I’d thought about picking up a black powder pistol for quite awhile, and finally got around to getting the project going.  I took it out the range today, had a great time, and wanted to share the process for others to learn from.

Since you don’t need a FFL for black powder, I looked around at a couple of different outdoor shops.  Gander Mt, Midway, and Cabalas.  Cabalas has the best selection, and the best prices.  

I’d wanted a steel frame revolver, as I’ve read the brass ones don’t hold up either with heavy loads or long term.  I also wanted something normal sized, so it was either the 1860 Army or the 1858 Remington.  I liked the looks of the Remington, and Cabalas was (and still is) having a sale on them for $230.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Pistols-Revolvers%7C/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104503680/Pietta-Model-1858-New-Army-44-Caliber-Revolver/731695.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FN%3D1100201%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd706233&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd706233%3Bcat104503680

I got the model with the 5-1/2” barrel.  For another 50 bucks you can get the starter kit, which includes as they list “nipple wrench, powder measure, 2-oz. bottle of Cabala’s Black Powder Pistol Lube, a powder flask, 30 lead groundballs, and 30 felt powder wads.”

But some reviewers on the Cabalas web site said they were disappointed in the quality of the items.  I really didn’t know what I was going to need, so I just ordered the pistol.

The package arrive soon afterwards.  Be aware that an adult signature is required to receive the package, so plan around that.

The pistol is very nice.  Good quality of workmanship, well made, good fit and finish.  A quality piece all around.



It comes with a decent instruction manual, which tells you how to load and shoot it.  After reading it, I figured out what equipment I needed:

Powder of course.  This and the percussion caps I bought locally, as the mail order outfits charge an extra fee for this, due to higher shipping costs to them.  For powder, pistols use FFF powder.  The more F’s the finer the grain.  I picked up 1 pound can of power from Bass Pro for 30 bucks.



The FFFG made me look at it twice, but I was told that the G just refers to grain, so it’s he number of F’s that you’re looking for.

I also picked up a 100 pack of caps.  Now nowhere in the manual does it tell you what size to use.  They had 10’s and 11’s.  I chose 11’s, and chose wrong.  They fit on the nipple, but not very tightly, and under recoil, don’t stay on.  So I need to pick up some 10’s next time, under the assumption that they are smaller than 11’s.  Its about 9 bucks for a pack.



Bullets.  I looked around, and most people seem to be using .454 bullets with their .44, so from Midway I got a box of 100 for 14 bucks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/158840/speer-muzzleloading-bullets-44-caliber-454-diameter-round-ball-box-of-100



The bullets are fine, but beware the dinky plastic box it come it.  The lid fits very, very poorly, and it’s easy enough to spill you bullets on the floor.  They roll a good long way too I found. So tape the box shut.

I picked up a set of lubricated wads, 11 bucks for 100.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/320213/thompson-center-round-ball-patches-45-50-caliber-pre-lubricated-018-thickness-pillow-ticking-pack-of-100



I also picked up a powder flask.  This one holds 5 oz, and the spout holds somewhere between 23 and 30 grains, depending on whose review you believe.  

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711044/cva-range-model-flask-with-30-grain-spout-brass-5-oz



Finally, I got a nipple wrench while I was Bass Pro.  When you get one, make sure it has a little wire extension to allow you to clean out the hole in the nipple.  On this one, you can unscrew the sliver part at the top, and that piece has the wire extension on it.  It’s about 10 bucks.



The revolver was pretty clean when I got it, but to figure things out I took it apart and cleaned out the old oil, crud, and other stuff on it.  A few basics about the Rem 1858:

The manual does a good job telling you how to take it apart.  Put it on half cock, pull down the loading lever, and pull the center pin to the front.  This allows you to take the cylinder out, by rotating it clockwise and out of the frame to the right as you are holding it and pointing it away from you.  You can take a couple of more parts off pretty easily, like the brass frame, the grips, and the loading lever.  Beyond that, it starts to look difficult.  

Other people have said they take everything apart down to all the screws.  I haven’t done that, and probably won’t unless I see rust forming on it.  We’ll see.

