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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:42:38 AM EDT
In 1967,Portugal got a Cadillac Gage V-100 Commando,some changes were done to it and renaded as the "Commando Chaimite",it was tested and well liked specialy by the paratroopers that desperately need one for the operations in a nerer-endind African colonial war,after tested it was it was decided that the paratroopers were not to have it as wee had no airplane capable of transporting,in turn they were to be used by the army infantry.
The "Commando Chaimite" (after it was just Chaimite) was made by Cadillac Gage and manufactured and commercialized (in Portugal) by "Sociedade Luso-Americana de Representações SARL" (also Sociedade Luso Brasileira de Viaturas e Equipamentos SARL – BRAVIA”). Cadillac Gage also made the Stoner 63,it would be interesting to know it the Stoner 63 was ever considered for commercialization and/or production,for us,by eny of the parties involved. The weapon came in 5.56 but we were using the 7.62,we were in a war and already manufacturing the G3 under licence and there was also the issue of who had the commercialization licence for the Stoner 63...this needs more research... V-100 “Commando” / Cadillac-Gage /Stoner 63 photo "Commando Chaimite" prototype,a V-100 with a extended rear section http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-o-comeco-esteve-para-ser-na-forca-aerea/ |
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The prototype was manufactured by the government owned "Oficinas Gerais de Material de Engenharia" (General Engineering Machine Shops),with the supervision of an American engineer and a group of skilled workers,possibly from Cadillac Gage,he was later on went under trial and convicted in the U.S. for this non official transfer of technology.
http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-v-200-parte-i/ http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-v-200-parte-ii-conclusao/ |
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Neat.
Any idea how many total were made and of those how many were lost in action? They don't look very effective against land mines. |
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IIRC the USAF used some for base security during VietNam. The current ASV (Armored Security Vehicle) was used extensively in Iraq by the USA.
CD |
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"Cuban" APC in Heartbreak Ridge. I always knew that was not a BTR-60 or 70 http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/13/HRAKM-4.jpg/600px-HRAKM-4.jpg Was never sure about that artillery tube being kosher. either BTW, what does Chaimite translate to in Englese? Or is is Inglese? View Quote "Chaimite " is in Gaza,Moçambique.The name is known for the batle that ended with the capture of Gungunhana,the emperor of the empire of Gaza in 1895. The name "Chaimite" was then used to give homage to that generation of soldiers. |
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I wouldn't mind having one of those ATV's to go and play with. Probably get a lot of funny looks from the neighbors. |
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"Chaimite " is in Gaza,Moçambique.The name is known for the batle that ended with the capture of Gungunhana,the emperor of the empire of Gaza in 1895. The name "Chaimite" was then used to give homage to that generation of soldiers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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"Cuban" APC in Heartbreak Ridge. I always knew that was not a BTR-60 or 70 http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/13/HRAKM-4.jpg/600px-HRAKM-4.jpg Was never sure about that artillery tube being kosher. either BTW, what does Chaimite translate to in Englese? Or is is Inglese? "Chaimite " is in Gaza,Moçambique.The name is known for the batle that ended with the capture of Gungunhana,the emperor of the empire of Gaza in 1895. The name "Chaimite" was then used to give homage to that generation of soldiers. Amerio, my Portuguese is non-existent. Is this pretty much the same as your wiki link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaimite_(Mozambique) |
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Amerio, my Portuguese is non-existent. Is this pretty much the same as your wiki link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaimite_(Mozambique) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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"Cuban" APC in Heartbreak Ridge. I always knew that was not a BTR-60 or 70 http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/13/HRAKM-4.jpg/600px-HRAKM-4.jpg Was never sure about that artillery tube being kosher. either BTW, what does Chaimite translate to in Englese? Or is is Inglese? "Chaimite " is in Gaza,Moçambique.The name is known for the batle that ended with the capture of Gungunhana,the emperor of the empire of Gaza in 1895. The name "Chaimite" was then used to give homage to that generation of soldiers. Amerio, my Portuguese is non-existent. Is this pretty much the same as your wiki link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaimite_(Mozambique) Its the same. |
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If you can access Google Earth, by entering the coordinates 30 04'38.14"N 89 51'01.06"W that should take you to a repair facility on US Highway 90 east of New Orleans now labeled as Textron but once up on a time had Cadilac Gage signage.
