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Posted: 12/9/2008 8:00:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Molon,
I would like to thank you for your continued work on this project. Your time and effort show. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2008 8:23:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Finally someone else got some of the new Winchester TAP. I first asked about that a month or so ago when I bought a case from ATG and it used Winchester (the rounds look the exact same as pictured above).
I think I bought one of the last cases from the batch they had before they stopped listing it at their site for the last 3-4 weeks, so I think the change was made before they switched 'suppliers'. The shipping label was cut from the case box, but the lot# on each individual box wasn't removed. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2008 11:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushMeister]
[#3]
Ammo is back in stock at ATG ($20.95 / 20 rounds) for those interested.
link ***ETA: That was quick. It's out of stock again. |
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Posted: 12/10/2008 1:27:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By jvmcd:
Finally someone else got some of the new Winchester TAP. I first asked about that a month or so ago when I bought a case from ATG and it used Winchester (the rounds look the exact same as pictured above). I think I bought one of the last cases from the batch they had before they stopped listing it at their site for the last 3-4 weeks, so I think the change was made before they switched 'suppliers'. The shipping label was cut from the case box, but the lot# on each individual box wasn't removed. I just received a shipment of 5.56 TAP today from ATG. Brass is all stamped "Hornady 5.56 NATO" |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2008 3:31:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Just received my case of TAP, and and without checking it all, mine is the Hornady 556 NATO brass, non polished. And yes, they cut all the numbers also.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2008 4:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushMeister]
[#6]
So, Rock7 and Mountain6288, I assume that the bullets for your "Hornady" brass TAP all have the very small hollow point hole. It seems strange to have a few isolated lots out there with different brass ("WCC 07") *and* different bullets (much larger hollow point hole).
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Posted: 12/10/2008 6:50:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rock7]
[#7]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
So, Rock7 and Mountain6288, I assume that the bullets for your "Hornady" brass TAP all have the very small hollow point hole. It seems strange to have a few isolated lots out there with different brass ("WCC 07") *and* different bullets (much larger hollow point hole). Yes, Hornady brass with hollow point. I don't have any of the WCC version so I'm not able to compare the size of the hollow point. Are there pics anywhere of the WCC opening? ETA: Found the pic. Mine have the smaller opening. I'm almost wondering if those WCC's are not really 5.56 TAP T2's 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2008 7:17:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
So, Rock7 and Mountain6288, I assume that the bullets for your "Hornady" brass TAP all have the very small hollow point hole. It seems strange to have a few isolated lots out there with different brass ("WCC 07") *and* different bullets (much larger hollow point hole). Yes, Hornady brass with hollow point. I don't have any of the WCC version so I'm not able to compare the size of the hollow point. Are there pics anywhere of the WCC opening? ETA: Found the pic. Mine have the smaller opening. I'm almost wondering if those WCC's are not really 5.56 TAP T2's I certainly hope that they are, because I paid full price for them from ATG, and they came in new-looking 5.56 TAP Hornady boxes. Maybe I'll contact Hornady and ask them if they ever made such rounds. But since I didn't order directly from them, they might be reluctant to discuss it. |
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Posted: 12/10/2008 7:30:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
So, Rock7 and Mountain6288, I assume that the bullets for your "Hornady" brass TAP all have the very small hollow point hole. It seems strange to have a few isolated lots out there with different brass ("WCC 07") *and* different bullets (much larger hollow point hole). Yes, Hornady brass with hollow point. I don't have any of the WCC version so I'm not able to compare the size of the hollow point. Are there pics anywhere of the WCC opening? ETA: Found the pic. Mine have the smaller opening. I'm almost wondering if those WCC's are not really 5.56 TAP T2's I certainly hope that they are, because I paid full price for them from ATG, and they came in new-looking 5.56 TAP Hornady boxes. Maybe I'll contact Hornady and ask them if they ever made such rounds. But since I didn't order directly from them, they might be reluctant to discuss it. Since the boxes aren't sealed it would be easy enough for someone to switch the rounds out. Just sayin'. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2008 8:22:28 PM EDT
[#10]
I just checked some of my Winchester cased TAP and it looks like I do have the smaller hollow point (wish I had a micrometer to actually measure). Bullet seating looks to be essentially the same as the pictures of the earlier frontier/hornady rounds.