Now putting the cylinder back in and locking it in is a pain.  I’ve found the best way for me is to put the hammer back down, so the latch that turns the cylinder is out of the way.  You have to pull the hammer back slightly to get its protrusion out of the way for the cylinder to go it.  Now jiggle it around until the cylinder is being held by both the latch on the bottom of the frame, and the hammer.  Move the cylinder down a bit so there’s a gap between it and the top of the frame, and it’s lined up to allow for the cylinder pin to slide back.  Push it all the way back, and you can rotate the loading arm back up and lock it in place.

Now the nipples.  I had no idea what they were before this project.  They are what holds the percussion cap in place.  I guess they are removable to allow for cleaning, and so if they get completely jammed up with crud you can put a new on one.  For removing these, you need a nipple wrench – the package said fits all sizes, so apparently there is just one nipple size.

On mine, one the they chambers is a bit cross threaded, so it’s a hassle to get the nipple going back in once it’s out.  Be careful and just use finger power to screw them back in.  It should be easy to screw in, and once seated, you give it a palm twist to lock in down.

I put a bit of Slip 2000 around the threads to make it easy to remove the later.  I’ve read some people use grease, I think either should be fine.

Now, off to the range.  I wish I’d taken my camera along, but with all the other stuff, I forgot to bring it.  It was a nice sunny day, and I had the range to myself.

I loaded up the powder flask.  Be careful when you go to screw the cap back on the flask, to make sure you don’t have any powder grains in the threads.  If you do, they can spark from friction and potentially ruin you day.  So load the flaks carefully from the can, then clean the threads before putting the cap back on.

The manual tells you to put caps on all the cylinder and fire them, to clean and dry out the chamber, so I did, and that’s when I noticed the caps were too big.  From then on, I would just put one cap on at a time, fire, remove the cap which was badly spread out, and put on another cap.  So use a smaller size than 11’s with the Rem 1858.

I’d read that a .38 Special case held the amount of powder you want to use per shot, so I used the powder flask to fill up a case ½ for the first test shot.   It shot fine, and from then I used a full volume of the case.  The spout part of the flask is just a little bit more volume than the case, and so at the end of my range trip I was just using the spout to measure the powder.  

For this, I would put my finger over the end, open of the spigot lever, let it fill up the spout, close the lever, and flip it over to have a measured amount of powder in the spout.  I’ve also read you can just put the spout fully down in the chamber so there’s no room for the powder to go, open the spout, fill it, close it, and when you pull up on the flask the spout will empty and fill the cylinder.  I’ll try that next time.

The manual tells you to load up the cylinder while it’s in the frame, which I did for the first few shots, but I found I preferred to take the cylinder out to load it.   I would take the wads and center them in the cylinder, then I used a brass cleaning rod to push it down.  After I loaded and wadded all 6 cylinders, I used a felt cleaning mop to mop up any extra grains of powder that were above the wad.  You want to make sure that the area above the wad is free of any powder.

I put the cylinder back in the frame, hammer on half cock, and rotated it around to have the ball at the 6 O’clock position.  Then you use the loading arm to ram it in place.

It takes some force to ram the ball in.  I started out by just holding the frame in one hand and trying to ram it with the other.  This was a pain, so I found the best way was to use both hands, pressing down on the frame with my left hand while I pressed down on the loading lever with my right.  This rammed the ball home reliably.  You should notice a small shaved ring of lead after the ball is rammed in – this shows it’s the right size, and that it’s a nice tight fit.  Make sure you press the loading lever all the way in – there seems to be some resistance when you compress the powder/wad, but if you keep pressing you can push the loading lever down just a tiny bit more.

After all this, you’re about ready for a drink and nap, but if you still have strength, you load up the caps on the nipples, and blast away.

The weapon fired very well.  No problems at all during firing.  The recoil is very light, between the weakness of the black powder, and the weight of the revolver.  Like a very weak .38 Special load in a full size 357.  Maybe it was my imagination, but it seemed like a slower recoil than with modern powder, which would make sense from the slower burning nature of it.

The sights on the pistol are pretty poor – with just a grove in the back, like a J-frame S&W.  Still, if I did my part, from 7 yards, I got some good groups out of it:



The 4 in or close to the bulls eye are when I did my job of sight picture and trigger squeeze, the 2 low shots are when I didn’t.

The pistol makes an impressive amount of white smoke, which smells exactly like freedom.

