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Posted: 10/13/2014 8:34:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 11:17:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Excellent review Paul!  The pros you highlighted were some of the primary reasons I bought one of these.  It's a very well thought out design.
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 11:28:50 PM EDT
[#2]
The only issue I see with it is that it doesn't locate the bolt catch plunger hole, Anderson Arms has been shipping 80% lowers that are not drilled for the bolt catch plunger. (I have two)
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 11:36:08 PM EDT
[#3]
OST. Looks like this is the route I want to go



Thanks OP!
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 11:50:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 2:17:49 AM EDT
[#5]
That turned out really good. Mine using the router was not as nice but still GTG. I really like these jigs.

My only thoughts for improvement would be having more holes to drill out. I understand this takes more time but I think having a little more material removed with  a drill would help when using a router. Wont matter for a actual mill. It still works very well IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 2:57:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paul:


Yikes. I'd have to look at my jigs but I think only my 1998 era Tannery had that feature as those "80%" lowers were closer to what we call 40% ... of course back then we didn't have electric motors and the lowers were made out of stone ...

I'll have to pull out my other jigs to see if they index the bolt catch plunger.
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Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
The only issue I see with it is that it doesn't locate the bolt catch plunger hole, Anderson Arms has been shipping 80% lowers that are not drilled for the bolt catch plunger. (I have two)


Yikes. I'd have to look at my jigs but I think only my 1998 era Tannery had that feature as those "80%" lowers were closer to what we call 40% ... of course back then we didn't have electric motors and the lowers were made out of stone ...

I'll have to pull out my other jigs to see if they index the bolt catch plunger.

IMO, the bolt catch plunger is something most people can just WECSOG with a well calibrated eye ball.
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 1:51:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Based on this excellent writeup I just ordered one of these jigs...

I have a drill press (from Harbor Freight so its not the best in the world but it is one of the better ones they sell), and an old Craftsman router...   but do y'all think I can do a decent job with those tools or should I really shell out the $500 or so to buy a benchtop end mill?  Or could I get by just buying a variable speed plunge router?

Link Posted: 10/14/2014 2:13:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice review. I am a rookie at working with firearms, but I do have a milling machine and a decent drill press.

What bothers me is that I had to look up what WECSOG. I learn new things every day.

Roy
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 3:21:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 6:00:53 PM EDT
[#10]
I guess I'm going to have to get one of these and my next build will be from an 80% lower.  Damn! I've been bitten by the build bug!
Link Posted: 10/14/2014 11:48:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Based on this excellent writeup I just ordered one of these jigs...

I have a drill press (from Harbor Freight so its not the best in the world but it is one of the better ones they sell), and an old Craftsman router...   but do y'all think I can do a decent job with those tools or should I really shell out the $500 or so to buy a benchtop end mill?  Or could I get by just buying a variable speed plunge router?

View Quote


You don't need a plunge router. You need a variable speed laminate router like a Bosch PR20EVSK or similar.
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 12:39:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 12:59:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Nice write up.
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 1:21:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Nice, informative review. Much appreciated...
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 2:10:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Nice write up and that's a very clever jig.  Did you consider not connecting the two wells?
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 2:40:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 2:49:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paul:


I've seen lowers like that ... weren't those designed to prevent the use of a lighting link or something?
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Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By backbencher:  Nice write up and that's a very clever jig.  Did you consider not connecting the two wells?


I've seen lowers like that ... weren't those designed to prevent the use of a lighting link or something?


They do that - but by leaving the material in place, it strengthens the receiver marginally.  Just wondered if you'd considered doing so - given your rate of production.  
Link Posted: 10/15/2014 10:22:06 PM EDT
[#18]
I think the amount of structure it adds is negligible. It does remove a little bit of weight too.
Link Posted: 10/16/2014 4:33:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SSCamaro:


You don't need a plunge router. You need a variable speed laminate router like a Bosch PR20EVSK or similar.
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Originally Posted By SSCamaro:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Based on this excellent writeup I just ordered one of these jigs...

I have a drill press (from Harbor Freight so its not the best in the world but it is one of the better ones they sell), and an old Craftsman router...   but do y'all think I can do a decent job with those tools or should I really shell out the $500 or so to buy a benchtop end mill?  Or could I get by just buying a variable speed plunge router?



