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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:06:22 PM EDT
Is it impossible to find a 12.5" lightweight profile, carbine length gas system barrel with a .625" FSB? I have spent the last 2 hours searching and have come up with a big fat goose egg. If I can't find one, I am going to have to purchase something that ADCO can whittle down which is going to add around $200 in shop services (on top of the $260-300 that a new barrel will cost me). Help an OCD cloner out!!!
For reference, here is my IDF clone. It had the Noveske CHF N4 12.5" pictured but I soon discovered that the FSB was canted so badly, I could not zero it on an A1 upper.  |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:19:29 PM EDT
[#1]
how about a DD barrel ?
https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/12-5-inch-chf-barrels/12-5-5-56mm-lightweight-carbine-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:19:36 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:30:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Was the index pin tight in the receiver? Just asking as it is a IDF build. Could you have possibly overtightened barrel nut and canted FSB. This does happen. You could aslo repair with hand reamer if everything is as it should be. Noveske is know for high quality only reason I asked questions.
Think the first thing I'd do is re-torque barrel after carefully visually inspecting what I have. If index pin is loose in receiver a shim would be a fairly easy fix. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:46:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how about a DD barrel ? https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/12-5-inch-chf-barrels/12-5-5-56mm-lightweight-carbine-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html They don't offer that model any longer. They have moved to using a .750" FSB.
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:47:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistorySee my post above.
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:55:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was the index pin tight in the receiver? Just asking as it is a IDF build. Could you have possibly overtightened barrel nut and canted FSB. This does happen. You could aslo repair with hand reamer if everything is as it should be. Noveske is know for high quality only reason I asked questions. Think the first thing I'd do is re-torque barrel after carefully visually inspecting what I have. If index pin is loose in receiver a shim would be a fairly easy fix. The A1 upper is tight. I tested it with another FSB barrel that I have and everything lined up perfectly. Also, on the Noveske, the markings on the barrel should line up with the FSB. On this one, the markings are noticeably to the left of the FSB (when viewed from above). I wonder if any vendors have old stock of the DD 12.5" LW model with the .625 FSB (linked to by the two people above).
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Posted: 10/14/2014 1:21:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The A1 upper is tight. I tested it with another FSB barrel that I have and everything lined up perfectly. Also, on the Noveske, the markings on the barrel should line up with the FSB. On this one, the markings are noticeably to the left of the FSB (when viewed from above). I wonder if any vendors have old stock of the DD 12.5" LW model with the .625 FSB (linked to by the two people above). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Was the index pin tight in the receiver? Just asking as it is a IDF build. Could you have possibly overtightened barrel nut and canted FSB. This does happen. You could aslo repair with hand reamer if everything is as it should be. Noveske is know for high quality only reason I asked questions. Think the first thing I'd do is re-torque barrel after carefully visually inspecting what I have. If index pin is loose in receiver a shim would be a fairly easy fix. The A1 upper is tight. I tested it with another FSB barrel that I have and everything lined up perfectly. Also, on the Noveske, the markings on the barrel should line up with the FSB. On this one, the markings are noticeably to the left of the FSB (when viewed from above). I wonder if any vendors have old stock of the DD 12.5" LW model with the .625 FSB (linked to by the two people above). if DD doesn't have it in stock ADCO shows it in stock https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/productLine_q.cfm?brand=Daniel%20Defense&product_category=Barrels |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 1:32:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See my post above. Quote HistoryQuoted:
See my post above. You'd think they'd take it off the site if they don't offer it anymore. 
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Posted: 10/14/2014 6:10:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if DD doesn't have it in stock ADCO shows it in stock https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/productLine_q.cfm?brand=Daniel%20Defense&product_category=Barrels Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Was the index pin tight in the receiver? Just asking as it is a IDF build. Could you have possibly overtightened barrel nut and canted FSB. This does happen. You could aslo repair with hand reamer if everything is as it should be. Noveske is know for high quality only reason I asked questions. Think the first thing I'd do is re-torque barrel after carefully visually inspecting what I have. If index pin is loose in receiver a shim would be a fairly easy fix. The A1 upper is tight. I tested it with another FSB barrel that I have and everything lined up perfectly. Also, on the Noveske, the markings on the barrel should line up with the FSB. On this one, the markings are noticeably to the left of the FSB (when viewed from above). I wonder if any vendors have old stock of the DD 12.5" LW model with the .625 FSB (linked to by the two people above). if DD doesn't have it in stock ADCO shows it in stock https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/productLine_q.cfm?brand=Daniel%20Defense&product_category=Barrels I posted already in ADCO' Industry sub forum. They reported the product image being incorrect and that the DD 12.5 LW barrels they have in stock are of the .750" FSB variety. Btw, Viper... What are you running on your IDF build? |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 6:49:39 AM EDT
[#10]