In two hours I think I shot 4 cylinders, plus a few test ones, so 26 rounds.  A lot of that was figuring out how best to do things.  In all, it was a very fun time, and I’ll be back with the same pistol.  I’m sure it’ll be a fun piece for others to use too.

Cleaning.  For this, I boiled up some water, and filled a milk jug with the top cut off.  Lots of dish detergent, and a toothbrush, and away I went.  As I said before, I only took it apart to grips, cylinder, nipples, loading frame, and trigger guard.  Time will tell if this is enough to prevent rust.  I did immerse the entire weapon in the soapy water, so hopefully the water got in all the nooks and crannies and dissolved any residual salts from firing that hold in moisture and cause rust.

After the water cleaning, I treaded it as a regular gun and gave it a good scrubbing with Hops bore cleaner for the barrel and cylinder, and mineral sprits for the rest.  Gun scrubber for the internal parts on the frame, Slip 2000 in the barrel and nipple threads, and Rem Oil for the rest, then back in the safe.

Future work.  I need to figure out what nipples to use, so if anyone knows, are size 10 caps smaller than 11’s?  I had a powder measure on order, but the spout works well enough to use just by itself.

I may get a cap holder, as I’d seen one at Bass Pro, which I believe holds 5 or 6 caps, and limits the fumbling that occurs otherwise.  It may be more difficult to seat the 10’s on too, so the tool may be useful for seating.

I’d thought about getting a bullet press, to allow for loading all aspects of the cylinder from the bench, but the real work is the powder and wad, as the bullet isn’t hard to seat using the loading lever.

Bass Pro had pre-formed pellets for sale too.  These were more expensive, but if they are safe to use in revolvers, I might pick up some later and give them a try. It would make loading a lot less work, but then again, that work is what makes a black powder gun something special compare to cartridge guns.

Overall, it’s been a very fun project, and I’ll add the Remington to my standard rotation of guns to fire.

Hope this helps someone getting into BP pistols.

I love BP weapons of any kind.  I have two pistols, a .50 cal inline and a .45 cal 1851 Navy Colt style (steel)....

Good shooting. Now shoot it at 25 yds & report back.

I use a .451" ball with bore butter seal; it takes very little pressure to seat and they shoot wonderfully.

YouTube: Off a Rest, Black Powder Pistol, 40 Feet

You have a beautiful pistol and have done some good shooting; enjoy yourself!

Yes, 10s are smaller than 11s.  You can pinch the 11s so that they stay on until you use up the 11s. You do not want to shot it w/o all the loaded cylinders capped.  Speculation I've read says crossfires are more likely to happen by the flame jumping to the next cylinder through an uncapped nipple.  I tend to believe that theory as when a ring of lead is sheared off the bullet on loading it and you use grease, or better yet, a wad there isn't much of a path for flame to get to the power though the front of the cylinder.

You have patches for a muzzle loading rifle.  You need wads for a revolver such as Ox Yoke Wonder Wads.  They are thick and fill the full diameter of the bore.



I like the larger diameter balls.  (i.e. the .454 or .457 vs. .451)  I get better accuracy and higher velocities with them in my 1860 Colt.

I'm not sure how much powder a .38 special case will hold but you might want to get yourself a powder measure to get a better idea of how much you are using.  Not because of any danger but because you might be shooting a very light load.  I can shoot 35 grains of real black powder under a ball.  It's likely that your despenser is only throwing 25 or so.  A BP revolver will be safe w/ any load you can put in the chamber and still seat the ball.  Put too much in and you can't seat the ball fully?  Get out your pocket knife and carefully whittle the part of the ball that is sticking out off.

Finally, I've found Pyrodex far more corrosive than real black.  I don't know about 777 but you might consider trying real black in the future if you can get it in your area easily.

OP, shop around your local gun stores. The prices you are paying for caps and powder are pretty high as compared to what is around me.

I understand you are just getting into it and you are feeling it all out so no worries.

Their also exist "bullet" shaped projectiles that may give you better accuracy than RB (round balls). They typically cost a bit more but if your interested in seeing what your Remington can really do, keep that in mind.

I'm interested in maybe getting a Remington like yours; I have nothing but Colt's 1851 models and 1873 Walkers.

Best of luck to you OP, good looking gun you got!

