I have been looking at buying a Springfield Hellion VHS 2, but after watching a few YouTube videos, I just can't bring myself to fork over the money. I own three bullpup rifles. Tavor Sar, X95 and a NATO Aug. These three rifles have replaced my AR's and AK as my go to rifles. The look and some of the features of the Hellion had me hooked. It looked like a very promising rifle that would fit me well, but did nothing different than my other bullpups. I had my credit card in hand and ready, but something change. I just don't feel like it is for me now.

Was anyone else excited about this rifle and have now changed their mind?

Can you talk me back into this rifle?

I keep watching videos when I see them. I want to love this rifle. I want to feel like its one that I have to have and need. Right now, I have lost that loving feeling.

Yeah - me too

but I found out how heavy it is
plus it's not as short as the AUG

I am back to wanting the AUG with a suppressor gas plug

Yeah, I was mainly interested in getting one to put on the integrated optic setup as a companion piece to my AUG, but the Hellion doesn't do anything better for me than my AUG does.
I prefer AUG mags, I don't shoot left handed, and the height over bore is definitely in the AUG's favor. Add on that my AUG with an 18" barrel and the Ti Minimalist brake for my Nomad is about a half inch longer than the Hellion.

I am really not sure what to make of this rifle. I think the only aspect that I like about it, is the charging handle. I just don't see it replacing the other bullpups that I own. I used to own an RDB, got rid of it. I hated that it was gas adjusted for ammo. I wanted something that when I pick it up and load it, it will fire without having to adjust to the ammo. I also didn't like the overall plastic feel to that rifle. The Hellion I wish I could hold one to finish forming my opinion but no shop here has one.

I bought one mostly out of curiosity, will let you know if it’s worth it in a few days.

Awesome! Keep us posted and I hope you love it. It will be good to get more real world feedback that isn’t tied to YouTube. Enjoy your time at the range!

I liked the feel of the one that I handled at the gunshop recently but not enough to pick one up.  One thing that struck me was how thin the front sight was - I've always hated the square and wide A2 style front sights and the Hellion sight reminded me of an A1.

I was set to buy the Hellion and got to handle one locally. I noticed that the LOP is too long for me as a 5’5” guy so I bought an AUG instead and fit’s perfectly.

Its interesting that the LOP (Length of Pull) has been mentioned a lot. I feel like, and I have not handled a Hellion, that the other bullpups that I own fit me well. The LOP is good. What would I change on my rifles, nothing. Not one thing. The Aug is a simple rifle. I run a light and a red dot with back up iron sights. I went into it knowing that I wouldn't be adding a lot of stuff to it. Same with my Tavor Sar. The x95, is the one that I have options of mounting things to it. I just feel like these three rifles have me covered where the Hellion isn't and hasn't done anything new. Or at least not enough new for me to buy it. And that sucks, because I wanted to buy it and add to my growing collection of bullpup rifles. Maybe I just need to add another Aug to the mix. Make this one a standard Aug and not a NATO one.

Got mine a month ago.  I like the Ambi charging handle, and the fact that when shooting left hand my face is still a few inches behind (right) ejection port (yes I shoot both left and right hand).  Manual of arms take some getting used to.  Strange thing is when shoulder it on my left side, my left thumb can actually manipulate Safety with no issue, while trigger finger is on the trigger.   It's fine for what it is, LOP is OK for me (at 5' 10") as well.

I HAD 2- AUG (16" and 20" which used AR mags), Tavor SAR ( 3 different configurations), the VHS is different and interesting enough that I will probably keep for awhile, may even buy another if price falls below $1.3 and with 20" barrel...

Overall, I agree with your thoughts.  I *want* to like this rifle, but there are some issues...

1.  Length of pull:  While it would probably fit me ok, I look at the other people who will likely be shooting it and it's way too much for them.

2.  Long trigger reset:  This is something that training and familiarity could correct, but right now I'm just not willing to do so (nor do I have the time or spare ammo).  Just like I tend to use the same optics on my common use rifles, so too I want a similar trigger reset on those rifles.

