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Posted: 10/29/2012 6:34:35 PM EDT
[#1]
I've seen those pics, and they always remind me of my real mother, who I lost in '63 BTW. It's really weird. I know it's not her, but she could be her sister. Twin sister. It's weird.
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BEL
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Posted: 11/5/2012 6:52:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Saw this picture over on Milphotos, thought it would fit here real nice...
In the late 1980s, Navy SEAL Master Chief Jim Kauber, flew over the Persian Gulf at night strapped to the outside of an Army OH-58 helicopter, to interdict Iranian gunboats and mine layers. Outfitted with a Litton M-845 night vision device on his M-16, Jim was part of a then-unacknowledged project, “Earnest Will.” Kauber and his cohorts hunted in the darkness using the 58’s mast-mounted FLIR system, struck with no warning then disappeared before daylight. U.S. Special Operations Command credits these Gulf missions as, “the first successful night combat engagement that neutralized an enemy threat while using aviator night vision goggles and forward looking infrared devices." |
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Posted: 11/5/2012 7:26:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By nougabol: Saw this picture over on Milphotos, thought it would fit here real nice... http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/londerzeel/a5ia07.jpg In the late 1980s, Navy SEAL Master Chief Jim Kauber, flew over the Persian Gulf at night strapped to the outside of an Army OH-58 helicopter, to interdict Iranian gunboats and mine layers. Outfitted with a Litton M-845 night vision device on his M-16, Jim was part of a then-unacknowledged project, "Earnest Will.” Kauber and his cohorts hunted in the darkness using the 58’s mast-mounted FLIR system, struck with no warning then disappeared before daylight. U.S. Special Operations Command credits these Gulf missions as, "the first successful night combat engagement that neutralized an enemy threat while using aviator night vision goggles and forward looking infrared devices."  Cool as hell. |
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Posted: 11/7/2012 5:39:47 AM EDT
[#4]
pic found with google, hope it's not a repost..
GM lower 
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USA
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Posted: 11/17/2012 6:19:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Awesome thread. Times have certainly changed though. Amazing how many pictures show fingers on the trigger.
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BEL
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Posted: 11/18/2012 8:29:32 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 11/18/2012 7:17:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Nice! I knew the Marines tested the Stoner (and liked it a lot) in '65 but have never seen a pic of them actually using them. Imagine for a minute that the Stoner had been chosen over the 'other Stoner design.
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Posted: 11/19/2012 6:21:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Frens]
[#8]
M16A1 "flat top" with M84 scope used in VN, pic posted on Colt's FB page by LooseRounds
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Posted: 11/23/2012 6:15:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By Frens:
M16A1 "flat top" with M84 scope used in VN, pic posted on Colt's FB page by LooseRounds http://s13.postimage.org/oix808do7/665684_244065385722172_1296143015_o.jpg That is pretty slick. |
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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:48:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By KC-10Boom:
Originally Posted By Frens:
M16A1 "flat top" with M84 scope used in VN, pic posted on Colt's FB page by LooseRounds http://s13.postimage.org/oix808do7/665684_244065385722172_1296143015_o.jpg That is pretty slick. The more I look at that picture, the more it appears to be mounted on the side of the carrying handle. |
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BEL
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Posted: 11/24/2012 2:44:20 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 11/27/2012 4:55:40 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 11/28/2012 2:29:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#13]
Yet another fixed stock XM177E1 - when you consider the lack of dwell and the likelyhood of bolt bounce, the heavier rifle buffer really does make a lot of sense. The cutdown carry handle mounted M84 is also cool as hell. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has considered building a clone after seeing this pic. Now I just need an upper with a damaged carry handle.
ETA: When I blowup that last pic of the M84/M16 sniper I can see a weird rail on the RH side - almost like it's tied to the HGs. At first I thought it was a cleaning rod taped to it, but it looks too wide. Any ideas? Note the cheekpiece taped to the top of the buttstock as well - it almost looks like an M1D type cheekpiece. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2012 3:44:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#14]
Lunch. A stick of moldy beef jerky.