You don't need a plunge router. You need a variable speed laminate router like a Bosch PR20EVSK or similar.


15000 - 35000 rpm?  Isn't that too fast for milling?
Link Posted: 10/17/2014 4:23:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
15000 - 35000 rpm?  Isn't that too fast for milling?
View Quote


I believe the Modulus arms manual says they did their lowers at around 24,000 rpm.  I've done a couple with my router at 25000 and I got a little clatter, so I may try to slow it down a little on my next lower.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 2:18:17 AM EDT
[#21]
That is the one they recommend in the instructions.


http://www.modulusarms.com/content/AR-15%20Jig%20Instructions%20ver%201.7.pdf

Link Posted: 10/18/2014 8:20:03 AM EDT
[#22]

Thanks Paul.


Currently I have 1 80% and I am looking at different jigs. This one sounds great. The nice part about it is, that if this project turns out well, I plan on doing more and using different lower manufacturers.





I don't have any machines, but my buds dad owns a machine shop and has mills. I will be doing all the work myself, but it would be nice to use his equipment.





I could probably do it without a jig at the machineshop or is that a huge undertaking that requires years of machine shop experience?


Link Posted: 10/18/2014 8:59:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Add drill bushings and you've got my money.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 10:45:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Paul] [#24]
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 10:58:22 AM EDT
[#25]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paul:
I've chased 'trons all my life ... not turned wrenches. I am not a machinist by any measure.



You're about 99% likely to complete the lower good enough that it will work ... about 97% to do it flawlessly. I've now made more than a handful of 80% lowers and only had issues with my first one back in 1998 when those lowers required drilling out all holes - including finishing the magazine well (uggh!) and the buffer extension hole. Using today's 80% lowers and a jig like this one you're going to have to work hard to not get it finished correctly. The best feature of this jig is that it's design is "outside-the-box" in that it indexes (and holds) the 80% differently. The thickness of the side walls (the width measurement of the lower) varies a bit as does the design of the magwell flare and trigger guard (some have them others don't). The Modulus Arms grips the points where the industry standard upper meets the lower. You then attach the side walls - there's a bit of movement allowed until locked down to allow for different width lowers - index the rear take down pin (EXCEPT WHILE MILLING THE REAR POCKET!!) and tighten up.



The nice thing about doing the work at your friends shop is that they're good tools there to use. There are wonderful videos on the Modulus Arms site and following them step-by-step makes it easy to complete. A good machine shop is going to have the vice to clamp the work solid, cutting fluid, and a good mill. I cut aluminum at 1250 RPM and use a cutting fluid to keep things cool.
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Originally Posted By Paul:



Originally Posted By OverScoped:

Thanks Paul.



Currently I have 1 80% and I am looking at different jigs. This one sounds great. The nice part about it is, that if this project turns out well, I plan on doing more and using different lower manufacturers.



I don't have any machines, but my buds dad owns a machine shop and has mills. I will be doing all the work myself, but it would be nice to use his equipment.



I could probably do it without a jig at the machineshop or is that a huge undertaking that requires years of machine shop experience?





I've chased 'trons all my life ... not turned wrenches. I am not a machinist by any measure.



You're about 99% likely to complete the lower good enough that it will work ... about 97% to do it flawlessly. I've now made more than a handful of 80% lowers and only had issues with my first one back in 1998 when those lowers required drilling out all holes - including finishing the magazine well (uggh!) and the buffer extension hole. Using today's 80% lowers and a jig like this one you're going to have to work hard to not get it finished correctly. The best feature of this jig is that it's design is "outside-the-box" in that it indexes (and holds) the 80% differently. The thickness of the side walls (the width measurement of the lower) varies a bit as does the design of the magwell flare and trigger guard (some have them others don't). The Modulus Arms grips the points where the industry standard upper meets the lower. You then attach the side walls - there's a bit of movement allowed until locked down to allow for different width lowers - index the rear take down pin (EXCEPT WHILE MILLING THE REAR POCKET!!) and tighten up.



