Originally Posted By wes1: Originally Posted By fordfreek: Originally Posted By wes1: Originally Posted By fordfreek: Hello all, great thread! I was wondering how much do you guys think it would cost to purchase an Atilla-200 new? Is it legal to buy/sell one from/to an individual who has one? It's my understanding the ATILLAs are VERY rare in the civi market,it would command a premium price.(Well over $2,000) I would verify it's not stolen millitary equipment. How would I verify it's not stolen? Call NVEC ETA: Did they ever sell them to the public?IR lasers have never been for sale to public

How is it they they have never been sold to the public but there are a bunch on here(other brands of IR lasers)?? i don't really know that much about them, but if I could get one cheap should I? I mean if the Atilla is so rare then, it would be a good possibility it cam from somewhere other than a civilian...illegaly?

It is illegal for the manufactors to sell directly to civillians, but the posession of an IR laser is legal.So many units come from LE depts or millitary surplus(not anymore).
Many of the IR lasers you see for sale are the surplus units or units that have been converted to IR.BTW, there a few small shops building IR laser "kits"which are missing a part(tailcap switch) so it's not considered a complete IR laser, which gives us a loophole to purchase them.

Another option is ordering out of Europe or Hong Kong.

so I should just forget about the ATILLA? I figured someone would want one, I can't afford all the night vision that would be required to use it anyway  thanks for the info Wes1

Eggcellent thread.

Originally Posted By wes1: It is illegal for the manufactors to sell directly to civillians, but the posession of an IR laser is legal.So many units come from LE depts or millitary surplus(not anymore). Many of the IR lasers you see for sale are the surplus units or units that have been converted to IR.BTW, there a few small shops building IR laser "kits"which are missing a part(tailcap switch) so it's not considered a complete IR laser, which gives us a loophole to purchase them. Another option is ordering out of Europe or Hong Kong.

My understanding is that the Issue with IR lasers is that the FDA is the problem. They want a way for the user to know when the unit is activated (like a visible LED), and most tactical lasers don't have a way to do this without compromising the users position. This is why the Corsak lasers were available for sale and had a visible LED on them.

As for the conversions and kits, I just had a reputable vendor convert an OTAL for me. Hope to take it to a buddy's to try out this weekend-my goggles walked out of my apartment last year so I'm shopping for a -14.

Dave

those little red "on" lights are easily fixed with a piece of 100 MPH tape.

Originally Posted By Victor: Anyways, you are correct, the FDA is the issue and the issue is an IR laser is invisible and if a IR laser would enter someone's eye, the person has no blink reflex like they would with a visible laser, thus ALL IR lasers are restricted from the FDA even though some are titled "eye safe".  They are NOT illegal to own, just illegal for a manufacture to sell new to civilians.  Hope this helps. Vic

So could I have a LEO buddy buy me one?  Would that be legal?

Most companies dont sell to the individual officer, but to the department.

Originally Posted By DevL: Most companies dont sell to the individual officer, but to the department.

DevL,  do you know what companies sell to the individual officer?

I bought my PEQ-2A directly from insight when I was doing a tour in Iraq; The cost was $986.00 GSA now has them at $1,032.00). A buddy of mine just purchased one directly from insight via ADS and he does some PSA work overseas as a contractor. There are ways to get them legally, but the question is - do you really need it?

Originally Posted By mwj2277: I bought my PEQ-2A directly from insight when I was doing a tour in Iraq; The cost was $986.00 GSA now has them at $1,032.00). A buddy of mine just purchased one directly from insight via ADS and he does some PSA work overseas as a contractor. There are ways to get them legally, but the question is - do you really need it?

Im mil, so can I just email them and order one then?

I would assume Insight would sale to you provided you were deployed as I was, however, if you are not then they could only sale directly to your unit on unit letterhead for verification. Contractors get them because of the business conducted - The Blackwater and D.A.R.C. guys purchase theirs through their business and sale them online when they return (good markup). I plan to sale mine when I retire in a year being as there is no reason for me to hold on to it (but I would only sale it to a military or a LE guy that could truely put it to use).

tag for active topics.

CONFIRMATION:
For my boys in Blue

Insights Technology will sell to the individual LEO. I took approxiametly 2 months to receive my PEQ2. Here are a few pics for proof. Sorry guys i'm not a photographer sorry.

