....I really, really, really don't want to start a new thread for this, and since this has already been thoroughly trolled and whatnot, I'll post here anyway.

I don't own an AR15, but I wish to own parts for an M16. Since I don't own an AR15, the parts aren't an MG, correct?

Should I just write to the ATF on this?

Theoretically you can own the whole FCG. Realistically, the ATF will beat your wife until she miscarries, stomp on your kittens, shoot your dogs, burn your house and throw you in jail. Sooner or later a judge will throw out the charges and ATF will let you go and tell you you're lucky.

j/k

So it's legal, then?

Originally Posted By Third_Rail: So it's legal, then?

Yes. Do not posses them and a receiver at the same time, and you're theoretically gonna be OK.

Excellent!

For what it is worth...

Keep an eye out for a NEW and updated regulations manual from ATF.  I have been told that it will finally directly address have a FA BC in a SA rifle as being OK.  There are supposed to be other clarifications in it also in regards to AR15/M16 parts.

mark

Don't think I have posted in the thread for a couple of years?  Any how, I find it interesting that a few NIB Colt's semiautomatics have shown up in the last month with "M16" carriers.

Originally Posted By Ekie: Don't think I have posted in the thread for a couple of years?  Any how, I find it interesting that a few NIB Colt's semiautomatics have shown up in the last month with "M16" carriers.

True.....and if was "illegal" then Colt of all companies would'nt be doing it.

Originally Posted By rockytherotty: Originally Posted By Ekie: Don't think I have posted in the thread for a couple of years?  Any how, I find it interesting that a few NIB Colt's semiautomatics have shown up in the last month with "M16" carriers. True.....and if was "illegal" then Colt of all companies would'nt be doing it.

Well, it could just be part of Colt's conspiracy against civilian sells, and ownership.  Perhaps they are trying to get their civilian customers a Federal felony conviction so they won't be able to buy more product?

I don't own an AR15, but I wish to own parts for an M16.

Originally Posted By Zoomer: I don't own an AR15, but I wish to own parts for an M16.

What?  Doesn't everyone who does NOT own an AR long for M16 parts?  Sheesh!

Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver?

It would in no way fire full auto.........

Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position?


Just curious

Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver? It would in no way fire full auto......... Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position? Just curious

As long as you don't have the hole drilled for the auto sear, you are, BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, okay.

How ever, if the rifle doubles, then you have some issues (just like if it were all AR15 parts and started doubling).

Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver? It would in no way fire full auto......... Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position? Just curious As long as you don't have the hole drilled for the auto sear, you are, BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, okay. How ever, if the rifle doubles, then you have some issues (just like if it were all AR15 parts and started doubling).

I'm tempted to have all the M16 parts minus the sear and see if i can make it SAFE-SEMI-JAM...

on purpose.........

The moment you flip the selector over to the third position it scares people shitless

Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver? It would in no way fire full auto......... Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position? Just curious As long as you don't have the hole drilled for the auto sear, you are, BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, okay. How ever, if the rifle doubles, then you have some issues (just like if it were all AR15 parts and started doubling).

Bottom line, if it fires more thaon one shot peroperation of the trigger, or can be readily converted to do so, then you're in violation.

Originally Posted By NAM: Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver? It would in no way fire full auto......... Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position? Just curious As long as you don't have the hole drilled for the auto sear, you are, BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, okay. How ever, if the rifle doubles, then you have some issues (just like if it were all AR15 parts and started doubling). Bottom line, if it fires more thaon one shot peroperation of the trigger, or can be readily converted to do so, then you're in violation.

"readily converted"....

Any AR15 is readily converted if you have an LL....

But I could argue that it had to have the inside machined out, the sear hole drilled, and an autosear put in for it to become full auto....

Just cross my fingers it wont slam-fire or follow-through.... I think the modern colt carriers prevent against such, but I may find out someday.

