Picked up a P308 16 rifle and have had nothing but problems with it.

I picked up the rifle on July 13th. Upon getting home I swapped out the factory brake for my YHM Phantom brake so I could mount my suppressor. I gave it a thorough cleaning, then cleaned it in my full length ultrasonic, followed by a dry film oil bath in the ultrasonic. After cleaning I used a little white lithium grease in the buffer tube (per their instructions), and lubed up the bolt, carrier, charging handle, and trigger assembly. On the following day I took it to the range for the first time.

After the first few shots I knew I was going to be in for a fight so I started taking notes:

Ammunitions Tried:
•Winchester Ballistic 168g
•Federal Gold Medal 168g
•CBC Win Sniper 168g
•Magtech 150g
•Prvi Partizan 150g

Shooting conditions:
•Suppressed with piston in suppressed position
•Suppressed with piston in 45 degree suppressed position
•Suppressed with piston in regular position
•Suppressed with piston in 45 degree adverse position
•Not suppressed with piston in regular position
•Not suppressed with piston in adverse position

Magazines used:
•Magpul PMag 20 round
•Magpul PMag 25 round

Observations:
•Periodically casings are stuck straight out from the bolt with the bolt pulled back as if they are not even attempting to move sideways and eject
•On four occasions the spent cartridge was fed back in, rotated 180 degrees
•Gas is getting everywhere: Magazines are full of carbon and fill up with gas. Area around the piston is obviously dull from gas/carbon escape. Never had anything this bad with my piston driven Sig 716s or 516s or Ruger SR762.
•Ejection, when it does occur is not consistent. From 12:30 to 2:00... usually around 12:30 to 1:00

I immediately came home and did a complete strip and clean again, including ultrasonic. I emailed POF the details and got back a reply that only the Federal and Winchester ammo could be used in this gun. They also asked that I put my bore brush in a drill to clean the chamber and piston and try again.
I completed this, went back to the range two more times. The third trip was a little better.

Configuration:
•Piston Setting - Suppressed

Federal Gold Medal 168 Grain Sierra Match King BTHP
•Normal Buffer: 20 rounds 0 failures
•H3 Buffer: 20 rounds 1 double feed (FTE)

PMC X-Tac Match 168 Grain OTM
•Normal Buffer: 20 rounds 1 double feed (FTE)
•H3 Buffer: 20 rounds 1 double feed (FTE)

Remington UMC 150 Grain MC
•Normal Buffer: 25 rounds 0 failures
•H3 Buffer: 25 rounds 1 double feed (FTE)

While better I still don't find this level of ejection issues to be acceptable given the reputation of the manufacturer, nor the cost of the rifle. None of my other piston AR-10, AR-15, MCX, MPX or Ruger SR762 rifles perform this badly and can use basic ammos off the shelf. I emailed them back again and the response was "Looks like you have it dialed in pretty good. I would just keep running it, make sure the carrier group is lubed and there is lube in the buffer tube. If you start getting additional stovepipes then it is time to clean again."

Since then I've gone back to the range four more time. Today was so bad I only put 10 rounds through it before getting a cartridge spun 180 degrees and shoved back into the chamber so bad I had to drive it out with a wood dowel.

The fifth trip however may have taught me something... It only runs this poorly when suppressed.100% reliable shooting normally and 48% failure rate when shooting suppressed.

Federal Lake City M80
•100 rounds suppressed with piston in suppressed setting: 43 double feed ejection issues
•100 rounds suppressed with piston in suppressed 45 degree setting: 52 double feed ejection issues
•100 rounds suppressed with piston in normal setting: 49 double feed ejection issues
•100 rounds no suppressor with piston in normal setting: ZERO FAILURES!!!!

Anyone have any experience with getting these guns to perform? I've been watching numerous forums for days and see lots of failure to eject issues with POF rifles. All of them were for .308 rifles and I found none for 5.56. I've already informed the retailer of the issues as well as my attempts to work with the manufacturer and they've responded that they'll call me tomorrow to see how they can help. I really want to be positive about this but frankly given all the ammo, trips to the range, and work to try and make this thing run I'm not optimistic.

thats pretty normal from using a suppressor.