The nice thing about doing the work at your friends shop is that they're good tools there to use. There are wonderful videos on the Modulus Arms site and following them step-by-step makes it easy to complete. A good machine shop is going to have the vice to clamp the work solid, cutting fluid, and a good mill. I cut aluminum at 1250 RPM and use a cutting fluid to keep things cool.
Thanks for getting back to me. My friend says his father has the whole works, except he doesn't have CNC's. Several different Bridgeport mills to choose from.  Its an old school shop, but I'm sure its a lot better than my drill press.



 
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 6:24:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 11:21:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StealthM8:
Add drill bushings and you've got my money.
View Quote


If you can use this, you can add drill bushings pretty easily.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 11:28:39 PM EDT
[#28]
The sides have 2x the holes and can be flipped over so the drill bushings aren't needed. You get two for one with the sides.
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 12:26:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Hey Paul, I've noticed in several of your photo threads, you seem to use the clamp kit instead of a mill vise.  Is that because you have limited z-axis travel or do you just prefer the clamp kit?

I am close to pulling the trigger on a mini-mill and wonder if a mill vise is money needlessly spent.
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 8:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: uxo2] [#30]
my jig came in.

Looks like my brother and BIL will be doing the first ever 80%

So we will have 3 different lowers on this jig.

Standard forged

One Billet

and a plastic from ares that I will be making into a light weight 22.

We will be using a router
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 10:17:35 PM EDT
[#31]
How difficult would it be to make a working wooden lower with this jig?
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 10:41:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By uxo2:
my jig came in.

Looks like my brother and BIL will be doing the first ever 80%

So we will have 3 different lowers on this jig.

Standard forged

One Billet

and a plastic from ares that I will be making into a light weight 22.

We will be using a router
View Quote


Post results!
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 10:42:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By backbencher:
How difficult would it be to make a working wooden lower with this jig?
View Quote


Ditto!
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 10:46:02 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By Bretshooter:


Post results!
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Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Originally Posted By uxo2:
my jig came in.

Looks like my brother and BIL will be doing the first ever 80%

So we will have 3 different lowers on this jig.

Standard forged

One Billet

and a plastic from ares that I will be making into a light weight 22.

We will be using a router


Post results!




You bet
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 10:57:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
How difficult would it be to make a working wooden lower with this jig?
View Quote


It probably would look better than this one does....

Link Posted: 10/23/2014 12:50:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


It probably would look better than this one does....

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52313d0f74d80eaa768c21f6c50572f7.jpg
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By backbencher:  How difficult would it be to make a working wooden lower with this jig?


It probably would look better than this one does....

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/52313d0f74d80eaa768c21f6c50572f7.jpg


True - Orion's Hammer recommends not repeating his experiment in pine.  But it did fire 3 shots.
Link Posted: 10/23/2014 10:07:22 AM EDT
[#37]
awesome write up. I had seen these billed as universal jigs and really wondered how that could be. once I saw how it worked I thought it was very slick. now seeing you put it to the test has really sold me. I only have like 10 blanks on order that will need to be done....

I do wonder about drilling the side holes. it has usually been advised to drill these prior to doing the FCG pocket due to flex/deflection in the long and thin drill bit. with this jig though each side is a separate process, so less chance of this happening. there could be a bit of a chance to have misalignment from side to side though. Paul, would you see any advantage/disadvantage do drilling these holes before doing the FCG, or do you think it is accurate enough to not worry about it?
Link Posted: 10/23/2014 9:32:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: XJ] [#38]
Any thoughts as to using one size smaller drill bit and a reamer, instead of the "hole-size" drill bit?


Wasn't sure if that would better protect the edges of the jig, for those like me who are twitchy amateurs with power tools.


Having just ordered this nice jig, I'd hate to screw it up when a couple bucks for another tool would be wise.    


Link Posted: 10/23/2014 10:12:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By XJ:
Any thoughts as to using one size smaller drill bit and a reamer, instead of the "hole-size" drill bit?


Wasn't sure if that would better protect the edges of the jig, for those like me who are twitchy amateurs with power tools.


Having just ordered this nice jig, I'd hate to screw it up when a couple bucks for another tool would be wise.    


View Quote


Roseville has .154 holes BUT, their website has issues. I'm wondering if they are gone.  LINK
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 10:19:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By XJ:
Any thoughts as to using one size smaller drill bit and a reamer, instead of the "hole-size" drill bit?


Wasn't sure if that would better protect the edges of the jig, for those like me who are twitchy amateurs with power tools.