Thanks for the replys.  I had thought the patches were a big large for my needs.  I pushed them in and then rammed in flat so it worked, and I'll use them up, but I'll hunt for some of those round wads for later.

Good info about the 10 primers, and for the danger of flame going in via the open nipple.  So I'll pick up some 10's before I go shooting again.

Also, for other rookies, after thinking more about it, I'm not going to use the flask to load up the chambers.  Some recommend doing it that way, but other, more wise folks have written that if you have some smoldering embers in the chamber, if you use the spout to fill it up, it could ignite both the powder in the spout and also the larger volume in the flask.  Holding onto 5 oz of buring powder is not something I want to experince.

So I have a small powder measure coming in.

Anyone have any expericne using the pre-formed pellets in a .44 cal revolver?

And what weight of powder are you all using?

Last, where are you picking up powder and primers?  At larger gun shows?  With the haz fee I don't want to mail order them, and the selections at the local shops are limited.

Thanks,

Nice New Army and a great write up OP! It looks like you are off to a good start with the "Dark Arts".......!

I shot my first black powder pistol back in October of last year. It was the exact one you have, a 5-1/2" Pietta New Army. The bug bit me pretty hard after that and I bought my first 5-1/2" New Army shortly thereafter in November from Cabelas when they were on sale for $179.00. Then I picked up another 5-1/2" one for Christmas. Combined with the other specials offers they had, I ended up getting them for around $185.00 each. I was perusing one of the other gun boards and found a NIB 8" going for $185.00 with a holster and I ended up buying that baby to round out my trio.

We have a black powder group at our range that meets once a month. I took my BP guns down there and the old timers showed me the ropes. I sure have learned a  bunch from those guys. As pointed out by others, you are shooting with rifle wads. I use the lubed "Wonder wads" in my pistols and they work great. I have shot the Pyrodex 'P' pellets out of my New Army's and they work fine. Very quick and easy to use. I also have shot the pellets out of a Uberti Third Model Dragoon and for some reason we got a delayed ignition with them. I am not sure why that occurred though.

As I mentioned in your other thread, I use an adjustable powder measure for loading both my BP pistols and rifles. They are inexpensive and work great. The BP club I shoot with does not allow charging out of a flask for safety reasons.

I have shot .451's out of my pistols and while they were easy to load, I did not find them all that accurate. I wanted to get some .454's, but no one nearby had them, so I ended up with .457's. I use a loading stand for my cylinders, so the larger diameter ball is easy to load and it throws a nice lead ring.

I am pretty fortunate that both gun shops here in town carry a good selection of BP gear, so I just buy all my stuff locally.......

Good luck with your BP shooting.......Keep your powder dry........!

I have never used patches or wads for a BP revolver.  Why do you think it is necessary?  



I do understand the need for filler, if you are shooting pip-squeak loads, however.

Do you use grease on the chamber mouth?

I use lubricated wads because I find them handier than using grease.

Elmer Keith used wads...  If it's the way Keith did it, it's got to be right.

I have used grease, however, have found it unnecessary with proper fitting balls where lead is shaved off when seated. I haven't seen fouling that would shut things down in 50 rounds.

Be aware of that Hodgdon 777: It is NOT designed to be used volume-for-volume with black powder like Pyrodex.
It is its own propellant, so charges are unrelated to black powder.
You'd do well to visit the Hodgdon site and learn what is recommended for your .44 Remington –– and NEVER exceed Hodgdon's maximum recommendation.
Hodgdon has the instruments to measure pressure, and trained ballisticians to interpret the data. Few shooters have such equipment, or access to such instrumentation, so it's all guesswork when someone recommends a load greater than what the manufacturer recommends.
Cap and ball revolvers have no case or primer to examine. In cartridge guns, these may (or may not) give warnings of excessive pressure.
The nearest indicator of excessive pressure in a cap and ball revolver is the fragmenting of percussion caps from firing. Sometimes, the excessive pressure can be so great that it will push the hammer back to halfcock. If you experience caps that are consistently fragmenting beyond normal, or the hammer is rebounding to halfcock, you are FAR beyond acceptable pressure.
It doesn't matter that metallurgy has improved since these revolvers were first introduced, the weak point is DESIGN. The revolver's design is what limits it to lower pressures.
So, visit the Hodgdon website and learn what is acceptable for your steel-framed Remington if you're using 777.
Incidentally, Hodgdon does not recommend that 777 be used in brass-framed revolvers. You can use Pyrodex P in brass or steel-framed revolvers, but 777 should only be used in the stronger steel-framed guns.

