Here in lies my dilemma, I'm all set to go out for elk next month, but I still haven't decided on a load. I was given a box of Nosler 150 gr Ballistic Tips (which I like because I don't have to spend any extra $), but 150 gr seems a little light to me to knock down an elk, although the guys I'm going with both put down big bulls with 150 gr Hornady bullets in .30-06.

I refuse to cave and use my .30-06, as I want to bag an elk with my M1A so bad it's like acid in my mouth. So here's what I'm looking for. Load data, personal experience, folk lore, myth, legend, ANYTHING stating I have a good chance of taking down a bull elk with one well placed 150 gr bullet from a .308. Tell me it can be done...I know shot placement is key and yadda, yadda, yadda, don't worry, I'll hit the damn thing in the vitals. I just need to know it's gonna punch his ticket.

I have a little bit of time left to build and test a load before the clock runs out, about twenty days, give or take. There's your challenge ARFCommers. Don't let me down.

150gr is probably not an issue, the ballistic tip however is not an elk bullet.

It says "Hunting" right on the box...the website recommends it for "deer-sized game". Sorry that came off snotty, I'm not a first timer, just trying to utilize a box of bullets I already have to make a load to put down an elk. I know a Partition would work better, but I'm on a budget and can't go buy several different bullets to test.

For a good medium between ballistic tip and partitions (or other "premium" heavy bullets) try Sierra Gamekings.  The ballistic tip would likely kill the hell out of an elk, but there is certainly a chance of overexpansion and wounding.



eta:  my choice would be the 165gr SGK

Okay, now we're getting somewhere! I've used Partitions in the past, the one time I went elk hunting as a kid. I know that bonded core bullets work amazingly well, like the Accubond or CT. I guess I'm going to have to look into a different bullet. I use Hornady VMax bullets for my AR loads, and I have zero complaints about their performance. Any experience with a Hornady big game bullet?

No experience with Hornady on game, just paper.....which is why I shoot Sierra.  YMMV.

Your Sierra plug made me rush into my "Rabbit Hole" and tear it apart looking for something. Long ago, my dad gave me a box of 165 gr GameKings. And wouldn't you know there's about 30 in the box. Thanks for the inspiration to trash my armory room! I think I even have load data for what I have laying around.

What kind of powder do you have?

I have about 3/4 of a lb of H380 laying around and about 1/2 lb of Tac, I've used both with good result in my .308's.

I had better luck with TAC of the two, and exceptional luck with H4895.

I had better groups with TAC, but my velocities were less consistent than with H380 (200 fps variance with TAC vs 50 fps variance with H380). I had an old retired USAF guy I used to work at a gun store with that would preach for hours about H4895 and how there was no other powder for the .308, personally as long as it gets the bullet there, I don't really care. I do like TAC and usually I have a few lbs sitting on the shelf but I've let my supply run out to dangerously low levels.

What are you running for a rifle?

I think they use 168 gr match bullets in the m1a for accuracy so why don't you pick-up round in that weight.

Most match rounds are HP or FMJ, which you can't use for harvesting game in Wyoming.

Yeah, that's why I suggested the 165 gameking.  I use the same load for both....just kind of worked out that way.


Rabbit, I'm shooting a heavy bolt gun.

As a general rule, sierra game king/match king load data is the same or  enough to get you very close to dialed in. The same goes for the Hornady AMAX / SST.

I use the 140grn SST in my 6.5x55 bolt action,and/or a 165grn SST in my AR10 for elk.  

The SST is great on elk, not so much on smaller game. Remington Core lokt bullets aren't very sexy, but they kill things dead every time I have used them also.

I wouldn't try to give you load data for your M1A,as the only thing I know about them is one of my friends told me what I was shooting through the AR10 would FUBAR the op rod on his M1A.
And I use 4064 or Varget. Hope this helps in some way.

I guess I will be the odd man out..... stick with the .30-06.

Guess I wasn't clear enough. I meant pick-up a hunting cartridge in the 165 - 170 gr weight range.

First question:  what distances do you think you'll be shooting at?



And Elk don't fall into deer size game.  from all the factory ammo boxes i've seen, it's usually small game (rabbits coyotes/fox) deer size game (usually show a white tail) and then Big Game (usually show a moose or elk).  Elk weigh, way more than 200 lbs.  Have you ever seen a mature bull in the wild?

I don't care for ballistic tips myself, my pet .308 load is 43gr of 4064 behind almost any 150 165 gr bullet, I have had good reults with the hornday sst and interbonds on mule deer and caribou and will be using them on my wy elk hunt here in a couple of weeks

I have used the Nosler Ballistic Tips in .308 extensively.  They open hard and fast, creating a huge wound channel.  these are great on deer, since the bullet opens and shreds a small melon  sized chunk of tissue between 4 and 12" inside the deer.  However, this same 'timing' means that the majority of the expansion happens too shallow.  The expansion is over, and the remaining wound channel is relatively narrow and unimpressive from 12" on.  In other words, on a big critter like the Elk the BT's open too fast and don't hang together long enough for ideal effect.  The 150 BT is the wrong bullet for elk. period.