The thing that also seems kind of strange is that even though there is a little bit of primer sealant on the primers and a bit smeared on case, there really isn't any at all in the groove around the primer. I wonder if they bought some surplus Q3131, pulled the bullet and primer and reloaded with their own? I wanted to call Hornady also, but I figured as soon as they asked for a case # they would know it was ATG and just say goodbye. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2008 4:13:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mountain6288]
[#11]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Just compared to Molons pics, and mine have the small hollowpoint.
So, Rock7 and Mountain6288, I assume that the bullets for your "Hornady" brass TAP all have the very small hollow point hole. It seems strange to have a few isolated lots out there with different brass ("WCC 07") *and* different bullets (much larger hollow point hole). |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2008 6:44:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Got mine from ATG about a month ago too. WCC and small hole. Mine actually has the lot number intact on the box.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2008 11:10:51 PM EDT
[#13]
The most recent TAP I received from ATG on Monday (that I ordered in November) was Hornady 5.56 brass, unpolished, with the smaller open tip.
This WCC case/different bullet development is disturbing. If anyone has any more information about what the heck is going on, please post. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2008 7:55:32 PM EDT
[#14]
About a week ago, I received some more 5.56 TAP from ATG (small order). Like last time, the rounds had the WCC 07 brass and the bullet with the larger hollow point hole. Once again, the lot #s were cut off of the 20 rd boxes.
I'd really like to know if this stuff is actually 5.56 TAP, and I don't feel comfortable ordering more until I do. I just noticed another difference between the Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP and this version: the primers are different also. The WCC TAP primers have raised dimples at the center, while the Hornady brass TAP is absolutely flat in the center. Could Hornady have made recent TAP ammunition lots using different brass, bullets AND primers? That would seem strange. Molon, have you managed to get your hands on any WCC 07 TAP? I think it would be better if you would evaluate these rounds, rather than me pulling a few apart with pliers. I'll send you 10 rounds to check out, if you don't have any. Lastly, the WCC 07 TAP rounds seem rougher, with some inconsistent bullet seating, as well as some bullet anomalies (see below). I'd say that about 10% of the bullets have rough spots. 
It might be time to contact John at ATG, and Kathy at Hornady. |
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Posted: 12/27/2008 9:30:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rock7]
[#15]
I think there's some "funny-business" going on here.
If I ever receive WCC cased TAP it's going back. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/28/2008 6:50:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: vicious_cb]
[#16]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
About a week ago, I received some more 5.56 TAP from ATG (small order). Like last time, the rounds had the WCC 07 brass and the bullet with the larger hollow point hole. Once again, the lot #s were cut off of the 20 rd boxes. I'd really like to know if this stuff is actually 5.56 TAP, and I don't feel comfortable ordering more until I do. I just noticed another difference between the Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP and this version: the primers are different also. The WCC TAP primers have raised dimples at the center, while the Hornady brass TAP is absolutely flat in the center. Could Hornady have made recent TAP ammunition lots using different brass, bullets AND primers? That would seem strange. Molon, have you managed to get your hands on any WCC 07 TAP? I think it would be better if you would evaluate these rounds, rather than me pulling a few apart with pliers. I'll send you 10 rounds to check out, if you don't have any. Lastly, the WCC 07 TAP rounds seem rougher, with some inconsistent bullet seating, as well as some bullet anomalies (see below). I'd say that about 10% of the bullets have rough spots. http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/DSC00030-1.jpg It might be time to contact John at ATG, and Kathy at Hornady. I believe they remove the lot number to protect whoever is buying ammo for them from getting a lifetime ban from buying from hornady. 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2009 12:57:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
About a week ago, I received some more 5.56 TAP from ATG (small order). Like last time, the rounds had the WCC 07 brass and the bullet with the larger hollow point hole. Once again, the lot #s were cut off of the 20 rd boxes. I'd really like to know if this stuff is actually 5.56 TAP, and I don't feel comfortable ordering more until I do. I just noticed another difference between the Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP and this version: the primers are different also. The WCC TAP primers have raised dimples at the center, while the Hornady brass TAP is absolutely flat in the center. Could Hornady have made recent TAP ammunition lots using different brass, bullets AND primers? That would seem strange. Molon, have you managed to get your hands on any WCC 07 TAP? I think it would be better if you would evaluate these rounds, rather than me pulling a few apart with pliers. I'll send you 10 rounds to check out, if you don't have any. Lastly, the WCC 07 TAP rounds seem rougher, with some inconsistent bullet seating, as well as some bullet anomalies (see below). I'd say that about 10% of the bullets have rough spots. http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/DSC00030-1.jpg It might be time to contact John at ATG, and Kathy at Hornady. I believe they remove the lot number to protect whoever is buying ammo for them from getting a lifetime ban from buying from Hornady. 