And yes, you bought the wrong "wads." You need felt wads for your revolvers, not cloth wads intended to enclose a lead ball in a rifle bore.

Conical bullets?
The most accurate I've found is the Lee .450-inch in my own Uberti-made Remington .44.
The particulars are:
Lee 200 gr. .450-inch heeled bullet, cast from soft lead
Lubricated with Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant (1 part canning paraffin, 1 part mutton tallow, 1/2 part beeswax –– measured by weight, not volume)
Goex FFFG black powder –– 26.4 grains, as thrown by measure.
Remington No. 11 percussion cap, pinched into an elliptical shape to better cling to the nipple.

At 20 yards from a benchrest, all six conical bullets went into a 1-1/2" group. This is the best I've ever done with any conical bullet.
I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers for more than 40 years. The Lee conical bullet is the most accurate conical bullet I've found, but a lead ball will equal this accuracy with a good load and eyeballs behind it.
I much prefer .454 or .457 inch balls. Not only does a larger ball seal tighter in the chamber, but it MAY enhance accuracy because the larger ball creates a wider bearing band for the rifling to grip.
As far as I know, I was the first to propose these effects, resulting from a larger ball. I first posted the recommendation in 1998 or 1999.

I've tried a variety of conical bullets over the years, and none have been as accurate as a properly sized ball –– except for the Lee. It's a good conical bullet, but not commercially available. You have to cast your own, though I occasionally see them offered on Ebay or Gunbroker, cast but unlubricated.
Experiment with conical bullets if you wish, but they are much more expensive to purchase than lead balls. They're trickier to load straight in the chamber than a ball, and unless they have grooves filled with lubricant, you must apply grease over the seated conical to provide lubrication.
If you're just shooting paper and tins cans, and the occasional rabbit, there's no need to use conical bullets. Lead balls are easily purchased, loaded and accurate. What more do you need?

A couple of questions:

Anyone have a recommendation for a, belt holster for the Rem 1858 with the 5-1/2" bbl?

What is "black powder subsitute"?  Is it some other formulation than true black powder (sulfer, charcoal or carbon, and potassium nitrate), but with a similar explosive speed and pressure so it can be used instead of true black powder?  If so, then why hasn't someone invented or sold a subsitute that does not corrode like BP?

What bullet weight is a lead ball in .454 or there abouts?

With your normal loads of powder, what kind of velocites are you getting from a 5-1/2 barrel?

And just a a wild question, for stupid states like Ca or IL or other shit holes where you can't carry a firearm, are there laws against carrying a BP pistol, which is not considered a firearm by the Feds?  I don't think you'd have too many issues with criminals if you pointed a good .44 BP pistol at them.
Thanks,

BP subs like Pyrodex and 777 are classified as propellants, whereas true black powder is classified as a low explosive. Though they generate pressures compatible with black powder firearms, they burn more like a smokeless propellant. Their one true advantage is that they are subject to the same shipping and storage requlations as smokeless, not the rediculous regs that apply to BP. And they do work well in high-tech modern (non-traditional) so-called "black powder" hunting rifles.

But I don't like them. It's a personal choice and I don't expect everyone to agree. When dealing with traditional BP firearms, there are real trade-offs that will not really affect some shooters but will be a thorn in the sides of others.
And in every case in my personal experience they are as much or more corrosive than black powder, and harder to clean up after.

It is a misperception to think that black powder firearms are not "firearms" in the eyes of the law.
Carry one concealed in violation of such laws, and I guarantee you'll be prosecuted just as quickly as if you were carrying a .38 Special.
The confusion stems from federal law not listing muzzleloading firearms as "firearms" as far as shipping and purchasing go.
Years ago, when I was a reporter in Idaho, a convicted felon was flabbergasted because he'd been hunting with a .50-cal muzzleloading rifle. He wrongly assumed it wasn't prohibited, as were cartridge guns. He was returned to jail for that stunt.
Bring up all, "but what ifs" you want, but the truth is: if you're in violation with a modern firearm, you'll be equally in violation with a muzzleloader.

Double-posted. Disregard.