3.  The marketing firm that's hawking it:  After what they did in IL and the unrepentant two-step they tried to use to squirm out of it, I just can't bring myself to buy something of theirs NIB.  

I'm not a fan of throwing money at a new product to "fix" issues that I don't like; enhance, sure...fix, no.  This would require a revised fire control system as well as something done about the stock, neither one would likely be "inexpensive".  For now, I'll pass.  I really wish the Polish MSBS bullpup version would be released...even the regular rifle would be nice.

Just picked up the VHS, I’m pretty impressed, F&F it on par with the X95. With the butt stock collapsed it feels very much like tavor or x95 with the chunky butt pad. It’s well balanced and doesn’t feel 8lbs. The BUIS are some of the best I’ve ever saw. The trigger is long but it’s only 4-5lbs. Pmags & lancer drop free in mine. I don’t really care for the safety but over it seems very promising.

Congrats and beautiful looking rifle. That is one thing I keep hearing. The sights are really nice. Are they polymer or metal?

Like others I was excited.  My local shop got one in and I went over intent on buying it.  After handling it, I passed.  The LOP is loooong and I’m 6’1”.  I really didn’t like the charging handle.  I realize it’s supposed to be a but I thought it was a pain to get to quickly.  I also really didn’t care for the “pinch to release” bolt release or the positioning of the safety.  Just felt all wrong once I was able to handle one.

I’m a bull pup fan, but the X95 and the AUG are just miles ahead.

I wonder why they did the bolt release the way it is done? It kind makes no sense. Most rifles are hit a catch on the side. Its just kind of an odd rifle with some quirks that I'm not sure I would ever get used to. I dig it and I want to love it but I just can't dig it and love it enough to buy it. I'm thinking another Aug with a standard stock would be what I would buy right now. I have a NATO stock Aug and standard would be nice.

metal and very solid.



did you make sure the stop was fully collapsed? It’s no longer than the X95 with the rubber butt pad when not extended. The safety sucks no getting around that, the release can be activated with your thumb or hand. It doesn’t need to be squeezed. As of right now I like the X95 better but I’d take the VHS over US AUG

Interesting. Why over an Aug? What would make you pick up the VHS and not the Aug? Also good to know you can just bump the bolt release and not squeeze it. It’s just kind of in an odd place but that is a training issue. Train with it and you’ll get used to it.

the “US made” AUG quality is not what it should be and hasn’t improved especially in the last few years. I’ve saw a steady decline after the first few year after the M1 dropped. Look at the fit and finish side by side with a A1. most of my US AUGs have exposed metal , grind marks, missing sleeves, poorly chromed & poorly nitrided bbls, loose bbls, gaps in fittings. Stripped bolts, etc. things you usually don’t see on Austrian made AUGs. All my Tavor/X95s and my one VHS have a higher QC than most of the uS AUGs I’ve owned. QC aside the VHS has a better trigger, better mag release, better charging handle , more rail space with very good BUIS, better options for accessories, pressure on the hand guard / VFG doesn’t effect POI, it also has a slight edge in take down ease, so far it seems to have a better barrel. Don’t get me wrong, I love the QD aug bbl, the bolt release, how clean it runs, the look & feel but Steyr us just doesn’t do it justice it deserves. A properly made AUG is a beautiful thing but the US made AUG in it current state isn’t… at least for me. If we had band new Austrian AUGs or at least Austrian spec AUGs with QC on par with the VHS & X95 it would be a MUCH harder decision.

The bolded part can be said to some extent of all firearms.

I too have the rifles you mentioned and an FS2000 also and I love the Hellion. I'm 5'9" and I have no issues with the LOP even with the stock extended a notch or two. It's a smooth shooter. The sights are fantastic and I actually use them to stay in practice. The safety surprised me since I expected to hate it but it doesn't bother me. It's not optimal but hasn't been a problem at all. The release is basically the same way. You get use to it. As mentioned it's nice to shoot lefty even when set up for right handed ejection. The switchable ejection is slick. Not ARX100 easy but simple. The trigger is solid to the point I probably wouldn't spring for a $350 Geissele if it becomes available even though I think it's great in the SAR. To top it all off it is accurate and perfectly reliable. As for the weight, it doesn't bother me but like the other bullpups since the weight is balanced nicely.

