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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:40:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Old news in NYS, everyone does it....can't blame a guy for getting all the OT he can when his pension is based on the last year or two of pay...guys will give their OT to guys at the end to pad their pension, knowing others will do the same for them when the time comes...
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:49:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Need to get rid of pensions. Contribute to a 401k match or something like that. Fuck this golden pillow bullshit.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:50:00 PM EDT
[#3]
The current tier 6 people can only get 10% of OT counting toward their retirements.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:05:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Bullshit lie this is what fucks the rest of the public employees. Sounds like a case of poor management by the town board and plain stupidity in allowing a department head to collect OT in the first place.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 7:22:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like a case of poor management by the town board and plain stupidity in allowing a department head to collect OT in the first time. Exactly. Even "mismanagement"! |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 7:30:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need to get rid of pensions. Contribute to a 401k match or something like that. Fuck this golden pillow bullshit. LOL, no. The 401K was never intended to be primary retirement account. Cheap companies looking to make it a replacement made it one, to the detriment of the employees. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 7:32:16 AM EDT
[#7]
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The current tier 6 people can only get 10% of OT counting toward their retirements. Which screws the employee when they work for a department that fills shortages through planned OT instead of hiring enough bodies If you got paid the dollars , it should count..all of it.... |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:35:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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LOL, no. The 401K was never intended to be primary retirement account. Cheap companies looking to make it a replacement made it one, to the detriment of the employees. Actually I think if companies invest in 401 plans for their employees, are entitled to several hundreds of thousands in tax breaks . I think its a win win situation if that in fact is the case. But this situation here in Ramapo is down right criminal. I always said their is a fine line between the criminal element and legal system. Edit: legalized extortion of the tax-payer and every taxpayer and politician is to intimated to put an end to the extortion. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:22:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, no. The 401K was never intended to be primary retirement account. Cheap companies looking to make it a replacement made it one, to the detriment of the employees. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Need to get rid of pensions. Contribute to a 401k match or something like that. Fuck this golden pillow bullshit. LOL, no. The 401K was never intended to be primary retirement account. Cheap companies looking to make it a replacement made it one, to the detriment of the employees. Fine, then give the employee $xxx per pay period to invest however they want to. Looks like the 401k in the beginning was only available in a handful of large companies. It has evolved into a primary retirement plan option. Nothing wrong with it, except that it puts the power and control of the money in the hands of the employee, not the employer, if that is a detriment. But, I guess if people want to not be in control of their financial situation, then pensions are the way to go. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:33:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Pension spiking. Could be fixed easily by basing pension benefit on base salary only.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:50:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fine, then give the employee $xxx per pay period to invest however they want to. Looks like the 401k in the beginning was only available in a handful of large companies. It has evolved into a primary retirement plan option. Nothing wrong with it, except that it puts the power and control of the money in the hands of the employee, not the employer, if that is a detriment. But, I guess if people want to not be in control of their financial situation, then pensions are the way to go. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:55:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fine, then give the employee $xxx per pay period to invest however they want to. Looks like the 401k in the beginning was only available in a handful of large companies. It has evolved into a primary retirement plan option. Nothing wrong with it, except that it puts the power and control of the money in the hands of the employee, not the employer, if that is a detriment. But, I guess if people want to not be in control of their financial situation, then pensions are the way to go. If people want additional savings above their traditional pensions, they're free to do so. I have three pensions, an IRA, two deferred comp plans, a TSP plan from my military days, etc Quite honestly, the one thing I did NOT plan on was divorce and my ex getting a chunk of my county and military pensions because she wouldn't sign off on them. Meanwhile she had worked 25 years at her employer by that point and had only saved a few thousand. In my mind that's proof that she'd been planning for many years to divorce. Why save anything if you know you'll have to give half of it up........ The divorce and subsequently having to buy a new place and start over is the only reason I am still at my primary employer, and there isn't a day that goes by that a coworker or a citizen doesn't ask why I haven't retired yet The biggest argument for 401Ks is their portability, and with todays younger workers not staying with the same company their whole working life, that's a selling point. I think that ultimately people will find out that the 401K is a substandard plan that doesn't provide adequate funding the entirety of the retirees lives. Time will tell.... |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:44:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If people want additional savings above their traditional pensions, they're free to do so. I think that ultimately people will find out that the 401K is a substandard plan that doesn't provide adequate funding .... That's because the 401(k) admin companies are feeding people BS. They told us for a long time that the market had never lost money over any 10 year period. Oops, that went away. They say don't move your money when an investment portfolio turns down, it will come back. That's crap too. Some of the companies in that portfolio simply go bust. I have yet to see one that doesn't spin the retirement numbers to INCLUDE social security. How about we see the basics of performance at retirement without the SS factored in? It would shock the hell out of people. AND the worst is that most (if not all) of the marketing collateral (I mean the quarterly report) predicts value at retirement, but read the tiny, tiny print- "assuming 2% annual raise and 8% annual market return". Both of which are not accurate for most investors. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 6:40:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Neither are lifetime pensions paid for by someone else. The math says public pensions do not work unless taxes are prohibitively high. Normal people don't "retire" in their 40s and 50s, much less on someone else's money. If pretty much the entire non public workforce can't theoretically retire at 65 then so should the public sector.