Yes, that seems to be the case. But unfortunately, it also means that if there is something wrong with the 5.56 TAP rounds in these boxes (malfunctioning ammo or a question as to the actual type of ammunition in the boxes) there is no lot # available to reference in communications with ATG or Hornady. I e-mailed John at ATG regarding these WCC 07 rounds. I'll update when I hear from him. Kathy at Hornady would be next. I'll just try to find out if they have produced rounds such as the WCC 07 lots. Molon disassembling some of these rounds and comparing them to the "Hornady 5.56 NATO" rounds is another option. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2009 3:20:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Anyone have any new info on the Winchester brass/different HP developments?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2009 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#19]
I found these pics online looking for ammo......look at the stampings on the rounds.
http://sgcusa.com/product_info.php?products_id=1904 |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2009 12:29:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scotter260]
[#20]
Guys,
I ordered 3 cases a few weeks ago and they were delivered directly to my department from Hornady last week Wed. (24th). Ammo received was lot 3081453 and it has been checked and is WCC cased and has the larger open-tip. When I initially contacted Kathy to check in-stock/next run info, she indicated that they were just going to start a HUGE run. I'm only speculating, and will send an email to Kathy to find out the real reason, but perhaps the order was so large they had to outsource components. Many of you may not know me but there are a couple who can vouch for me that I get my stuff directly from Hornady so I believe that your concerns of this being counterfeit can be put to bed. I'm not saying that this "new formula" is up to Hornady's usual standards, hopefully Molon can shed light on that through his wonderfully thorough and presented testing methods, but you do have Hornady-produced product in your hands. I'll email Kathy tonight and hopefully be able to provide a response Monday night. Regards, Scott |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2009 12:45:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I got a 600 rnd order in from ATG about 2 weeks ago. All the lot numbers were cut off. When I started putting them on stripper clips, they were the WCC 07 brass. Somehere in between, they switched over to Hornady brass. The boxes definately didn't look like they had been opened, so I'm not worrying about it in the least.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2009 1:16:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushMeister]
[#22]
Thanks to Scotter and DarinFred for their info. It's heartening to hear that people are receiving the WCC 07 ammo straight from Hornady.