1 o'clock is signs of over gassed too.



this leads me to think it could be over cycling and the carrier is traveling too fast. you said an H3 buffer? thats an 556 buffer. if thats right you need a 308 buffer set up

you have to remember that cans increase carrier impulse/speed and if there is too little buffer its gonna cause problems.

My P308 was super gassy suppressed and had bad extraction issues ..... I never got that thing to run reliably .... Cycled VERY harsh suppressed (on the suppressed setting)

From the research I have done it's not uncommon for POF and they have spotty CS

Good luck and I would try something different buffer springs/buffers .... Slash may be able to help

http://heavybuffers.com

Agree that piston guns have more forward gas, as well as blowback from the chamber but none of my other piston driven semi-autos are even a fraction of what this gun is. (Sig 716, Sig 516, Ruger SR762, Sig MCXs)

Agreed they are 15 buffers but the POF P308 actually is setup around AR-15 carbine buffers with LR308 springs. I ended up trying everything from a H-H5 buffers since and can slow it down to around 2 o'clock with really light loads.

Agree that suppressors add back pressure and increase cycle rates. I only shoot suppressed anymore and have now tried three different cans with this one gun. All are over gassed.

I called POF and they offered to send me a smaller diameter piston to bleed off more gas. They mentioned that they've had issues with Yankee Hill suppressors. If the smaller diameter piston works it likely will prevent usage in "normal mode", sort of negating why I bought another piston gun.

They also offered to custom tune the gun to one suppressor... which also negates the purpose of having a selectable piston gun.

Will update more as I get parts from them. Thank you for the help!

Everything I've read on various forums shows these issues only on the 308 models and never on the 5.56 models. I did see a couple people with references to Slash buffers but nothing that was consistent. If I knew I could just drop in a particular one I'd gladly buy it. If POF can't get it running it'll be gone quickly.

Nice avatar mcordell!

what do you mean by forward gas?

i dont have any 308 pistons but do have LWRC 556 uppers.  the IC 14.7 is a gassy bugger. eneded up using a vltor A5 H4 6 oz buffer to bring ejection to 3 o'clock.

Forward probably not the best of terms. Just referring to gas blown off at the piston system at the front of the rifle.

Does the LWRC also use AR-15 carbine buffers? I've been casually looking at them as well.

the 556/223 cal LWRC's use normal AR lowers. nothing special there, just need to run a heavier than "normal" buffer since they seem to over size the ports. at first, with a carbine H buffer i was getting 1-2 o'clock ejection. the A5H4 buffer set up moved that to 3-4 o'clock and decreased the felt impulse.

dont know anything about LWRC's REPR 308 though, other than they are really heavy.

1) stick to the regular buffer if you are going to use the suppressed setting
2) never heard of grease in the buffer tube and the carrier doesn't need much lube at all
3) mine ran a LOT better with the 7 position buffer tube (which takes regular AR15 carbine buffers) and an Armalite AR10 spring rather than whatever carbine spring POF gave me
4) I ended up going with a PWS because of more gas piston settings and the high rail on the POF sort of annoyed me

1) Agreed regular buffer should be acceptable if it works but am running really fast with 12:30-1 o'clock ejections. Slowing actions with heavier buffers did help but not to acceptable levels. Still overgassed
2) Have heard of it but don't normally do it. Since it was in their documentation video I went ahead and followed to rule out anything out of the ordinary.
3) This is a current gen gun and is running 7 position, AR15 carbine buffers, and AR10 spring
4) Also annoyed with POF. 3 Days since last contact with no follow-up.

Also this third trip, while it had the best results, cannot be replicated and we continue to get worse results on each attempt.

Mine ejected at 1 o'clock with whatever spring they gave me (looked like AR carbine spring) but with a DPMS 308 RIFLE length and the Armalite spring it ran a lot better.

Sorry to hear you're having issues, mine never jammed or anything just the overgassing issue with some hotter loads.

I'm assuming that's a DPMS rifle length buffer and Armalite carbine length spring (since factory is AR-10 rifle spring)? Any change to the buffer tube? I've currently got their factory 7 position.

Well a week since I talked to them last and no parts sent, nor emails replied to. Tomorrow I'll email them back and copy in the retailer who is working with their sales manager at POF. At this point doing everything through email to have full documentation if I need to escalate.

..and herein lies the problem with POF, their QC is really hit or miss.

Sorry for your problems OP, the one bright side is their customer service is top notch and should take care of you.

