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Posted: 7/26/2015 4:50:49 PM EDT
NOT MINE.
I was buying some Browning 1919 parts from a guy earlier this week and snapped a couple pictures of an SP1 that he had. This was a side conversation and not the purpose of my visit so sorry for the terrible pics. Duckbill flashhider,Early non-trapdoor stock, mottled grip, perfect handguard, chrome bolt head. - Serial "02424" Does that make it a 4-digit or 5-digit serial number with the leading zero? 
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Posted: 7/26/2015 4:58:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Four digit = 1964 -'65 time period = Nice!
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:09:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Whats up with the bolt catch?
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:12:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Wow nice! Hell yeah its more valuable than later ones.
Also I'm sure it was just a standard 3 prong, not a duckbill 
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:34:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Wow :)
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats up with the bolt catch? |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:47:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow :) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow :) Quoted:
Whats up with the bolt catch? What's up with it? I don't know enough about the SP1s. |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:47:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats up with the bolt catch? I was going to ask the same thing. Never seen one like that. |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 5:55:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Here is a good description of the ones we're all familiar with, the bolt catch on the pictured SP1 is not in this list:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/665957__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_evolution_of_the_bolt_catch_.html&page=1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's up with it? I don't know enough about the SP1s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wow :) Quoted:
Whats up with the bolt catch? What's up with it? I don't know enough about the SP1s. |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 6:07:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Looking at it zoomed in it appears the bottom dimple on the catch may have broken off. Maybe a bad casting.
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Posted: 7/26/2015 6:10:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Nice rifle.
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Posted: 7/26/2015 9:35:57 PM EDT
[#10]
That serial makes it a C&R, so it's more valuable than later guns on that basis alone. Every year going forward another batch of SP1s will attain that status, which has implications for their saleability into ban states and to collectors.
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Posted: 7/26/2015 9:47:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That serial makes it a C&R, so it's more valuable than later guns on that basis alone. Every year going forward another batch of SP1s will attain that status, which has implications for their saleability into ban states and to collectors. Would a 13xxx 601 trasnsferable be c&r? |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 9:57:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would a 13xxx 601 trasnsferable be c&r? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That serial makes it a C&R, so it's more valuable than later guns on that basis alone. Every year going forward another batch of SP1s will attain that status, which has implications for their saleability into ban states and to collectors. Would a 13xxx 601 trasnsferable be c&r? Yes. 50 years is the standard and a late 601 would have hit that age a couple years ago. |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 10:08:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Aside from the C&R status, the earlier SP1s had harder-to-find, "early" components. Probably an M-VP barrel with 3-prong, early bend gas tube, no-hole handguards, an Edgewater buffer, that "dimpled" selector switch and (as you indicated) a transitional BCG with parked carrier and chromed bolt.
To retro collectors, the more "early" components, the better, so this rifle is worth noticeably more than later examples. (For an actual value, post the question in the "appraisal" thread at the top of this forum.) As for the bolt release, compare to this one, from 018XX: 
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Posted: 7/26/2015 10:25:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would a 13xxx 601 trasnsferable be c&r? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That serial makes it a C&R, so it's more valuable than later guns on that basis alone. Every year going forward another batch of SP1s will attain that status, which has implications for their saleability into ban states and to collectors. Would a 13xxx 601 trasnsferable be c&r? Transferrable Model 01s were made C&R based on collectibility already about 20 years or more ago. Different animal from the SP1s. All AR15 Model 01s are already C&R. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:12:49 AM EDT
[#15]
WOW! Thank you gentlemen for all your excellent posts and feedback! I talked to the owner and he is going to send me a few more pictures that I'll post up.
Again this is not my rifle, this belongs to a gentleman that I met earlier this week to buy some 1919 parts from. Really cool dude, and this is really neat to see that this is indeed a special AR15. More pictures in a couple days. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:40:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Owner took a look at this thread and is pretty stoked!
