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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:04:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't know if it helps but the E1 didn't have the ring either, they had 10" barrels though.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:07:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Well, heading toward an E2, but if it says the early version had no ring, I was just wondering if anyone had evidence of such a gun. I think I'd actually like it without the ring better, but who knows. I better decide before it gets silver soldered on at a later time.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:26:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't know if it helps but the E1 didn't have the ring either, they had 10" barrels though. Which is why it didn't have one. The grenade ring is for the XM148 grenade launcher and the XM148 is too big to mount on the E1. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 4:18:41 AM EDT
[#4]
So anyone found anything?
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Posted: 7/9/2014 5:11:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Oddly enough, this picture in the Real Deal thread at the top of the page shows an E2 with a CGL-4 grenade launcher that has the barrel chopped, and minus the grenade ring.
I looked through several pages of that thread and didn't see any other E2's without the grenade ring. It was standard equipment for that rifle, so any time you don't see it, it would almost have to be a field mod. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 6:16:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oddly enough, this picture in the Real Deal thread at the top of the page shows an E2 with a CGL-4 grenade launcher that has the barrel chopped, and minus the grenade ring. I looked through several pages of that thread and didn't see any other E2's without the grenade ring. It was standard equipment for that rifle, so any time you don't see it, it would almost have to be a field mod. Are you sure? Looks like a normal XM177E2 to me. I know I've seen pics - check the archives. They were of builds though, not real deal. The XM177E2 grenade ring was standard, so you're going to have a hard time finding a pic of a real one. Why not just contact Brick and buy one? There was another thread recently from someone here who was making them. I would not build an E2 w/o one - they just don't look right to me, but that's your call. I agree with 57Octane - removing it was likely a field mod. Maybe lost when moderator was removed? |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 8:43:05 AM EDT
[#7]
I took the challenge of trying to find a pic of said weapon years ago. I have only seen 2 pics in 7 years of such a beast......First pic was definitely a Gau-5 USAF, so no go.
Second pic I just came across the other day was from John Plasters book I think maybe it was SOG. Given it's Plaster's book I would think it would be mostly of Army Lrrps, GB's, Rangers, etc. Unless the weapon belonged to a FAC. I thought I had that saved, but cannot find it. If someone has the book, it's a BW pic with guns leaning against a wall or something. Then there's this: 
ETA: Here's the SOG pic. Still could be a FAC carried weapon. But judging from the homemade sling and corded grip, I think it's a Lrrp or other Army fast mover's weapon. RTUtah would probably know better: 
And what the heck, here's the USAF photo, 
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Posted: 7/9/2014 8:59:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Hey that's a start, reason I wanted no ring was that I kinda like the no ring look better.
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Posted: 7/9/2014 11:31:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Either way is correct. The later models came with and without the grenade ring. Mine has the grenade ring. That is my preference.
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Posted: 7/9/2014 4:49:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you sure? Looks like a normal XM177E2 to me. Whoops, I guess I didn't look close enough. The ring sort of blends in with the grenade launcher's front mount. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 5:17:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took the challenge of trying to find a pic of said weapon years ago. I have only seen 2 pics in 7 years of such a beast......First pic was definitely a Gau-5 USAF, so no go. Second pic I just came across the other day was from John Plasters book I think maybe it was SOG. Given it's Plaster's book I would think it would be mostly of Army Lrrps, GB's, Rangers, etc. Unless the weapon belonged to a FAC. I thought I had that saved, but cannot find it. If someone has the book, it's a BW pic with guns leaning against a wall or something. Then there's this: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/stabo_zps82b08107.jpg ETA: Here's the SOG pic. Still could be a FAC carried weapon. But judging from the homemade sling and corded grip, I think it's a Lrrp or other Army fast mover's weapon. RTUtah would probably know better: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/IMG_2890_zps9d4bfb82.jpg And what the heck, here's the USAF photo, http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/BobLaPointe_zpsd349e4b6.jpg Top pic looks like a LRRP. The stock looks anodized grey instead of coated. Since most XM177E2's went to the SF troops this may be an XM177E1 with a replacement barrel rather than an E2 without a grenade ring. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 6:34:28 PM EDT
[#12]
These pictures help a lot! I'm in the same boat. I have a 12.5" barrel and a Brick moderator and grenade ring. Using the ring with a washer really pushes the OAL out way more than I imagined it would. I actually considered having the barrel shortened so my OAL would be closer to 16". Removing the grenade ring from the stack makes it much better lengthwise. And I like the way it looks too.