Originally Posted By NAM: Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Not to beat the dead dog, but what if one were to have an AR15 with an M16 bolt carrier, disconnector, trigger, and hammer with an AR15 selector installed in their receiver? It would in no way fire full auto......... Or how about an AR15 with all AR15 parts but with an M16 selector so you can have that "third" position? Just curious As long as you don't have the hole drilled for the auto sear, you are, BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, okay. How ever, if the rifle doubles, then you have some issues (just like if it were all AR15 parts and started doubling). Bottom line, if it fires more thaon one shot peroperation of the trigger, or can be readily converted to do so, then you're in violation.

The ATF doesn't have anything in the regs agout a mechanical malfunction, so it wouldn't matter if you had M16 parts or not.

More than one round per pull of the trigger = mg.

I have an M-4 (AR-15) that I just purchased recently here in MD. I have an M-16 BOLT CARRIER THAT IS MILLED BACK in my rifle. In order to make an AR into an a MG you will need to change or have all TURE M-16 PARTS. BOLT, TRIGGER, DISCONNECTOR, HAMMER. You will also need to have an AUTOMATIC SEAR. Look at this site and it will show you the difference in BOLTS, TRIGGERS, DISCONNETORS, AND HAMMERS.
IT'S NOT ILLEGAL TO HAVE AN M-16 BOLT CARRIER IN AN AR BECAUSE ALMOST ALL ARs HAVE M-16 CARRIERS IN THEM.

Here's the web-site that I got the info from.

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

Originally Posted By fozzylee: I have an M-4 (AR-15) that I just purchased recently here in MD. I have an M-16 BOLT CARRIER THAT IS MILLED BACK in my rifle. In order to make an AR into an a MG you will need to change or have all TURE M-16 PARTS. BOLT, TRIGGER, DISCONNECTOR, HAMMER. You will also need to have an AUTOMATIC SEAR. Look at this site and it will show you the difference in BOLTS, TRIGGERS, DISCONNETORS, AND HAMMERS. IT'S NOT ILLEGAL TO HAVE AN M-16 BOLT CARRIER IN AN AR BECAUSE ALMOST ALL ARs HAVE M-16 CARRIERS IN THEM. Here's the web-site that I got the info from. www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

wow, that website looks strangely farmiliar... nice find on finding the info... Lol..

Almost all of that has been explained and more, but i guess if anyone runs across the topic the link cant hurt

I was reading the pages of this forum and at the begining there was a debate going on about M-16 bolt carriers being illegal or not b/c someone said this

I am wanting to put an M16 bolt carrier in my AR15, I would think I would get better reliability from a heavier bolt carrier. As long as i have no other m16 parts in my ar, would this be legal?

.

and the two answers to that was

1.

NO NOT LEGAL

2.

you will go to jail

Like I stated b4 I just recently purchased and M-4 from Fulton Armory and that has an M-16 bolt in it and I just figured I'll put my $.02 in

Originally Posted By fozzylee: and the two answers to that was 1. NO NOT LEGAL 2. you will go to jail

And neither were correct.

You guys have already PROVEN that an M16 carrier, in and of itself, installed in what is otherwise an AR-15 rifle, IS NOT a machinegun.

1) The ONLY way the ATF can demonstrate that an AR equipped with an M16 carrier is a machinegun is to get it to fire auto by loading up pistol primer ammo and altering the disconnector.

2) Supposedly, the only reason this works is because the AR-15 bolt carrier has a cutout machined in it which causes the gun to jam rather than slam fire. THIS IS NOT TRUE. All current BC's sold by Bushmaster, RRA, and others have a shrouded, M16 style firing pin. Therefore, a shrouded/unshrouded BC Is NOT a feature of an AR-15 bolt carrier.

3) THEREFORE, any gun which the ATF rigs to fire full auto with an M16 carrier will STILL FIRE full auto when the politcally correct Bushmaster "AR-15" bolt carrier is used. THUS, with regards to full auto function, THERE IS NO FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE between an "AR-15" bolt carrier and an "M16" bolt carrier is a rifle where all other parts semi.

Because there is no functional difference, AT ALL, between two rifles, one with an M16 BC and one with an AR-15 BC, it is IMPOSSIBLE to state that the M16 rifle is illegal while claiming that the AR-15 BC rifle is legal... unless the ATF was contending that all AR-15's are illegal, which they clearly aren't.

Logic, it works every time.