And, if you switch to Street View and rotate the view to the north, you can see some vehicles in various stages of repair parked along the fence. |
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Henk Visser - NWM
" I had contacted Gene Stoner in America, and we became good friends. This was in 1962 I believe. I told him everything that happened in Europe. There was a sales director named Paul Van Hee from Cadillac Gage; the company that had paid for the development of the Stoner Rifle in Newport Beach, California. Nothing could be done without Cadillac Gage over in Detroit being involved. I went there, and in the end I managed to make the right contacts. Around that time, I sold NWM in Holland to a German group, the Quandt Group, that was Mauser, BMW, Mercedes, Nico Pyrotechnik, etc.; the whole thing. I became the director for their military business. They also had a product that was barbed wire with razor wire on it and the wire is steel based. If a tank runs into this concertina, it wraps around the tracks. The Americans were very interested in it because this razor wire - you really don't want to touch it. Cadillac Gage got the contract to make that wire in the States, and we got the rights for the Stoner rifle system in the whole world outside of America and Canada." "SAR: You had the rights to the Stoner 63 outside of the United States? Visser: Outside of United States and Canada. We had a very optimistic view of our opportunities because we and Cadillac Gage thought that the US Marines would adopt the system. We took the Stoner Rifle to Ecuador, Chile, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany and, Israel. I went everywhere. We spent millions, and I told the top people in my company, "This is it. This is what the soldiers want." I never told the customers that - I simply showed them the quality and let them test the rifle. Standardization, a cheap machine gun...the main parts are all the same. Maybe I overdid it a little bit at times. We had the Inspector General of all of the forces in Holland and his Royal Highness Prince Bernard; he had seen it and liked it, and he tried to push it in NATO." NWM,fom Holland,had the rights to the Stoner 63 outside of the United States,but due to the dynamics of war production and the Stoner 63 being a 5.56 mm,we were manufacturing the G3 and the 7.62 mm ammo,manufacturing a new caliber and a new weapon would add more stress as troops had to be trained to use a new system. Even if we had got the rights from NWM,for national production,it would have been unpractical as the G3 worked fine and a post war investment in a new weapon would have been economically unjustifiable. NWM also had the rights for the CETME,excluding Spain, Portugal and Germany. http://www.smallarmsoftheworld.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1724 http://www.smallarmsoftheworld.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=140 |
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NWM and Henk Visser should have been the ones to deal with the ArmaLite AR-10,instead of the Artillerie Inrichtingen...things would have been very different.
"The AR-10 was our competitor, the government plant Artillerie Inrichtingen (AI) at Hembrug, in Holland. They got so upset that we had the Stoner 63A license - first we had the CETME rifle then the Stoner - that when the Director of AI read in TIME Magazine about this lightweight rifle from ArmaLite, he and his secretary got on a plane and flew to Costa Mesa to make a deal on the AR-10. He was not liked by the Dutch generals because of the way he treated them. In reality, the AR-10 was a fantastic rifle for 7.62 NATO. Director Jungeling invited all the top generals to his plant and they were getting coffee and cake, and while they were eating he reached next to his chair and holds up an AR-10 and announces, "Gentlemen, this is your new rifle! This will be the future!" Those generals decided at that moment in their minds that nobody was going to adopt the AR-10. They didn't want to be told by a civilian what would be the new Army rifle. He killed it with that. It's a very sad story because it was a good rifle. They wanted to do their own testing and make their own decision and like most generals, they do not like anyone telling them what they will have for weapons." Jungeling..."Gentlemen, this is your new rifle! This will be the future!" Henk Visser..."This is it. This is what the soldiers want." I never told the customers that - I simply showed them the quality and let them test the rifle." |
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This is one of the coolest threads I have seen posted in a long while.
Thanks to the OP and all those who contributed. |
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The Army minister,Cornell Joaquim da Luz Cunha,contacts retired Major João Batista de Souza Donas-Bôtto (that had connections to the industry and military equipment acquisition) to a office meeting,the Army minister had been asked by the Minister of Defence if we were in conditions to manufacture something similar to the Cadillac-Gage V-100 “Commando",if yes he would put the state owned General Engineering Machine Shops at disposal for manufacturing.