I can already hear the "but...police and fire...!" They can retire whenever they want, but perhaps not collect until 60. Find another job like everyone else. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 8:17:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither are lifetime pensions paid for by someone else. The math says public pensions do not work unless taxes are prohibitively high. Normal people don't "retire" in their 40s and 50s, much less on someone else's money. If pretty much the entire non public workforce can't theoretically retire at 65 then so should the public sector. I can already hear the "but...police and fire...!" They can retire whenever they want, but perhaps not collect until 60. Find another job like everyone else. There are 10s of thousands of the cry babies out there on the taxpayer dime and plenty are lackeys. To have a monthly pension income of say $6,000, you most likely need about $2 Million in the bank . I'm just saying. Why the fuck would someone continually be allowed to rip the taxpayers off? |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:03:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither are lifetime pensions paid for by someone else. The math says public pensions do not work unless taxes are prohibitively high. Normal people don't "retire" in their 40s and 50s, much less on someone else's money. If pretty much the entire non public workforce can't theoretically retire at 65 then so should the public sector. I can already hear the "but...police and fire...!" They can retire whenever they want, but perhaps not collect until 60. Find another job like everyone else. Do you really want a bunch of geriatric police and firefighters? You'll pay more in the long run when you start having a lot of older injured officers out for prolonged periods of time They aren't exactly desk jobs |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 11:17:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you really want a bunch of geriatric police and firefighters? You'll pay more in the long run when you start having a lot of older injured officers out for prolonged periods of time They aren't exactly desk jobs Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Neither are lifetime pensions paid for by someone else. The math says public pensions do not work unless taxes are prohibitively high. Normal people don't "retire" in their 40s and 50s, much less on someone else's money. If pretty much the entire non public workforce can't theoretically retire at 65 then so should the public sector. I can already hear the "but...police and fire...!" They can retire whenever they want, but perhaps not collect until 60. Find another job like everyone else. Do you really want a bunch of geriatric police and firefighters? You'll pay more in the long run when you start having a lot of older injured officers out for prolonged periods of time They aren't exactly desk jobs As in... find a different job, not the same one. Once you can't pass the physical fitness requirements, it's time to change careers. That's not the only line of work that requires physical ability, not everyone can do their favorite job until retirement. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:33:11 PM EDT
[#18]
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As in... find a different job, not the same one. Once you can't pass the physical fitness requirements, it's time to change careers. That's not the only line of work that requires physical ability, not everyone can do their favorite job until retirement. Good luck finding employers who want to hire people in their late 40s and 50s for anything more than low-paying service sector jobs.. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:57:36 PM EDT
[#19]
One needs to make ones self marketable for another career.
