I own the Hellion/VHS2 as well and I agree with you guys.
The trigger, safety, bolt release, are worse than other bullpups I have.
No manual BHO is weird. Not a deal breaker, but just something I would prefer to have.
The magazine release and CH isn't bad, though.

I had no issue doing drills at 25yd-200yd and I do plan to keep it, but I think it is definitely a gun that could benefit much from civilian aftermarket support.

Given the difficulty of mag changes on bullpups, why not have a self ejecting mag w/ the activation of the BHO & an automatic release of the bolt when the fresh mag is seated?

I wouldn't own one if it did that.  Magazine releases should be something you choose to do (whether it's needed or not), not something that is automatic.  To me, it's nothing more than a gamer gimmick for a square range where the worst thing that could happen is you get DQ'd.  It's one more thing that can go wrong and while it sounds good on paper, I prefer to retain the mag during the change if possible.

YMMV.

I have to wait until next Christmas to shoot my son's.

Well if your ever out in AZ and want to try one. I have most bull pups and I’ve met a few arfcom members at the range to try one before the buy one. Typically meet people at ben Avery or usery. If anyone wants to meet, shoot me a message to coordinate.

If you are in the DFW area you can try mine.   Also I believe Texas Gun Experience has one you can rent.

LOL, you guys that has to have chrome lined barrels on everything....lol,  good lord. Half the shooters probably don't even know the Pro and Cons of different barrel treatments.

I don’t but it’s just a preference for me. I don’t own an AR with a chrome lined barrel right now. Only a nitride one.

My local shop has a used one on the shelf. It was listed at $1650.00. It was posted on their Facebook page. I’m not even tempted to go finger bang it for a bit. I think at that price I’d buy another x95 or another Aug. Maybe another used Tavor Sar. I wish I could get excited about this rifle like I was when it first came out. But I can’t.

if you have a X95 already then it’s definitely worth picking one up. The mine has become one of my favorite shooters just because it runs so clean. The soft shooting & accuracy it a nice bonus.

Well I just picked one up, the grip is ok, but I want to immediately swap it out. What grips are better than the BCM so far? I was thinking with going with a tangodown bg-16.

MIAD is what I went with, Best feeling grip out of all of them.

I just got to handle one for the first time.  I love bullpups, but I didn't care for it.  The balance felt weird... and overall I didn't care for the feel of it.  The action was very nice and smooth, though.

I found the balance good, I can tell you a 805 bren with a can feels every bit of 10lbs I hope that this with the can is better balanced.

Shot it today, trigger isn't as bad as the internet videos said. The reset is short and positive, break is crisp. Is it as good as aftermarket ar15 triggers? No. Is it a long starting pull, yes, but its firmly within the realm of military trigger.

The built-in sights are good, and the safety isn't as wonky as people make it out to be, moving that finger shelf would help. Same goes for the bolt release, if the end tab was slightly longer you could slap it easily as a part of the reload. The grip sucks, and is clearly a cost saving measure from the AR line. I have a miad and bg16 on the way, so I'll see what works better.

Looking forward to getting my mount on for my supressor, and getting optics for it. Looking at either the trijicon credo 1-4x with low rings, a sig romeo 8t, or a holosun 512.

Edit acog for now
Attached File

Attached File


Settled on the moe+ it's just right. Acog was going on another gun so the reflex is just a place holder for a low optic. It's very hard to find a cowitness optic, and I haven't decided what optic to settle on. It looks great with a sig 8t, but can't co witness.

Can is stuck on my other gun so tomorrow I'll hit the range and un stuck it and try on the hellion.

Like when I palm slap to seat the mag in my TT33s(Tokarev pistols)?

Automatic mag anything has turned out to be very difficult to engineer without reliability problems.

Yes, and vector answered my question.

It's a gamer gimmick IMO.  I want to have the option to retain the mag regardless of what the current trendy thought might be.  For me, when something like this is put forward, I look at the worst case scenario or situation and pooping a mag onto the ground where I would either leave it or spend precious time recovering it isn't something I want.

YMMV.

FYI, if you like ACOGs, a mini ACOG on a high Bobro mount will allow you to use the irons through the hole in the base.

the RMR will cowitness.

The Sig Romeo 4T in the low mount plus spacer cowitnesses. I have that set up on mine with an EOTech 5x magnifier, in the Arisaka low magnifier mount. It's like it was made for it.

I just picked one up. Figured I needed to get over the LOP and give it a chance. After doing some living room drills, I do have to admit the longer LOP does make it balance nicely and it "feels" like a solid gun, especially compared to my RDB. I very much dislike the lack of a manual BHO and the trigger kind of sucks. Safety throw is odd. Bolt release is odd. Hell, despite owning lots of bullpups, all the controls feel odder than normal.

So I just went through all this work to make my 10.5 ar not gas my eye every shot and this gun makes it pointless lol

My 10.5 ar with the can on is the same size as the hellion with the can, so 16" zero gas to the face at all, around the same weight, and super soft shooting. My first evil black rifle was a fs2000 and it looks like I'm going back to a bullpup as a primary.


I noticed that with the full sized acog too.


Good to know

Has anyone put an Elcan Specter on their Hellion?  If so, how did you like it?

I stuck mine on out of curiosity, way too top heavy for my liking.

I love it, this is how it's going to stay.
Attached File

Just happened to notice something while finger banging an HK SL8. The cocking handle is the same as the Hellion but I think the Hellion knocked of the SL8!

