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Posted: 5/16/2015 12:10:47 PM EDT
Since we haven't done a retro postal match in a while I propose we do a new one.
Mil-Spec seems to be around 4.5MOA based on what the interweb says. Course of fire: Irons only 20 rounds 55gr ball ammo prone or sitting (shooters choice) 100 yards 5 minutes Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from BROWN cardboard with a 4" black bull sticker / or painted on bull. Shoot your target and post a pic of the target and the rifle/carbine used. Highest number in the black wins bragging rights.  and 2 flat slip rings.
deadline for submission July 1st. ETA: Cdenmark is the winner. Please keep shooting and posting your groups. |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 3:26:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Now, that sounds like a damn fine idea!
Of course, I'll need to re-up my membership at the local sportsman's association just to have a KD range, but I was planning to do that anyway. I'm in! In fact, I can probably find more than one old AR to try out! C'mon! Who else is ready to foul a barrel?? |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 3:28:37 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm in.
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Posted: 5/16/2015 3:32:06 PM EDT
[#3]
4MOA from a couple years ago.
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Posted: 5/16/2015 3:33:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
C'mon! Who else is ready to foul a barrel?? Oh I am in...not too much danger in me claiming the slip rings, but I will give it the old blind guy attempt. Report next Thursday after some range time. |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 3:40:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Ok I'm in if I can shoot tomorrow! See what my 604 can do
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Posted: 5/16/2015 4:15:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Hopefully the rain lets up here by Thursday or Friday - then I will hit the range and give it a try!
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Posted: 5/16/2015 4:30:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Since we haven't done a retro postal match in a while I propose we do a new one. Mil-Spec seems to be around 4.5MOA based on what the interweb says. Course of fire: Irons only 20 rounds 55gr ball ammo prone or sitting (shooters choice) 100 yards 5 minutes Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from cardboard with a 4" black bull painted on. Shoot your target and post a pic of the target and the rifle used. Highest number in the black wins bragging rights. and 2 flat slip rings.Can an Official 100 Yard Military Type Target be used? I have a few that I have not used in a while. 
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Posted: 5/16/2015 5:43:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Since we haven't done a retro postal match in a while I propose we do a new one. Mil-Spec seems to be around 4.5MOA based on what the interweb says. Course of fire: Irons only 20 rounds 55gr ball ammo prone or sitting (shooters choice) 100 yards 5 minutes Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from cardboard with a 4" black bull painted on. Shoot your target and post a pic of the target and the rifle used. Highest number in the black wins bragging rights. and 2 flat slip rings.Nice challenge. Kudos. |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 6:15:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can an Official 100 Yard Military Type Target be used? I have a few that I have not used in a while. <a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/accessories/792024_zpsbily8puo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/accessories/792024_zpsbily8puo.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since we haven't done a retro postal match in a while I propose we do a new one. Mil-Spec seems to be around 4.5MOA based on what the interweb says. Course of fire: Irons only 20 rounds 55gr ball ammo prone or sitting (shooters choice) 100 yards 5 minutes Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from cardboard with a 4" black bull painted on. Shoot your target and post a pic of the target and the rifle used. Highest number in the black wins bragging rights. and 2 flat slip rings.Can an Official 100 Yard Military Type Target be used? I have a few that I have not used in a while. <a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/accessories/792024_zpsbily8puo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/accessories/792024_zpsbily8puo.jpg</a> As long as the black is 4" in diameter and you stick it on the torso backer. However, part of the challenge is to shoot at a target that doesn't have a super contrasting presentation. Sort of like a soldier in a subdued color uniform. Non-scoring Style Point will be awarded to shooters that paint the face like an "Ivan" or "Charlie".
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Posted: 5/16/2015 6:52:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Sounds like a good retro effort amongst us, Going to be a while til I can get to my range. Like mid June. But will try to have an entry then.
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Posted: 5/17/2015 12:35:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Damn, I might have to get in on this to show what a 605 and an old guy can still do.
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Posted: 5/17/2015 2:05:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Sounds like a challenge for my day off this Friday. Looks like I'll bust out the 653.
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Posted: 5/17/2015 8:53:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Ok, since many of us are old and slow................
.............we''ll make the deadline for submission July 1st.