If you wish to use a 150 (why?  The 165 and 180 have better sectional density and are far more apporpriate) try a Partition.  If these are out of your price range even a regular no frills 150 Interlock will do better on elk than the ballistic tip. If you insist on using a 150 grainer, a basic low budget bulk remington corelokt, winchester powerpoint, or basic boxed softpoint will do better than the BT's.  You'd be farther ahead with a 165 or 180, again in the same basic no frills softpoint.  Any of these basic bullets are cheaper than ballistic tips but offer better performance.  They open a tad more slowly and less violently, meaning they plow a little deeper with a narrower (but deeper) wound channel that you'll want for elk.  

For what its worth the BT says "hunting" because there are two different 'flavors" or types of BT's.  In calibers like 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and .30 there are varmit ballistic tips and there are hunting ballistic tips.  The varmit types have thing soft jackets and are intended to come apart fast.  These are usually the light for caliber bullets (think 125 in 308).  the hunting types (150, 165, 180) BT's have a stronger, thicker jacket.

If it means anything I am working on loads for caribou next Fall.  'Bou are about midway between whitetails and elk, with an average caribou going about 250-300 lbs.  That is severl hundred pounds smaller than a mature elk.  As much as I love the ballistic tips on northern whitetails  I will not be using the BT's despite having a ton on hand  and good load development.  I'll be working on Nosler partitions, Nosler Accubonds and Hornady Interbonds in 165 grain.  Using a 150 Ballistic Tip on elk is sort of like using a light varmint bullet in a 223 or 243 on deer:  there is nothing wrong with 243 but you need the right bullet.  Nosler recommends the 308 hunting ballistic tip for use on antelope and deer.  They do not recommend it for caribou or elk,

buy a box of winchester powermax.  they shoot really well for me, they are bonded, and they are $23/box of 20.

If you go with the Hornady use the interbond NOT the interlock.

OK, you want real world experience:

No way a ballistic tip will hold up like this AFTER busting both shoulders


Pixs of damage, sorry if you are offended. You might not want to be in the hunting forum.
Range was 50 yds. velocity was 2700


Have fun

First reply nails it.  You need a sturdy bullet.
and one of these. I started carrying a handgun while packing meat out after finding fresh lion prints in the snow.  Sneaky bastard followed me
from the kill to 50 yds from the truck.  Never saw it.  



And some of these, dog not included.

Interlock hornady are not good for elk and yes I have shot several before I switched to partition. Killed them but what was left of the bullet scared the shit out of me that the next one might limp off.
Plenty of elk have been killed way before there ever was fancy bullets if you cant spare the coin I wouldnt sweat it like you said SHOT PLACEMENT is key

Your results are better than ours.  One 30-06 exploded on shoulder blade/ follow up killed the elk.  One knocked elk down, elk ran off, never found her.  The second elk fell on the shoulder that was shot and we found bullet fragments in the blood pool indicating another bullet that came apart without penetrating.  

I used the interbonds on a largish black bear in a 300WM and had good results.

I just started reloading this year so thanks for all the info everyone as I was eventually going to ask the same question. One thing I can say is that my m1a likes the heavier bullets as far as accuracy is concerned. There was a thread in the armory M1&M1A section on reloading for the M1A but it looks to have been archived.

Why the cutoff at 170 gr?  I load 180 Accubonds for my .308. Tried varget, tac, and 2000mr and tac gives the best accuracy in my aac sd. Sub .5 moa 3 shot groups every time. Running at 2500 fps with tac. Plenty of velocity and energy for the distances I would take a shot at.

Does your barrel not like 180 gr pills?

I'd opt for a 165 grain Barnes TSX bullet.  Pick someone who loads and start shooting, now.

M1A's tend to bend oprods with heavier bullets and hotter loads. About 168 is max with commercial ammo and it isn't recommended that you shoot it extensively. FWIW Lake city match ammo for the m14 maxed out at 173gr.

I'm not an M1A guy,so I don't know where they start having problems. Will the M1A shoot 175 grn Federal Gold medal match without issue?

It should shoot it but you may eventually start having problems with extensive use of the hotter load. You may want to post this in the armory Garand/M1a forum

the M1A is OK with fed GMM 175's.  the M118LR was breaking some op rods, but they worked out the load to be OK.  it is definitely hotter than the GMM.

Then  shouldn't building a FGGM recipe with a 175 grain Game King or a 178 Hornady SST or other similar bullet work for his M1A?

*42.3 grains* of 4064/ reloader 15/ varget. + 175ish bullet. In theory this should = Win?

*This is what I use for the FGGM replica*  YMMV

I don't see why not.

Your M1A is a good weapon. Find a good commercial hunting load, or reload that matches it, and go get your game. The M1A in the post kill picture will be much better and the weapon is certainly capable of taking the game you are after.

Those will work just fine at 308 velocities, BLC 2 and IMR 4064 are a couple of powders which seem to work well in most 308s.
People managed to kill a lot of shit without 2 buck a piece designer bullets.