In July 1966,the Army Chief of Staff sended a secret confidencial communication military commanders,in Angola, Moçambique e Guiné,informing that a procurement budget was available for the acquisition of a armored car or a armored personnel carrier,to evaluate which of the was was a priority as they could only get one. An procurement plan was established and contacts with Cadillac-Gage were made for the acquisition,but as with other equipment at the time (as with the ArmaLite AR-10 as it was an American patent) the United States state Department denied the deal as it feared it would be used in non NATO operations. Retired Major João Batista de Souza Donas-Bôtto goes to the U.S.,Brasil (where he had a house) and to Portugal to create the conditions to start the project. In March 1967 he starts a company,the “BRAVIA SARL, Sociedade Luso-Brasileira de Viaturas e Equipamentos” and and soon plans for a V-100 “Commando" are plans are concluded. In 1967 arives in Lisbon a merchant ship from Spain with a precious cargo on board,an armored personnel carrier made in the U.S.,discreetly unloaded by army and company personnel and and stored in the General Engineering Machine Shops facility. After small modifications,the carrier prototype “Commando Chaimite” was ready for a demonstration in the Campo de Tiro de Alcochete (Alcochete shooting range). Present at this are the paratrooper officer that concluded (in a report) that based in their combat experience this would be a viacle that would make possible to overcome multiple operational obstacles as give the paratroopers greater operational possibilities. The “Commando Chaimite” project started as a solution found by Donas-Botto and Joaquim da Luz Cunha (Army representative) to the U.S. military equipment embargo. With an V-100 “Commando",the precious cargo on board a Spanish merchant ship that arived in Lisbon in 1967,but also with the technical plans for the V-100 brought by an American engineer,Gerald Larson (later on went under trial and convicted in the U.S. for this non official transfer of technology),hired by Donas-Botto and foreign acquired parts. Ultimately,it was the operational nature of the airborn paratroopers that killed it for the Air Force as they had no airplanes capable of transporting the "Chaimite" during airborn operations and the priority was given to the Army for its land based operations. With the "Chaimite" name,Major João Batista de Souza Donas-Bôtto wanted to pay homage the Portuguese troops that fought in Africa in the late XIX (19) century. Donas-Botto,Army school cadet,1943. http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-o-comeco-esteve-para-ser-na-forca-aerea/ http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-v-200-parte-i/ |
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Cadillac-Gage chief engineer, Gerald Larson.
In the indictment, Marshall is charged wilh sending one ship- met of machine gun a m m u n i - tion chutes, one shipment of prismatic vision blocks and three shipments of military automotive, differentials to Portugal between December 1968 and June 1969. All are listed as restricted items. Prismatic vision blocks are used as windows in tanks and armored cars. The military automotive differentials are designed to give greater traction. Ibershof says each shipment of such materiel requires a license or written approval from the U.S. Stale Department. According to the indictment, none of the restricted munitions shipments had been approved by the State Department. The incident began, according to Ibershof, when the Portuguese government ordered five amphibious armored cars from the Cadillac Gage Co. in 1964. Located in suburban Warren, Cadillac Gage is the only American company producing the armored cars, Ibershof said. Ibershof said the State Department turned down the Portuguese export request in early 1964. In February 19C6, according lo Ibershof, Cadillac Gage's chief engineer, Gerald Larson, resigned only to turn up in 1967 in the employ of Bravia, a Portuguese firm which was set up to manufacture a prototype of the American armored cars. Ibershof said the Portuguese managed to obtain one of the armored cars in Germany in 1%7 and soon began turning out models of its own. Ibershof said lie doesn't knosv why the restricted vehicle was in Germany nor whether it was in the bands of German or American military forces al the lime the Portuguese obtained it. But even after Bravia began manufacturing Ihe armored vehicle, the Portuguese firm still required certain parts manufactured only in the United States, Ibershof said. Larson traveled to America and reached an agreement under w h i c h which Marshall would export the forbidden car- mored car components. Ibershof declined to discuss the role of either Larson or Cadillac Gage Co., and would not say why Larson-repuledly back in Detroit-had not been charged with Marshall. According to Ibershof, "All of (he shipments and their circumstances are slil! under investigation." Ibershof said he will seek a w a r r a n t for Marshall's arrest. |
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The 1965 American export licence for the Portuguese order for 50 V-100 units in the value of 1.768.000,00 US dollars,this licence was later revoked,this gave origin to the "Chaimite" project.
http://www.operacional.pt/chaimite-o-comeco-esteve-para-ser-na-forca-aerea/ |
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Gee, thanks! Now I've been searching the military vehicle sites looking through classified ads for a V100. Even though I can't afford one.... I did find a really cool river patrol boat...(PBR Streetgang? )
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River Patrol Boat? PBR Mk1/MkII? Grafton LSSC with twin Mercs? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Gee, thanks! Now I've been searching the military vehicle sites looking through classified ads for a V100. Even though I can't afford one.... I did find a really cool river patrol boat...(PBR Streetgang? ) No Bro, twin Detroit diesel V8"s. I believe this one is a Mk II.... http://www.armyjeeps.net/1968PBR-2X/PBR.htm It's not priced much higher than the going rate of the V100's.....but I could drive the Commando to work. |
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