Just my opinion. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 6:47:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These pictures help a lot! I'm in the same boat. I have a 12.5" barrel and a Brick moderator and grenade ring. Using the ring with a washer really pushes the OAL out way more than I imagined it would. I actually considered having the barrel shortened so my OAL would be closer to 16". Removing the grenade ring from the stack makes it much better lengthwise. And I like the way it looks too. Just my opinion. The original E2s did NOT use a washer AND grenade ring,AND moderator. The originals ONLY used the grenade ring and moderator. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 6:51:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original E2s did NOT use a washer AND grenade ring,AND moderator. The originals ONLY used the grenade ring and moderator. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These pictures help a lot! I'm in the same boat. I have a 12.5" barrel and a Brick moderator and grenade ring. Using the ring with a washer really pushes the OAL out way more than I imagined it would. I actually considered having the barrel shortened so my OAL would be closer to 16". Removing the grenade ring from the stack makes it much better lengthwise. And I like the way it looks too. Just my opinion. The original E2s did NOT use a washer AND grenade ring,AND moderator. The originals ONLY used the grenade ring and moderator. Not according to the thread tacked at the top of the forum. I don't know who is correct now. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#15]
M1 is right. As per the manual, it's just the grenade ring, no washer.
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Posted: 7/9/2014 7:56:56 PM EDT
[#16]
LOL! Okay, thanks! Maybe Ekie should fix that picture and caption.
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Posted: 7/9/2014 7:57:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M1 is right. As per the manual, it's just the grenade ring, no washer. This. Thanks to Hal for finding those pics! I think the last one is definitely in the Real Deal thread. I still like the look of the E1 the best however - no GL ring and short barrel. The E2 was more reliable however. |
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Posted: 7/10/2014 12:20:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Neat pictures and I wish you well with your build.
I am new here. Hope its okay if I ask a question. I too am looking to build a Colt Model 629 clone.........but I cannot find anyone that makes a nice slip on brake with the grenade ring? Am I looking for something that does not exist? If you have been down this road, maybe you can give me some advice. Thanks RR |
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Posted: 7/10/2014 3:44:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not according to the thread tacked at the top of the forum. I don't know who is correct now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
These pictures help a lot! I'm in the same boat. I have a 12.5" barrel and a Brick moderator and grenade ring. Using the ring with a washer really pushes the OAL out way more than I imagined it would. I actually considered having the barrel shortened so my OAL would be closer to 16". Removing the grenade ring from the stack makes it much better lengthwise. And I like the way it looks too. Just my opinion. The original E2s did NOT use a washer AND grenade ring,AND moderator. The originals ONLY used the grenade ring and moderator. Not according to the thread tacked at the top of the forum. I don't know who is correct now. Some time last year we were able to compare actual part numbers from original split washer packs and the part number in the E2 manual for the grenade ring. The E2 manual does NOT show the split washer part number in it's parts list,it does show the "grenade ring" part number.That thread is archived if you want to go searching.Perhaps Hal143,who was instrumental in bringing the info to light saved the pics/part numbers. .It's very possible that Ekie's pic was of someones clone built before the info was found. We also had this info given to us by an old member 45bravo who was a military armorer and had handled real deal XM177E2s. |
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Posted: 7/10/2014 3:55:19 PM EDT
[#20]
It makes sense. Thanks for the info!
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Posted: 7/10/2014 4:11:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Since I have both manuals...
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Posted: 7/10/2014 4:26:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since I have both manuals... http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/GKCF/e8c28d71-336b-43ab-ba09-93e4e9d84a59_zps53e658d8.jpg Thanks Octane. 
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Posted: 7/11/2014 6:54:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Just wanted to drop a brief post in appreciation of the posters and for those who have supplied pictures.
This is a new topic for me and a fascinating one at that. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 7:13:30 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 7/11/2014 7:44:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Keep em coming guys, Does that guy in the background on last picture have a pump shotgun?
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:32:01 AM EDT
[#26]
The guy in that pic looks like a NOC to me. I could be wrong, but that pic has been discussed before. I believe it was taken in Laos or Cambodia before SOGs involvement there. (edited for OPSEC.)