I've owned a couple Gen3 P308 rifles. I only had problems until I sprayed a little grease in the buffer tube and took a bore brush to the gas port and chamber. Both ran 100% thereafter. I stick to M80 ball from various manufacturers as well as wolf 150gr steel cased ammo. I don't run suppressed. The one time I called POF I had to leave a voicemail. They called me back the same day and later corresponded via email. Nothing but good experiences for me.

Thanks AEROMechanic. I'm working on staying optimistic but are now 15 days since they've responded to an email or voice message. I've got the merchant attempting to work with them since they're a very big POF distributor. Sales Manager is having very little luck either...

Look on face book there hiring again..that might be your problem

Thank you so much for posting this!

So today I finally sent a formal request to the retailer to send this item back and refund me to avoid further action. In doing so I copied in everyone that I had contact along the way with at POF. More than one of those contacts now have auto-response messages that as of today (August 5th, 2016) requests that had been going to them should now be sent to other places.

Either they've got a serious staffing problem, or there's a bigger issue with the company.






From POF today:

Thank you for contacting POF-USA.
As of 8/5/2016 and moving forward, please contact the following individuals for any correspondence that you would have previously contacted XXX XXXXXXX for.

If you are a vendor or supplier in regards to a purchase order that POF-USA has issued, please contact Bryce in the purchasing department at [email protected] or (623)561-9572 ext 115.

In regards to POF-USA production control, please contact the new shop manager, Frank Mages at (209)585-8676

If you are a customer in regards to a technical question, please contact Darrel in the technical department at [email protected] or (623)561-9572 ext 105

Mine was the 7 position buffer tube and Armalite spring (they use the same spring for carbine and rifle). I used an H2 buffer but it ran 100% with a regular buffer too.

Darrel at POF will take care of you but there's only so much they can do with the variable of a suppressor thrown in.

IMHO if it runs 100% without the suppressor...and it hiccups with the suppressor and only SOME kinds of ammo...either buy a whole bunch of the stuff it likes while suppressed or just sell it with the caveat that it was cantankerous with the suppressor attached. Otherwise you will end up going down the rabbit hole of various buffers, springs etc which means lost $$$$ in both parts and ammo as you vainly test in hopes of finding the perfect combo.

So just an update. After finally getting someone at POF they've had me send it in with my suppressor so they can make gas plugs for a couple different models. While I get the concept of selling a gun you don't like I won't participate in a process of buying something that flat out will not do what it's advertised to do and take a huge loss for it. POF has promised to make it right but if they don't my bank will ensure I'm at least made whole.

If it were a matter of simple buyers remorse or general dislike I'd just take the hit and move on. Not ever doing what it was advertised to do however just isn't acceptable. Additionally if it were just "ammo picky" I could move along. I can't get anything to function reliably. The one time I got good results could never be replicated.

They did reveal a few things though..
Several people have left the company
They've got more orders than they know what to do with
They're trying to staff up and meet demand

They've now had the rifle and can for three weeks without contact.

Thanks for the updates. I hope everything works out for you. Customer service is important and I hope POF takes care of you.

I'm waiting for the revolution to come out and if I hear that the customer service has not got better I might look somewhere else.

Update?

Im interested to see results also.

Well end of the story is finally here. After POF had the item for 6 weeks I finally tried to contact them to just get status. After a period of no response from POF and the online retailer I notified my bank of the issues, provided a full history of conversations between all parties, and started a dispute. I notified the merchant and POF of the case number and got a call back very quickly from the retailer. They had already spoken with POF and gave me a full refund. I was also called by POF with a heartfelt apology for dropping the ball and letting this get through the cracks.

I'm now shooting a Daniel Defense DD5V1 instead

Well that really sucks. I was looking forward to an explanation and resolution. Sorry to hear you got put through the wringer. I love me some POF and hope they get it together over there.

Sorry if I miscommunicated. First round fails to eject and is forced forward again while the bolt picks up a live round. Never seen a condition in an AR where a bolt can pick up two rounds and get them up the two ramps simultaneously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction#Double_Feed_.28Type_3_Malfunction.29

OP-Now we need a full report comparing the POF and DD rifles. You can leave out the POF failures since we know about them :)
Differences between: Fit and feel, function, weight, felt recoil, personal impressions of each rifle.