I agree that the boxes of WCC 07 ammo I opened seemed not to have been opened previously. I wasn't actually suspecting malfeasance on ATG's part, I was just wondering if their had been some mix-up, or if someone had tried to take advantage of ATG. Given the fact that the supplier to ATG is LEO or LEO-related, that's probably not likely. I'm still surprised to see that Hornady swapped out all 3 major components visible from the outside on a premium line of ammunition. And I'm still not happy about the rough spots on many of the WCC 07-encased bullets, some of which are sharp (and near the thickest portion of the bullet), which would make me reluctant to send them down a barrel at 2800 FPS. In addition, the larger hole on the hollow point still raises the possibility of a different bullet. Just because the rounds came from Hornady, that doesn't mean that these rounds include the same T2 bullet found in earlier rounds. If Hornady was sent scrambling for components, and had to use WCC brass and different primers, the bullet might have been swapped out, too. Only Hornady (and, potentially, Molon!) know the answer. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2009 2:02:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Thanks to Scotter and DarinFred for their info. It's heartening to hear that people are receiving the WCC 07 ammo straight from Hornady. I agree that the boxes of WCC 07 ammo I opened seemed not to have been opened previously. I wasn't actually suspecting malfeasance on ATG's part, I was just wondering if their had been some mix-up, or if someone had tried to take advantage of ATG. Given the fact that the supplier to ATG is LEO or LEO-related, that's probably not likely. I'm still surprised to see that Hornady swapped out all 3 major components visible from the outside on a premium line of ammunition. And I'm still not happy about the rough spots on many of the WCC 07-encased bullets, some of which are sharp (and near the thickest portion of the bullet), which would make me reluctant to send them down a barrel at 2800 FPS. In addition, the larger hole on the hollow point still raises the possibility of a different bullet. Just because the rounds came from Hornady, that doesn't mean that these rounds include the same T2 bullet found in earlier rounds. If Hornady was sent scrambling for components, and had to use WCC brass and different primers, the bullet might have been swapped out, too. Only Hornady (and, potentially, Molon!) know the answer. I really don't believe Hornady would label the packing list and cases (which is the case with the ammo that I received) with "75 GR BTHP WC T2" unless it truely was T2. Anything is possible of course but it just doesn't seem their speed. Hopefully we'll know Monday. Scott |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2009 8:25:52 PM EDT
[#24]
No email waiting for me from Kathy today gents.
I asked her about 5 or 6 questions and she may not have had the answers at hand. Hopefully tomorrow, Scott |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2009 8:39:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
No email waiting for me from Kathy today gents. I asked her about 5 or 6 questions and she may not have had the answers at hand. Hopefully tomorrow, Scott Thanks to Scotter for looking into this with Kathy. Thanks to Survivorman for finding that other link, which clearly shows WCC 07 brass on 5.56 TAP offered for sale on the Scottsdale Gun Club website. Due to the latter, and to people receiving rounds straight from Hornady, it appears that the WCC 07 rounds are in fact Hornady TAP 5.56. I'm still a bit perplexed by the different bullet, though. Can the BC be the same on two hollow point bullets when one has an opening about twice as large as the other? Thanks to everyone who looked into this. I'd still like to see Molon test these WCC 07 rounds in the spring. |
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Posted: 1/5/2009 8:52:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
No email waiting for me from Kathy today gents. I asked her about 5 or 6 questions and she may not have had the answers at hand. Hopefully tomorrow, Scott Thanks to Scotter for looking into this with Kathy. Thanks to Survivorman for finding that other link, which clearly shows WCC 07 brass on 5.56 TAP offered for sale on the Scottsdale Gun Club website. Due to the latter, and to people receiving rounds straight from Hornady, it appears that the WCC 07 rounds are in fact Hornady TAP 5.56. I'm still a bit perplexed by the different bullet, though. Can the BC be the same on two hollow point bullets when one has an opening about twice as large as the other? Thanks to everyone who looked into this. I'd still like to see Molon test these WCC 07 rounds in the spring. "The List" just got a little longer. I'd like to add a special thanks to Scotter260 for his efforts in this matter also.
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Posted: 1/8/2009 1:26:31 AM EDT
[#27]
tag
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Posted: 1/8/2009 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Guys,
I still haven't heard back from Kathy and I sent the email last Thurs. or Fri. Usually she replies the next business day but I asked her a good number of questions. I sent her an email last night just to ask if she received the first email and no answer today so I'm not sure what's up. Maybe she took time off due to the holidays. I will post as soon as I get a reply, Scott |
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Posted: 1/9/2009 4:45:52 AM EDT
[#29]
What the heck, ordered 200 of the 5.56 TAP from ATG.
If it turns out to be bad, it's going back. I really hope it's the real deal though, I've been wanting to shoot some of this stuff for years, since I first read this review. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2009 7:10:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Every time I've dealt with Kathy I've gotten the impression she's a very busy person.