Originally Posted By Ekie: Don't think I have posted in the thread for a couple of years?  Any how, I find it interesting that a few NIB Colt's semiautomatics have shown up in the last month with "M16" carriers.

I just picked up a NIB 6721 today and low and behold it had a M16 carrier in it. I'm glad cause I'm not a fan of the nuetered carrier.

Originally Posted By arjohnson: I just picked up a NIB 6721 today and low and behold it had a M16 carrier in it. I'm glad cause I'm not a fan of the nuetered carrier.

My NIB 6721 purchased last week has an M16 carrier as well ...

im pretty sure my last AR15 came with an M16 buttstock screw, and an M16 pistol gripbut seriously I have a spare M16 upper with 'sear notches' cut out on the bottom. does that matter? also what if i were to get an M16 bolt carrier and put it together on a AR15 lower? for a sweet A1 clone?

Originally Posted By kjedmondson182: im pretty sure my last AR15 came with an M16 buttstock screw, and an M16 pistol grip im screwed! but seriously I have a spare M16 upper with 'sear notches' cut out on the bottom. does that matter? also what if i were to get an M16 bolt carrier and put it together on a AR15 lower? for a sweet A1 clone?

I honestly don't think anyone would bother you, but if you ever got into a legal situation you might have a big problem with any M16 fire components.

I wouldn't be afraid to put most m16 parts on or in my rifle but when you start putting in fire control components (e.g. bolt carrier has a sear trip) then u might want to watch yourself..

also, watch for double-fires and i wouldnt bumpfire with a rifle that has m16 parts in it..

but i dont think anyone would mess with ya unless they really wanted to press it to you for anything.

some people simply amaze me. How many pages will this go on before people keep askign the same damn question over and over and over....ad nauseum?

Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Originally Posted By kjedmondson182: im pretty sure my last AR15 came with an M16 buttstock screw, and an M16 pistol grip im screwed! but seriously I have a spare M16 upper with 'sear notches' cut out on the bottom. does that matter? also what if i were to get an M16 bolt carrier and put it together on a AR15 lower? for a sweet A1 clone? I honestly don't think anyone would bother you, but if you ever got into a legal situation you might have a big problem with any M16 fire components. I wouldn't be afraid to put most m16 parts on or in my rifle but when you start putting in fire control components (e.g. bolt carrier has a sear trip) then u might want to watch yourself.. also, watch for double-fires and i wouldnt bumpfire with a rifle that has m16 parts in it.. but i dont think anyone would mess with ya unless they really wanted to press it to you for anything.

DO you not get it?

It's NOT illegal to have M-16 parts installed on an AR-15.

As long as you don't have an unregistered DIAS or LL and don't have the sear pin hole, you are 100% legal.

Read what the actual law says, not what Bushmaster says.

Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Originally Posted By kjedmondson182: im pretty sure my last AR15 came with an M16 buttstock screw, and an M16 pistol grip im screwed! but seriously I have a spare M16 upper with 'sear notches' cut out on the bottom. does that matter? also what if i were to get an M16 bolt carrier and put it together on a AR15 lower? for a sweet A1 clone? I honestly don't think anyone would bother you, but if you ever got into a legal situation you might have a big problem with any M16 fire components. I wouldn't be afraid to put most m16 parts on or in my rifle but when you start putting in fire control components (e.g. bolt carrier has a sear trip) then u might want to watch yourself.. also, watch for double-fires and i wouldnt bumpfire with a rifle that has m16 parts in it.. but i dont think anyone would mess with ya unless they really wanted to press it to you for anything. DO you not get it? It's NOT illegal to have M-16 parts installed on an AR-15. As long as you don't have an unregistered DIAS or LL and don't have the sear pin hole, you are 100% legal. Read what the actual law says, not what Bushmaster says.

Here we go again......... Hey i want you to set up an AR15 for an RDIAS,,, a host gun.... and i want you to explain to the ATF how that is legal. (when you dont own an RDIAS).

lets just end this discussion... everyone can READ the thousands of posts and learn everything they need to know. kthx

i read almost all of them(took a while) and im pretty sure nobody asked about the sear notches

I have never had a jam with my 7 colt ar's and 1 bush ar. over 50,000 rounds(with handloads). I don't have the green followers, m-16 bolt or enhanced feed ramps. Just use a normal semi-auto bolt. Its not worth the risk. Last time I had a jam was with oly lower in 1994. Damn long time ago. If you bought an ar that  jams I would sell it for a different type of rifle. hk93 or ak.

Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Originally Posted By Hydguy: Originally Posted By Typhoon2004: Originally Posted By kjedmondson182: im pretty sure my last AR15 came with an M16 buttstock screw, and an M16 pistol grip im screwed! but seriously I have a spare M16 upper with 'sear notches' cut out on the bottom. does that matter? also what if i were to get an M16 bolt carrier and put it together on a AR15 lower? for a sweet A1 clone? I honestly don't think anyone would bother you, but if you ever got into a legal situation you might have a big problem with any M16 fire components. I wouldn't be afraid to put most m16 parts on or in my rifle but when you start putting in fire control components (e.g. bolt carrier has a sear trip) then u might want to watch yourself.. also, watch for double-fires and i wouldnt bumpfire with a rifle that has m16 parts in it.. but i dont think anyone would mess with ya unless they really wanted to press it to you for anything. DO you not get it? It's NOT illegal to have M-16 parts installed on an AR-15. As long as you don't have an unregistered DIAS or LL and don't have the sear pin hole, you are 100% legal. Read what the actual law says, not what Bushmaster says. Here we go again......... Hey i want you to set up an AR15 for an RDIAS,,, a host gun.... and i want you to explain to the ATF how that is legal. (when you dont own an RDIAS).If the gun DOES NOT FIRE MORE THAN ONE ROUND PER TRIGGER PULL IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. lets just end this discussionStop posting untrue statements. IF an AR has all the M-16 componets, minus the sear pin hole, or an unregistered DIAS, AND ONLY FIRES SEMI AUTO IT IS STILL JUST A SEMI AUTO. ... everyone can READ the thousands of posts and learn everything they need to know. kthx

IF people would READ the law, ant pay attention to THE LAW, and NOT an opinion, then you are fine.
Bushmaster has their OPINION. You have YOUR opinion.

I read the LAW. And Followed it.

Typhoon2004, please show me, IN THE LAW, where it is illegal to have M-16 componets in an AR that fires semi-auto only.

And don't post the Bushmaster disclamer, because it is their OPINION, and RIGHT to limit the sales of those parts.

Originally Posted By valblade: Its not worth the risk.

There is no risk.

From what I understand, Colt and possibly others are shipping new AR-15's with M16 carriers.

The original post was a person asking if an m-16 bolt would be legal in an all ready owned ar15. He thought it would "get better reliability" with an m-16 bolt. If your ar is jamming then your doing something wrong or have cheap magazines or maybe using peanut butter instead of gun lube.

A guy in ny was just charged with having a machine gun when the cops seached his house and found a kit to make an ak-47 full auto. The kit was not in the gun it was sitting next to the gun. I will never have to worry because I don't buy m-16 bolts or autosears. Why don't you go and buy the drop in auto-sear that are advertised in the shotgun news/gun list. I'm sure thats a police sting operation. Really the ad says something like only a few more remaining. They have had only a few for the last 20 years.

Originally Posted By valblade: The original post was a person asking if an m-16 bolt would be legal in an all ready owned ar15. He thought it would "get better reliability" with an m-16 bolt. If your ar is jamming then your doing something wrong or have cheap magazines or maybe using peanut butter instead of gun lube. A guy in ny was just charged with having a machine gun when the cops seached his house and found a kit to make an ak-47 full auto. The kit was not in the gun it was sitting next to the gun. I will never have to worry because I don't buy m-16 bolts or autosears. Why don't you go and buy the drop in auto-sear that are advertised in the shotgun news/gun list. I'm sure thats a police sting operation. Really the ad says something like only a few more remaining. They have had only a few for the last 20 years.

He was busted for 'constructive intent', which is a BS charge in and of it's self.

The ATF can use 'constructive intent' if you have ALL the parts to make a firearm full auto, even if you don't intend to make a MG.

It a cheap shot.

