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Posted: 11/18/2014 11:57:43 PM EDT
I'd never heard of the GX models, and although there isn't a lot of information here about them, there's at least a pic of the lower receiver markings.

Also informed commentary about the previously noted LRP conference, quite interesting stuff if your interests run past shooting and extend to moving and communicating.

Clickie here
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 12:38:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for that link. We actually ran a watered down course for ROTC Cadets that we called "Recondo" in my LRS unit, but it was nothing like the one in Na Trang, if you ever study the Recondo School training schedule.

When a course finishes with several real world patrols, you know it's something unique and very practical.  That's the way they ran Recondo in Vietnam.

I would highly recommend Recondo, by Larry Chambers. Also, Death in the A Shau Valley

 

Link Posted: 11/19/2014 8:21:26 AM EDT
[#2]
I concur - both great books. Must reads for retroheads IMO. The real Recondo school was apparently a no-nonsense, real world, practical training regimen. No coddling involved... LRRPS were very successful in the early days of the war - the Recondo school was a reflection of that success.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#3]
SF developed and ran the school, based on their special reconnaissance experiences from early on in the war before big Army green machine arrived.  1st Brigade of the 101st was one of the early US Army conventional units to deploy there, and they soon realized they needed a dedicated reconnaissance capability at the Brigade level.

The Army LRP units were actually a 1950's creation in Germany for the Fulda Gap, so that a long range surveillance force could be emplaced along the MSR's, and provide early warning for motorized and armored columns entering the West as part of a Soviet spearhead invasion.

I met an SF officer this summer who stood up 101st's first LRRP Detachment, after having already been in Vietnam since the early 1960's.  He did 6 tours there, and retired out of SF after a full career spanning the globe.

When he was in SF, he trained a lot of Chinese mercenaries, who were then recruited by SOG for better pay, which made him upset, since SOG was basically getting them killed at an alarming rate.  He couldn't pay them what SOG offered, and they could only see the short-term benefits for their families in pay, which was sent home ASAP.

Anyway, there are a lot of basic lessons that Recondo embodied, which were watered down and lost in subsequent generations, unless you really studied what they were doing back then.  They covered cave man tech up to mission planning and coordination with air assets, deception for insertion and extraction, and a list of skill sets that were 100% practical and mission-oriented, versus Army BS, which is 100% fluff and duff.

The linked article in the OP shows some of the unique evidences of that, including the fact that there weren't enough slots in the school for as many LRRP's that needed it.  The modern day closest equivalent of this course is run by the Ranger Training Brigade at Benning, and was known as LRSLC when I was in.  I think they have re-named it.  It stood for Long Range Surveillance Leader's Course, and taught most of the same skill sets as Recondo did.

A lot of the Recce community TTP's come from coalition partners in Europe.  The Brits were some of the best soldiers when it comes to Recce.  There is also a school in Germany that teaches these things to coalition SF and recon units, with a multinational cadre composed of SF and Recon NCO instructors who love the skill sets, and are dedicated professionals.  Both LRSLC and the school in Germany were staples for NCO's in LRS when I was in.  They are far more appropriate schools for the job than Ranger School or the SF Q-Course, although all the NCO's in LRS were tabbed in my unit.  We were actually 190% over-strength on Ranger-qualified NCO's in Lima Company, 52nd Infantry, Long Range Surveillance, before General Crocker deactivated us.

Motivation, reenlistment, and retention was much too high for big Army to allow.  Can't have highly skilled soldiers who actually love and enjoy their jobs.  We actually had a company mourning formation before we parted ways to the four winds.  Most of the guys that stayed in went to SF and other units well outside of the conventional Army, which was common in Vietnam as well.  A few SF Teams had guys that didn't like it when a LRRP SSG showed up with more operational experience than them.  Guys went back and forth even, gaining their own recon on what commanders were GTG in several communities ranging from LRRP's, SF, to SOG.

I learned early on that leadership personalities make a good unit, not the type of unit.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 5:17:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Good info. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 8:02:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Yeah - I have some great pics of LRP units in Germany with M1952 packs, French Lizard camo and M14s. Recondo came about as a result of LRRP teams success in SE Asia however from what I understand, essentially establishing an in-country school to bring promising candidates up to speed. After the war some of those guys advised the PRAL teams in EL Salvador, setting up a similar school. You're right about the Brits too - very good at Recce. Don't forget the LRDG during WWII...
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 8:36:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah - I have some great pics of LRP units in Germany with M1952 packs, French Lizard camo and M14s. Recondo came about as a result of LRRP teams success in SE Asia however from what I understand, essentially establishing an in-country school to bring promising candidates up to speed. After the war some of those guys advised the PRAL teams in EL Salvador, setting up a similar school. You're right about the Brits too - very good at Recce. Don't forget the LRDG during WWII...
View Quote



Who could forget these guys. Legend has it they destroyed more Luftwaffe aircraft in North Africa ( on the ground with incendiary .303 from those Vickers MG's ) than the RAF did the entire war.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 8:44:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for that link. We actually ran a watered down course for ROTC Cadets that we called "Recondo" in my LRS unit, but it was nothing like the one in Na Trang, if you ever study the Recondo School training schedule.

When a course finishes with several real world patrols, you know it's something unique and very practical.  That's the way they ran Recondo in Vietnam.

I would highly recommend Recondo, by Larry Chambers. Also, Death in the A Shau Valley

http://i43.tower.com/images/mm102155291/recondo-lrrps-in-101st-airborne-larry-chambers-paperback-cover-art.jpg  http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ikHjZAG5L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

View Quote


Two other great LRRP veteran authors to look for are, Gary Linderer and Reynel Martinez. Several fantastic books have come from the 101st LRRP's.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 9:51:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I learned early on that leadership personalities make a good unit, not the type of unit.
View Quote


Ain't that the truth.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 10:01:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I'd never heard of the GX models, and although there isn't a lot of information here about them, there's at least a pic of the lower receiver markings.

Also informed commentary about the previously noted LRP conference, quite interesting stuff if your interests run past shooting and extend to moving and communicating.

Clickie here
View Quote

Andouille, you said that you had never heard of the GX's. Certainly, you have heard of the 607 mentioned often here in RETRO.  The 607 is/was the GX5857.  There also is the GX5856, though I am not certain what the common name of it is. I think it might have been the dissipitator.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 9:21:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Andouille, you said that you had never heard of the GX's. Certainly, you have heard of the 607 mentioned often here in RETRO.  The 607 is/was the GX5857.  There also is the GX5856, though I am not certain what the common name of it is. I think it might have been the dissipitator.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd never heard of the GX models, and although there isn't a lot of information here about them, there's at least a pic of the lower receiver markings.

Also informed commentary about the previously noted LRP conference, quite interesting stuff if your interests run past shooting and extend to moving and communicating.

Clickie here

Andouille, you said that you had never heard of the GX's. Certainly, you have heard of the 607 mentioned often here in RETRO.  The 607 is/was the GX5857.  There also is the GX5856, though I am not certain what the common name of it is. I think it might have been the dissipitator.


My wife will cheerfully tell you that I'm fairly clueless about most everything.  

But thanks for the clairification.  Frankly my main interest in the retro stuff is limited to what I saw or used myself, "big army" stuff, so quite often the finer points of the limited issue or use weapons gets a quick glance and then flushed from the memory banks.  My bad.  Certainly a lot of folks here take great interest in those and that's a good thing.
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