That will also get some fence sitters involved once they start seeing targets posted. |
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Posted: 5/17/2015 12:48:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmm i'm moving between now and the deadline but i'll get in. Need to find the correct target though. You would think of the 100+ targets I have lying around the house one would be right but nope. I'll see if i can find one at the range.
Also Mike, speak for yourself but i don't consider myself old, not for another 21 days! |
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Posted: 5/17/2015 12:54:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Are C7's kosher?
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Posted: 5/17/2015 2:20:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are C7's kosher? I consider C7's retro, so yes. |
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Posted: 5/17/2015 4:23:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Well.... I went out and shot this today:
Shot it at an 18" silhouette target, but stupidly It was a paper target and not one i made myself with a 4" circle in the middle, crap! either way was happy with the group will have to reset and try in another couple of weeks now 
oh and just for shits and giggles it was 91 degrees humid as hell and I had to squat in a frickin bush getting my butt bitten by ticks in order to get a 100 yard shot (people have left stuff all over my usual 100+ yard shot!) p.s. group measured around 3.8" but i didn't post a pic here to stop any confusion about people using the correct targets. |
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Posted: 5/19/2015 12:39:33 AM EDT
[#18]
OP.
Will something like this suffice for a target as long as it's 18" wide with a 4" bull? These boxes happen to be 18" wide and 25.5 inches in height once perforated pieces and tabs are removed. Just wanted to confirm before I expend any resources or paint. Probably paint them 601 retro furniture green or white. Would actually work better for me if rules were not to exceed 18" homebrewed target width, as my target stands aren't that wide but I can also staple target to a couple 1" posts and drive them into the ground. 
Also, ,my interpretation of a retro clone weapon is an A-1 fixed sight carry handle upper with a LW profile barrel regardless of material, barrel length or twist rate. Various twist LW barrels out there today not to mention all the XM177 retro clones. Also going to assume that SP-1 rifle / carbines are a go? One target entry per retro build and as many builds as one wants to shoot? |
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Posted: 5/19/2015 2:06:48 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm thinking Memorial Day might be a good day to do this.
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Posted: 5/19/2015 8:55:47 AM EDT
[#20]
OK, we clearly need to define the left and right limits for the target.
I will whip one up at work today and post a pic with dimensions. |
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Posted: 5/19/2015 11:48:39 AM EDT
[#21]
For some reason, I was thinking you were talking about an IPSC target with a 4" black dot. Here's some dimensions of what I was planning.
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Posted: 5/19/2015 12:15:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from cardboard with a 4" black bull painted stuck on...
 " />
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Posted: 5/19/2015 12:36:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Target consists of an 18" wide "torso" silhouette cut from cardboard with a 4" black bull painted stuck on... http://<a href=http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y345/fastswift1/IMG_3834.jpg</a>" /> This is what we want. right here.  Thank you fastswift.
Paint or 4" sticker is fine. ETA: you don't have to "clip" the corners, square is OK. |
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Posted: 5/19/2015 4:31:23 PM EDT
[#24]
We're in business now after final target clarification!
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Posted: 5/19/2015 9:39:13 PM EDT
[#25]
So, the IDPA dimensions are correct?
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Posted: 5/19/2015 10:17:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, the IDPA dimensions are correct? Other than the circle it appears so. |
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Posted: 5/19/2015 10:34:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Ugh, 4 MOA.
No thanks. |
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Posted: 5/20/2015 9:44:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ugh, 4 MOA. No thanks. Well you can shoot a tighter group if you want.
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Posted: 5/20/2015 9:46:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Other than the circle it appears so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, the IDPA dimensions are correct? Other than the circle it appears so. [pirate voice] It's more of a guideline than a code [pirate voice] |
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Posted: 5/24/2015 12:42:11 PM EDT
[#30]
well, I'd like to be the first to post my targets but....there's not any holes in them.
that's a LOT harder than it sounds, i ran outa ammo before i could dial it in. I'll be back maybe, to be historically retro correct we should use watermelons.
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Posted: 5/24/2015 4:46:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
well, I'd like to be the first to post my targets but....there's not any holes in them. that's a LOT harder than it sounds, i ran outa ammo before i could dial it in. I'll be back maybe, to be historically retro correct we should use watermelons. I was at the KD range on Thursday and shot so poorly with my Mk12 Mod 1, I never even brought out the retro gun. I think it was "bad" ammo - yea thats it..."bad" ammo....