Hell, if you have M-16 blueprints and a AR, and a drill press, you have all the tools necessary to make a MG, because the sear pin hole, EVEN WITHOUT THE SEAR OR ANY OTHER M16 PARTS MAKES A MG OUT OF THE RECIEVER.

It is a way of making criminals, even without any true criminal intent.

Valblade,

I really don't see how anything in your post is relevent to this discussion. Auto sears are legally defined as machine guns, and as such require serial numbers, transfer tax, etc. M16 BC's do not.

A kit to make an AK-47 full auto is, by definition of the law, a machine gun. Once again, an M16 BC has no effect on the AR-15's mode of firing, therefore it is neither a machine gun nor a machine gun kit.

If you can't see the OVERWHELMING legal difference between an M16 BC and an auto sear, I don't think you should be commenting on this thread. An M16 BC doesn't make my rifle any more capable of full auto fire than an M16 pistol grip. The so called "AR-15" BC was an unnecessary modification brought to us by Colt, the same guys who came up with non standard fire control pin sizes and sear blocks...  

Furthermore, the use of an M16 BC does make the rifle more reliable, the AR-15 was designed to use a BC with the mass of the M16 BC, not the neutered "AR-15" BC. Heavier mass decreases the cyclic rate, which can be especially helpful in shorter rifles. Don't believe me? Look up all the threads on this forum about people using tungsten weighter BC's and extra heavy 9mm buffers.

I just thought that since the ad says no ffl needed and since the sear will not make it full auto than why would it be illegal. I know the ad is a scam. It does say all nfa rules apply. I'm sure when you order this c.o.d only then they will arrest you.I was just thinking that why would it be illegal if it doesn't make it fire full auto without the other parts.

Wait! I think I was wrong before about the arrest. It was not a kit but somekind of special receiver or something.I will try to find the article. I'm sure its just a case of adding more to the other charges. See the guy was not allowed to have any guns because he went nuts years ago. they just seached his home and found guns and then they found this part. I will have to dig this up. It was in the buffalo news the day before yesterday.
I thought the real main point was that the dude wanted to know if his ar would be more reliable?
And a side note about if its legal. If he was not having any problem(jams) then why buy a m-16 bolt.

Originally Posted By valblade: Wait! I think I was wrong before about the arrest. It was not a kit but somekind of special receiver or something.I will try to find the article. I'm sure its just a case of adding more to the other charges. See the guy was not allowed to have any guns because he went nuts years ago. they just seached his home and found guns and then they found this part. I will have to dig this up. It was in the buffalo news the day before yesterday. I thought the real main point was that the dude wanted to know if his ar would be more reliable? And a side note about if its legal. If he was not having any problem(jams) then why buy a m-16 bolt.

Get your story straight before you post it.

THe main point of this thread is to combat the misinformation out there.

The ATF has an OPINION (they ADVISE against using M-16 parts) that you should not use M-16 parts, because if you do, and the gun doubles, they consider it a machine gun.
But even if you don't have any M-16 parts, and it doubles, it is STILL a MG under the LAW.

There is nothing in the law about a mechanical failure being an exemption to the law.

If you have every M-16 part in your AR (minus the sear, because you have to drill the sear pin hole, or use a LL or DIAS) and the gun is only capable of firing one round per trigger pull, it is still not a MG, no matter who says different.

A machine gun has a legal definition, as does a semi-automatic.

an as long as your firearm is incapable of firing more than one round per trigger pull, it cannot be a MG.

I don't know about the part where you state a gun that malfunctions to double or fire full auto is a machine gun. I believe the law states something along the lines of "designed to shoot more than one shot with single function of the trigger'. It would seem that the whole point of the "designed" was to rule out busting people with malfunctioning guns. I've seen several guns that would be considered a machine gun by this definition, not only AR's, but several M1A's and 1911's where slam firing often occurs with a worn out sear. However, clearly these guns were not "designed" to shoot more than one round with a single pull of the trigger.