He said that there is a backstory to the bolt release, that he had it swapped a long time ago with a different one, didn't like it and had the gunsmith swap it back sometime later but the smith put in a different release and gave him his new removed one and the original wrapped in oiled wax paper not wanting to swap it again. Fear of breaking the roll pin bosses perhaps? I know that is one operation on the AR I personally don't like doing... Of course he still has the release all these years later.
More pics. Just really hoping that if someone is doing a retro build in this AR's vintage that they can use these for reference. It turns out I'll be seeing the owner again later this week (he dug up more parts for me) so I can take larger pics of you guys want them for reference. On to the pics... |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:40:56 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:41:29 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:42:08 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 7/27/2015 4:01:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Placeholder for additional pictures
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Posted: 7/27/2015 4:24:34 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm in lust
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Posted: 7/27/2015 4:50:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Very nice.
Noticed that it is unfortunately missing the original parkerized firing pin retaining pin. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aside from the C&R status, the earlier SP1s had harder-to-find, "early" components. Probably an M-VP barrel [Check] with 3-prong [Check], early bend gas tube [Check], no-hole handguards [Check], an Edgewater buffer [Check], that "dimpled" selector switch [Check] and (as you indicated) a transitional BCG with parked carrier [Check] and chromed bolt [Check]. To retro collectors, the more "early" components, the better, so this rifle is worth noticeably more than later examples. (For an actual value, post the question in the "appraisal" thread at the top of this forum.) As for the bolt release, compare to this one, from 018XX: http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/64SP1/bltcatc4.jpg Also a flat head firing pin. [Check] Yep, that rifle checks all sorts of cool boxes! Out of curiosity, do you know if that's the original magazine with .223-marked floorplate? And does he happen to have the original sling (looks like a 601 sling, but in black)? And since we're asking questions...(well, I am, at least)...you see the small hole drilled through the lower just forward of the stock? Is there a roll pin in there? (The roll pin would intersect the threads of the receiver extension, "locking it" in place, but I've seen some early rifles with the hole but with no roll pin--that didn't look like they'd been altered.) Finally...I won't ask you to disassemble the entire rifle and photograph all the FCG pieces...but do you see any markings on the sides of the hammer? Two notes of interest... First the firing pin retaining pin is the cotter pin style. The BCG in 018XX had a park'd machined retaining pin (see below). It would be interesting of we could confirm that the cotter pin in that one is original. (I'm not sure when that change was made.) And second, note that my bolt has the bevels cut into the trailing edge of the lugs--and the corresponding diagonal cutter marks right behind the lugs. The bolt in your pics doesn't show those bevels. 
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Posted: 7/27/2015 8:58:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Olgunner - AFAIK, all SP1s left the factory with cotter pin style FP retainers - although the earlier BC would have still been in use until they changed the hole size. I like that it has the original staking. Good catch on the bolt cuts. Looks like it's not Colt.
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:03:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Olgunner - AFAIK, all SP1s left the factory with cotter pin style FP retainers - although the earlier BC would have still been in use until they changed the hole size. I like that it has the original staking. Good catch on the bolt cuts. Looks like it's not Colt. hey morg, early ones had the machined once piece retaining pins. they were parked instead of hard chrome like their military counterparts. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:24:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hey morg, early ones had the machined once piece retaining pins. they were parked instead of hard chrome like their military counterparts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Olgunner - AFAIK, all SP1s left the factory with cotter pin style FP retainers - although the earlier BC would have still been in use until they changed the hole size. I like that it has the original staking. Good catch on the bolt cuts. Looks like it's not Colt. hey morg, early ones had the machined once piece retaining pins. they were parked instead of hard chrome like their military counterparts. Really? Huh. You learn something every day. What do you think about the bolt lugs? |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:27:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Huh. You learn something every day. What do you think about the bolt lugs? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Olgunner - AFAIK, all SP1s left the factory with cotter pin style FP retainers - although the earlier BC would have still been in use until they changed the hole size. I like that it has the original staking. Good catch on the bolt cuts. Looks like it's not Colt. hey morg, early ones had the machined once piece retaining pins. they were parked instead of hard chrome like their military counterparts. Really? Huh. You learn something every day. What do you think about the bolt lugs? Yeah my 1965 SP1 has the machined one. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:42:25 PM EDT
[#30]
checked all my SP1s w/ chrome bolts and they all had the cut so i decided to check my spare chrome bolts. i did find one that only had 2 cuts and they were very light. had to take a lot of pics before i got it to show.
i think this is one of those cases where the cuts were very light 
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:51:38 PM EDT
[#31]
This makes me want to post up my four digit SP1.. And let you guys tell me about it!