I think if people keep pestering Hornady LEO sales with questions like "Why is my ammo not shiny and bright?" OR "Why is the fit and finish on my ammo not as pretty as the stuff I bought last time from an unauthorized souce?" - then I think you'll see the day that individual officer sales will be suspended and will have to go through departmental orders or at least letterheads. It's bad enough that they have to worry about unauthorized users shooting 8126N in a 223 chanber, now they're going to have a bunch of people calling about possibly fraudulently manufactured ammo. Hasn't Hornady already taken legal action against ATG once re: unauth. sales? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2009 7:17:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Every time I've dealt with Kathy I've gotten the impression she's a very busy person. I think if people keep pestering Hornady LEO sales with questions like "Why is my ammo not shiny and bright?" OR "Why is the fit and finish on my ammo not as pretty as the stuff I bought last time from an unauthorized souce?" - then I think you'll see the day that individual officer sales will be suspended and will have to go through departmental orders or at least letterheads. It's bad enough that they have to worry about unauthorized users shooting 8126N in a 223 chanber, now they're going to have a bunch of people calling about possibly fraudulently manufactured ammo. Hasn't Hornady already taken legal action against ATG once re: unauth. sales? "Is this even the same bullet?" is NOT the same as a "is it shiny?" question. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2009 7:37:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Every time I've dealt with Kathy I've gotten the impression she's a very busy person. I think if people keep pestering Hornady LEO sales with questions like "Why is my ammo not shiny and bright?" OR "Why is the fit and finish on my ammo not as pretty as the stuff I bought last time from an unauthorized souce?" - then I think you'll see the day that individual officer sales will be suspended and will have to go through departmental orders or at least letterheads. It's bad enough that they have to worry about unauthorized users shooting 8126N in a 223 chanber, now they're going to have a bunch of people calling about possibly fraudulently manufactured ammo. Hasn't Hornady already taken legal action against ATG once re: unauth. sales? Legal action? No. They did make a decision to stop selling to the officer who was supplying the inital lots of 5.56 TAP when they ordered up a box and saw who ordered that lot # from them. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2009 1:24:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushMeister]
[#33]
When you're buying 5.56 ammo that costs about $1.10 per round (including shipping), and it shows up with different brass, bullets (some of which are sub-standard) and primers than the initial, high-quality ammo that Hornady shipped, you have the right to ask questions. The point is to have one or two people ask the questions, and then have the info posted on these arfcom threads, as has been done.
I e-mailed ATG and got this response, which I posted on the "T2 is available" thread: "I spoke with John [ATG] today, he told me that all of it did come from Hornady. Hornady does purchase Winchester Brass. You also can tell they are original loads from them by the crimped primer pockets." This, in addition to arfcom members saying they got the same WCC 07 ammo straight from Hornady (in some cases mixed in with the "Hornady 5.56 NATO" rounds), puts to rest the question as to whether these rounds are "5.56 TAP", produced by Hornady. The only question now is whether the bullet is the same T2 bullet. Either Hornady changed the T2 bullet to make the hollow point hole noticeably larger, or they substituted a slightly different bullet. If someone with a bullet puller and a scale capable of micro measurements wants to pull the bullets (those placed in "Hornady" brass versus "WCC 07" brass) and compare them, we'll know more. Or Kathy from Hornady could return someone's e-mail. I'm still hesitant to order more, since the WCC 07 bullets I got have some sharp, raised imperfections near the thickest portion of the bullet that I'm not eager to send down my barrel. Yes, this only involves 2-3% of the rounds, and I don't know if copper edges will scratch chrome steel (they probably won't) , but when you're paying these prices, you want the ammo to be blemish-free. That said, I'll probably order more. This ammo is still top dog as far as terminal ballistics for home defense is concerned, and who knows what the incoming anti-gun circus in Washington will come up with. |
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Posted: 1/12/2009 4:17:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Someone needs to get Molon some of this ammo so we can get some ultra technical answers to our inquiries ... My order hasn't shipped yet :\
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2009 12:48:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Originally Posted By Duggan:
Someone needs to get Molon some of this ammo so we can get some ultra technical answers to our inquiries ... My order hasn't shipped yet :\ Wideners took roughly a month to ship mine. ATG is a bit faster though. |
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Posted: 1/12/2009 6:06:25 PM EDT
[#36]
I just bought some more TAP 75GR 5.56 from ATG today... I'll be interested to see how it compares to the previous posts. Certainly those 'flaws' on the bullet casing don't look good.