Inisights Technology AN/PEQ 2A
Price LEO: $887.03         Shipped

After a wait for almost 2 months I finally got the PEQ2. I had the paperwork all sent 2 months ago. I wanted to do a write up but I felt I did not want to give false hope if I could not purchase the PEQ2. I kept on reading on this Topic that  LEO's couldn't get it. I decided some people might not know the truth and are just feeding off of what somebody could not confirm or misinformation that was fed from the dealers selling the PEQ2's. I decided to check for myself by emailing a few companies. I received one no and one yes but we don't sell to individual LEO's. I figured then the dealers might be wrong or just don't sell straight out to LEO's. I figured i'll just cut the crap and head straight to the source. Insights Technology itself. I decided to go to their home web page. I looked up the LEO section and emailed.


This is the email. NOTE I DELETED MY NAME AND REPLACED WITH PUNISHER54


PUNISHER54

Linda is on a day off
She will be back in on Monday and she will be able to help you

Pat



-----Original Message-----
From: PUNISHER54
To: Poirier, Patrick
Sent: Fri Oct 05 16:07:13 2007
Subject: RE: LEO PD

Around what time is the best time to get a hold of linda harms. I attempted to call her but I received no answer.

"Poirier, Patrick" <[email protected]> wrote:

       Officer P
       
       You can FAX everything to the 603-668-1084 FAX number, which you will need your request to purchase on your departmental letter head with a shipping address to the department, the IR agreement form and once that has been sent in you can call Linda Harms at 603-551-6033 and give her a credit card number directly. That way your number isn’t sitting on any paperwork and it is put right into the system to start the order. Linda is the person that enters all of the orders to production; she will also be able to give an approximate delivery date.
       
       Pat
       
       Pat Poirier
       Law Enforcement Product Specialist
       INSIGHT TECH.
       23 Industrial Dr.
       Londonderry, NH 03053
       [email protected]
       www.insighttechnology.com
       603-551-6035 - Work
       603-668-1084 - Fax
       
       ________________________________

               From: PUNISHER54        Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:53 PM
       To: Poirier, Patrick
       Subject: RE: LEO El Paso PD
       
       What form of payment to you accept. Also do I use the fax number below to send the paper work. Thanks again patrick.
     
       "Poirier, Patrick" <[email protected]> wrote:

               Officer P,
               
               The price of the AN/PEQ-2A is $887.03 each which includes shipping. I have attached the IR agreement for you to fill out and your request will need to be on your departmental letterhead.
               
               Let me know when you are ready to order the AN/PEQ-2A.
               
               Pat
               
               Pat Poirier
               Law Enforcement Product Specialist
               INSIGHT TECH.
               23 Industrial Dr.
               Londonderry, NH 03053
               [email protected]
               www.insighttechnology.com
               603-551-6035 - Work
               603-668-1084 - Fax
               
               ________________________________

                               From: PUNISHER54]
               Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:40 PM
               To: Poirier, Patrick
               Subject: RE: LEO PD
               
               Thank you Patrick for the quick reply. I don't think I should have a problem doing that. Where can I find this IR agreement form and how much is it for each AN/PEQ-2A. Thanks again Patrick
             
               "Poirier, Patrick" <[email protected]> wrote:
               Officer P
               
               The purchase of the AN/PEQ-2A would have to be shipped to your police department, your request to purchase would have to be on departmental letterhead and you would have to do the IR agreement form before the order can be processed. You can purchase the AN/PEQ-2A direct or through one of our dealers.
               Let me know if I can be or any other assistance.
               
               Pat
               
               Pat Poirier
               Law Enforcement Product Specialist
               INSIGHT TECH.
               23 Industrial Dr.
               Londonderry, NH 03053
               [email protected]
               www.insighttechnology.com
               603-551-6035 - Work
               603-668-1084 - Fax
               
               ________________________________

                               From: PUNISHER54]
               Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:45 PM
               To: Poirier, Patrick
               Subject: LEO PD
               
               I'm a Officer with Police Department in Texas. I was wondering if you sell the PEQ2 to Officers or do I have to buy it from a retailer. Can you help me as to how one can be acquired. This is my personal email and is the quicker way to reach me. Thank you.
               