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Posted: 7/11/2014 6:20:36 PM EDT
[#27]
The places i saw it on(including the site i got it from) had it labeled as sog deep cover laos or cambodia i forget witch country but either way an interesting pic for those interested in viet nam earea "black ops"
Edit: hey morg care to define NOC for a young cavalryman |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 6:46:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took the challenge of trying to find a pic of said weapon years ago. I have only seen 2 pics in 7 years of such a beast......First pic was definitely a Gau-5 USAF, so no go. Second pic I just came across the other day was from John Plasters book I think maybe it was SOG. Given it's Plaster's book I would think it would be mostly of Army Lrrps, GB's, Rangers, etc. Unless the weapon belonged to a FAC. I thought I had that saved, but cannot find it. If someone has the book, it's a BW pic with guns leaning against a wall or something. Then there's this: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/stabo_zps82b08107.jpg ETA: Here's the SOG pic. Still could be a FAC carried weapon. But judging from the homemade sling and corded grip, I think it's a Lrrp or other Army fast mover's weapon. RTUtah would probably know better: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/IMG_2890_zps9d4bfb82.jpg And what the heck, here's the USAF photo, http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/BobLaPointe_zpsd349e4b6.jpg I know the dude's name in the top photo but I forget it at the moment; he's a SOG recon man outta CCC but it's later in the war as we're seeing ERDL fatigues, 30-round mags, and STABO extraction rigs. I'd wager this photo was shot AFTER 5th Group pulled out and CCS melted into CCC and CCN; at which point, CCN became Task Force Advisory Element 1 and CCC became TFAE2. The boys could no longer wear their green berets, flashes, and SF insignias, and wore MACV patches and black baseball caps with jump wings. That would put the date sometime around mid 1971ish. Not sure who's carbine is in the second photo but I have seen it before and I wanna say it was from a SOG source. The third chap is an Air Force PJ; I forget his name, but he was a real stud. The last pic of the civvy-looking dude is an Agency spook taken in the Laotian mountains with Hmong tribesmen. Dangerous shit. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 6:53:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The places i saw it on(including the site i got it from) had it labeled as sog deep cover laos or cambodia i forget witch country but either way an interesting pic for those interested in viet nam earea "black ops" Edit: hey morg care to define NOC for a young cavalryman No Official Cover. I agree with RTUtah - spook in Laos, as I posted. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 7:01:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks morg i figured the most correct part of the description i saw was the part that said deep cover i always questioned the suggested sog affiliation since they wernt humpin web gear
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:06:11 AM EDT
[#31]
So, has anyone on here built a no ring xm177e2?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:25:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the dude's name in the top photo but I forget it at the moment; he's a SOG recon man outta CCC but it's later in the war as we're seeing ERDL fatigues, 30-round mags, and STABO extraction rigs. I'd wager this photo was shot AFTER 5th Group pulled out and CCS melted into CCC and CCN; at which point, CCN became Task Force Advisory Element 1 and CCC became TFAE2. The boys could no longer wear their green berets, flashes, and SF insignias, and wore MACV patches and black baseball caps with jump wings. That would put the date sometime around mid 1971ish. Not sure who's carbine is in the second photo but I have seen it before and I wanna say it was from a SOG source. The third chap is an Air Force PJ; I forget his name, but he was a real stud. The last pic of the civvy-looking dude is an Agency spook taken in the Laotian mountains with Hmong tribesmen. Dangerous shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I took the challenge of trying to find a pic of said weapon years ago. I have only seen 2 pics in 7 years of such a beast......First pic was definitely a Gau-5 USAF, so no go. Second pic I just came across the other day was from John Plasters book I think maybe it was SOG. Given it's Plaster's book I would think it would be mostly of Army Lrrps, GB's, Rangers, etc. Unless the weapon belonged to a FAC. I thought I had that saved, but cannot find it. If someone has the book, it's a BW pic with guns leaning against a wall or something. Then there's this: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/stabo_zps82b08107.jpg ETA: Here's the SOG pic. Still could be a FAC carried weapon. But judging from the homemade sling and corded grip, I think it's a Lrrp or other Army fast mover's weapon. RTUtah would probably know better: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/IMG_2890_zps9d4bfb82.jpg And what the heck, here's the USAF photo, http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/BobLaPointe_zpsd349e4b6.jpg I know the dude's name in the top photo but I forget it at the moment; he's a SOG recon man outta CCC but it's later in the war as we're seeing ERDL fatigues, 30-round mags, and STABO extraction rigs. I'd wager this photo was shot AFTER 5th Group pulled out and CCS melted into CCC and CCN; at which point, CCN became Task Force Advisory Element 1 and CCC became TFAE2. The boys could no longer wear their green berets, flashes, and SF insignias, and wore MACV patches and black baseball caps with jump wings. That would put the date sometime around mid 1971ish. Not sure who's carbine is in the second photo but I have seen it before and I wanna say it was from a SOG source. The third chap is an Air Force PJ; I forget his name, but he was a real stud. The last pic of the civvy-looking dude is an Agency spook taken in the Laotian mountains with Hmong tribesmen. Dangerous shit. Great info RT, Thanks ! The PJ's name is Bob Lapointe. He wrote an interesting book called PJ's in Vietnam as well as a couple others. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:37:03 AM EDT
[#33]
One thing I've been curious about is whether the better reproductions of the moderator out there can be thread through nearly to the cone and what length of barrel would be required (if threaded to match) to make a combination 16" and whether or not at that length it would make sense to have a grenade ring, i.e. would it have actually been usable as such at such a length?
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:33:12 AM EDT
[#34]
The correct answer to the question, is the grenade washer installed with a split washer is NO, I have the original Colt parts, moderator and grenade washer(ring) on my GAU-5A/A upper and the lock washer does not go with the grenade washer, it is possible to put one on there but it does not leave very many threads left for the moderator...use what combo you like and if your welding the moderator on why would you need a lock washer unless you are going early or do not have the grenade washer?
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