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Posted: 2/28/2012 1:48:16 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/28/2012 1:55:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Just for the record, is this worth the BS win or lose?
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-472404.html |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 2:00:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Here's a link to something cooler for your AR Pistol.
That is my Tech Branch letter up the with my info redacted. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=475775 |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2012 8:07:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Just_Tom]
[#4]
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By Just_Tom:
Maybe
Originally Posted By whenheavenfell:
am i missing something, or are there numerous pics of sights on backwards, carbine buffer tubes that would readily accept stocks (hope you don't have any car stocks in proximity, just in case...), and questionable mount choices... all within the last couple days? What's wrong with having a buffer tube that would "readily accept stocks"? That isn't illegal. Some people build their pistols and use them while awaiting SBR paperwork to be approved. Why would you waste the money on a "pistol" tube, if you would eventually be installing a stock? (Even if they are inexpensive...) Not everybody NEEDS a pistol only buffer tube, only the guys that are overly-paranoid about breaking the law. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/sirhybrid/big-brother-poster.jpg Many people seem to think the NFA can just change their minds at a moments notice and suddenly they are going to raid your house and arrest you for laws you had no idea you were breaking. There are publicly documented letters from NFA branch all over the internet stating what is and isn't legal on an AR15 style pistol. And, NO, you do not need your own hand-written in blood and notarized letter from the NFA addressed to you, in order for the laws to apply to you. A law is a law. It goes for everybody. That's how laws work. *end rant* If you are at the range and are shooting your AR pistol with a carbine buffer tube on it and you have your 16" M4 sitting there on the table with a 6 position stock you can get busted very easily. If you have a stock that fits on that buffer tube along with the pistol it's an NFA violation. Are your chances good of getting busted? No, I'd say slim to none. Is it worth the risk to end up in jail or even get charged? Fuck no. Don't advocate not to worry about breaking the law. Don't give people the impression it will be fine if they are unlucky enough to be shooting next to a couple of ATF guys when they get arrested. Constructive possession charges have been sustained against people and those people went to jail so follow the laws and don't be stupid over a $20.00 buffer tube. Okay, I can understand that. Here's the only problem I have with your logic... You are saying that somebody who owns both an AR pistol AND a regular AR rifle could be charged with "constructive intent" because they would easily be able to remove the stock from the rifle and place it on the pistol, creating an illegal SBR. So the solution is to get a "pistol only" buffer tube. Problem solved. But if you do have your AR pistol, with a "pistol only" buffer tube, you could just as easily take the pistol upper and install it on the rifle AR15, creating an illegal SBR. Pretty much you are saying that anybody who owns both a pistol AR15 and a rifle AR15 are guilty of "constructive intent." 
I really didn't want to get into a lame internet battle of wits and words. I just hate how people throw around the term "constuctive intent" like it actually means something. Nobody can prove what you "intend" to do or not...this is real life, not Minority Report. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 12:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jrzy]
[#5]
Originally Posted By Just_Tom: No the Tech branch has told me that having the pistol buffer on the AR pistol shows intent to use it as a pistol.Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By Just_Tom: MaybeOriginally Posted By whenheavenfell: am i missing something, or are there numerous pics of sights on backwards, carbine buffer tubes that would readily accept stocks (hope you don't have any car stocks in proximity, just in case...), and questionable mount choices... all within the last couple days? What's wrong with having a buffer tube that would "readily accept stocks"? That isn't illegal. Some people build their pistols and use them while awaiting SBR paperwork to be approved. Why would you waste the money on a "pistol" tube, if you would eventually be installing a stock? (Even if they are inexpensive...) Not everybody NEEDS a pistol only buffer tube, only the guys that are overly-paranoid about breaking the law. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/sirhybrid/big-brother-poster.jpg Many people seem to think the NFA can just change their minds at a moments notice and suddenly they are going to raid your house and arrest you for laws you had no idea you were breaking. There are publicly documented letters from NFA branch all over the internet stating what is and isn't legal on an AR15 style pistol. And, NO, you do not need your own hand-written in blood and notarized letter from the NFA addressed to you, in order for the laws to apply to you. A law is a law. It goes for everybody. That's how laws work. *end rant* If you are at the range and are shooting your AR pistol with a carbine buffer tube on it and you have your 16" M4 sitting there on the table with a 6 position stock you can get busted very easily. If you have a stock that fits on that buffer tube along with the pistol it's an NFA violation. Are your chances good of getting busted? No, I'd say slim to none. Is it worth the risk to end up in jail or even get charged? Fuck no. Don't advocate not to worry about breaking the law. Don't give people the impression it will be fine if they are unlucky enough to be shooting next to a couple of ATF guys when they get arrested. Constructive possession charges have been sustained against people and those people went to jail so follow the laws and don't be stupid over a $20.00 buffer tube. Okay, I can understand that. Here's the only problem I have with your logic... You are saying that somebody who owns both an AR pistol AND a regular AR rifle could be charged with "constructive intent" because they would easily be able to remove the stock from the rifle and place it on the pistol, creating an illegal SBR. So the solution is to get a "pistol only" buffer tube. Problem solved. But if you do have your AR pistol, with a "pistol only" buffer tube, you could just as easily take the pistol upper and install it on the rifle AR15, creating an illegal SBR. Pretty much you are saying that anybody who owns both a pistol AR15 and a rifle AR15 are guilty of "constructive intent." I really didn't want to get into a lame internet battle of wits and words. I just hate how people throw around the term "constructive intent" like it actually means something. Nobody can prove what you "intend" to do or not...this is real life, not Minority Report. Having a carbine buffer tube on an AR pistol and the stock that can "easily" be put on the AR pistol is what "can" get you busted. Here's the thing, no one is going to try and arrest you if you have a pistol buffer on the AR pistol. There is a chance (no matter how slim) that you could get charged with constructive possession if you have the carbine tube and the stock handy. Have you ever seen a fed prosecutor give up a chance at a slam dunk case? They will make you plead to a felony to pad their stats no matter what, you avoid jail but pull a felony. Why be stupid over a $20 buffer tube. Look , they lock up people for having an DIAZ even if it's not in the gun? That is insane that they can get a conviction for something you might, maybe do. But there are guys in federal prison right now who can tell you don't risk it. The charge is not "constructive intent", the charge is "constructive possession" They use the constructive intent to prove you had the motive, and the ability by a simple act to install the stock onto the AR pistol. Now on the other hand where you have the pistol buffer tube on the AR Pistol it requires a tool to take it off the rifle and then remove it completely and then install it on the AR pistol with a tool and then slip the stock on. It's easy for a prosecutor to show in front of a jury how easy it is if you have the carbine buffer tube on the AR Pistol. Now imagine if he had to use an Armorers wrench and take it all apart and put it back together? Would not look easy to a jury, right? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2012 12:54:38 PM EDT
[#6]
This is supposed to be a picture thread!
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2012 4:24:19 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:04:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice, paracord wrap? Wheres the foam cap from? |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:52:53 PM EDT
[#9]
My First Build
Daniel Defense Upper AR Stoner 7.5 inch barrel with DPMS 3 prong flash hider Spikes Blem Lower I had custom engraved LPK from Del-ton Carbine buffer tube filled with JB Weld, bike handle bar fomiee slipped over and a CAA stock saddle All told cost me arround $500 including the Primary Arms sight, but I cheated by borrowing a bolt from another one of my ARs 
Still need to get a dedicated bolt and a set of BUIS. The great news is that it ran like a champ with 100 rounds of PMC through it and what really supprised me was I also dropped in my CMMG .22 conversion bolt and ran through 50 rounds without a single problem 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2012 10:52:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Nice, paracord wrap? Wheres the foam cap from? I bought it with the wrap and foam cap already on it. I got it from EBRworks.com Sorry couldn't help anymore then that. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 12:19:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By triggs75: Originally Posted By jrzy: Nice, paracord wrap? Wheres the foam cap from? I bought it with the wrap and foam cap already on it. I got it from EBRworks.com Sorry couldn't help anymore then that. No problem, Michael is a Friend of mine |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 12:08:26 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 2/29/2012 2:10:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Just finished my 7.5" 7.62x39 Pistol
Ran 30 rounds thru it in a field test - cycles perfectly - has a good kick to it and it's LOAD! Using an H2 buffer with a standard carbine spring. Barrel was $115 and is 1:10 Chrome Moly from ALPHA SHOOTING SPORTS - but I just noticed sale is over - now $159 
Photo Lnk: AR15 7.62x39 7.5" Pistol |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 2:14:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Surplus Ammo & Arms AR-15 7.5" Pistol Barrel - 5.56, 1:9 - On Sale - $109 (regular $149).
