battery powered cars? Most of the proven lithium supplies come from mines in China. And they are not exactly friends right now. It's only going to get worse from here. Let's say CA decides to go to mandatory battery powered cars. No gas, no diesel, nothing but tarted up golf carts for the masses. You get a battery powered car or you don't get around. That's being talked about there, isn't it? CA has just under 40 million people in the '20 census. So, 30 million people will need cars and all they can get is battery powered cars. That's 30 million battery packs, and we're not talking about a pair of AAs. The packs for each car are big, and heavy. And very expensive. Sounds like a lot of lithium will be needed for that many batteries. Adding 30 million chargers onto a grid that's marginal already is going to work out... how? Seems that 30 million extra 240 VAC lines won't be a small draw. It's going to be a big one. Will that effect the monthly electricity bill? I presume all of that extra juice isn't going to be "free." Whatever people save at the pump will simply be added to their electric bill. And that's not going to be cheap. Someone has to pay for all of that juice. And the hypothetical covers just one state, CA. Now imagine the multiplication over the 49 other states, and the rest of the world. Future tech may solve the battery problem, but it has not solved it yet. For now, lithium is how batteries like that are made. And there's only so much of it available. How are we getting around that little problem? And, as I asked before, these batteries can spontaneously combust. When they do, the fire cannot be extinguished by conventional means. And it can burn for days. What if that happens in a parking garage? While you're in bumper to bumper traffic? Lots of problems and the solutions are sketchy, at best. At least for now, with the level of tech that's out there. There is enough lithium in CA to convert the entire US to "green." Many people confuse current reserves with what is out there, but that is just a simple miss understanding of what reserves means. A simple way to think of it is, at $20 a pound I have 100 pounds for sale, at $50 a pound I have 300 pounds available for sale because suddenly digging in that harder rock is worth it to me. Try getting a permit to mine in California. You can have then anyone else, but if you can’t access it what good is it? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electric vehicle drivers get candid about charging: 'Logistical nightmare' (Page 10 of 12)
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