That one looks like it has a garand leather cheekpiece and the scope might be offset. Is it? I don't know how to blow it up. I wonder if that's a marine or not. It seems like I've seen pics of Marines with their booney hats really far forward on their head like that.
Now that I'm looking at it, that first pic that frens posted, it almost does look like it's mounted offset and that it might not be a flat top at all. But in the other pic it's really hard to determine if there is a Carry handle there or not. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 4:00:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#15]
It looks like a standard offset M84 mount bolted to the stubs of a cut-down carry handle to me. I agree - I think it's a Garand cheekpiece. You fold your boonie hat like that in back so you can look up while carrying a pack without knocking it off...at least I do.
ETA: What's really interesting to me is that if you blow it up, it looks like not only is the scope offset, but they remounted the top portion of the carry handle - that part with the rear sight in it, back onto the receiver somehow. It almost looks like a modern rear sight. Just how this would co-witness with the front sight I have no idea, but it is pretty tall in the picture. Blow it up and take a look. It's a pretty wild setup. ETA2: If you look at the first pic, you can see what looks like the forward stub of the carry handle sticking up. I'm guessing the mount is bolted to this. Wish I had an M84 mount and scope here to look at. I understand repros are available - seems like it'd be a fun project. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2012 4:38:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Yes, there is something very funky about it. But it's hard for me to tell.
Pic thread. Not sure if I ever posted this one in here or not. 
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AL, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2012 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yes, there is something very funky about it. But it's hard for me to tell. Pic thread. Not sure if I ever posted this one in here or not. http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5326%3A%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D323758%3C985%3B55nu0mrj Cool Pic! Are those ANPVS3's ? Tommy T. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 9:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andouille]
[#18]
There is also some kind of odd rectangular "pad" on the left side under the scope.
The standard offset M84 mount for M1 Garand is quite different from whatever is going on there: 
It's a base with a big knob that screws into the barrel block of the M-1D, and the ring is a clamshell that clamps the scope down with two Allen screws. The scope rings in the M-16 sniper pic clearly show split rings with 4 screws. I don't think the carrying handle is cut off or modified, but could be wrong. I think somebody took a set of commercial rings and a one piece mount, and ginned up some kind of base, or maybe they took the rings and mounts made to put the M84 scope on M1903A4 and cobbled up some kind of base for those. They could have used the hole in the carry handle and done some kinda base in the "hollow" by the rear sight, like the old match shooters used to do to mount a match rear sight on AR-15 without chopping the handle off. I would like to know for sure. I'd build that in a heartbeat. |
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Posted: 11/28/2012 11:05:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By Tommy-T:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yes, there is something very funky about it. But it's hard for me to tell. Pic thread. Not sure if I ever posted this one in here or not. http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5326%3A%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D323758%3C985%3B55nu0mrj Cool Pic! Are those ANPVS3's ? Tommy T. Top scope is a Pvs-1, bottom a standard pvs2 it looks like. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 1:06:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By Andouille:
There is also some kind of odd rectangular "pad" on the left side under the scope. The standard offset M84 mount for M1 Garand is quite different from whatever is going on there: http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0dd08b3127ccef9ef9fe2279800000030O00Bat3DRu4cMQe3nwo/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/ It's a base with a big knob that screws into the barrel block of the M-1D, and the ring is a clamshell that clamps the scope down with two Allen screws. The scope rings in the M-16 sniper pic clearly show split rings with 4 screws. I don't think the carrying handle is cut off or modified, but could be wrong. I think somebody took a set of commercial rings and a one piece mount, and ginned up some kind of base, or maybe they took the