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:02:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are 10s of thousands of the cry babies out there on the taxpayer dime and plenty are lackeys. To have a monthly pension income of say $6,000, you most likely need about $2 Million in the bank . I'm just saying. Why the fuck would someone continually be allowed to rip the taxpayers off? Indeed. You speak of "present value". I laugh (or cry) when are hear them indignantly claim they contributed. Sure they did. A tiny fraction of what is needed. At best. Guess who pays the rest? Spend some time on "Pensiontsunami.com" and see where this is all headed. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:07:16 PM EDT
[#21]
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Need to get rid of pensions. Contribute to a 401k match or something like that. Fuck this golden pillow bullshit. Good luck finding applicants. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:11:42 PM EDT
[#22]
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Do you really want a bunch of geriatric police and firefighters? You'll pay more in the long run when you start having a lot of older injured officers out for prolonged periods of time They aren't exactly desk jobs I believe you misunderstood me. Never said we should have 55 year old firefighters. What I am saying is they are free to stop the job when they want and accrue a modest pension after a defined period of service of, say, 25-30 years--which they can start collecting at a normal retirement age like 65 or perhaps reduced amounts at 62 like Social Security. Until then they can find other employment as the rest of us would have to do. Working for 20 and being paid for 40 more after "retiring" at 42 for 60 in total is obscene and un-affordable. Public service was never meant to make many ordinary workers essentially millionaires once present value is factored in. Look around the nation and see the massive multi TRILLION dollar shortfalls. I predict many of these pensions will not be paid, not due to falsely claimed "jealousy", but hard math. Its happening more and more. At some point the well is dry no matter how much ill conceived public unions throw a tantrum. These pensions are a relic from another time and were conceived when public servants were underpaid and police/fire weren't routinely in the well over 100K salary club. Guess what? If the tax base doesn't have them and can't afford to give them to you then, in time, they will fall as math dictates. Its called the real world. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:13:48 PM EDT
[#23]
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Good luck finding employers who want to hire people in their late 40s and 50s for anything more than low-paying service sector jobs.. Tell that to all the cops/firemen who "retire" at 40-42 and then have entire different careers, all the while receiving large pensions. Again, a math problem. Those who not like these terms are free to not start the job. I'm not worried. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:28:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed. You speak of "present value". I laugh (or cry) when are hear them indignantly claim they contributed. Sure they did. A tiny fraction of what is needed. At best. Guess who pays the rest? Spend some time on "Pensiontsunami.com" and see where this is all headed. Edit http://seethroughny.net/ |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:49:13 PM EDT
[#25]
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One needs to make ones self marketable for another career. LE doesn't exactly translate well into many other career fields. Same issue that many military vets have, although the vets who get out or retire tend to be younger than many retiring officers Other than that, no matter how marketable you make yourself, many employers simply don't want to hire older people for better-paying jobs. It's something that doesn't affect just retiring law enforcement. Many retired officers currently augment their pensions with lower paying jobs but they'd never consider those jobs if they had to defer their pensions and live entirely off whatever service sector jobs they can come up with. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 9:51:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe you misunderstood me. Never said we should have 55 year old firefighters. What I am saying is they are free to stop the job when they want and accrue a modest pension after a defined period of service of, say, 25-30 years--which they can start collecting at a normal retirement age like 65 or perhaps reduced amounts at 62 like Social Security. Until then they can find other employment as the rest of us would have to do. Working for 20 and being paid for 40 more after "retiring" at 42 for 60 in total is obscene and un-affordable. Public service was never meant to make many ordinary workers essentially millionaires once present value is factored in. Look around the nation and see the massive multi TRILLION dollar shortfalls. I predict many of these pensions will not be paid, not due to falsely claimed "jealousy", but hard math. Its happening more and more. At some point the well is dry no matter how much ill conceived public unions throw a tantrum. These pensions are a relic from another time and were conceived when public servants were underpaid and police/fire weren't routinely in the well over 100K salary club. Guess what? If the tax base doesn't have them and can't afford to give them to you then, in time, they will fall as math dictates. Its called the real world. I didn't misunderstand you. See my subsequent replies in the thread. I know plenty of public sector employees who re hardly "millionaires" by virtue of their pensions. You can look up exactly what they're being paid. It's on the state website. Sure there are some retired department heads from Downstate who look to be making decent pension amounts, but they're the exception and not the norm. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 2:14:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are 10s of thousands of the cry babies out there on the taxpayer dime and plenty are lackeys. To have a monthly pension income of say $6,000, you most likely need about $2 Million in the bank . I'm just saying. Why the fuck would someone continually be allowed to rip the taxpayers off? Who the fuck is making 6k a month!? The average state retirement pension is 28k a year. People with exorbitant pensions are the exception, not the rule. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 4:13:20 AM EDT
[#28]
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As in... find a different job, not the same one. Once you can't pass the physical fitness requirements, it's time to change careers. That's not the only line of work that requires physical ability, not everyone can do their favorite job until retirement. Say hello to my lawyer who will now sue you for age discrimination. I made a contract with the county and state. I give you the best years of my life dealing with the dregs of society you give me a pension. You wanna do what I do? |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 5:16:02 AM EDT
[#29]
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Who the fuck is making 6k a month!? Lots of people. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 7:33:27 AM EDT
[#30]
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Lots of people. Downstate pensions are higher because of your higher salaries, but the typical NYS pension is not 6K a month http://seethroughny.net/pensions Once you weed out the high end pensions from downstate, the annual numbers are not so high for most pensioners. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 11:45:58 AM EDT
[#31]
That is true to a point but you need to know where to look. There are thousands of $200,000 plus a year pension cronies. We the taxpayer have been fucked and will continue to be fucked.
