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New Ruger SFAR (Small Frame Autoloading rifle) (Page 1 of 51)
Posted: 9/6/2022 11:51:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Izhevsk54r][Edited]
 16 & 20" barrel choices 16" under 7lbs and OAL ~37" .308/7.62x51 |
| this is very good, and I'm not even interested in buying one. but the market needs this. |
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https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
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Originally Posted By MRW: this is very good, and I'm not even interested in buying one. but the market needs this. Already been done. https://pof-usa.com/firearm/rogue/ |
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It had already been done by DPMS before the Rogue if I remember correctly. |
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The SFAR's upper and lower will most likely be proprietary, but I'll bet the POF Rogue/Revolution bolt and BCG will be cross-compatible. I'll be interesting to see if the SFAR takes AR15 handguards; it looks like it already takes AR15 charging handles, FCG, etc. Also would love to see if the barrel extensions are the same as the POF's. |
Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
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Originally Posted By vmpglenn: The SFAR's upper and lower will most likely be proprietary, but I'll bet the POF Rogue/Revolution bolt and BCG will be cross-compatible. I'll be interesting to see if the SFAR takes AR15 handguards; it looks like it already takes AR15 charging handles, FCG, etc. Also would love to see if the barrel extensions are the same as the POF's. Ruger states in their promotional media that the barrel extension and bolt, at least exterior dimensions, are the same as an AR15. |
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Originally Posted By Unit9: Originally Posted By MRW: this is very good, and I'm not even interested in buying one. but the market needs this. Already been done. https://pof-usa.com/firearm/rogue/ Already been done long before that. https://308ar.com/dpms-generation-2-rifles-and-parts-upgrades/ |
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Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Already been done long before that. https://308ar.com/dpms-generation-2-rifles-and-parts-upgrades/ Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Originally Posted By Unit9: Originally Posted By MRW: this is very good, and I'm not even interested in buying one. but the market needs this. Already been done. https://pof-usa.com/firearm/rogue/ Already been done long before that. https://308ar.com/dpms-generation-2-rifles-and-parts-upgrades/ POF designed what is essentially an AR15 that is chambered in 308. An AR15 upper will literally fit into a Rogue lower. You can use AR15 charging handles, barrel nuts, handguards, and other parts instead of the G2's proprietary stuff that isn't AR15 or AR-10. G2 was a step in the right direction, but the Rogue and revolution perfected the concept of a smaller, lighter, more AR15-compatible 308. And from the looks of it, Ruger thought so too.  POF Rogue 308 with BCM mcmr and another one with a 556 Urx 3.1. Try that with a G2. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By giantpune: Aren't all rugers CHF at least? Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: A sub 7 pound 308 AR at Armalite DEF10 prices but with more features except for that 4140 barrel. Mixed feelings here  Aren't all rugers CHF at least? Huh, this showed my ignorance, I just looked it up and you are right. |
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CHF and 5R. Nice. Trigger sounds cool, too. 4.5# two stage. Attached File Best, JBR |
"I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence."
"Yes... yes. This is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... This Land."
"Yes... yes. This is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... This Land."
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Originally Posted By giantpune: Aren't all rugers CHF at least? Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: A sub 7 pound 308 AR at Armalite DEF10 prices but with more features except for that 4140 barrel. Mixed feelings here Aren't all rugers CHF at least? |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: With the price of .308 wouldn't it take a long time to go through the barrel anyway? Or does .308 wear the barrel faster than 5.56? Couldnt tell you. I do know my ruger american in 308 is a 1MOA gun and there's plenty of dudes on the youtube making mile shots with them. CHF and 4140 seems to be doing just fine. Plus these are nitrided. I suspect you are right. You'd spend $10k+ shooting out this barrel. |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: With the price of .308 wouldn't it take a long time to go through the barrel anyway? Or does .308 wear the barrel faster than 5.56? Depending on your accuracy requirements. My last 308 bolt gun went from 5moa to just over 1moa in 4k rounds. At that point to ME that barrel was shot out as it could not maintain MY requirement of sub moa at 100yds. The guy that bought it off me to hunt hogs loves it. And after 4k rounds the bolt was butter smooth. So win win for him. To me a rifle that can't hold sub moa isn't useful. Now I don't expect sub moa with bulk ammo that would be foolish |
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Originally Posted By Winkychevelle: Depending on your accuracy requirements. My last 308 bolt gun went from 5moa to just over 1moa in 4k rounds. At that point to ME that barrel was shot out as it could not maintain MY requirement of sub moa at 100yds. The guy that bought it off me to hunt hogs loves it. And after 4k rounds the bolt was butter smooth. So win win for him. To me a rifle that can't hold sub moa isn't useful. Now I don't expect sub moa with bulk ammo that would be foolish Sub-MOA is much harder to achieve in a semiauto, both from a build and a shooting perspective. I'm good with 1.5MOA in a semiauto .308, YMMV. |
Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
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Originally Posted By Daggertt: Try again. POF designed what is essentially an AR15 that is chambered in 308. An AR15 upper will literally fit into a Rogue lower. You can use AR15 charging handles, barrel nuts, handguards, and other parts instead of the G2's proprietary stuff that isn't AR15 or AR-10. G2 was a step in the right direction, but the Rogue and revolution perfected the concept of a smaller, lighter, more AR15-compatible 308. And from the looks of it, Ruger thought so too. POF Rogue 308 with BCM mcmr and another one with a 556 Urx 3.1. Try that with a G2. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20220718_202737_jpg-2516504.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20220718_202707_jpg-2516505.JPG Yep whole nother league compared to the G2, I got both. I actually would feel more comfortable if Ruger used a larger bolt, but same carrier. Don't trust my Rogue enough to shoot my hot reloads, even with the Aermet bolt |
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Originally Posted By Daggertt: Try again. POF designed what is essentially an AR15 that is chambered in 308. An AR15 upper will literally fit into a Rogue lower. You can use AR15 charging handles, barrel nuts, handguards, and other parts instead of the G2's proprietary stuff that isn't AR15 or AR-10. G2 was a step in the right direction, but the Rogue and revolution perfected the concept of a smaller, lighter, more AR15-compatible 308. And from the looks of it, Ruger thought so too. POF Rogue 308 with BCM mcmr and another one with a 556 Urx 3.1. Try that with a G2. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20220718_202737_jpg-2516504.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20220718_202707_jpg-2516505.JPG Apparently I need a POF Rogue |
Anyone care to venture a guess as to the what 4 extra holes, in the bolt carrier , are there for ? 
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06: Anyone care to venture a guess as to the what 4 extra holes, in the bolt carrier , are there for ? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171545/________________________________________-2516868.jpg Flash suppression 
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Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Flash suppression Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Originally Posted By bfoosh06: Anyone care to venture a guess as to the what 4 extra holes, in the bolt carrier , are there for ? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171545/________________________________________-2516868.jpg Flash suppression Ruger claims safe venting. Looks promising at that price range. |
| I gotta say, and I've never seen, shot, or held the thing, but lately Ruger seems to be doing their homework before new launches. I hope it's not a turd. I just got into large-framed ARs when I built an Aero but strongly considered a Rogue. Now I might be able to have "both!" |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: With the price of .308 wouldn't it take a long time to go through the barrel anyway? Or does .308 wear the barrel faster than 5.56? Yes it’s a bit worse than 223 but it won’t matter because of the cost involved. Originally Posted By NN300BLK: I don't seeing wearing through a barrel being an issue for me personally. I look forward to watching/reading some reviews that probably will be coming out over the next few weeks. The people that talk about wearing out a barrel are rarely if ever the people that actually wear out barrels. I have no idea what “cheap” 308 goes for but a couple cases will cost more than the gun so it’s pretty silly to worry about wearing a barrel out. |
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I'm happy that Ruger jumped out in front with the small frame .308 at this price point. As long as it isn't trash, this will sell like hotcakes and everyone will follow. Yes its a POF clone, but that's the game. If this is the new ran away AR .308 platform, hopefully we see the competition release their version soon. Ruger has learned to find a developed concept (Keltec P3AT) and polish it up. They need to just clone a Glock while they are at it. Add a thumb safety for the weirdos out there. POF has been at it for years, but the close to $2000 price tag made it a 'want' rather than a must have. Had they gotten to the $1200 range, POF would have saturated the market. Even a more stripped down version. With that said, I do understand POF wanting to stick to the premium market and not chase the cheapest AR platform like PSA. Although I do have more PSA stuff than my single POF P308. |
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I think there is a point of diminishing returns on a 6.5 lb 16” AR-10 when it comes to recoil. Even with a brake it’s still 1.5 lbs lighter than a SCAR and 2 lbs lighter than my Colt LE901 In shooting both they are not bad on recoil but still are going to feel it I would be willing to bet this thing kicks pretty bad 8 lbs is a good weight for that platform Colt also has the swap upper ability and when I got mine it was 1.5k and it shoots 3/4-1MOA with every ball ammo I have put through it from all over the world The Ruger looks nice for the money but I highly doubt it will be a sub MOA rifle |
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Originally Posted By badkarmaiii: Ruger claims safe venting. Looks promising at that price range. I wasn't the one asking, it was Bfoosh06. But still good to know, thanks. If I see one under $900 I may pick one up and put a dot on it, to keep things as light as possible. |