rings and mounts made to put the M84 scope on M1903A4 and cobbled up some kind of base for those. They could have used the hole in the carry handle and done some kinda base in the "hollow" by the rear sight, like the old match shooters used to do to mount a match rear sight on AR-15 without chopping the handle off. I would like to know for sure. I'd build that in a heartbeat. I think the base is a modified M1903A4 mount, possibly turned sideways - looks like it's mounted backwards. Look at the spacing and different sizes of the rings - the front ring is narrower. This mount not only works with the M84 but it's steel IIRC and therefore modified easily in a shop. It is likely one could have been kicking around in the parts bin as well. Easy to get at that time. How it's attached to the receiver I still can't tell, but it still looks like the front of the carry handle sticking up in the front of the pic. Why they left it, I can't say, but they must have had a reason...or not. The mount reminds me of a Mosin Nagant sight - maybe they modified the mount to work in a similiar fashion? All you'd need would be a welder, a drill press and a hacksaw. What looks like a rear BUIS is still throwing me, but I think they modified the cut-off carry handle in some way, maybe just drilling and tapping it to mount a base to it. Just some late night thoughts. Wish we had the technology to clear up the pics. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 1:14:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#21]
Another thought - if the M1903A4 M84 mount were turned backward and sideways, the 'tail' would stick out - is it possible they mounted that to the top of the front post of the cut-off carry handle? That would explain why they left it, and should preclude any welding to the mount. The only thing you would need is a way to support it at the rear. Could it be what I'm thinking is a BUIS is really just the rear of the carry handle, cut off like the front? Also, the first time I looked at these pics it looked as if they cut down the FSB, but if you look closely you can see it. That's what makes this so hard to make out - something we think are the trees inthe background could be part of the mount. I'll post pics of the Redfield mount and rings tomm.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 5:36:28 AM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By Tommy-T: Originally Posted By JJREA: Yes, there is something very funky about it. But it's hard for me to tell. Pic thread. Not sure if I ever posted this one in here or not. http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5326%3A%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D323758%3C985%3B55nu0mrj Cool Pic! Are those ANPVS3's ? Tommy T. 2's I believe. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 8:24:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Looking at it real hard I don't think they cut the carry handle at all and the scope is mounted to it.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 10:45:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#24]
Originally Posted By Z09SS:
Looking at it real hard I don't think they cut the carry handle at all and the scope is mounted to it. You may very well be right. THis thought occurred to me last night - why cut out the middle of the charging handle? They may have cut down one side of the upper ridge in order to provide a shelf for the M84 M1903A4 mount to sit on - as I stated, it looks as though it is backwards and sideways. Pretty clever, and maybe not that hard to duplicate after all. Look at the wider ring at the rear not the front as this pic shows. 
Again, you can see that on the M16 the mount is flipped backwards and sideways. 
A Redfield mount currently on ebay. (Not mine - wish I could afford it.) 
Finally, close up of the rings (old auction - sold for big bucks) Compare these to the rings in the first photo. 
It's now my belief that the M1903 mount may be mounted directly to the side of the carry handle. This would be pretty easy to do IMO. It still doesn't explain the block which looks like some weird BUIS at the rear of the setup - unless they used the hole for the standard A1 rear aperture for a mounting point and cobbled some sort of rear sight together, perhaps from some other weapon like a Garand? |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2012 2:05:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Joker_from_TN]
[#25]
Those rings don't look like an 03-A4 mount to me. Those look like the same 4-screw rings and mount I used on my M40 clone build, turned sideways. Could that be the "mystery mount"- a USMC M40 Redfield, Jr twist-off mount and rings on the left-hand side of the rifle's carry handle?
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Posted: 11/29/2012 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#26]
I moved this discussion to a new thread in retro to save space here.