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Posted: 12/9/2016 12:42:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is true to a point but you need to know where to look. There are thousands of $200,000 plus a year pension cronies. We the taxpayer have been fucked and will continue to be fuck. Not really that many, mainly a few Downstate agency heads and higher ups. Look at the link I posted. Sure there are some guys making 200K a year as retirees. That's not the norm, and most of them are Downstate where the costs of living are higher, so their salaries were higher and the resulting pension amounts are higher. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 10:42:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really that many, mainly a few Downstate agency heads and higher ups. Look at the link I posted. Sure there are some guys making 200K a year as retirees. That's not the norm, and most of them are Downstate where the costs of living are higher, so their salaries were higher and the resulting pension amounts are higher. This is true but look at all those agencies carefully. Yeah I checked out seethroughny.com and there are plenty of people in the six figure range. Could you imagine retiring with a benefit of $200,000? You are basically a made millionaire by the taxpayers. You would need about $8 million maybe more to generate $16,000 a month. Fuck some of these pensioners. |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 5:08:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is true but look at all those agencies carefully. Yeah I checked out seethroughny.com and there are plenty of people in the six figure range. Could you imagine retiring with a benefit of $200,000? You are basically a made millionaire by the taxpayers. You would need about $8 million maybe more to generate $16,000 a month. Fuck some of these pensioners. So it's nothing more than jealousy for you. How much do you THINK their pensions should be if they're an agency head or someone whose salary was low to mid six figures while they were working Because that's all it is; a calculation based on what their working salary was. |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 11:45:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it's nothing more than jealousy for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is true but look at all those agencies carefully. Yeah I checked out seethroughny.com and there are plenty of people in the six figure range. Could you imagine retiring with a benefit of $200,000? You are basically a made millionaire by the taxpayers. You would need about $8 million maybe more to generate $16,000 a month. Fuck some of these pensioners. So it's nothing more than jealousy for you. It shouldn't be.  
Quoted:
Retired state worker here as well |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 1:03:19 PM EDT
[#36]
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It shouldn't be.
LOL!! I'm not jealous I'm lucky
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Posted: 12/10/2016 1:41:36 PM EDT
[#37]
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LOL!! I'm not jealous I'm lucky You don't see it as being somewhat ironic that the very group you're bitching about includes YOU? |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 3:13:33 PM EDT
[#38]
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Downstate pensions are higher because of your higher salaries, but the typical NYS pension is not 6K a month http://seethroughny.net/pensions Once you weed out the high end pensions from downstate, the annual numbers are not so high for most pensioners. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lots of people. Downstate pensions are higher because of your higher salaries, but the typical NYS pension is not 6K a month http://seethroughny.net/pensions Once you weed out the high end pensions from downstate, the annual numbers are not so high for most pensioners. To be fair, there is generally a difference between rank and file State workers and the 2 "groups" with out of control pensions, fire/police and teachers. The "average" pension is a clever lie as it includes people who only worked for a short time, etc. More accurate is an assessment of the average police/fire/teacher pensions over the last 10-15 years. Regular people don't get to "retire" in the 40s with often 100K pensions and lifetime medical. Direct correlation between the too typical 6 figure paychecks and pensions. Its just not worth it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be fair, there is generally a difference between rank and file State workers and the 2 "groups" with out of control pensions, fire/police and teachers. The "average" pension is a clever lie as it includes people who only worked for a short time, etc. More accurate is an assessment of the average police/fire/teacher pensions over the last 10-15 years. Regular people don't get to "retire" in the 40s with often 100K pensions and lifetime medical. Direct correlation between the too typical 6 figure paychecks and pensions. Its just not worth it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g Sorry,but your typical NYS LEO is not retiring with 100K pensions Are there Downstate and State Police officers who make six figures? Absolutely. Those are the salaries they negotiated. I can't speak for teachers, but none of the teachers I know in my area are making anywhere near 100K. Considering that NYS requires them to have a Masters if they're teaching above the elementary level, I figure they're being paid for what level of training they are required to have. I am sure there are area school district level superintendents who are making over 100K; the local district superintendent makes around 120K, but most area districts around aren't paying near that much nor do their admins supervise as large an employee pool. You have to look at the bigger picture: how many personnel are the respective administrators responsible for, and what sort of pay would that level of responsibility get them in the private sector |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 6:49:08 PM EDT