Gotta wonder how those lumps affect the dynamics of the bullet in flight? Aerodynamics is one thing, but is that area 'heavier' than the side 180 degrees away? I'd personally call it a reject. |
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Posted: 1/12/2009 11:57:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Well,
Still no word. I may have been a putz before but now I truly feel like one. I don't know what to tell you guys other than I'll post info when I get it. Hoping to have something for y'all soon, Scott |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 8:24:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Personally I think everyone needs to calm down about the "new" TAP. I think they just changed brass.
At the same time - I might be wrong, who knows. 
Either way, if you're not LE - you probably shouldn't be contacting Hornady. You might ruin it for everyone who can't regularly purchase this ammunition. Calling them and wasting their time might cause them to impose new restrictions 
The HP hole doesn't appear to be larger to me. [>:/] Old and new.. I can't tell a difference in the opening. 
I bet you can't pick the new one out, and if you do it's likely to be a guess. |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 9:41:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rock7]
[#39]
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
Well, Still no word. I may have been a putz before but now I truly feel like one. I don't know what to tell you guys other than I'll post info when I get it. Hoping to have something for y'all soon, Scott They're avoiding you. Very simple. Something's not right here. Hornady is Hornady... NOT fucking Winchester. |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 9:57:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
Well, Still no word. I may have been a putz before but now I truly feel like one. I don't know what to tell you guys other than I'll post info when I get it. Hoping to have something for y'all soon, Scott Something's not right here. LOL I wish you were being sarcastic but with your previous posts in this threads I know you’re not. Thing is, my most recent purchase came from a LEO and he got it directly from Hornady. The brass is WCC stamped. So let’s get this straight. You’re saying that there’s some funny business going on AT Hornady? Hmm.. I really really doubt that. |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 10:08:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By liaisons:
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
Well, Still no word. I may have been a putz before but now I truly feel like one. I don't know what to tell you guys other than I'll post info when I get it. Hoping to have something for y'all soon, Scott Something's not right here. LOL I wish you were being sarcastic but with your previous posts in this threads I know you’re not. Thing is, my most recent purchase came from a LEO and he got it directly from Hornady. The brass is WCC stamped. So let’s get this straight. You’re saying that there’s some funny business going on AT Hornady? Hmm.. I really really doubt that. You're right. My bad. I just read the article about Ford buying parts from GM. 
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Posted: 1/13/2009 10:11:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By liaisons:
Originally Posted By Rock7:
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
Well, Still no word. I may have been a putz before but now I truly feel like one. I don't know what to tell you guys other than I'll post info when I get it. Hoping to have something for y'all soon, Scott Something's not right here. LOL I wish you were being sarcastic but with your previous posts in this threads I know you’re not. Thing is, my most recent purchase came from a LEO and he got it directly from Hornady. The brass is WCC stamped. So let’s get this straight. You’re saying that there’s some funny business going on AT Hornady? Hmm.. I really really doubt that. You're right. My bad. I just read the article about Ford buying parts from GM. LOL ... |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2009 10:21:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushMeister]
[#43]
Pretty obvious size difference, from my perspective (rounds are reversed from one photo to the next). Small hole from "Hornady" brass, and big hole from "WCC 07" brass:
Either Kathy from Hornady will weigh in, or Molon or someone else who can do a good comparison will give us some more info. We've confirmed that both rounds come from Hornady. The only question now is if the bullet is the same. ***Edited to add: Hornady might be sending out a "mixed bag" of 5.56 TAP right now. Earlier rounds had "Hornady" brass, small hole bullets, and "flat" primers. Later rounds had "WCC 07" rounds, larger hole bullets and raised dimples on the primers. Maybe some rounds are shipping with a mixture of these components (i.e., "Hornady" brass with large hole bullets, etc.). That might explain what liaisons is seeing (holes of similar size despite different brass, which is not at all what my ammo shows). |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 10:30:55 PM EDT
[#44]
I know what to do. We need a few volunteers to get shot in the butt at 100 meters and tell us if they can tell a difference between big hole TAP and small hole TAP.