You know, I think a lot of this obsession with the M16 BC rises out of some strange need for gunowners to feel 100% safe from federal/state prosecuction. For all you people who use an AR-15 BC because you know you're completely safe... you're not. If the ATF wants to bust your ass, they're going to do it, no matter how much paper work you have supporting your case, no matter how hard you've tried to obey the law. If they decide to bust you for a violation of NFA, they'll just load up some .223 with ultra soft primers, making the gun slam fire auto. Or... they'll grind off the disconnector and make it slam fire auto. Or... they'll just plant an auto sear in your house and bust you. If you think you're a gunowner who has nothing to fear from the ATF, you are delusional. Stop BSing yourselves... we're all on the list. What's that you say? Not you? Yes, you too. And if your number comes up, you're screwed. Deal with it. If you want to be 100% safe from big brother, I suggest you sell all your guns, get a normal 9-5 job, and just watch reality TV for the rest of your life.

Originally Posted By valblade: I just thought that since the ad says no ffl needed and since the sear will not make it full auto than why would it be illegal. I know the ad is a scam. It does say all nfa rules apply. I'm sure when you order this c.o.d only then they will arrest you.I was just thinking that why would it be illegal if it doesn't make it fire full auto without the other parts.

I just wanted to be sure you know the difference between autosears and Drop In Auto Sears (DIAS).  The autosear is a part in the M16.  An AR-15 does not have the holes drilled for this part.  Drilling the holes is in itself a violation.  If you have a DIAS, that part is specifically designed to convert an AR-15 to full auto and is a prohibited part and must be legally registered, hence, RDIAS for Registered DIAS.  If I recall correctly, if you have NO AR's or parts need to make an AR, you can have an unregistered DIAS - it's just a paperweight then.  But if you have an unregistered DIAS and an AR or the parts to make an AR, then you are guilty of constructive possession.

Most people think the add in SGN for the DIAS's is a scam.  Been there a long time, changed names at least once.  Any REAL legally registered DIAS is going to cost big bucks ($10K+) and be papered.

So in summary, if all you do is order that DIAS in the ad, and have no AR's or parts to build an AR, then I don't see anything illegal about it.  That part in the ad, unlike the M16 autosear part which is not designed for conversion, WILL make an AR-15 full auto and thus illegal if you have any AR-15 or parts to build an AR.  See the difference?

I run M16 carriers in all my AR's unless I have a special carrier like the LMT enhanced or LBC carrier (which by the way, is as heavy as an M16 carrier without the stigma).  The heavier weight enhances reliability, even if you don't need it, just as you may not need an 'H' buffer in your carbine, etc...

Originally Posted By valblade: A guy in ny was just charged with having a machine gun when the cops seached his house and found a kit to make an ak-47 full auto. The kit was not in the gun it was sitting next to the gun.

Yaah, having the parts to make it fire more than one shot of the trigger makes it a machine gun, whether or not those parts are installed or not.

26 U.S.C. Sec. 5845 (b) Machinegun – The term “machine gun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

Posting the text of a copy of a letter I received in the mail today.  A Word document of this letter can be downloaded here : home.comcast.net/~0100010a/


U.S. Department of Justice


Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco

Firearms and Explosives
[stamp] FEB 10 2005


903050:RV

3311/2005-167
www.atf.gov


[stamp] Received FEB 14 2005

 Legal Department

Mr. Carlton S. Chen
Colt Defense LLC
547 New Park Avenue
West Hartford, CT 06110

Dear Mr. Chen:

This is in reference to your most recent facsimile transmitted to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), on January 13, 2005.  In your faxed letter, you seek clarification regarding the use of M16 machinegun bolt carriers in AR-15 type weapons.

As you are aware, since your provision of copies of relevant material in your previous faxes, ATF has previously addressed the use of M16 machinegun fire-control components in AR-15 type rifles in the General Information section of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P 5300.4).  (Please refer to page 115, item #3, “Important Information Concerning AR-15 Type Rifles.”)

However, we would like to direct your attention to a particular paragraph of item #3, which states the following:

In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.  Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially.  The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.

Accordingly, based on previous FTB recommendations not to install this bolt carrier and the conclusions presented in the passage cited above, our Branch cannot specifically authorize you to install an M16 bolt carrier into an AR15 rifle.  Also, we cannot definitively tell you that installing an M16 bolt carrier in an AR 15 will make that firearm fire automatically.