Having just ordered this nice jig, I'd hate to screw it up when a couple bucks for another tool would be wise.    


View Quote



great idea. I am worried about enlarging the holes in the jig side plates with as many pieces I have to work on (10 right now, and Im sure some friends will want to do so as well. I could see one jig being used for 20 receivers). I was contemplating installing drill bushings but this might be a better way to go.
Link Posted: 10/26/2014 2:24:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SSCamaro:


You don't need a plunge router. You need a variable speed laminate router like a Bosch PR20EVSK or similar.
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Originally Posted By SSCamaro:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Based on this excellent writeup I just ordered one of these jigs...

I have a drill press (from Harbor Freight so its not the best in the world but it is one of the better ones they sell), and an old Craftsman router...   but do y'all think I can do a decent job with those tools or should I really shell out the $500 or so to buy a benchtop end mill?  Or could I get by just buying a variable speed plunge router?



You don't need a plunge router. You need a variable speed laminate router like a Bosch PR20EVSK or similar.


I can't find anyone local that has that Bosch in stock, so I just bought a Makita RT0701C which seems to have similar specs to the Bosch.  From what I've heard over the years Makita has a fairly good reputation for quality and the one I got actually has more power (1.25 HP vs. 1.0 HP) and wider speed adjustability (10,000 RPM - 30,000 RPM vs. 16,000 RPM - 35,000 RPM) with more of the range to the slower side, the other specs like the size and collet capacity are the same or similar.  Hopefully this one will work out good.  I didn't have a lot of choice the Makita was about the only thing I could find that looked similar to the Bosch.
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 12:06:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 908ssp] [#42]
If you have a milling machine you don't need a jig of any kind. You just need a print there are many on the net available for free so don't pay for one keep looking. You don't need a CNC machine unless you are going to production. Learn to operate your milling machine and it will look better and be more accurate than any jig.
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 2:40:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Paying all the money for a Monulus arms Jig it would come with a Drill bushings. If they would start installing them I would buy one.
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 3:30:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lawdog-1:
Paying all the money for a Monulus arms Jig it would come with a Drill bushings. If they would start installing them I would buy one.
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If they added drill bushings to the Modulus jig it would probably increase the price significantly.  You don't really need bushings, especially if you've got a decent drill press and good, sharp drill bits.
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:


If they added drill bushings to the Modulus jig it would probably increase the price significantly.  You don't really need bushings, especially if you've got a decent drill press and good, sharp drill bits.
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Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By Lawdog-1:
Paying all the money for a Monulus arms Jig it would come with a Drill bushings. If they would start installing them I would buy one.


If they added drill bushings to the Modulus jig it would probably increase the price significantly.  You don't really need bushings, especially if you've got a decent drill press and good, sharp drill bits.



I have had no issues and it seems like OP did well without them
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 5:49:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By uxo2:



I have had no issues and it seems like OP did well without them
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Originally Posted By uxo2:
Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By Lawdog-1:
Paying all the money for a Monulus arms Jig it would come with a Drill bushings. If they would start installing them I would buy one.


If they added drill bushings to the Modulus jig it would probably increase the price significantly.  You don't really need bushings, especially if you've got a decent drill press and good, sharp drill bits.



I have had no issues and it seems like OP did well without them


Most other brands of jig besides Modulus don't include them either...  I've only seen a couple that do.
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 12:46:43 AM EDT
[#47]
I think adding drill bushings would probably increase the number of times you could reuse the jig by quite a bit though. Why not make them out of steel to begin with?
Still looks to be the best jig out there though. I've been saving up my mad money to try one of these myself with a 80% forged lower. Just acquiring tools and materials that I'll need right now. Mainly gonna do it because it looks fun and interesting.  Then I guess I'll have to try their jig for the .308 lowers.
In the future I hope they'll do other universal jigs for 1022's, 1911's, a wide body style of 1911 (ala Paraordnance for example), maybe a shotgun jig, etc.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 9:54:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 12/20/2014 11:22:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 12:26:18 AM EDT
[#50]
I have been looking into adding Drill Bushings to this jig.

I've found a source for Tungsten Carbide Drill Bushings and I can get bushings for the trigger and hammer holes that have an I.D. Of .154
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