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Posted: 1/13/2009 10:58:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By Elessar:
I know what to do. We need a few volunteers to get shot in the butt at 100 meters and tell us if they can tell a difference between big hole TAP and small hole TAP. Uh.. yeah, you're right: /thread. Troll somewhere else NOOB. |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 11:31:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By liaisons:
Personally I think everyone needs to calm down about the "new" TAP. I think they just changed brass. At the same time - I might be wrong, who knows.
Either way, if you're not LE - you probably shouldn't be contacting Hornady. You might ruin it for everyone who can't regularly purchase this ammunition. Calling them and wasting their time might cause them to impose new restrictions
The HP hole doesn't appear to be larger to me. [>:/] Old and new.. I can't tell a difference in the opening. http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8360/556tapih0.jpg I bet you can't pick the new one out, and if you do it's likely to be a guess. If you're referring to me, I am LE otherwise I wouldn't be contacting them. Since I am LE and have been ordering 8126N and dealing with Kathy since 05 I figure I'm in a position to be the go-between for information. I'm not dropping a dime on anyone that isn't LE and have no intentions of doing so. I have nothing to gain by doing it other than giving some measure of peace to those who have concerns about what their hard-earned, large amounts of cash purchased. If you're not referring to me then carry on good sir, 
Scott |
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Posted: 1/13/2009 11:44:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By Scotter260: Originally Posted By liaisons: Personally I think everyone needs to calm down about the "new" TAP. I think they just changed brass. At the same time - I might be wrong, who knows. Either way, if you're not LE - you probably shouldn't be contacting Hornady. You might ruin it for everyone who can't regularly purchase this ammunition. Calling them and wasting their time might cause them to impose new restrictions The HP hole doesn't appear to be larger to me. [>:/] Old and new.. I can't tell a difference in the opening. http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8360/556tapih0.jpg I bet you can't pick the new one out, and if you do it's likely to be a guess. If you're referring to me, I am LE otherwise I wouldn't be contacting them. Since I am LE and have been ordering 8126N and dealing with Kathy since 05 I figure I'm in a position to be the go-between for information. I'm not dropping a dime on anyone that isn't LE and have no intentions of doing so. I have nothing to gain by doing it other than giving some measure of peace to those who have concerns about what their hard-earned, large amounts of cash purchased. If you're not referring to me then carry on good sir, Scott |
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Posted: 1/14/2009 4:55:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Bump for answers to burning questions.
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Posted: 1/15/2009 6:28:06 PM EDT
[#49]
My order of 200 shipped from ATG, I'll let you guys know Monday how it looks.
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Posted: 1/15/2009 6:51:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Scotter260:
Originally Posted By liaisons:
Personally I think everyone needs to calm down about the "new" TAP. I think they just changed brass. At the same time - I might be wrong, who knows.
Either way, if you're not LE - you probably shouldn't be contacting Hornady. You might ruin it for everyone who can't regularly purchase this ammunition. Calling them and wasting their time might cause them to impose new restrictions
The HP hole doesn't appear to be larger to me. [>:/] Old and new.. I can't tell a difference in the opening. http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8360/556tapih0.jpg I bet you can't pick the new one out, and if you do it's likely to be a guess. If you're referring to me, I am LE otherwise I wouldn't be contacting them. Since I am LE and have been ordering 8126N and dealing with Kathy since 05 I figure I'm in a position to be the go-between for information. I'm not dropping a dime on anyone that isn't LE and have no intentions of doing so. I have nothing to gain by doing it other than giving some measure of peace to those who have concerns about what their hard-earned, large amounts of cash purchased. If you're not referring to me then carry on good sir,
Scott My post was definitely not directed at you Scott. I just didn't want any non-LE members to contact Hornady. I think their stipulation on their ammo is downright stupid, but we don't own the company and we don't make the rules - so whatever. On the other hand, it's already hard to acquire and we don't need every single person contacting them when they aren't even supposed to have the ammo! That could just make it even harder to purchase. IMO, Hornady is a top-notch company and I don't believe anything fishy is going on here. Clearly have used Frontier brass in the past.. so what's wrong with Winchester? I don't have a problem with that. As for the T2 bullet having a larger opening.. it is odd, but maybe they changed it and have justification for their changes. Who knows! Hopefully Kathy will provide you with more insight as to what's going on. 
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