PUNISHER54


ENJOY. I'm open to questions guys so shoot away.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0041.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0041.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0042.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0043.jpg
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http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0046.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0047.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0048.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0049.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/deltasniper04/DCFC0050.jpg

I apologize again for the images. I have to go to work and its night. I'll take some better pics in the morning for better clarity.

May I humbly request you post this in the Night vision section?

So does that mean when I see a new PEQ-2A for sale in the EE for $2000 it was bought  for $1000 by MIL or LEO?

Originally Posted By jdr724: So does that mean when I see a new PEQ-2A for sale in the EE for $2000 it was bought  for $1000 by MIL or LEO?

More like $2500 on EE

Originally Posted By PUNISHER54: CONFIRMATION: For my boys in Blue Insights Technology will sell to the individual LEO. I took approxiametly 2 months to receive my PEQ2. Here are a few pics for proof. Sorry guys i'm not a photographer sorry. <snipped>

Do you know if they would do a personal sale to active duty mil?

FYI, I contacted Insight Tech on dept email.  The contact info listed above bounced - no such address.  I contacted through the email listed for LE, and got a "we do not sell to individual LEO.  Please have your dept contact our distributor..."

Ah well...

Wow, I really learned alot in this thread! Really bites for those in the .mil that wnat to pay for a good piece of kit, but can't get the suppliers to sell to them. Or Ihave to pay 2.5k or more for a used piece of equipment. So now I have to ask, anyone know a reputable dealer/repair shop that can convert an OTAL to IR?

I wish the Army issued them to the individual so that when you get PCS orders you would take it with you to your new location.  I am in Korea now and we have almost no equipment back here in Daegu.  I know the guys up near the DMZ have what they need but in the day of total warfare letting the Soldiers keep the items they need would make us more ready.   It would be just as easy to inventory things like lites and lasers and no one is going to get in too much trouble with them unless they start shining the lasers in others eyes.  

I would think having the Soldiers turn them into the arms room would work but having been to war and having the items I needed and now being prepared to fight if I have to without it seems rather ironic.

All the guys in Iraq loved any IR device they could get their hands on and for good reason the Army still owns the night.

God bless,
David
Korea

Originally Posted By ARMY30YEARSPLUS: I wish the Army issued them to the individual so that when you get PCS orders you would take it with you to your new location.  I am in Korea now and we have almost no equipment back here in Daegu.  I know the guys up near the DMZ have what they need but in the day of total warfare letting the Soldiers keep the items they need would make us more ready.   It would be just as easy to inventory things like lites and lasers and no one is going to get in too much trouble with them unless they start shining the lasers in others eyes.   I would think having the Soldiers turn them into the arms room would work but having been to war and having the items I needed and now being prepared to fight if I have to without it seems rather ironic. All the guys in Iraq loved any IR device they could get their hands on and for good reason the Army still owns the night. God bless, David Korea

I agree but in reality once people realized how much they could sell them for to civvies you'd be seeing them all over ebay...

Originally Posted By Belmont31R: I agree but in reality once people realized how much they could sell them for to civvies you'd be seeing them all over ebay...

......and the market would self-correct!

You have got that right. Back in the 80's I was in Korea for at least 5 months before issued a weapon. And that was only when after our third alert, I asked the 1st sgt if I was suppose to check into the mess for a fork and knife as my weapons.

StagPower

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By Belmont31R: I agree but in reality once people realized how much they could sell them for to civvies you'd be seeing them all over ebay... ......and the market would self-correct!

No because jackasses would pay it. Just like $600 aimpoints, $4.30cent gas, and $3 bottles of water.

Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By SD307: May I humbly request you post this in the Night vision section? This post is in the right location. Good info as Insight has changed their policies very recently. NVEC/DRS has also opened some of their lasers to the LE community as well. The IR form (if it's the same form as before)  talks about how to dispose of the unit as well. They cannot be sold back to the general public.

So still no individual mil sales?  Who would be the person to talk to regarding this, if I supply a memo signed by either my CO or battalion CO to go along with the IR agreement, I should still be good, correct?  It would be great if every active duty unit were given an initial issue of PEQ's for their rifles, but so far the only NV anything I have in my arms room is PVS-7A's that I cannot even mount to an ACH mount.  There are deploying Joes in need, time for the industry to step up.

Anyone have any info on Lazermax's IR laser?

