I have a cmmg stripped lower and want to build a reliable ar-15 for personal defense. not sure if i want piston or gas system and would love to hear what brand i should go with. I also want good accuracy. What is the best lower parts kit. Thanks

No need to go with a piston system IMO. Direct Impingement systems are plenty reliable if built right. There are also problems associated with piston systems since it is essentially a retrofit into a rifle that wasn't designed to use it.

Your accuracy is going to be determined by 1) Ammo used 2) Your Barrel 3) Trigger 4) free floating the barrel 5) bolt/chamber interface.

There are lots of great brands, CMMG is even a good brand.

I suggest you do a lot of reading and looking around and figure out what you like and what you want.

I got a CMMG kit, while my brother got a kit from palmetto state armory...  Both are good kits, however the trigger on his felt gritty and had more creep and overtravel than mine, smooth and crisp.  CMMG uses real roll pins while the Palmetto state has the split roll pins.  Both kits are very nice, but installation was a hell of alot easier with my CMMG kit, especially the bolt catch.  The PSA took a bit more force to get those roll pins in.  The Take down/pivot pins were smooth with the CMMG kit, and quite rough and hard to pull out/in with the PSA, however this may change with use.  You cant go wrong either way, but if your budget allows, id spend the extra $20 for a CMMG LPK.  Couldnt be more pleased with mine!

I'll go ahead and save somebody else the trouble of having to say it: what's your budget for the whole setup? What do you mean when you say "good" accuracy?

As far as LPKs go, if you just want a standard run of the mill LPK, a fair amount of people seem satisfied with the ones from PSA. I just installed one from Del-ton in a lower I built, and it seemed to be just fine. You can get them with upgraded triggers/FCGs too though; I'm not the one to give any direction on that subject though.

If you find an upper set up exactly how you want it, buy it complete.   If not then build it the way you want it.    If you've researched and shot different set ups and still don't know what you want but a quality bare bones upper and shot it until you decide what you want.

I have about $600-$1000 for complete ar. as my lower is already built that is not part of cost. Sub moa accuracy is preferred but dont care if that might mess up reliability. I have see some seemingly nice adams arms piston uppers with three good reviews but dont know much about them. My bro in law just got a full polymer ar and it was nice but didnt feel very durable.

PSA 16" Stainless Steel CHF Mid Lightweight 5.56mm Premium Upper - Without BCG or Charging Handle
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3 REVIEW(S) | ADD YOUR REVIEW
Regular Price: $529.95
Special Price $419.99

HMMM i was looking at this but if triggers are crap and hard to put pins in..... may not get this unless with cheap price can still  upgrade pins and trigger

That's a decent amount for an upper. AIM surplus has an Odin Works 18" SPR barrel with Gas Block for $270, that might be a good place to start. Has a 1 MOA or better guarantee.

If you want accuracy I would skip the Palmetto uppers and build something. Barrel is the most important factor.

are you talking about this barrel "ODIN Works 18" 223 WYLDE Stainless Steel DMR Barrel" ?

so start with this barrel and then start getting all the other parts separate or a parts kit?
Thaks for all the inout

Who has good prices and has integrity in sales? Brownells, midway usa....?

It's good to go. They use good barrels from FN and build them right. PSA also carries PTAC, which is a value line some feel leaves much to be desired. Don't worry about the trigger because run of the mill AR triggers are anywhere from acceptable to gritty and heavy. If the trigger pull bothers you spend the money on a quality trigger like an ALG or move on up to a nice trigger like a Geissele.





Just remember that upper has a chrome lined barrel and is not free floated, so don't expect it to be a long range precision gun. With good ammo and a good trigger it still might turn out better groups than you can shoot.
 

So, basically use that until i start to upgrade the barrel to a odin works and then upgrade trigger and then should have the sub moa accuracy? Or, is there already a psa upper that has free floated barrel and gas block with rail that someone reccomends?

- 16" HBAR CHF 4150 C. L., F Sight, M-4 FR, Flattop Complete Upper, 1x7$669.99
from J&T distributing ( http://jtdistributing.net/store/product236.html#236 ). this seems to be even better?

Check out Rock Rivers Arms. It sounds like they mat have what you are looking for in a upper.