The Hellion is different. Think of it this way. People get use to shooting an AR15 and then crap all over bullpups because they are different. It's the same with the Hellion. I don't know why they made some of the choices they made but as a whole it is a fine rifle.

I'm just thankful we have the opportunity to purchase another countries service rifle(well except for the giggle switch), with the way things are going this may be the last chance for an imported service rifle.

Preface: I absolutely love my preban and postban Austrian AUGs (they are my favorite guns in my collection).

I respectfully disagree that the US made AUG rifles are worse in fit and finish than the Austrian rifles. (for ppl who don't know, main difference is the receiver and barrel being US made)
I have several A1, A2/USR, A3, A3M1 to see the details side by side (pictured are all the models I have but not all the samples of each model).
The A3 and earlier A3M1 with forged receivers (Sabre and Vltor made) have the best fit and finish on the receiver.
Sabre forged receivers (early A3 guns) do have rougher machining marks at the sling swivel area.
The recent A3M1 using Austrian cast blank ("SWD" mark) or recent true US cast receiver ("date code wheel" mark) both have better finish or on par with the A1 & A2/USR receivers.
Though, the newest batch using true US cast receiver has a bit rougher feeling on the charging handle, so point goes to Austrian guns for fit.

As for barrels, I understand you've been posting how the early AUG nitride barrels you got failed around 3000-4000rds.
However, as you and I discussed before in other threads, the few nitride barrels I have did maintain integrity even past the 4800rd mark.
IIRC, we both did agree/concluded it is just an early production issue. Perhaps it isn't fair to bring that up anymore since the issue seems to be resolved.

As for other issues you mentioned, I've never heard of those issues so I can't comment.

In terms of performance, the 20" Austrian CL CHF barrel and 20" nitride US barrel both shoot identical.
With Norma 223 55gr FMJ (German made, not Federal rebrand), they are both capable of 1.1MOA to 1.6MOA, 10rd groups at 100yd.

Finally, I'm sure some of us here have seen the recent issue with FEW (2 to 3 or 4) Austrian stocks cracking from very low round count.
Many of us agreed it is a COVID period QC. Just like many other companies in 2020-2021, Steyr USA and Steyr Austria's products were affected as well.

Austrian made items including complete AUGs are not perfect, and neither is the "US" AUG.
We all have preferences but I think it is nice to discuss our observations in a more objective way.

We’ll said……and now I want an A1 even more.

I handled one last week. Lots of things I liked.

I shoot my ARs almost nose to charging handle. With the stock on the Hellion all the way collapsed, the LOP felt fine to me but the rear sight was hitting me in the eye. Extend the stock all the way out...my face sits correctly with the rear sight...but now the LOP is too long.

They should have started the rear sight/changing handle about 2" further forward.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion , after owning around 20 or so AUGs over the years (including A1s, USR, Sabre & Viltor ) I’m pretty confident in my opinion as well but it’s just one of many. Although I have to say my Sabre AUG had tool marks on receiver so I wouldn’t say it was as well finished as the Vltor AUGs. My early M1s were probably the best of the US made AUG I’ve owned (the early FN bbls were very good). Regardless none of “my” US AUGs has the fit & finish quality of my Austrian guns. Like I said before QC aside I’d still take the VHS over the US AUG in its current state. Especially after some quality trigger time behind it.

@FullAssault

How do you like the RMR on there? Have you run it on any other bullpups?

PM if you'd like.

Thanks

Definitely. We all have different observations so I figure I put out mine for others to take in and evaluate for themselves.
In the end, it really is up to the individual to look through the products in person and decide if XYZ is for them or not.