Two weeks till the next attempt. |
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Posted: 5/24/2015 5:15:44 PM EDT
[#32]
4" is pretty small dot out there for these old eyes.. I'm going to wait for a windless day. HA! It's bad enough off a rest, sitting should be interesting. I'm hoping for 1.
That was fun! I haven't shot in a sitting position unsupported in a very long time. I shot without a sling and I'll probably keep it that way but I may get a wild hair and put the sling on. The Federal M193 definately shot different than the Federal .223 from Wal-Mart. I need to adjust the sights for off hand sitting. I've got a few more tries at it. I may have to get a QMS trigger and toss in there. That GI 7-8lbs is tough. I spotted the first two which were way low and Kentucky windaged the rest. Still way under 5 minutes shooting time. If I could move that bull, I could fit 10 in there. I'm thinking I can do better once I have a better aiming point.   
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Posted: 5/31/2015 8:33:02 AM EDT
[#33]
That's still good shooting.
I'm going out today to shoot mine. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:34:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Re-installed the barrel on a SP-1 upper I recently picked up off GB that was way over torqued and I think I got it zero'd in at 100 meters. CM code receiver and C MP Chrome Bore barrel with C and MPC M-16 BCG. Nothing fancy. Tried some Federal M-193 I purchased from vendor PSA. Did notice the current production M-193 varied 0.050 measured at olgive in one box of 20 rounds. Not the tolerances I was expecting in Federal factory boxed M-193 ammo. Don't know where they got the bullets but they are all over the place.
13 hits in 4" bull at 100 meters shooting prone. Still over 4 MOA. I would have thought 16 or 17 were in the bull when shot but they weren't. Was almost disappointed but all the shots would have ruined a zombies day. Went to try sitting and was moving too much to even squeeze the trigger. Fixed the Bush Hog so I'll cut the field this week and possibly try my 604 this coming weekend. I know that one is zero'd for 100 meters. Have to scrounge some brown cardboard to give it another try. All I have is white cardboard and no brown paint. Do have a NVAish target I'm saving for a better shooting day / entry. It actually got too hot for the wife and myself to really enjoy ourselves so we packed it up. Really just went to farm to pick up some tomato cages and figured I'd burn a couple boxes of x-mas ammo while I was there and zero in my new purchase. Sat 5-30-2015. SP-1 contest entry. Will enter 604 clone at later date. 
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:42:33 PM EDT
[#35]
I have a 604 with MP C barrel that can shoot the knecks off beer bottles at 100 yards, I really need to try this to see how accurate it really is. It has a polished Colt USGI FCG with JP Yellow Springs, 5.4lb break does that qualify for this or no??
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Posted: 5/31/2015 1:54:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Re-installed the barrel on a SP-1 upper I recently picked up off GB that was way over torqued and I think I got it zero'd in at 100 meters. CM code receiver and C MP Chrome Bore barrel with C and MPC M-16 BCG. Nothing fancy. Tried some Federal M-193 I purchased from vendor PSA. Did notice the current production M-193 varied 0.050 measured at olgive in one box of 20 rounds. Not the tolerances I was expecting in Federal factory boxed M-193 ammo. Don't know where they got the bullets but they are all over the place. 13 hits in 4" bull at 100 meters shooting prone. Still over 4 MOA. I would have thought 16 or 17 were in the bull when shot but they weren't. Was almost disappointed but all the shots would have ruined a zombies day. Fixed the Bush Hog so I'll cut the field this week and possibly try my 604 this coming weekend. I know that one is zero'd for 100 meters. Have to scrounge some brown cardboard to give it another try. All I have is white cardboard and no brown paint. Do have a NVAish target I'm saving for a better shooting day / entry. It actually got too hot for the wife and myself to really enjoy ourselves so we packed it up. Really just went to farm to pick up some tomato cages and figured I'd burn a couple boxes of x-mas ammo while I was there and zero in my new purchase. Sat 5-30-2015. http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab223/cndenmark/DSCN2118_zps1zzyt9tj.jpg I'm counting 18 shots correct? Maybe shooting a bit high? I'd try 1 click on the FSP on that upper, possibly would have gotten them all in the 4" bull as most of your hits were on the upper side of your aim. That's fantastic shooting with an upper your not familiar with, I have no doubt that you'd get them all in the bull with a setup you were comfy with. I really like this one particular MP C barrel on a late square forge 604 upper I have, it outshoots any of my chrome lined A1 barrels. I know people say the unchrome lined barrels are a little more accurate, but this particular MP C outshoots previous MP C's I have zero'd on builds. It's got a higher round count on it these days, but still knocks em dead. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 2:32:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Will, he's got 13 in the 4" Bull, and another 5 just above it, for a total of 18. Only the ones in the 4" Bull count, the way I understand the rules. But, I could be wrong. I wanted to go out today, but it's supposed to hit 107, and that's just too hot. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 2:35:24 PM EDT