 Got pics? I still think it's an M1903A4 mounted turned around backwards and mounted sideways, but would like to see your pics.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2012 6:07:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Joker_from_TN]
[#27]
Originally Posted By Morg308:
I moved this discussion to a new thread in retro to save space here. Got pics? I still think it's an M1903A4 mounted turned around backwards and mounted sideways, but would like to see your pics.Well, I don't have the gun anymore and the only pictures I have of it don't show it from an overhead angle. Here's a side view: 
and maybe a slightly better view: 
I'm not sure it's one of these; but it looks like I recall mine looking from that angle- and the time frame could be right. |
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Posted: 11/29/2012 8:34:07 PM EDT
[#28]
I think it's likely either one of you could be correct. I am inclined to think M1903A4 rings and mounts for M84 scope, because of Morg's pic:
The M1903A4 mounts were the Redfield JR base, regardless of which scope was mounted, and being as how the M84 scope was bigger diameter than the earliest A4 scope (M73? can't remember) they would be different. By then, Redfield was using 4-screw rings. Nowadays the Redfield rings for JR & SR bases only have 2 screws, if I recall correctly, so an older set of rings would have to be located. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2012 12:09:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By cormorantslayer:
Yeah there are a few federal laws that prohibit the sale of any of these parts. The rifls still belong to the military. Those laws need to be repealed NOW. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2012 7:29:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Notice the color difference on the upper and lower of the rifle on the right. 
What a cute little AR... |
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Posted: 12/4/2012 8:15:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Awesome pics.
Lookit all the canteens and OD green towels in #1 & #3. Lookit all the ammo cans behind the Quad 50. Lookit the 30-round mags in #3 & #4. Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? |
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Posted: 12/4/2012 10:04:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#32]
That 30 in the next to last pic looks like an early full-curve mag to me.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 10:08:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By Andouille: Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. |
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Posted: 12/5/2012 9:17:15 AM EDT
[#34]
just found these with Google
experimental 3shot GL 
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Posted: 12/5/2012 12:10:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Found this recently image searching. It didn't have a caption:
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Posted: 12/5/2012 7:22:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Originally Posted By cormorantslayer:
Originally Posted By Z09SS:
What are the laws about you, oh, leaving those parts there on the table and, say, coming back in about an hour? With the cameras unplugged...  I told the other guy that we could retire with what was laying on that table but we would have to find a country that doesn't have an extradition agreement with the US... LOL.. for sure.. and although those are a beautiful sight.. and yes Im just as jealous as everyone else that they are not legal to own... (looks away from soapbox), but I do think they are looking a little, uh, rough to have been agency rifles? Did you just get them from the mil or something? Sorry I just noticed your question. We've had these for a number of years, yes some of them are a little rough but there are a few that look almost new and I would guess that most of them have had less than 3K rounds through them since they came to the agency. |
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:02:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By Andouille:
Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. Once in a while, the opinion will be offered that 30's really aren't retro or don't look right shoved in a retro rifle, and/or weren't around early enough to get used in The Land of the Big Green. I disagree with any/all of those opinions. Nothing personal. |
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:26:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By Andouille: Originally Posted By RTUtah: Originally Posted By Andouille: Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. Once in a while, the opinion will be offered that 30's really aren't retro or don't look right shoved in a retro rifle, and/or weren't around early enough to get used in The Land of the Big Green. I disagree with any/all of those opinions. Nothing personal. The 30's I recall seeing (in country '67-71) started about mid '69 - and those were only with the SOG guys we hauled out. |
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Posted: 12/5/2012 11:48:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
[#39]
Originally Posted By osprey21: Originally Posted By Andouille: Originally Posted By RTUtah: Originally Posted By Andouille: Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. Once in a while, the opinion will be offered that 30's really aren't retro or don't look right shoved in a retro rifle, and/or weren't around early enough to get used in The Land of the Big Green. I disagree with any/all of those opinions. Nothing personal. The 30's I recall seeing (in country '67-71) started about mid '69 - and those were only with the SOG guys we hauled out. There ya go, straight from the horse's mouth, and very much in-line with nearly a decade of research I've done on the subject of MACV-SOG. Speaking of which, the string of photos just posted by Frens, the top photo is of my friend Lynne M. Black Jr. when he was running recon on RT Idaho out of CCN. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:02:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Production of the 30's ramped up quickly.
