So this is related, but kinda off topic...

So I was making brass for 300 BLK, when I thought to myself, I wonder what .308 could be turned into if the same process was applied. So I grabbed a .308 case, chopped it at the neck, and took some measurements. Here's what I found.....





(It's actually 10.85mm ID, I had to let go to take the picture)


SO, anyone for a .400 Blackout that will feed into / out of an "ar10" with only a barrel swap?



Darn. Original thought, not so original :(

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=80028

I'm getting all my parts in for my 300BLK pistol build and am slowly putting everything together. I don't have the money right now to get the mold and dies for casting boolits.

Is anyone using the Hornady Headspace Guage on re-formed 300 Blk cases? If so, which bushing? I talked to Seth at Hornady and he was going to check it out and call me back but haven't heard from him yet. Thanks

Use the B  .350 insert for 300 BLK.

When I bought my 338 can for my 338LM rifle, I had the same-ish thought with 338 Federal.  308 case necked up to 338.  But after I looked into it I think I decided that 338 Fed has too much case capacity for easily loading subs.  I may get myself a 338 Spectre though, someday, just for giggles.

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Thanks RG1 !

I made some brass :)

just checked, mine are seated to 1.762. shot another100 rounds recently, still no issues

Can someone help me interpret the 300 BLK SAAMI drawing.  Does it say that the cartridge headspace should be no more than 1.0707"?  Think this is correct, but not sure I'm looking at the right dimension.  Thanks.

The dimension of 1.0707" I believe is the dimension where the shoulder starts. Note the dimension above the case giving the diameter and the dimension of .3512" which should be the diameter at the middle of the case shoulder. Your Hornady B .350 insert is just a comparator and not an exact saami spec tool giving exact measurements.  The dimension of 1.0818 should correspond to the diameter of .3512". Your .350 insert should be close but not exact.

Lets talk annealing. Lake City once fire .223 brass. It's all ready annealed, once I cut it and resize it should I reanneal it? Is it needed?
Also I have cut my brass and trimmed it to 1.368, I know that is max length should I trim it down to 1.355?

Annealed.. Yes, as the factory annealing only reaches the previous shoulder - about 1/4' below the point you cut the case to for 300BLK.

 

Damn you guys! now I have to break out my torch. I was so ready to start loading today. I have 50 trimmed to 1.355 and 714 trimmed to 1.368, 200 sized but not trimmed.
So anneal them after they are all cut and trimmed? Or can I anneal them after I cut the brass and before I resize them. This is for the next 1000 rounds I am going to make.

Shot some 125g Pro Hunters over 16.9-17.9g of Lil Gun today. Groups are meh, but shows I need to shoot more. Also not the best rest either. four shot groups at 100 yds.
Bottom three are 16.9-17.3. Top three 17.5-17.9


Also loaded up some Blemished 165g BT Spitzers over Lil Gun



Could not find data for 165g bullets with Lil Gun. I found someone had posted they were using 15.1g of Lil Gun for 165g bullets.
So I went with 14- 15.5g in .3g increments.



Primers don't look too bad, but I might try a few below 14g and see what they look like. Each one locked the bolt back.

Edit- These were shot from a 10.5 inch barrel

Cut to rough length

+eleventybillion

the harbor freight mini cut-off saw with the 300blk jig, and the WFT trimmer. there is no more efficient or cost effective combo for converting brass.

so 110gr 30 carbine round nose, seated to 1.762"...?

what magazines?

Thanks Dryflash3 for your measurements of case headspace with the Hornady .350 insert and your Wilson case gauge.  Note that the saami 300 blackout drawings are for maximum case dimensions and the other drawing is for minimum chamber.

Does anyone know a load for Red Dot powder? I have a bunch of it! I will be loading light 100gr bullets just for plinking. 16'barrell, carbine length gas, no supressor.

Funny you should mention 1.360"

- that is the exact length of the primed, unfired, factory 300AAC Blackout brass as it arrived from Midway.  So, I shoot for that too.  

BTW - all that brass actually got shorter after the 1st trip though my particular chamber (Wilson 16" stainless barrel). YMMV.

okay.  i am almost there.  a couple of issues/questions.

brass is LC trimmed to 1.350-1.353
i am using 175 SMK (pulled bulk mil surplus)  with an OAL of 2.21
lil gun 12g (got the data from a fellow BO user.  any load data for my combo is appreciated)

do i need to crimp these rounds for use in my AR?  if so to what diameter?  cases were prepped with a forster gauge set.  inside case mouth diameter is about .306-.308.

i marked my bullets like dryflash said on page 1.  based on his info the .250 mark on my ammo is a bit in front of the bump on the mag.  what gives?  the 2.21 i am using is also the OAL that is given on the chart on page 1.  the pulled bullets i am using weigh 175g so i believe them to be as advertised........another small issue is when i load my mag, if i am pointing it down the second round moves forward......could this be caused by the .250 part of the ammo being forward of the bump on the mag?  basically the bump on the mag is riding on the .296 of the bullet.

thanks

eddie

Has anybody used these bullets for loading .300BLK? They look interesting.