[/img][img]http://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/5/45760.jpg[/img]


This is the look that i would like.

I just saw this and 3/4" moa to boot......I think this is what i am going to get. Has anyone had the pleasure of using this Rock River Arms Advanced Tactical Hunter upper?

AR0595X
ATH Carbine Upper Half
$830.00          

To answer the question, should you build or buy an upper, it all depends on funds, patience level, and what kind of effort you'd like to put in it. If money isn't an issue but patience and effort is, then I would just buy a complete upper from Noveske, Daniel Defense, or even Spike's Tactical. But if shelling a lump sum of money is an issue and have patience and the will to build, I would make a "franken-upper" from quality parts. That's what I'm doing right now. Just bought a CHF 16" Spike's Tactical w/ pinned gas block for $269 from AIM Surplus.

I have an Adams Arms piston upper. It is more money, but I would recommend their complete uppers. They seem to be going for $700-$1250 or so for the complete upper depending on the barrel and rail or handguards. I have a mid tactical elite model like this

Pros-Seems to be the lightest piston system out there. If you buy a complete upper, or their proprietary upper, it will be designed for the gas system, and probably less likely to have issues. Easier to clean the bolt and upper reciever. I believe that the piston system is more reliable during extended shooting between cleaning, shooting with less lube, and in the heat. I've never had any issues with mine. I haven't had it a long time, but it shot and functioned great out of the box, and I've been able to shoot some sub MOA groups with it. I believe that ammo or my lack of skill is the biggest limiting factor with it's accuracy, though I'm not exactly a sniper.  

Cons-Any piston system is going to be heavier than DI. The cam pin in the bolt moves differently in a piston gun and carves into the upper on most piston guns. Uses several proprietary parts including the upper, piston, and bolt. There seems to be quite a few complaints out there about the self installed piston kits AA sells. Who really knows how much of this is incompatibility, vs inept operators, vs a quality product? They sell a proprietary upper designed for their system if you want to build. It is a little pricey, but IMO, a likely cause of people's issues is the fact that their uppers aren't designed for the piston system, and the solution seems questionable to me.

I also have a sig piston system rifle that I've had longer and used quite a bit. I trust it's function more than any other semi auto rifle I've ever owned. It is also very accurate. However, it is heavier.

Ruger also makes production 5.56 piston uppers in your price range. I have no experience with them, but the general consensus seems to be that they are of above average quality. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I'm going to buy a SR762 which is basically the same gun in .308.

Overall, if you are going to go with a piston upper, I'd recommend buying one complete. Especially for 5.56, you are better off letting the designer of the unique system install it. Unlike DI uppers, there aren't a million youtube videos, and options for references, and most manufacturers won't sell their piston parts.

I'm not sure who the best vendors are for AA or the other uppers listed above. You can always buy directly from Adam's website, and check out the equipment exchange here. Midway has one of their 16" mid MOE handguard uppers for $679 which seems like a fair deal link

I'm seriously considering my next build project to be a 6.8 using the AA reciever, bolt and piston system. I've had enough less than steller experiences with DI to convince me to stick with pistons which I've had far fewer issues with.

There's couple of mindsets to think about if you decide build or buy.

If you build 1.) you can have exactly what you want without settling for a piece or part. 2.) you can build at your own pace. Although more expensive it hurts the wallet less

If you buy 1.) might have to settle on parts (upper, barrel etc) but many (not all but many) can be cheaper. PSA is the perfect example. I cant build many of their complete uppers for less with same quality parts they are putting in

That looks pretty good. If I bought that for myself, I would upgrade to the BCM Gunfighter Medium +$25, Use the XL handguard (longer is good), and pay extra for bead blasting +$35

I think the previous posts have done a pretty good job explaining everything. Just depends what you want. Building you own, you get to be picky and get exactly what you want. It may cost more but you can spread out the cost. Buying a pre-built upper is less hassle and CAN save you some money, but you are stuck with whatever choices are readily available.

Sub MOA accuracy depends on a lot of things, the barrel only one of them. Ammunition is a critical component, trigger control (no matter what trigger is in the gun) matters a whole lot, and the sighting setup all play a role. I've seen nice rifles not make MOA with bad ammo( bad meaning not optimized for accuracy, not in terms of safety), and I've seen chrome lined run of the mill barrels shot MOA groups with handloads tailored to them.