Originally Posted By nf9648: Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By SD307: May I humbly request you post this in the Night vision section? This post is in the right location. Good info as Insight has changed their policies very recently. NVEC/DRS has also opened some of their lasers to the LE community as well. The IR form (if it's the same form as before)  talks about how to dispose of the unit as well. They cannot be sold back to the general public. So still no individual mil sales?  Who would be the person to talk to regarding this, if I supply a memo signed by either my CO or battalion CO to go along with the IR agreement, I should still be good, correct?  It would be great if every active duty unit were given an initial issue of PEQ's for their rifles, but so far the only NV anything I have in my arms room is PVS-7A's that I cannot even mount to an ACH mount.  There are deploying Joes in need, time for the industry to step up.

I just shot some emails to Insight Technologies from my .mil address. Here's hoping!

Originally Posted By wicked_chicken: Originally Posted By nf9648: Originally Posted By Victor: Originally Posted By SD307: May I humbly request you post this in the Night vision section? This post is in the right location. Good info as Insight has changed their policies very recently. NVEC/DRS has also opened some of their lasers to the LE community as well. The IR form (if it's the same form as before)  talks about how to dispose of the unit as well. They cannot be sold back to the general public. So still no individual mil sales?  Who would be the person to talk to regarding this, if I supply a memo signed by either my CO or battalion CO to go along with the IR agreement, I should still be good, correct?  It would be great if every active duty unit were given an initial issue of PEQ's for their rifles, but so far the only NV anything I have in my arms room is PVS-7A's that I cannot even mount to an ACH mount.  There are deploying Joes in need, time for the industry to step up. I just shot some emails to Insight Technologies from my .mil address. Here's hoping!

Any update?

I didn't even get a responce. I'm taking that as a no. On a side note,  B&H doesn't list Newcom's LAM 2 I/R as restricted. Hmmm....

Originally Posted By C4iGrant: Watcher, I might has some options for you in the future. I am sure you have seen the IWAL 2 by now (which is an IR laser). We (Hayes Research and I) are looking at doing a dual model that will have a visible laser on one side and an IR on the other. Stay tuned.....

I'm curious what became of this.  Hayes Research doesn't seem to be around any more, which leaves out future availability the IWAL2.  A combo unit like it would be great for civvies.

Originally Posted By Victor: Watcher, one of Kev's buds has one of the best sites for Lasers and such. This was listed WAY back on this thread. (Arghhhh ONLY wish we could have our own dedicated NV forum soon!) www.nightoperations.com/lasers.htm Has MUCH of the info that can get you started in the right direction.

I see this link is now dead.  Does anyone know if it is gone altogether or was there a change in URL?

I shot the guy I bought my PEQ from in the LEO department and I haven't gotten a reply. I was trying to get a price for the PEQ 15. Anyone know the price by the way?

One thing I noticed is that insights has two websites

www.insighttechgear.com/ I sent an email to this one today.


www.insighttechnology.com/ I sent an email to this one and no reply.

My agency is getting new lights and lasers so I will be selling my personal DBAL A2 shortly.

There's a VITAL-2 In the EE!

I've wondered this myself

Is it possible or can someone tell me, where I can find the little yellow cover for my PAC4C. Any help would be great. And by the way Insight won't even talk to me, and told me that I should not have it.


Jeff

PM sent.

The Good old Corsak 16i. What a sweet little laser . Built like a brick house. I use to have an AR15 with one that just went and went withot anyproblems whatso ever. I had mine setup and zeroed perfectly at 100 meters using a 14.5" 1/7 twist 5.56 using Lake City SS109 62 grain. That little sucker would make sweet 2 inch groups at 100 meters. Took a while to finally get it dialed in properly. I used a gun vise to help with thepain in the butt site in process.

I wish they still sold them. Soviet Bazzar was awesome. It was a sad day when they went to the way side.

If anyone is looking for a compatable unit go to nightvisionuk.com

My MARS-IR unit arrived today. Haven't zeroed it yet but I did take it out for some nighttime fun.

The beam is nicely collimated. It's not nearly as powerful as some of the US IR laser products but it's nice for aiming. The zero-to-red-dot feature is fantastic for those who have a logistical problem finding ranges that will let them shoot at night. The pressure switch is very solid. It doesn't look like a Gorilla could rip it off.

It's pricey but when you factor in the weight savings of having a red dot and IR laser in one package (and thus no need for a metal quad rail) it's a much lighter, more balanced package than an independent laser.

tag