I think you may want to re-read dryflash's post. If I am reading it correctly he is saying that you need to seat the bullets deep enough that the mark at .250 is no further forward than the middle of the ridge (bump) in the magazine. Because of the large diameter bullets in the .300 BLK they most often cannot be seated close to the full magazine length. I don't know if that is what is causing your second round to move forward, but it is certainly not helping. By seating them that far forward the tips are being squeezed toward the center of the magazine instead of aligning parallel to each other like they should.

Yes. Thanks. I am following that .....the trouble is that the manuals are calling for 2.21 for these bullets.....that is where part of my questions arise from.

I've been looking at a lot of posts about the WFT and have been hesitant about getting it because I don't like the on and off of the drill. BUT it just hit me. I have a micro lathe sitting in my storage building that would be great for this. Chuck it up on the lathe, put the guard down, and have at it.

So my question to you guess that have one, how easy is it to get setup for the trim length and have any of you had any problems with length variations. If possible I'd like to see a pic of the inside to get a better idea of how it works.

WFT uses a 3/8" end mill, 4 flute, high speed steel... Not carbide.  Might consider upgrading to a carbide but for longer service life.

Made a few rounds today for the 1st time. I was using LC once fire brass converted to AAC 300 Blackout brass. Sized and Trimed to 1.365-1.368. Using M80 pulls 147gr. Bullets. Wincherster primers and Winchester 296 Out of an old rusty can. OAL 2.14- 2.17  and crimped. Temps today in Guam were 92 degrees and 88% humidity. The sun was messing with the Chrono. Here is what we chronograph at:

Daniel Defense 16” barrel carbine gas system Brand NEW

147gr bullet 16.5gr of W296
1940 FPS
1901 FPS
2148 FPS
PICS:






147gr Bullet 16.7gr of W296
2100FPS
2047FPS
2104FPS




147gr Bullet 16.9gr of W296
2070FPS
2224FPS
2051FPS
1963FPS

147gr Bullet 17.1gr of W296
2128FPS
2058FPS
2038FPS
2041FPS






Good OLD!!!!! Powder! and primmers in a zip lock bag LOL! Thats all they had in Guam.


As you can see all primers look fine. I do have claw makers from the Ejector. But what really concerns me is the smashed top of the brass and I can see groves in the neck from the feed ramps.
Please let me know what you think and if you need more info.

not sure how many of you have been watching Brad's warehouse for 300 blk trim dies but HERE is the place to get them.

they are in stock and ships same day if you call early enough. I ordered yesterday and should have it tomorrow.

With respect to the dented case necks, that is fairly common with this round.  The case is short enough that when it is ejected out of the port, it spins and the case mouth will usually hit the case deflector on the upper receiver.  I have seen this verified using a high-speed camera.  The dent comes out during resizing.

I suggest that as long as you anneal before you form/size, you will be good to go.

I put a piece of that spongy double-sided tape stuff on my brass deflector and then just used a black permanent marker on the tape to "paint" it black.  Now I can shoot all day and it doesn't dent the case mouths.
 

It's pretty easy to get setup... just a couple minutes of playing with the length.  What I do is take a case setup with the length I want (I trim to 1.350), and after backing out the set screws a tiny bit so the cutter will move, insert the case into the trimmer's mouth and then move the cutters until they BARELY contact it.  I then remove the case and ever so slightly back the cutter out about the width of a piece of paper and lock down the set screws.  I then try a newly formed case that hasn't been trimmed yet (or one that I know is in the 1.36X range).  After trimming, I check it.  If it's where I want 1.349-1.351 I'll just let it be.  If it needs to go in or out, I'll back the screws out and carefully push it in or out a tiny bit.  Lock the screws down and then try it on another case.  I only had to use 2 cases to get it to where it was cutting 1.350.





As to length variation, first of all, I formed all my brass with a Lee full length sizing die on a Lee turret press.  This was done after cutting the cases off at the shoulder of .223/5.56 cases of various manufacturers (Winchester, Federal, Remington).  I lubed them with Lee's sizing lubricant.  FWIW, this was part of the first batch of cases I've ever formed, or even reloaded, (total noob here) but I did about 200 using the WFT.  I'd started out a few days earlier on the batch using the Lee case gauge and cutter and that got old REALLY quick.  Out of around 200, I had 3 or 4 that didn't form correctly for some reason or another, so when I trimmed them they trimmed around 1.358-1.360.  I even ran them through the sizing die again, and they still came out between 1.358 and 1.360 after trimming, so I'm not sure why (yet)...  I checked every case with a set of calipers and I had a couple that were 1.351 and a couple that were 1.349, but the rest were right on the money at 1.350.  The ones which weren't what I wanted are still "in spec", but since I'm using a factory crimp die, I'd rather they all be within a couple thousands so I get a consistent crimp on the cases.