The original IDF barrels were cut down 20" barrels from M16A1s. That's easy, but expensive, and I have yet to see anyone do one right.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 7:56:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original IDF barrels were cut down 20" barrels from M16A1s. That's easy, but expensive, and I have yet to see anyone do one right. I found that out a while back when researching the build. How did they address the need for the shoulder that the flash hider needs on a pencil barrel? |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 8:08:45 AM EDT
[#12]
That's not so important since the handguard will hold it in place.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 10:42:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I posted already in ADCO' Industry sub forum. They reported the product image being incorrect and that the DD 12.5 LW barrels they have in stock are of the .750" FSB variety. Btw, Viper... What are you running on your IDF build? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Was the index pin tight in the receiver? Just asking as it is a IDF build. Could you have possibly overtightened barrel nut and canted FSB. This does happen. You could aslo repair with hand reamer if everything is as it should be. Noveske is know for high quality only reason I asked questions. Think the first thing I'd do is re-torque barrel after carefully visually inspecting what I have. If index pin is loose in receiver a shim would be a fairly easy fix. The A1 upper is tight. I tested it with another FSB barrel that I have and everything lined up perfectly. Also, on the Noveske, the markings on the barrel should line up with the FSB. On this one, the markings are noticeably to the left of the FSB (when viewed from above). I wonder if any vendors have old stock of the DD 12.5" LW model with the .625 FSB (linked to by the two people above). if DD doesn't have it in stock ADCO shows it in stock https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/productLine_q.cfm?brand=Daniel%20Defense&product_category=Barrels I posted already in ADCO' Industry sub forum. They reported the product image being incorrect and that the DD 12.5 LW barrels they have in stock are of the .750" FSB variety. Btw, Viper... What are you running on your IDF build? i had a colt 6520 barrel cut down to 13" by adco. it worked out good , lightweight 1:7 twist , non f marked fsb. i was thinking about having an m16 barrel chopped but i wanted the 1:7 twist instead of the 1:12 of the m16 barrel. i took my idf clone apart  i needed the 604 upper receiver for a guu-5p build.
i am putting it back together as a 653ish clone though 
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Posted: 10/14/2014 11:11:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did they address the need for the shoulder that the flash hider needs on a pencil barrel? not really needed.. I had a post ban Colt 6530 barrel threaded for a FH and it fit just fine with a peel washer. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 2:49:46 PM EDT
[#15]
What about a cut down McKay barrel?
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Posted: 10/14/2014 3:19:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Sometime back I bought a short upper off of the EE. I was very disappointed when it arrived because it was in rough condition, compared to the written discription. Turned out being a diamond in the rough, as it is the upper that had an early bend, carbon steel, carbine gas tube. (evidently they are rarer than hens teeth). The front sight base was a GM/hydramatic if I recall correctly. (as determined by the guru's in "retro"). After posting pics in the forum, the general concensus was that it was an IDF upper. Unfortunately, I cut the barrel down to 10" to use on my 607. If it was indeed an IDF upper, the issue of no shoulder to buttress the frt. sight to was not an issue. There actually is/was a small step, approx. .012 if I remember correctly. It was enough to trap the front cap and sight.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 3:31:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did they address the need for the shoulder that the flash hider needs on a pencil barrel? There's enough thickness at that point for it to work ok. There's no shoulder for the handguard ring but it works without it, that's just for convenience. The real way to make one for a clone is to just take a spec A1 or A2 barrel and cut it down which is how the originals were made. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 4:43:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about a cut down McKay barrel? |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 5:20:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is exactly the route I am currently exploring! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What about a cut down McKay barrel? The originals were made from A1 barrels, but you could also make one from an A2 barrel as the thicker parts would get cut off or turned down anyway. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 6:08:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The originals were made from A1 barrels, but you could also make one from an A2 barrel as the thicker parts would get cut off or turned down anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about a cut down McKay barrel? The originals were made from A1 barrels, but you could also make one from an A2 barrel as the thicker parts would get cut off or turned down anyway. I going down the path of a McKay 20" A1 with 1/7 twist cut down to 12.5". On paper this looks promising. I spoke with John Thomas today and he said he would accept the job as long as the McKay barrel met the proper OD spec where the FSB will be mounted. I'm pretty excited!
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Posted: 10/14/2014 7:03:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Get a Doublestar barrel (1/9, but who cares) with a .625 FSB.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/carbine-barrels-prod23131.aspx Send to John Thomas to cut it down. Should be under $300 for everything. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 7:07:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a Doublestar barrel (1/9, but who cares) with a .625 FSB. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/carbine-barrels-prod23131.aspx Send to John Thomas to cut it down. Should be under $300 for everything. Profile is more correct with the McKay and the price isn't much more.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 7:09:14 PM EDT
[#23]
It will be one of the few proper IDF 12" clones that I am aware of, since most people cut down a 16" barrel or bought a DD when they still were small under the FSB. The profile of a proper conversion is unique... and that is cool.
I'm excited to see it. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 7:14:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Me too!