It takes a lot of design cues from the G36...if you have a G36 clone...the Hellion/VHS2 will fit right in...

The VHS is essentially the g36 bullpup.

This is why I was not surprised that it did so well in Garand Thumb's ice test. Whatever you think of the G36 and VHS-2, the operating system is well proven and reliable.

When I saw Forgotten Weapons videos on the VHS-2 I knew it was well thought out like the G36 and had to have one

I have handled G-36’s and they are incredibly simple weapons to disassemble and reassemble, I hope to see one on a future ice test, the only thing I had is the pins are not captive, but the VHS-2 has them, kudos to the Croats

When I saw Forgotten Weapons videos on the VHS-2 I knew it was well thought out like the G36 and had to have one

I have handled G-36’s and they are incredibly simple weapons to disassemble and reassemble, I hope to see one on a future ice test, the only thing I had is the pins are not captive, but the VHS-2 has them, kudos to the Croats

This.
Don’t know why some people keep naming the Famas when talking about the VHS.. the only thing in common with it is the carry handle design at best

I've been wanting to check out the Hellion since seeing the various YT reviews and finally had the chance to rent one yesterday. I don't have any experience with other bullpups and only shot 40 rounds through the rental (didn't feel like paying for more ammo than that at range prices), so my observations are pretty limited.

I thought it was pretty ergonomic and well thought out, with a few exceptions. I didn't find the length of pull to be excessive, but I'm 6-2 and have long arms. I like the size of the forward handguard and found it easy to grip in either a C-clamp or cupping underneath. The BCM grip felt fine to me, but I can certainly see how adjusting the angle would help different shooters.

The selector bothered me quite a bit. I didn't have trouble reaching it, but I found the angle of the lever awkward. I think if the lever was rotated just 10-15 degrees down (closer to the grip), it would be much more comfortable for me to operate.

The manual bolt hold open is definitely lacking. Having to reach into the magwell is kind of comical. One of the reps in the showroom at the store / range told me that they're going to address that in a future update to the design, but it seems like they would have addressed by now if they were going to, since it's been in service with the Croatian military.

I like the shape and operation of the stock. Only small issue I ran into was that the cheek weld position I needed to see through the iron sights seemed a bit low and caused the stock to push up on my earmuffs and break the seal a bit. I was borrowing a pair from the range, so not sure if it would do the same thing with my regular ones, but it probably would. Not a show stopper, just something that bugged me a little whenever I was trying to get a good sight picture.

Last comment is that I found the trigger reset way too long; it caused me to attempt a follow-up shot on a dead trigger several times because I hadn't released it far enough to reset. It made the overall trigger action feel slow and clunky to me because I was overly conscious of finding the reset after each shot. I'm sure I'd get used to it eventually, but I expect that would make it awkward to transition between the Hellion and other rifles in the same range session.

Overall I'm intrigued by the design and want to like it, but I'd have to spend a lot more time shooting it before I'd be willing to invest in buying one myself. If it was an $800-$1000 rifle, I'd be more tempted to buy it, but I can't risk $1600-$1800 without being more comfortable with it up front.

The FAMAS is also a bullpup rifle design from a 2nd rate European power?

Is the American VHS getting into the market enough to make it worthwhile to get some parts and accessories out there for the gun-buying public?
Maybe something more than the Hellion velcro patch that SAI sell.  My fruitless hope is that the longer barrel becomes an option from Springfield.

That all depends on how the current model sells...so...if people want it to succeed...they need to buy the current model...simple as that...

The fact that we got this platform should be applauded...because you know if Sig would have brought this in (I am just throwing that in the air) ... it would have been a good 1/3 or more the price it is Springfield charging for it...

The Hellion/VHS2 really reminds of how the G36 can be made super modular as the platform updates...

Even the way the barrel goes in and out makes aftermarket offers much easier than other platforms...

Looking at the design, as well as a few other bullpups that have an external magazine chute like the RM277 prototype, it looks like it could benefit from 'competition' style fared magwell.



Really that sort of mag funnel design should be SOP for all bullpup designs to make it easier to gross motor a mag into the magwell.

Looks like the VHS-2 received the same upgrades as the Hellion...MLOK...AR grip module...QD slings...etc...

Pretty cool that we get the same...under Springfield...

I would prefer the gen I and original mag well.  I already have a bunch of ARs.  I don't want another gun trying to be an AR.

I hope somebody imports (or makes domestically) the original grip and some different mag well options.

It’s not trying to be an AR…lol…I would wager that overtime...the military variant will go to standard STANAG magwell as well...

Count me in as someone AUGtistic enough to want one as well

a flared magwell would be nice, one with a manual bolt stop if possible would be interesting. I’d get the G36 well just for OG purposes. I could see an AUG well if you had an abundant supply of AUG mags and an unusual lack of stanag mags.

One could just use ETS Transluscent Coupler mags to get the OG look of the VHS-2...

In my opinion...unless you have a G36...having to invest in another platform of mags would suck...G mags are about $30 a pop...not bad...or maybe it would make you get a G36 clone...bahahah....its a viscous cycle...

AR15 magwell with flare and better release has my vote. I'm not sure what the better release would consist of. Maybe making the mag well in general a tad looser so that mags can drop free? Then the shooter could hit the mag release with the fresh mag to dump out the empty, a la AK reload.

Also hoping for a trigger upgrade and a slightly less angled safety in the future.