[#40]
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Sorry,but your typical NYS LEO is not retiring with 100K pensions Are there Downstate and State Police officers who make six figures? Absolutely. Those are the salaries they negotiated. I can't speak for teachers, but none of the teachers I know in my area are making anywhere near 100K. Considering that NYS requires them to have a Masters if they're teaching above the elementary level, I figure they're being paid for what level of training they are required to have. I am sure there are area school district level superintendents who are making over 100K; the local district superintendent makes around 120K, but most area districts around aren't paying near that much nor do their admins supervise as large an employee pool. You have to look at the bigger picture: how many personnel are the respective administrators responsible for, and what sort of pay would that level of responsibility get them in the private sector Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be fair, there is generally a difference between rank and file State workers and the 2 "groups" with out of control pensions, fire/police and teachers. The "average" pension is a clever lie as it includes people who only worked for a short time, etc. More accurate is an assessment of the average police/fire/teacher pensions over the last 10-15 years. Regular people don't get to "retire" in the 40s with often 100K pensions and lifetime medical. Direct correlation between the too typical 6 figure paychecks and pensions. Its just not worth it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g Sorry,but your typical NYS LEO is not retiring with 100K pensions Are there Downstate and State Police officers who make six figures? Absolutely. Those are the salaries they negotiated. I can't speak for teachers, but none of the teachers I know in my area are making anywhere near 100K. Considering that NYS requires them to have a Masters if they're teaching above the elementary level, I figure they're being paid for what level of training they are required to have. I am sure there are area school district level superintendents who are making over 100K; the local district superintendent makes around 120K, but most area districts around aren't paying near that much nor do their admins supervise as large an employee pool. You have to look at the bigger picture: how many personnel are the respective administrators responsible for, and what sort of pay would that level of responsibility get them in the private sector Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $$ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 9:11:03 PM EDT
[#41]
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Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. Well said |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 12:42:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Sounds like a bunch of guys who didn't pass the test!
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Posted: 12/11/2016 7:10:22 AM EDT
[#43]
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Not really that many, mainly a few Downstate agency heads and higher ups. Look at the link I posted. Sure there are some guys making 200K a year as retirees. That's not the norm, and most of them are Downstate where the costs of living are higher, so their salaries were higher and the resulting pension amounts are higher. Higher downstate salaries equate to higher downstate pensions...paid for by upstate tax payers with lower salaries...just one more reason to split away from NYC. |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 11:29:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. lol.. fuck that noise pal. |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 11:56:40 AM EDT
[#45]
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Higher downstate salaries equate to higher downstate pensions...paid for by upstate tax payers with lower salaries...just one more reason to split away from NYC. Yes Sir, PLEASE!!! |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 12:48:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. FDR was against unions because he wanted a monopoly on power. It's why he tried to stack SCOTUS, for instance. Unions were just one more obstacle to him having unopposed power. Union propaganda? We have none of that. What we HAVE had in my experience are FDR wanna be's on the other side of the table, so it's hardly "incestuous". The Troopers get the salary they do through negotiations, nothing wrong with that. The staties used to be on par with our road patrol; we've fallen behind for a variety of reasons that if discussed at length would turn this thread into a War and Peace length dissertation There are plenty of counties in Upstate where they are the only law enforcement presence in the county, so they do more than speed traps. Quoted:
Higher downstate salaries equate to higher downstate pensions...paid for by upstate tax payers with lower salaries...just one more reason to split away from NYC. It's the NYS pension fund. Those Downstate taxpayers are funding the state pension with their taxes as well.... |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 12:51:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they all say this.. but would you want to leave your employment security and future left in the hands of people that are barely competent to change their own underwear? in the state with the largest amount of corrupt politicians in the history of the political machine.. lol.. fuck that noise pal. PRECISLY why vetting candidates and selecting well qualified people for positions is critical. Neither Party does, the few who've wormed their way into control of the Party (the REAL power behind those elected to the Office) How often have we seen "Well Governor Bullshit did a fine job for the State for a decade, his Son should follow in his footsteps and do a fine job as well"  Who the fuck come up with this stuff? How many successful business have you seen run into the ground when the kids took over? but I digress from the point of this topic.