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:56:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks for all the cool pictures o-p! It's really awesome to see such an original rifle.
And a great big Thank You! to the owner for sharing your rifle with us!
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Posted: 7/28/2015 12:16:43 AM EDT
[#33]
I certainly didn't mean to imply the bolt is not original. The M and P look right from what I can see, I just find it interesting that it doesn't appear to have the beveled lugs.
I'd be interested in hearing from owners of SP1s in this same SN range (say, 2000-2500) to see how their bolts look. ETA: OP, if you can, try to get additional pics of the bolt. |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 12:17:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah my 1965 SP1 has the machined one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Olgunner - AFAIK, all SP1s left the factory with cotter pin style FP retainers - although the earlier BC would have still been in use until they changed the hole size. I like that it has the original staking. Good catch on the bolt cuts. Looks like it's not Colt. hey morg, early ones had the machined once piece retaining pins. they were parked instead of hard chrome like their military counterparts. Really? Huh. You learn something every day. What do you think about the bolt lugs? Yeah my 1965 SP1 has the machined one. hk45--is your serial number before or after this one? |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 8:33:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hk45--is your serial number before or after this one? After. SP026xx |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 1:34:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the cool pictures o-p! It's really awesome to see such an original rifle. And a great big Thank You! to the owner for sharing your rifle with us! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the cool pictures o-p! It's really awesome to see such an original rifle. And a great big Thank You! to the owner for sharing your rifle with us! Thanks fellas. I have a soft spot for retro or vintage or unmolested firearms (whatever we're calling them) and a real soft spot for early AR15s. I just saw this when discussing the sale of totally unrelated parts. I asked the owner if he would mind if I posted it up on AR15 to see where his rifle stood in respect to originality and he was game. I took the first two pictures with my phone, sent him the link to this thread, this thread took off (thanks to everyone here!) and he has since taken every subsequent picture with his iPad and emailed them to me, which I strip of metadata, upload to my Photobucket account, and post here. This has been super educational for me too!
Quoted:
I certainly didn't mean to imply the bolt is not original. The M and P look right from what I can see, I just find it interesting that it doesn't appear to have the beveled lugs. I'd be interested in hearing from owners of SP1s in this same SN range (say, 2000-2500) to see how their bolts look. ETA: OP, if you can, try to get additional pics of the bolt. I asked for more pics which I'll post in a moment. I asked him about the bolt and he wrote ( [bracketed items denote my additions] ): "[Attached to this email are] Original mag that came with the gun. Keep in mind I bought this rifle when I was -- years old, 41 years ago. No sling, did not have one when purchased. Small hole forward of buttstock......no roll pin. No markings that I can see on the sides of the hammer. As far as the bolt; there are no bevel cuts whatsoever that I can see. You can clearly see the "M" and the "P" on the existing bolt, just as in his [OlGunner's] pictures. You can see the "P" in my photographs but the "M" is almost impossible to photograph. You can see it in person when you come down. [...] this is the original bolt. I have never bought or sold AR parts, just have a few spares from mods I have done over the years, never bolts." [meaning that this is the bolt that came with the rifle and other than the bolt release catch lever the bolt has never been swapped for another] I'm driving to see the owner to buy more 1919 parts sometime this week. I'll bring my Nikon. |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 1:40:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Magazine:
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Posted: 7/28/2015 1:42:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Rear of lower receiver and bolt group.
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Posted: 7/28/2015 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Please thank your friend for us. Those are very informative photographs.
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