42.5gr H4895
165gr Sierra Game King

this would be my go to load for your M1A

Speer Grand Slams
180 grain in the 308 or 06
100 grain in the 243
165 grain in the 7mm
145 grain in the 7mm for deer if i feel like sighting it in otherwise its 165 grain.

Speer Gold Dot Hollow points in the pialthoughalthow a 240 graipunchespuches a nasty hole in deer sized game as well.

A whole new line of " Premium Big Game Hunting Bullets " , currently under " R&D ".. & will be out sooooon !

Cutting Edge Bullets ; " ESP RAPTORS "

Hollow Point one end
Hollow Point; * with optional extended Range Tips *
Flat Point Solid other end.
http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/pages/news

Indepedant Lab Tested


UPDATE : Field Tested: CEB - ESP RAPTOR : .308  
QUOTE : " OK, I have a deer report this morning! I loaded a few of the 130 Raptors last week for my remodel contractor and friend of mine. He hunts deer every weekend, and shoots a 308 and I have been loading normally 150 Hornadys for him the last few years. Which has been a great bullet for him. Well today he tells me he wants nothing but Raptors from now on! He shot a doe the other day, "Doe Day" for meat mostly. I got a pretty detailed report, and pleased with that. I loaded the Raptors to around 2850 fps in his rifle, and they shot to the same POI as his standard Hornady load, so there was no downside on POI. Where he shot the other day is only around 65 yards, so it was close.

The bullet entered left side, quartering away, so not a severe rear raking shot, about in between from what I can gather. The entrance hit a rib going in, tore a huge hole shown to me about 4 inches in diameter on the entrance, with liver hanging out of the entrance. Left lung completely torn in half, massive damage to right lung. Something hit spine and damaged 3 vertebrate??? Was not the bullet, as the main bullet exited on the right shoulder. Exit was a 30 caliber exit hole. Everything in between was totally destroyed I am told. Excessive damage to vital organs and tissues, very little to no meat damage at all, a good point for the meat hunters I suppose. Heart was not damaged or hit. It was bang, flop. No running, not even a step, bang and drop to the dirt.

This is reported direct to me not 15 minutes ago. I give it to you as it was given to me. First words were, "That is one Bad Ass Bullet".
Michael  "

Accurate Reloading
Big Bore Forum : Terminal Bullet Performance : Pg# 193
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/193

PAPI

As far as I know, you can use hollow point bullets to hunt in Wyoming.  Here are the regs...

Section 4. Firearms and cartridges that are legal for the taking of big or trophy game animals.

(a) Wyoming statutes authorize the use of a firearm which has a barrel bore diameter of at least twenty-three-hundredths (23/100) of an inch and is chambered to fire a center-fire cartridge not less than two (2) inches in overall length, including a soft or expanding point bullet seated to a normal depth, or a muzzle-loading rifle which has a barrel bore diameter of at least forty-hundredths (40/100) of an inch and a charge of at least fifty (50) grains of black powder or equivalent, or a muzzle-loading specialty single shot handgun which has a barrel length of not less than ten (10) inches, a bore diameter of at least forty-five-hundredths (45/100) of an inch and which propels a projectile of two hundred forty (240) grains at not less than five hundred (500) foot pounds at one hundred (100) yards.
(b) In addition, the Commission authorizes any other cartridge fired from a firearm that has a barrel bore diameter of at least thirty-five hundredths (35/100) of an inch and the cartridge generally delivers at least five hundred (500) ft-pounds of impact at one hundred (100) yards and cartridges used are loaded with a soft, or expanding point bullet.

I have never shot an elk.  I have shot large antelope including kudu and eland. I bought my 1st rifle 44 years ago
and have been shooting since that time.

I do not own an M1A (I would like one), but I do own an M1,  I built a FAL, and I own two AR-10s.

Here is my opinion.
The answers you seek are all contained in previous posts.

1.  Your rifle is not designed to shoot rounds having various gas impulse characteristics.   You need to either, stick with something
close to M59 Nato Ball (which is only 150gr), OR add a variable gas block to your rifle so you can shoot heavier loads.

2. While light weight bullets give you flat trajectory, they are not your friend in terms of terminal ballistics.
Heavier is better.  180gr is good, but your M1 cannot shoot heavy long bullets as you are limited by the magazine length vs COL and
do not want to overpressure the operating system.  Someone said, "just use your 30-06", good advice.

3.  You can get very good terminal performance with a lighter Barnes tipped TSX  150gr, 165gr, or 168gr.
The question is, what OAL will fit in your magazine?  The Cu bullets will tend to be long.

4.  Using some light, un-bonded bullets to shoot elk, just because you happen to own a box, is false economy and contradicts
claims of persons' hunting experience.  Stick around this forum and you will hear plenty of people bragging about bagging a moose
with a .223 or supposedly dropping a brown bear with an SKS.  Sure, this is possible, and no doubt has been done, but
why would you take advice from the retarded segment of the population?

168 gr barnes worked great on this guy a few years back