-2-

Mr. Carlton S. Chen


We can only inform you that if this installation were to create a firearm that fires automatically, it would be a machinegun as defined; conversely, if it did not result in the production of a weapon that shoots automatically, it would be lawful to posses and make.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

[signed]

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Originally Posted By 0100010: Posting the text of a copy of a letter I received in the mail today.  A Word document of this letter can be downloaded here : home.comcast.net/~0100010a/ U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives [stamp] FEB 10 2005 903050:RV 3311/2005-167 www.atf.gov [stamp] Received FEB 14 2005  Legal Department Mr. Carlton S. Chen Colt Defense LLC 547 New Park Avenue West Hartford, CT 06110 Dear Mr. Chen: This is in reference to your most recent facsimile transmitted to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), on January 13, 2005.  In your faxed letter, you seek clarification regarding the use of M16 machinegun bolt carriers in AR-15 type weapons. As you are aware, since your provision of copies of relevant material in your previous faxes, ATF has previously addressed the use of M16 machinegun fire-control components in AR-15 type rifles in the General Information section of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P 5300.4).  (Please refer to page 115, item #3, “Important Information Concerning AR-15 Type Rifles.”) However, we would like to direct your attention to a particular paragraph of item #3, which states the following: In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.  Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially.  The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Accordingly, based on previous FTB  not to install this bolt carrier and the conclusions presented in the passage cited recommendations above, our Branch cannot specifically authorize you to install an M16 bolt carrier into an AR15 rifle.  Also, we cannot definitively tell you that installing an M16 bolt carrier in an AR 15 will make that firearm fire automatically. -2- Mr. Carlton S. Chen We can only inform you that if this installation were to create a firearm that fires automatically, it would be a machinegun as defined; conversely, if it did not result in the production of a weapon that shoots automatically, it would be lawful to posses and make. We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive. Sincerely yours, [signed] Sterling Nixon Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Look at the keywords.  They only recommend actions such as installing those parts, and recommend that they be removed (not must), and reiterate that if it does not cause the firearm to shoot automatically that it would be LEGAL.

The goverment could recommend that speed limiting governors be installed in your vehicle to avoid violating the speed laws, but it's not illegal to do otherwise even though it's known that exceeding the speed limit is illegal yet most automobiles can easily exceed the legal limit.

It would help those reading the posted letter above to read the preamble to the federal regulation reference.

ATF has encountered various AR-15 type assault riflessuch as those manufactured by Colt, E.A. Company, SGW, Sendra and others, which have been assembled with fire control components designed for use in M16 machine guns.  The vast majority of these rifles which have been assembled with an M16 bolt, carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector  will fire automatically merely by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector.  Many of these rifles using less than the 5 M16 parts listed above will also shoot automatically by manipulation of the of the selector or removal of the disconnector.

Think about it.  They are saying a vast amount of AR-15 rifles have been assembled with the parts they say not to install and they know about.  None of these known manufacturers have been prosecuted for putting those parts in the ATF says they did.  Why?  Because it's not illegal.  If it were illegal to put those parts into an AR-15, don't you think they could have prosecuted the mentioned companies the ATF knew to be assembling such?  Don't you think they would prosecute or stop today's companies from doing such, which they most definitely are?

I know of no case where someone has been prosecuted and found guilty for using an M16 carrier in an AR-15 unless they had enough additional parts to make an AR-15 automatic.  If ATF wanted to prosecute someone for such, don't you think they would have tried or stopped all the companies who they knew to be manufacturing "vast" amounts of AR's with those parts referenced in the Federal Firearms Regulations book, standing by while they did it, rather than picking on an individual?

The letter posted above says in no way it's illegal to use those parts, they only recommend against it and will not confirm that it's illegal (cause it's not and they can't as such).  They are not about to tell people they can use those parts, they would rather it be ambiguous to discourage the practice rather than possibly encouraging it.  Fax them a letter asking for a 'yes' or 'no' answer, I guarantee you will never get it.  Bet my entire AR collection, all of which use M16 carriers (go ahead and report me) except for special enhanced carriers.