Government at all levels is contaminated by those put there because of what's on paper, not their demonstrated knowledge, not what they know, but who they know. Twice we elected someone with credentials we cannot prove, questionable linage, NO experience, someone elected solely on the color of his skin (and some pretty slick speaking skills) and look where that's gotten us. As for the Pensions and its system: If there's money, you'll be paid until it runs out, and likely it'll be reduced until such time as its exhausted. Upstate v. Downstate: given the cost of living, (property taxes are a prime example) you'd have to pay more to employ and retain the civil services needed to upkeep the infrastructure and public good. I know a retired Corrections Officer who worked the system, took the tests, moved up, and followed the rules as written: His retirement exceeds most peoples annual. He didn't make the rules, didn't negotiate with the Union or State, he was just smart enough to make a plan and stick to it....can't fault him for that. For a decade we've been warned about a "total economic collapse" When one system "fails" the others will follow suit, requiring a total re-set....we bitch about how much we have to pay in taxes, fees, permits, registrations, how the SP is a unwitting accomplice to driver extortion, but without all that money going into the system it's going to implode. Maybe like the big investment Banks, the State is also "too big to fail" 
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Posted: 12/11/2016 3:13:11 PM EDT
[#48]
I look at it as a tax on people who are so stupid they elected Cuomo twice and don't have enough sense to leave the state.
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Posted: 12/11/2016 3:45:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like a bunch of guys who didn't pass the test! No way just frustrated with the high taxes. |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 8:43:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FDR was against unions because he wanted a monopoly on power. It's why he tried to stack SCOTUS, for instance. Unions were just one more obstacle to him having unopposed power. Union propaganda? We have none of that. What we HAVE had in my experience are FDR wanna be's on the other side of the table, so it's hardly "incestuous". The Troopers get the salary they do through negotiations, nothing wrong with that. The staties used to be on par with our road patrol; we've fallen behind for a variety of reasons that if discussed at length would turn this thread into a War and Peace length dissertation There are plenty of counties in Upstate where they are the only law enforcement presence in the county, so they do more than speed traps. It's the NYS pension fund. Those Downstate taxpayers are funding the state pension with their taxes as well.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Negotiated? By public unions with elected officials? That is as incestuous as it gets. Even FDR and George Meany were against this. Just look as Trooper salaries. Often well north of 100K, all for sticking it to the public with endless speed traps. Greatly curtailing these and reassigning to real crime cold save big $ You need to study history beyond your union propaganda. http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/03/08/top-ten-reasons-why-public-sector-government-unions-should-be-illegal/ Public unions are a cancer--and a very common denominator in high tax, low freedom states. FDR was against unions because he wanted a monopoly on power. It's why he tried to stack SCOTUS, for instance. Unions were just one more obstacle to him having unopposed power. Union propaganda? We have none of that. What we HAVE had in my experience are FDR wanna be's on the other side of the table, so it's hardly "incestuous". The Troopers get the salary they do through negotiations, nothing wrong with that. The staties used to be on par with our road patrol; we've fallen behind for a variety of reasons that if discussed at length would turn this thread into a War and Peace length dissertation There are plenty of counties in Upstate where they are the only law enforcement presence in the county, so they do more than speed traps. Quoted:
Higher downstate salaries equate to higher downstate pensions...paid for by upstate tax payers with lower salaries...just one more reason to split away from NYC. It's the NYS pension fund. Those Downstate taxpayers are funding the state pension with their taxes as well.... Undoubtedly I am beating my head against the wall, but suffice it to say your understanding of history is not mine. Just look at Greece as an example of public unions run amok. The primary reasons against them are simple: They too often are a monopoly and unlike the real world do not offer a product or service the public is free to reject. Can any part of you deny that there is a monopoly? What does history teach us happens under a monopoly? Hint: Gouging and pain. Most here would readily fire the NYSP for un-safe enforcement, but that's not going to happen. And, no, there is no "negotiation" as the business world understands it. You know, where parties bargain at arm's length and don't have "mandatory arbitration" (now that's an epic scam) and can decide not to do business at all. I surmise you're likely a decent person and we'd probably have a beer or so, but I doubt you've spend much time in the private sector. Virtually EVERY person I've known who is a strong public union supporter has no experience outside of one. They really don't get it. They just can't fathom a world where there is actual competition. Not a fan of speed traps. Tells me the local constabulary is over staffed. An ugly waste of resources for a revenue driven scam. I'd eliminate all stationary traps and have officers look for what they don't see while hiding: tailgating, unsafe passing and more. Plucking the lowest hanging fruit does little but take people's money without enhancing safety in any meaningful way. |
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