[#38]
So on the hypothetical here that I actually get my rifle finished by the deadline:
Until/unless I join the club a bit south of me, the closest range is an indoor that had 50' and 75' rifle stalls. Would a half-scale target at 50' be considered acceptable? On an off note, I spent this past week on a business trip in MN, where I go pretty regularly. It didn't dawn on me until I got home and saw some lowers around here why "Edina" sounded familiar. We stay there pretty often hotel wise. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 2:58:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will, he's got 13 in the 4" Bull, and another 5 just above it, for a total of 18. Only the ones in the 4" Bull count, the way I understand the rules. But, I could be wrong. I wanted to go out today, but it's supposed to hit 107, and that's just too hot. I understand the rules, wasn't sure if he put 18 rounds in a 20 round mag or used a whole 20 round box and had 2 fliers I didn't see. If he only shot 18 rounds, he could of very well gotten a score of 15. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:44:18 PM EDT
[#40]
I can clearly see 19 shots, so there may be 2 in 1 somewhere?
ETA: or a single way high just below the neck area. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:50:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can clearly see 19 shots, so there may be 2 in 1 somewhere? ETA: or a single way high just below the neck area. Your right, I just recounted and there are 19 holes, didn't see the flier at the neck line. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:52:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Harlan and I went out today and I shot two targets for (non) score.
They were prone w/sling. #1 I thought I had a good bench zero but they all went right once I was on the ground. 
So I re-zeroed in the prone and it all seemed good. Then I shot #2 and you can see I was bit more centered, but the group opened up a bit.  It was me, not the rifle.
Harlan said I was finishing in around 2.5 minutes. So I need to settle down a bit. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 3:59:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 604 with MP C barrel that can shoot the knecks off beer bottles at 100 yards, I really need to try this to see how accurate it really is. It has a polished Colt USGI FCG with JP Yellow Springs, 5.4lb break does that qualify for this or no?? As long as it's not lighter than mil-spec minimum which is 4.5 lbs IIRC. I know my heavy ass trigger didn't help my shooting. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 5:41:48 PM EDT
[#44]
It's 20 rounds. Far right is two basically touching and the other is 2 plus inches above the rest by the crease just left of center. Time 4 minutes 5 seconds.
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Posted: 6/7/2015 10:17:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Bump for all you slackers.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 11:28:43 AM EDT
[#46]
Here's a non scoring practice target from 6-7-15 AM shooting session. Bull and below are new purchase SP-1 upper shooting the culls from a few boxes of M-193. Head shots are buddy shooting a factory boxed Windham Weaponry A-3 / A-4 ?, 20" govt profile 1-7 barrel with removable carry handle. I forgot tarp and CLP in my haste to go shooting. Was a great time regardless of searching for brass in tall grass.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 1:08:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Can a carbine be used?
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Posted: 6/9/2015 10:13:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can a carbine be used? I'm curious also if a carbine can be used? This afternoon I will be hitting the range with my Colt XM16E1 and Colt Model 653 (IDF). Both clones of course. Will have pictures this evening. mike_nds: you can go ahead and make out the shipping label to my home address for the 2 flat slip rings for winning this contest. Everyone else save your ammo and stay home. This contest is a given, to me.
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Posted: 6/9/2015 10:42:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can a carbine be used? Yes, rifle or carbine. I'm going to shoot another string with my 653 or 652 clone. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 9:09:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Ok, here's my 2 targets. Looks like mike_nds won't after all sent me the final prize. Lol. But I had fun and learned something new about my very seldom fired retro rifles. I took out my Colt XM16E1 and Model 653 clones. Prior to today I've never fired them past the 25M sighting in target sight in. Big difference! I did a 10rd sight in for each rifle first, then made one dope adjustment. Then the 20rds. Here are my entry's:
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