My buddy was a Sergeant missile tech in Italy in 70-73 and never saw a 20 rounder until he got bit with the BRD (2006). I know the issue priority was to combat units first. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:09:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Originally Posted By Andouille:
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By Andouille:
Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. Once in a while, the opinion will be offered that 30's really aren't retro or don't look right shoved in a retro rifle, and/or weren't around early enough to get used in The Land of the Big Green. I disagree with any/all of those opinions. Nothing personal. The 30's I recall seeing (in country '67-71) started about mid '69 - and those were only with the SOG guys we hauled out. There ya go, straight from the horse's mouth, and very much in-line with nearly a decade of research I've done on the subject of MACV-SOG. Speaking of which, the string of photos just posted by Frens, the top photo is of my friend Lynne M. Black Jr. when he was running recon on RT Idaho out of CCN. Awesome pic. The Cav started getting 30's about '71 or perhaps a bit later than that, I know for a fact. |
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Posted: 12/8/2012 7:57:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6gunfighter2]
[#42]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Originally Posted By Andouille:
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By Andouille:
Kinda puts and end to any question about 30's, huh? I wasn't aware there were any questions other than when 30s started showing up. Once in a while, the opinion will be offered that 30's really aren't retro or don't look right shoved in a retro rifle, and/or weren't around early enough to get used in The Land of the Big Green. I disagree with any/all of those opinions. Nothing personal. The 30's I recall seeing (in country '67-71) started about mid '69 - and those were only with the SOG guys we hauled out. There ya go, straight from the horse's mouth, and very much in-line with nearly a decade of research I've done on the subject of MACV-SOG. Speaking of which, the string of photos just posted by Frens, the top photo is of my friend Lynne M. Black Jr. when he was running recon on RT Idaho out of CCN. I think it was in one of John Plaster's books where I read that the SOG guys were actually buying their own 30s via mail order, in response to ads in the back pages of "Guns & Ammo" magazine, well before they were issued. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/17/2012 10:18:22 PM EDT
[#43]
I remember getting a couple from some SF guys in trades. I think one of the Dads of one of the SF guys bought a box of them and shipped them to him.
That would have been in late 68 around Sept or Oct. When I left RVN I gave them to a friend of mine. I have hunted for some pictures of them and have not found any yet. If I do find some I will post them. Ron |
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Posted: 12/17/2012 10:38:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By 6winchester2: I think it was in one of John Plaster's books where I read that the SOG guys were actually buying their own 30s via mail order, in response to ads in the back pages of "Guns & Ammo" magazine, well before they were issued. Yep, he took orders for everybody in Recon Company at CCC and ordered up a bunch. When G&A found out who they were going to, they expedited their order. And the first recon mission Plaster went on with his 30, the extra load saved his life in a firefight. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2012 1:38:00 PM EDT
[#45]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2013 12:44:22 AM EDT
[#46]
I don't think I've seen these linked on this site. These came from a page titled "THE RUNGSAT SPECIAL ZONE (RSSZ)"
March 1969 - November 1970 http://www.scearce.net/viet_nam.htm 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2013 11:52:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Way cool Bob, those are some nice ones!
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2013 12:02:07 PM EDT
[#48]
The south Vietnamese turn they're weapons over to the communist 
A soldier's feelings about Khe Sanh All pictures from 'The Eyewitness History of the Vietnam War 1961-1965' By George Esper and The Associated Press. |
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Posted: 2/4/2013 8:42:00 AM EDT
[#49]
from the 173rd ABN facebook page:
American soldiers of 2nd Batt, 503rd Airborne Inf., 173rd Airborne Div. gear up for a long range patrol during Operation Junction City. (Taken from Life Magazine circa 1967) 
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:09:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Frens:
from the 173rd ABN facebook page: American soldiers of 2nd Batt, 503rd Airborne Inf., 173rd Airborne Div. gear up for a long range patrol during Operation Junction City. (Taken from Life Magazine circa 1967) http://s3.postimage.org/5vph8uzbn/173abn.jpg THat's a good pic Frens, but has been posted earlier. We determined that the negative was flippedd around and it's backwards. Someone fixed it in the earlier post. Look at the 'left-handed' weapons and it becomes clear. |
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