Just saw this so get 'em while they're on sale http://www.surplusammo.com/surplus-ammo-arms-ar-15-7-5-pistol-barrel-5-56-1-9/ |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/1/2012 9:09:53 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/1/2012 10:40:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Here it is without the link
7.5" 762x39 - shoots like a handheld canon and sounds as loud 
Cycles perfect for a bench built bunch of parts first time out. Just addeed an EOTech to it. 
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Posted: 3/2/2012 2:18:44 PM EDT
[#17]
That's nice !!
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2012 10:09:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Got my new Primary Arms micro in the mail today. Shipping was ridiculously fast. Hopefully gonna zero it tmorrow....
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/sirhybrid/IMG_0097.jpg http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/sirhybrid/IMG_0095.jpg |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2012 10:51:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By WolfRulz:
Here it is without the link 7.5" 762x39 - shoots like a handheld canon and sounds as loud
Cycles perfect for a bench built bunch of parts first time out. Just addeed an EOTech to it. http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8538/75in762x39pistol.jpg I gave up on mine after blowing up 2 bolts in short succession.... It was awesome when it worked though. 
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 4:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ibwaminal]
[#20]
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 4:11:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ibwaminal]
[#21]
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 4:32:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ibwaminal]
[#22]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:05:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZachTA]
[#23]
I sure hope all these people with Hand grips vertical/angled fore grips on the AR Pistols have them registered as a SBR AOW
My god have mercy on you because the ATF will not I know the odds are slim but why risk it?
EDIT. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:11:05 PM EDT
[#24]
who has hand grips on there AR pistol
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:16:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By ZachTA:
I sure hope all these people with Hand grips on the AR Pistols have them registered as a SBR My god have mercy on you because the ATF will not I know the odds are slim but why risk it?Some like to live on the edge.
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:59:56 PM EDT
[#26]
I see Pistol Grips - and I see AFG's (that's 'Angled Fore Grip' which are legal by an ATF ruling)
but "Hand Grips" ??? What excatly do you mean? Adding a Stock would make it an SBR and thus requiring a Form 1 filing and ATF approval (stamp) per their $200 Tax Stamp for the privilege. 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:47:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZachTA]
[#27]
Originally Posted By WolfRulz:
I see Pistol Grips - and I see AFG's (that's 'Angled Fore Grip' which are legal by an ATF ruling) but "Hand Grips" ??? What excatly do you mean? Adding a Stock would make it an SBR and thus requiring a Form 1 filing and ATF approval (stamp) per their $200 Tax Stamp for the privilege. I was considering the Angled fore grips to be the same catagory as the vertical fore grips which would make it an AOW.(which i ment by hand grips, poor wording on my part). I was not aware of the ruling for the angled fore grips... could you link me the artical?? I cant seem to find it and its not listed on here from what I can find. Original post has been edited for carity |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2012 10:08:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By mikenacarato:
I'm really excited to build my first AR pistol. I was going to use my M&P 15 lower but was told its not legal to take a registered rifle S/N and make it into a pistol......Since I want to stay legal I went and got a CMMG lower and registered it as a pistol. Can't wait to get rolling with it!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/mikenacarato/Guns/cmmgpistol-1.jpg I have two CMMG lowers now and I have to say for the price they're pretty good. how much you give for your's? |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:15:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By ZachTA: The law is vertical grips on a pistol are no go.I sure hope all these people with Hand grips vertical/angled fore grips on the AR Pistols have them registered as a SBR AOW My god have mercy on you because the ATF will not I know the odds are slim but why risk it?EDIT. Angles grips have been OKed by the ATF as I understand it. Who is showing a vertical grip? |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:18:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By Pacs: Who exactly is living on the edge in this thread?Originally Posted By ZachTA: I sure hope all these people with Hand grips on the AR Pistols have them registered as a SBR My god have mercy on you because the ATF will not I know the odds are slim but why risk it?Some like to live on the edge. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:21:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By ZachTA: Originally Posted By WolfRulz: I see Pistol Grips - and I see AFG's (that's 'Angled Fore Grip' which are legal by an ATF ruling) but "Hand Grips" ??? What excatly do you mean? Adding a Stock would make it an SBR and thus requiring a Form 1 filing and ATF approval (stamp) per their $200 Tax Stamp for the privilege. I was considering the Angled fore grips to be the same catagory as the vertical fore grips which would make it an AOW.(which i ment by hand grips, poor wording on my part). I was not aware of the ruling for the angled fore grips... could you link me the artical?? I cant seem to find it and its not listed on here from what I can find. Original post has been edited for carity The law states VERTICAL forward grip An angled forward grip is not vertical, is it? https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx/edit?pli=1 |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:41:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Yep . . . read the Law . . . know the Law . . live the Law.