Back on topic with the VHS2, I have one as well to provide some info for other members to consider.
I've been waiting for a few years for one mainly b/c of the unique look and so far I do enjoy it. I'm so glad it made it in for us civilians to enjoy.
That said, I find all the controls minus the CH to be less than ideal and worse than other bullpups (Tavor SAR, X95, AUG, MDR).
In terms of ergos and feel on the controls, it is likely 2nd to last place for me personally, just a bit better than my FS2000.
The accuracy using Norma 223 55gr FMJ and Geco 223 55gr FMJ is about the same, about 2.0MOA to 2.5MOA, 10rd at 100yds.
Magtech 77gr OTM is slightly better, 1.5MOA to 1.75MOA, 10rd 100yd.
Recoil on suppressed setting is very mild without a can. I do recommend others keeping the rifle on the S setting.

I'm mainly a collector who happen to shoot often from 10-1000yds, but definitely not a high quality practical/competition shooter.
I can easily see other people having different opinions on this and that is all good

I guess in the end, as mentioned earlier, it is still up to the individual to handle one and decide if the VHS2 is for them.
It is quite subjective and I hope people looking for one can decide for themselves, avoiding peer pressure and influences from online celebs, etc.

the RMR is ok. It’s fast , light and very well built but wouldn’t be my 1st choice. They tend to have thick tented glass that is rather small. I’ve used them on AUGs ,FS2K and PS90s but they seem to work best on PDWs, pistols or a secondary.  If you are going for light as possible and don’t mind the tint they are most definitely usable. I borrowed this one from my Benelli to see where I want to go with it.

This is a cowitness looking a the bright outside  from a darker interior room.

Thank you sir.

I will put mine on my AUG the next time I go to the range(Wednesday).

Great input and I like that this thread has gone this deep into the aspect of this rifle and comparisons being made of other rifles too.

Hopefully my local shop will get one in and I can finger bang it a bit to see if I want to commit. It’s hard committing to something without seeing it in person. Especially at this price point.

I imagine this describes a great number of us following this thread, myself included.  A long line of "wunder waffe" firearms get glowing reviews, but putting hands on with them is sometimes the only way to know for sure if it works for each person.

What optic is this?

I've got both a Tavor SAR and the VHS-2. I like them both. Completely agree with the poster that said that a lot of the things about these guns are going to fall down to personal preference; handle one and see what you think of it. Personally, I find the controls similar enough to the Tavor SAR that I had a very easy transition from one to the other.

The LOP is not an issue for me, but I can see how it might be for others; my wife struggles with it. The safety is fine for me after changing the grip; I am not a fan of the BCM grip it ships with it (well, on this gun, it's fine on an AR). Charging handle is excellent, as are the sights as mentioned.

Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 5x Prism

I finally got the call for one and should arrive on Monday or Tuesday. I may try one of the Holosun AEMS with low mount or the 512.

Awesome! Keep us posted on how you like it. The AEMS optic is also one that is very interesting to me. I kind of want the. The Holosun 512 is an awesome optic too. I’ve got a 515GM that is really nice. Enjoy the rifle!

LGS had a sale.  I got it for a little under MSRP.  Ran a few mags through it.  I like it a lot.  Waiting for an aftermarket safety selector though.

Attached File

Haven’t had a chance to take mine out yet but I have to say I would like a different safety design. Extended would be nice.

My lgs had two for 1900 so I picked one up. Not a great deal and I assume these will be 1650 or so after the new wears off but I wanted to try it out. Feels okay so far but somthing is off. Might be the grip. I am going to take it out with the Aug, mdrx, and x95 this weekend to try them out. I like the back up sights a lot and it looks great but again something feels off in manipulations at home. I’m going to be Shooting steel less then 100 so no accuracy tests but we will see how it goes.

Here's what I posted in the other thread when I first got mine:





All in all, I think that this is an excellent rifle. The issues that it has are almost all easily fixed with aftermarket support, or with future versions of the rifle. I highly recommend this rifle to anyone looking for a bullpup.

I just bought my Hellion 2 weeks ago and it's my first bullpup rifle. I think buying one and enjoying it is best determined by your motivation for making the purchase in the first place.