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Originally Posted By OldShelbyGuy: I think there is a point of diminishing returns on a 6.5 lb 16” AR-10 when it comes to recoil. Even with a brake it’s still 1.5 lbs lighter than a SCAR and 2 lbs lighter than my Colt LE901 In shooting both they are not bad on recoil but still are going to feel it I would be willing to bet this thing kicks pretty bad 8 lbs is a good weight for that platform Colt also has the swap upper ability and when I got mine it was 1.5k and it shoots 3/4-1MOA with every ball ammo I have put through it from all over the world The Ruger looks nice for the money but I highly doubt it will be a sub MOA rifle The bolt carrier and bolt are AR-15 sized, so less reciprocating mass than in a standard AR308. This makes a noticeable difference. My POF Rogue is also reasonably gassed, so the action isn't as violent as on many overgassed AR308s. Honestly, the recoil on my Rogue, which is 6lbs without anything on it, is entirely reasonable and not at all an impediment to shooting. It's not as fast as my 5.56 guns shot to shot, but it's pretty close. As for accuracy, yeah I don't think the Rugers are meant to be precision rifles. I'll bet they do 1-1.5 MOA with good ammo, though. My Rogue does that pretty regularly. |
Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
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Originally Posted By OldShelbyGuy: I think there is a point of diminishing returns on a 6.5 lb 16” AR-10 when it comes to recoil. Even with a brake it’s still 1.5 lbs lighter than a SCAR and 2 lbs lighter than my Colt LE901 In shooting both they are not bad on recoil but still are going to feel it I would be willing to bet this thing kicks pretty bad 8 lbs is a good weight for that platform Colt also has the swap upper ability and when I got mine it was 1.5k and it shoots 3/4-1MOA with every ball ammo I have put through it from all over the world The Ruger looks nice for the money but I highly doubt it will be a sub MOA rifle My Armalite DEF10 is 7.6 pounds. If you know what to swap out the felt recoil is closer to a 6.8 SPC so it can be done with almost no diminished returns. Serious question here, are you recoil sensitive? A .300 WM or a 7mm Magnum with no brake and a thinned barrel on a Tikka, now that's true diminishing returns. I wouldn't be buying it to bench rest with. |
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Originally Posted By OldShelbyGuy: I think there is a point of diminishing returns on a 6.5 lb 16" AR-10 when it comes to recoil. Even with a brake it's still 1.5 lbs lighter than a SCAR and 2 lbs lighter than my Colt LE901 In shooting both they are not bad on recoil but still are going to feel it I would be willing to bet this thing kicks pretty bad 8 lbs is a good weight for that platform Colt also has the swap upper ability and when I got mine it was 1.5k and it shoots 3/4-1MOA with every ball ammo I have put through it from all over the world The Ruger looks nice for the money but I highly doubt it will be a sub MOA rifle It comes with an adjustable gas block with 3 settings according to Ruger and they even provide some general guidance of when to use each gas setting for reliable function in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP9UCDbQ3Ek And it has a muzzle brake as you pointed out. We shall see how well these two features abate recoil, but it looks they put some thought into this. Further, while I understand that there some differences between my Ruger American and an AR10 that may impact felt recoil, my Ruger American 308 is only 6.6 lbs, has the factory compensator, and the recoil is very manageable. |
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The nice thing about the lightweight is once you add all the extras to it (optics, mounts, lights, aftermarket stocks, rails covers, etc.) it can still be a reasonably lightweight platform. The less expensive (cheap) optics and mounts always weigh more. So you can very easily add weight, which isn't so easy 9 (or cheap) to take off. I have a POF P308 as well as a home built AR10, and both are easily 8-9 pounds naked. Once I add a scope, mount, cheek rest, etc., I'm easily over 10 pounds and probably approaching 12 pounds on the POF. The AR10 was built to be as light as possible, pencil barrel, Troy lightweight rail. I even added a lightweight Burris scope to keep the weight down. That weight is okay for shooting at the range, but I wouldn't use it as a hunting or walking around rifle. It's just heavy enough to not be handy. On the flip side, I have a Keltec RDB 20" bullpup. To keep it lightweight and handy, I got the lightest optic that was inexpensive as it isn't a SHTF platform for me. A Weaver 1-3x in an Aero lightweight mount helps keep it light and handy. |
| The GD thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2583206_Ruger-is-making-a-308-AR-again.html |
Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: It comes with an adjustable gas block with 3 settings according to Ruger and they even provide some general guidance of when to use each gas setting for reliable function in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP9UCDbQ3Ek And it has a muzzle brake as you pointed out. We shall see how well these two features abate recoil, but it looks they put some thought into this. Further, while I understand that there some differences between my Ruger American and an AR10 that may impact felt recoil, my Ruger American 308 is only 6.6 lbs, has the factory compensator, and the recoil is very manageable. Muzzle brakes work wonders but 16” 308’s can be pretty brutal. My AR10 was a ban era gun with the pinned brake and people hated shooting around me. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Muzzle brakes work wonders but 16” 308’s can be pretty brutal. My AR10 was a ban era gun with the pinned brake and people hated shooting around me. This, 100%. I took the brake off my 16.5" Rogue and replaced with an A2 FH. The blast and noise gets old really fast when shooting strings of fire vs one shot every 10 seconds or whatever using a 22" bolt gun. |
Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
New Ruger SFAR (Small Frame Autoloading rifle) (Page 1 of 51)
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