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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:03:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Looking to build an XM177E2/629 clone. Haven't started yet. Still just gathering information for feasibility. It seems to me that the piece that will tie it all together will be the signature moderator on these guns. After some searching it appears that the moderator made by Brick here was held in high regard. My question is does Brick still make these? If not, who is the best out there currently? Also, I don't want NFA. However I do want exact dimensions with grenade ring also. Thanks! I'm not sure if Brick still makes them/has any on hand, but he's just an IM or Email away. John Thomas of Retro Arms Works, a member here, machines a repop that is as nice as they come. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:23:32 AM EDT
[#2]
John makes runs of them, if he is in between runs....try John Brace (Braceman) he makes a perfect clone of the original as does John Thomas but he doesn't do them all the time. Anyway try them both.....
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#4]
I know one place that is making NFA ones (Innovative Industries) and I am almost positive they are making non-NFA ones as well.
I've got their info and some other options listed on the spread sheet with pricing. I don't have information regarding the Brick or Braceman models but do have up-to-date pricing from Retro Arms Works. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:58:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the quick replies. I'll be in contact with all these people. Already researched the Innovative Industries unit. It is 5.5" long. Originals were 4.5" correct? I'm looking for exact matching dimensions to original spec. I guess I mislead in my original post. The rifle will be NFA for SBR since the originals were, but I don't want the moderator itself to require NFA papers.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 8:12:24 PM EDT
[#6]
i have one of griffin's. it's a linear comp and directs the concussion forward very well: http://www.griffinarmament.com/Griffin-XM-Linear-Comp-p/xmlc.htm
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Posted: 8/28/2015 6:04:02 PM EDT
[#7]
I have a griffen on my E2, with a thick lock washer behind the grenade ring, It comes out to be 16-1/8" from the bolt face on an 11.5" barrel. So technically it at that point can be pinned and no SBR needed. I also stripped and re coated the Griffien since they finish them in a glossy black material. Real ones are light gray flat to dark gray flat parkerized. Other than finish it is a very nice reproduction down to the opening at the front that looks just like it has the internal baffling.
Finish after on Griffen 
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:32:07 PM EDT
[#8]
The Griffin is finished in black DLC coating like their other comps, which is a satin black. However, I found that just a few light swipes with a scotch-brite turned it grey, and made it indistinguishable (to me) from well-worn parkerizing. i added a few more scratches when doing the rest of my rifle and it blends in perfectly. i snapped a pic below of the one i distressed, and a brand new one for comparison. If you're going for the brand-new matte grey parkerizing look, then this method won't work, of course.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:23:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks again for the input and pics. Looks like I might go with Griffin. Didn't realize I could still be true to spec and it not be an SBR. E2 barrel = 11.5 and moderator on E2 w/ring ~4.5. 11.5+4.5=16
 (pinned and welded of course). Plus the Griffin provides some actual function over the all the others. Can you guys that have the Griffin provide input on how well the Griffin functions? Doesn't really matter to me, some function is better than cosmetic only. They advertise it was spec'd off of a true Colt moderator so accuracy to original is there. I'm just curious, and the price isn't bad either. Now just to find a .625 11.5" barrel. I was hoping that Sportman's Guide still would have had the M16A1 kits. I was just gonna piece the rest off one of those. Trying to stay all Colt as best I can minus just the lower receiver like I did my 603 clone.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:16:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks again for the input and pics. Looks like I might go with Griffin. Didn't realize I could still be true to spec and it not be an SBR. E2 barrel = 11.5 and moderator on E2 w/ring ~4.5. 11.5+4.5=16 (pinned and welded of course). Plus the Griffin provides some actual function over the all the others. Can you guys that have the Griffin provide input on how well the Griffin functions? Doesn't really matter to me, some function is better than cosmetic only. They advertise it was spec'd off of a true Colt moderator so accuracy to original is there. I'm just curious, and the price isn't bad either. Now just to find a .625 11.5" barrel. I was hoping that Sportman's Guide still would have had the M16A1 kits. I was just gonna piece the rest off one of those. Trying to stay all Colt as best I can minus just the lower receiver like I did my 603 clone.You have some overlap, so an 11.5" barrel won't cut it with a 4.5" moderator. You need to go about 12.37" IIRC. Lots of guys here have been through this and can give you pointers. You need a 14.5" or 16" barrel and cut it down. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:52:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have some overlap, so an 11.5" barrel won't cut it with a 4.5" moderator. You need to go about 12.37" IIRC. Lots of guys here have been through this and can give you pointers. You need a 14.5" or 16" barrel and cut it down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks again for the input and pics. Looks like I might go with Griffin. Didn't realize I could still be true to spec and it not be an SBR. E2 barrel = 11.5 and moderator on E2 w/ring ~4.5. 11.5+4.5=16 (pinned and welded of course). Plus the Griffin provides some actual function over the all the others. Can you guys that have the Griffin provide input on how well the Griffin functions? Doesn't really matter to me, some function is better than cosmetic only. They advertise it was spec'd off of a true Colt moderator so accuracy to original is there. I'm just curious, and the price isn't bad either. Now just to find a .625 11.5" barrel. I was hoping that Sportman's Guide still would have had the M16A1 kits. I was just gonna piece the rest off one of those. Trying to stay all Colt as best I can minus just the lower receiver like I did my 603 clone.You have some overlap, so an 11.5" barrel won't cut it with a 4.5" moderator. You need to go about 12.37" IIRC. Lots of guys here have been through this and can give you pointers. You need a 14.5" or 16" barrel and cut it down. yeah, the 1/2-28 threads on the end of the barrel are generally 5/8" "long".....so you're going to lose some of that 5/8" length.......by whatever thickness washer you may use. EDIT:.......should clarify.....you will lose all of the 5/8" EXCEPT the thickness of the washer used. If no washer is used you will lose 5/8" length. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:00:40 PM EDT
[#12]
I was going to go with a Daniel Defense lightweight and cut it down but after pricing the cost to cut it and have an A1 FSB pinned to it, I decided to go with a JT Dist/DoubleStar 11.5 Lightweight.