Since the WFT indexes its cut off the shoulder and not off the entire length of the case like a lathe-type trimmer, I'm guessing that my "out of MY spec cases" have the shoulder a bit further forward on the case than the others, thus throwing the over-all length off.. maybe I didn't have them seated in the shell holder correctly or something... not sure.
 

That sounds good then if the variation is minimum enough to not really worry with. I have almost 1k pieces of brass to cut down and form once I find some Hornady dies in stock to take advantage of their rebate program to get some free bullets. I know plenty of places with other brand dies, but ain't nothing like getting free bullets at only the cost of shipping.

I'll have to see about getting one.

I've read through this thread and haven't been able to find any mention of the Barnes TSX bullets...only Tac-Tx and Vor-Tx.   Has anyone tried the TSX in the AR platform 300 blk?  The only bullets I've been able to come with at all a is a couple
hundred TSX in 110 gr and was wondering if anybody had developed any load data (same as Vor-Tx?) and if they've had any success in hunting game of deer size with them.  16" carbine 1:8.  Thanks!

All shot through 9" AAC upper, no suppressor, H buffer. All cycled and bho on last round.

Barnes Tac-TX 110gr Blacktips
OAL: 2.238
CCI 450
18.5gr Lil'gun
AVG 1927
ES 70
SD 26

Barnes Tac-TX 110gr Blacktips
OAL: 2.238
CCI 450
19.1gr Lil'gun
AVG 1962
ES 96
SD 34

Barnes Tac-TX 110gr Blacktips
OAL: 2.238
CCI 450
19.9gr Lil'gun
AVG 2078
ES 62
SD 22

Barnes Tac-TX 110gr Blacktips
OAL: 2.238
CCI 400
19.9gr Lil'gun
AVG 2076
ES 42
SD 15

Shot up the last 20 of my 1st batch of lead bullets I made from the Lee moulds.  Accuracy wasn't all that great (ok, it was pretty lousy at 100-120 yards), but I didn't figure it would be very good because some of them were a bit "rough", IMO.  I learned a bit from that first experience.. number 1, don't smelt lead in a production/casting pot... it's a mess and you can't cast much that's useable.  I also apparently didn't get enough lube on them, as I had lead built up on the last 3" or so of the barrel.  I'll mix up some of the Alox/Johnsons Wax/Odorless Mineral Spirits to lube the next batch since a lot of guys at castboolits use it and have good success with the mix.  I just don't think straight Alox is going to cut it for me...  The lead build-up could have contributed to the lousy accuracy, too.  



Hope to smelt some WW ingots in the next couple weeks since I'll need a break from working on the back porch and tearing out a wall in the house at some point, so once I cast some more using those ingots (hopefully with much better results), I'll update.



BTW, thanks for the info on the Barnes loads above.  I need to load up some to go with my 9.5" Core15 upper and try them out, so it was nice to see the velocities and such.  I'm using Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers, though, instead of the CCI's.  Are they similar to the 450's in how hot they are?

Ok I have a couple of questions:

1.  Does headstamps matter for the 300 blk or can I mix them up?  I have ~500 LC brass as was a ~500 mixed (FC, WCC, RR, Winchester, I.M.G, etc..) and was just going to use the LC brass to keep it uniform, or does it matter?

2.  Does different LC brass dates matter?  Should I sorted based off of their date or just put all LC in one pile?

3.  I have some brass headstamped "MAL 4-82 5.56" (Malaysian I believe), and has been annealed as a 5.56.  The "bluish" color is low enough on the case that it will be on the shoulder when I resize it.  Do I need to anneal these again or not?

Thanks,

Haven't had any issues with any year LC, Win, PMC,or Fed brass. I've read that the neck with a new seated bullet should NOT be larger than .334". A couple brands of .223/5.56 have thick case walls and have exceeded the .334" so I don't try to load them but use them for .223 loading. Too thick of necks can either not chamber or cause pressure problems if they are too tight in the chamber-throat of your rifle. I'd just compare the thickness of your LC case necks to the other brands and not load any with thick case walls which make thick necks.

I tried PMP, and it did not work well for me.  I use WCC with the NATO head stamp or Lake City.





 

Sorry if I missed it but does anyone have any load data that uses Unique or AA7?  Those are the only two powders that I have on hand that might work.  I will be shooting a handi rifle so semi auto function is of no concern.  Im trying to use my 147gr bullets but I have some 168gr as well.  I have seen some people using unique with heavy subsonic loads but would it be possible to shoot lighter bullets as well?

I am looking for some help with a load I am developing. I have 110gr Hornady SP's coming in. I know that these aren't optimal for feeding, but from another thread I have found that if you load it really short it can work. I have found no data for the SP's but I have found them for 110gr VMAXs. 18 or 19gr of Li Gun seems to work. Since I am loading these really short, and the increased depth could cause overpressure, my thought is to start at 16 grains and work to 18.5. Does this check out?


LC blanks trimmed down to 1.358
CCI 41
Lil Gun, increments of .5
16gr-18.5gr
OAL seems to work if loaded to 1.90"

Thanks for the help!