 

Complete New & Tuned - ASI AR15 Gas Piston Upper
Mil-Spec Forged 7075-T6 M-4 Upper Receiver, Type III Class II Hard-coat anodized finish, M4 feed ramps, (1913 Picatinny rail flat top) w/ dry lube internal finish and laser engraved T-markings
16" M4 Profile Stainless Steel Match Grade 1:8 Twist Barrel
Chambered in .223/5.56 x 45 mm NATO
Gas Piston Assembly
Adjustable Gas Settings
Proprietary Monolithic, Melonite Coated Bolt Carrier
Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI) Bolt Assembly
A-2 Flash Hider
Picatinny Flat-top Gas Block (optics ready design)
M-4 Style Thermoset molded Polymer Hand Guards with Dual Heat Shields
*** Quad free float forearm available for $299.99 installed price.
PRICE $999.99 - See more at: http://www.browning-remington-ruger.com/Armalite.php#sthash.tMPYCXZt.dpuf

I just found this one from Accuracy Systems Inc.and with sub moa guarantee and tuned piston to boot. Anyone have one of these uppers?

Thanks for all the input so far.

That looks pretty good. Seems pretty much identical to the Adams Arms basic models, except with a different barrel. A 1:8 stainless match is pretty much as good as it gets. But I'm not sure if it would be worth it to me to pay an extra $200 for the difference in barrels. Though they aren't match, the melonited barrels are very accurate, and $200 is a lot for a gnats ass difference in a fighting carbine.

I have that EXACT upper and it shoots very well. I put a Troy rail on it that I had laying around.....I have built 6 guns now with the PSA lower build kits. Three were the "less fire controls" kits and three were complete. I like PSA's stuff but their fire controls are pretty rough. No problem, I swapped them out for ALG's which for the money are tough to beat in a "standard" type trigger.

Okay, since you have a stripped lower, here are some ideas for finishing that:

This kit from Damage Industries is good quality / good value:
http://damageindustriesllc.com/product/kit-complete-lower-receiver-assembly
Basically finishes out a lower in a very basic way, but with good quality parts.

Might want to upgrade the Trigger.
Rock River Arms National Match $100:
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/RRA_Two_Stage_Match_Trigger_Kit_AR0093NMK_p/rra-ar0093nmk.htm

Geissele 2-stage $165:
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Geissele_2_Stage_Trigger_p/ga-g2s.htm

Geissele SSA-E $230
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Geissele_Super_Semi_Automatic_Enhanced_Trigger_p/ga-ssa-e.htm

There are a ton of choices out there for stocks and grips, mostly personal preference and budget.

I ended up building a frankin upper from a couple of different websites but when all was said and done to get what i want in pieces took over $250+ more (than a prebuilt upper) for the parts but with no warrenty and even no knowledge of how to put together and the local shop certified AR gunsmith charges $75 per hour and sai it would take an hour to build. So, I went with a Daniel Defense DDM4 V9 NEW for 2014 with a lifetime warrenty and was less that $1000 From Midwayusa.com. I got 1000 rounds of federal ammo for $350 from bulkammo.com and a lower moe lower parts kit and a spare lower parts kit from blackhawk for $29 on sale from http://palmettostatearmory.com. I will post pics as soon as lower and upper are done? :)

Built my upper with the AA piston and the Rainier Select 18" barrel.  Shoots .75 MOA with my hand loads and is reliable as the day is long.  As for pistons being heavier, it is SLIGHT.  Think about it... what is really different?  A railed gas block is a railed gas block, and the oprod is only slightly heavier than a gas tube.  I personally went piston because I shoot a lot but don't like to clean a lot, and don't care to have oil spatter all over the place.  I run grease in my bcg since I don't have to worry about cooking it off, and change it maybe twice a year because nothing in my lower gets hot.

Takes most people about 15 minutes to build an upper with the proper tools. No gunsmithing required.

It takes me longer than that to find the proper tools, and clean up a usable work area in the garage.

Franken-uppers are fun and easy to build. They give you a chance to know more about your rifle and how it functions.