Behind door number 2 is poitentialy steep fines and or 25 years free room and board in a federal hotel not necessarially of you choosing.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 2:05:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By Pacs:
Who exactly is living on the edge in this thread?
Originally Posted By ZachTA:
I sure hope all these people with Hand grips on the AR Pistols have them registered as a SBR My god have mercy on you because the ATF will not I know the odds are slim but why risk it?Some like to live on the edge. Me, having a bad time with humor.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2012 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By ZachTA:
Originally Posted By WolfRulz:
I see Pistol Grips - and I see AFG's (that's 'Angled Fore Grip' which are legal by an ATF ruling) but "Hand Grips" ??? What excatly do you mean? Adding a Stock would make it an SBR and thus requiring a Form 1 filing and ATF approval (stamp) per their $200 Tax Stamp for the privilege. I was considering the Angled fore grips to be the same catagory as the vertical fore grips which would make it an AOW.(which i ment by hand grips, poor wording on my part). I was not aware of the ruling for the angled fore grips... could you link me the artical?? I cant seem to find it and its not listed on here from what I can find. Original post has been edited for carity The law states VERTICAL forward grip An angled forward grip is not vertical, is it? https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx/edit?pli=1 Thank you. |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 1:34:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Also, since we are on the dead horse kicking trail.... You can in fact have a vertical foregrip with out registration as a aow on a pistol if the total overall length is greater than 28". Because then it is no longer a pistol but a "firearm".... Don't you just love the atf....
Now post more picture! I need more inspiration
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2012 9:29:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MUDSUX]
[#36]
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2012 6:36:31 AM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By KrazyL:
Also, since we are on the dead horse kicking trail.... You can in fact have a vertical foregrip with out registration as a aow on a pistol if the total overall length is greater than 28". 26" |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2012 11:33:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HankHill33]
[#38]
I just like lookin at it Hank |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 12:16:49 PM EDT
[#39]
This is for pictures only !! Thank you !
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:53:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jrzy]
[#40]
This is the AR Pistol we just finished in AAC 300 Blackout
8.5" Barrel Test fired great with 130 Super sonic & 220 Sub sonic ammo After we opened the gas port on the barrel a little.  |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:01:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By Black-Lions: That's nice !! Originally Posted By Black-Lions: This is for pictures only !! Thank you ! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2012 5:49:26 PM EDT
[#42]
My new Toy |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 6:04:09 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 3/7/2012 6:06:20 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 3/7/2012 6:10:00 PM EDT
[#45]
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ID, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2012 7:26:00 PM EDT
[#46]
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MD, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2012 8:05:50 AM EDT
[#47]
What kinda upper is that without a buffer tube and the side charging handle? I have seen them a few times but can't find exactly what it is? Thanks.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2012 8:21:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Can you please tell me about these pistols. What kind of receiver and pistol grips is that...I have never seen anything quite like that? And the upper is that Olympic Arms but with some modification to the barrel/fore end?
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2012 3:15:13 PM EDT
[#49]
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2012 9:28:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Coachf]
[#50]
Fn upper 10.5 Del ton lower PSA parts kit MOE grip 1 pt sling Larue index covers/ handstops Shitty para cord job (1st attempt) Cane butt end PAGE IS MINE, |
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