It's not an AR, and no bullpup configuration is. It's not all other bullpups, either. I bought mine because I was looking for something that, well, wasn't an AR. Interestingly, when I was at my LGS, I was asked by one of the salespeople why I wanted one. I had to admit that first and foremost it was aesthetics. Previously I was looking at any number of 5.56's, including other bullpups, and this one made me say, "Oh, f*ck, yeah!"

It's got a few ergonomic quirks, but it's by no means a mechanical turd. I was sold (see above).

If you're a bullpup guru, I can see why this may fall short of comfort and expectations. But I also see it like comparing my 2019 Chevy Colorado to my 2020 Ford Ranger. I kept the Ranger. You know: Reasons.

For the first few days after I took it home and fondled it I was developing buyers remorse. It IS a lot of money, but every time I took it out to admire I couldn't help but think that I REALLY dig this. But I had to remember to why I wanted one and again I said, F*ck, yeah!" :)

The length of pull is long. It's long by AR standards and also by traditional measurements, but somehow at my 6-foot height it didn't bother me (stock fully collapsed or at position one). Only when I tried to compare it to an AR or bolt gun did I feel like I was short-changed. Otherwise it felt good and stabile.

The factory grip angle sucks and this is where I think that the above may feel too long for some. The BCM grip is fine. I have the same on my ARs but the angle of the receiver that it fits onto makes it not as pronounced as it should be. I've found this make the gun feel heavier and a bit less balanced than it should be. When holding and maneuvering the rifle any time away from the shoulder my wrist feels like it could snap in some positions. I replaced it with an AR A2 style grip, which has a more severe angle, and the rifle feels lighter and I get more practical leverage when moving it about.

All the other things like safety lever position, mag release, bolt release, charging handle etc. I see as personal preference. This is not a duty weapon for me and I simply see those as differences as intrinsic as the seats in my Colorado being too stiff, or the (factory) suspension in my Ranger being to mushy.

PS: The Sig Romeo 5 without the riser co-witnesses nicely with the factory sight.

I'd get one if they would chrome line the barrel, not paying over a thousand for anything without a CL barrel.

I ordered a VHS today to celebrate!

Wait, you mean the barrels are not chrome lined? What are they? I was kind of getting the itch again, but now, I think I will push it to the back burner. Why wouldn't they chrome line the barrels? At almost, or at, 2K its a hard pass without a chrome lined barrel.

They're Nitrided/Melonited. Unless you're shooting full-auto, this is generally better (more accurate).

I’m very critical of military rifles not having chrome lined bores but the VHS has a very good nitrided bbl, people who know me know that’s not something I say very often. also It’s probably the cleanest semi auto I’ve ever owned. after 300rds the bolt and carrier have virtually no carbon on them. Unlike other nitrided bbls I’ve own this one cleans as easy as a CLB.

Yeah, this rifle is incredibly accurate and clean. I have no concerns about the barrel.
This rifle is seriously impressive. Waiting patiently for aftermarket support to solve ergonomic concerns.

Interesting. Thank you for that real world feedback. I have moved away from AR’s as my primary rifle and moved to bullpups. My Tavor Sar, x95 and then my Aug are how I rotate them out.

I guess I’m in the minority group, the VHS is the clumsiest looking bull pup I’ve ever handled
I don’t see how it could ever replace an AUG or X95

I like the look but the functionality of the gun and some of the features I agree with you.

Au contraire, the Iranians built a bullpup based on the AR.

once you get the manual of arms down (about 15min of play time) it’s on par with the AUG or FS2k. You don’t have to pinch the bolt release, you can hit it with the Bridge of your hand or thumb, the mag release is simple and easy to use . The biggest inconvenience is the safety which isn’t  that big of an issue. Fortunately there’s enough difference between the VHS, X95 & AUG to warrant owning all 3!

I am down with all three, just the hellion, I am slower on mag changes and in general due to the ergos and Magwell. I am working to alter some of that now