For reference, I'm going for the top-most barrel assembly:  Just need to find a hand guard end cap... |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 8:08:24 PM EDT
[#25]
well hail.......I went downstairs to look for and snap a pic of the barrel that came off the short upper I referred to earlier. I can't find the darned thing. Maybe it's over at the shop in my box there.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:17:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: well hail.......I went downstairs to look for and snap a pic of the barrel that came off the short upper I referred to earlier. I can't find the darned thing. Maybe it's over at the shop in my box there. A SURE sign of advanced RBRD. Having so much crap you have to wade through looking for things or you just loose them outright!  |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:47:27 PM EDT
[#27]
I was thinking the actual barrel length on the Menusar barrels was closer to 13", they're cut right behind the gas port of a rifle barrel.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:49:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A SURE sign of advanced RBRD. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: well hail.......I went downstairs to look for and snap a pic of the barrel that came off the short upper I referred to earlier. I can't find the darned thing. Maybe it's over at the shop in my box there. A SURE sign of advanced RBRD. Having so much crap you have to wade through looking for things or you just loose them outright! I'm right there with you. I just spent 45 minutes (going through my spare parts bins, drawers, bags, shelves and tool boxes) looking for a specific crush washer to sent to John Thomas. The more "organized" I get, the harder it is for me to find things. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:52:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was thinking the actual barrel length on the Menusar barrels was closer to 13", they're cut right behind the gas port of a rifle barrel. Either the dude that runs the IDF website or the IDF armorer that sometimes posts in the IDF/KISS sub forum, confirmed that it was 12.5" (or about 13" with the A1 flash hider). When John Thomas cuts my barrel, I'll ask him what the actual length turns out to be.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:56:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either the dude that runs the IDF website or the IDF armorer that sometimes posts in the IDF/KISS sub forum, confirmed that it was 12.5" (or about 13" with the A1 flash hider). When John Thomas cuts my barrel, I'll ask him what the actual length turns out to be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking the actual barrel length on the Menusar barrels was closer to 13", they're cut right behind the gas port of a rifle barrel. Either the dude that runs the IDF website or the IDF armorer that sometimes posts in the IDF/KISS sub forum, confirmed that it was 12.5" (or about 13" with the A1 flash hider). When John Thomas cuts my barrel, I'll ask him what the actual length turns out to be. RBR says 13", so that's what I went with when JT did mine. |
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Posted: 10/15/2014 3:43:23 AM EDT
[#31]
i think this pic was posted in the idf thread
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Posted: 10/15/2014 6:57:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i think this pic was posted in the idf thread http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/1iviper/IMG_3287_zps44abec03.jpg I'm seeing that as 12.5". I'm guesstimating 32 cm on barrel length.
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Posted: 10/15/2014 10:07:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm seeing that as 12.5". I'm guesstimating 32 cm on barrel length. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i think this pic was posted in the idf thread http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/1iviper/IMG_3287_zps44abec03.jpg I'm seeing that as 12.5". I'm guesstimating 32 cm on barrel length. I measured the bore length on mine at 13". I would not recommend cutting it to a specific length, but instead using the flange behind the gas block as an estimate of where to put the muzzle threads. I shaved that area to .620" and then cut a .5" shank to where the flange had the correct profile for the end of a barrel. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=603790 |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 12:45:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm seeing that as 12.5". I'm guesstimating 32 cm on barrel length. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i think this pic was posted in the idf thread http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/1iviper/IMG_3287_zps44abec03.jpg I'm seeing that as 12.5". I'm guesstimating 32 cm on barrel length. About 12.6 the way I figured it. RBR is wrong. I love the site, but it's really like 13" with a moderator. Absolutely the best balanced carbine looks - wise you ask me. I bet it handles perfectly. 
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Posted: 10/17/2014 1:57:05 AM EDT
[#35]
i don't know how dead nuts accurate a folding wooden tape measure from the front of the receiver is
i always took that pic to be about 12.8" or so. you would think after all these years we would have a more difinitive answer 
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Posted: 10/17/2014 12:03:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Pay close attention to the barrel diameter where the front lug of the FSB will be located.
Not all barrels are large enough at that spot due to the taper under the handguards. I had to knurl the area to bring to OD up to .625" so I'd get a tight fit. This is a cut down A2 barrel. 
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Posted: 10/17/2014 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pay close attention to the barrel diameter where the front lug of the FSB will be located. Not all barrels are large enough at that spot due to the taper under the handguards. I had to knurl the area to bring to OD up to .625" so I'd get a tight fit. This is a cut down A2 barrel. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IDF_barrel.JPG Mike is correct, here's the low down on it with measurements: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=612767 |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 12:17:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Y'all are making me nervous about this. Since I don't have calipers here.
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Posted: 10/17/2014 1:22:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Not sure if this helps, but DSG is closing out 16" CHF DD lightweight barrels with the .625 dimension at the gas port. $209.
I wrote customer service because the DD website shows .750 diameter and they said they are on clearance because DD has changed the spec, but that theirs are the .625 size. Link to barrel. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 5:57:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if this helps, but DSG is closing out 16" CHF DD lightweight barrels with the .625 dimension at the gas port. $209. I wrote customer service because the DD website shows .750 diameter and they said they are on clearance because DD has changed the spec, but that theirs are the .625 size. Link to barrel. I saw that a few days ago, but decided to go all in with the way they were done for the genuine IDF's. I'm already at $400 and I expect that number to climb after John Thomas has all the ordered parts in front of him and can take measurements.
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