The only drawback with the JT is that it has a F marked FSB and a 1-9 twist barrel but it still looks good. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:05:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have some overlap, so an 11.5" barrel won't cut it with a 4.5" moderator. You need to go about 12.37" IIRC. Lots of guys here have been through this and can give you pointers. You need a 14.5" or 16" barrel and cut it down. Exactly this. I bought a new Colt 16" pencil barrel from Brownells and had it cut down to 12.37" for 16.1" total length with the moderator. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:09:16 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:58:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember the mod itself is 4.5" but add on a thicker lock washer and the grenade ring, that makes up for the difference on an 11.5" measured from the bolt face. Least it did on mine using a Double Star 11.5, If your just going to run the mod and nothing behind it go with a longer barrel. Due to propensity for carbon buildup inside the mod I have an SBR on my XM177, besides being able to just run it with a standard flash hider is wicked too  No offense, but you're trying to reinvent the wheel here. A number of members have built 'Non-NFA' XM177E2 clones, and they will all tell you that an 11.5" barrel will not be legal with a 4.5" moderator, thick washer or not. I'm not sure how you're measuring, but I encourage you to be careful. There are probably 100 archived posts about this. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 8:52:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No offense, but you're trying to reinvent the wheel here. A number of members have built 'Non-NFA' XM177E2 clones, and they will all tell you that an 11.5" barrel will not be legal with a 4.5" moderator, thick washer or not. I'm not sure how you're measuring, but I encourage you to be careful. There are probably 100 archived posts about this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember the mod itself is 4.5" but add on a thicker lock washer and the grenade ring, that makes up for the difference on an 11.5" measured from the bolt face. Least it did on mine using a Double Star 11.5, If your just going to run the mod and nothing behind it go with a longer barrel. Due to propensity for carbon buildup inside the mod I have an SBR on my XM177, besides being able to just run it with a standard flash hider is wicked too No offense, but you're trying to reinvent the wheel here. A number of members have built 'Non-NFA' XM177E2 clones, and they will all tell you that an 11.5" barrel will not be legal with a 4.5" moderator, thick washer or not. I'm not sure how you're measuring, but I encourage you to be careful. There are probably 100 archived posts about this. I must agree with Morg308. Not trying to stir the pot... but, think of it this way. If your barrel is 11.5 inches and your moderator is 4.5 inches (which the correct ones are not, they are 4.3 inches). Then play devil's advocate and say there is zero thread overlap (which obviously there has to be some thread overlap). 11.5 plus 4.5 is 16". So to have none of the threads screwed together, would still only get you to 16"... and that is if the moderator was .2 inches longer than spec. Any chance you are using a 5.5" moderator? John Thomas |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Yeah I guess I didn't think about overlap with the threading the moderator onto the barrel. Makes total sense now. It looks like the best barrel to go with would be to cut down a modern Colt 16" lightweight like militarymoron did. I dug up one of Molon's old posts about those barrels and the good thing about them is that they are already .625" at the FSB, but he didn't mention if the FSB that came on them was F marked or not. I looked on Brownell's and they didn't mention either. Does anybody know if these barrels come with F marked FSBs or not?
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:48:21 PM EDT
[#18]
this is the colt barrel (LW) at brownells: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-16-5-56-barrel-assembly-prod71164.aspx
it comes with the FSB and mine was marked <B>2, not F |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 10:33:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah I guess I didn't think about overlap with the threading the moderator onto the barrel. Makes total sense now. It looks like the best barrel to go with would be to cut down a modern Colt 16" lightweight like militarymoron did. I dug up one of Molon's old posts about those barrels and the good thing about them is that they are already .625" at the FSB, but he didn't mention if the FSB that came on them was F marked or not. I looked on Brownell's and they didn't mention either. Does anybody know if these barrels come with F marked FSBs or not? Griffin states on the product page to use a 12.73" barrel for compliance. "Pictured is a 12.37" barrel 16.19" non NFA pinned and welded build on a Griffin Armament XM Linear comp." For that you have some options depending on the twist you are looking for. DoubleStar has some and they will apparently put on a non-F FSB if you call. There are some other barrel options for you too. |
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