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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:57:39 AM EDT
[#1]
First off, I am not sure that member would want you posting that info about him on a open forum like that.
Secondly, the rifle were likely taken for safe keeping since the car was impounded and an inventory is always conducted prior to a tow/impound. Unless a CX4 has it's magazine fixed somehow, it isn't featureless. The pristine bullet sounds suspect, but like scosgt said in that thread, a ballistics test will easily determine where the bullet came from. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:58:01 AM EDT
[#2]
pending on how true the details are... sounds like LPD will be assisting in making this dude rich
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Posted: 4/22/2014 6:03:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
pending on how true the details are... sounds like LPD will be assisting in making this dude rich not in state court maybe federal |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 6:51:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First off, I am not sure that member would want you posting that info about him on a open forum like that. Secondly, the rifle were likely taken for safe keeping since the car was impounded and an inventory is always conducted prior to a tow/impound. Unless a CX4 has it's magazine fixed somehow, it isn't featureless. The pristine bullet sounds suspect, but like scosgt said in that thread, a ballistics test will easily determine where the bullet came from. The original post states that the person who this happened to wanted to share his story with everyone as a warning. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:09:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The original post states that the person who this happened to wanted to share his story with everyone as a warning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First off, I am not sure that member would want you posting that info about him on a open forum like that. Secondly, the rifle were likely taken for safe keeping since the car was impounded and an inventory is always conducted prior to a tow/impound. Unless a CX4 has it's magazine fixed somehow, it isn't featureless. The pristine bullet sounds suspect, but like scosgt said in that thread, a ballistics test will easily determine where the bullet came from. The original post states that the person who this happened to wanted to share his story with everyone as a warning. Ya, I meant the guy who's "beat" was being referred to. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:45:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Hows that saying go. Guilty till proven innocent?
They were probably young adults being taken advantage of. As for the supposed bullet that landed in this douches yard. He couldn't go down there and tell them to stop shooting. Fucking Fudd. And for all you guys that say that their local department are not going to enforce this think again. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:05:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Going to need a really big tub of popcorn IF the LPD decides today to keep the rifles and un-SAFE Act charges are filed.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:16:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Every nys.gov agency at all levels is corrupt at or near the top. It really is that simple.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:17:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First off, I am not sure that member would want you posting that info about him on a open forum like that. Secondly, the rifle were likely taken for safe keeping since the car was impounded and an inventory is always conducted prior to a tow/impound. Unless a CX4 has it's magazine fixed somehow, it isn't featureless. The pristine bullet sounds suspect, but like scosgt said in that thread, a ballistics test will easily determine where the bullet came from.  Personally I would not rely on that ARMR whatever thingiefrom PD Facebook page Patrols responded to a Pavement Road address after a resident there reported that a bullet struck his shed and had nearly struck his son. Patrols located several individuals shooting guns in a quarry across the street from the complainant's residence. The individuals initially denied being responsible. The three individuals were taken back to the station and their vehicle was towed. Patrols conducted an investigation with New York State D.E.C. officers. A 28 year old male subject from Salt Lake City, Utah was found to be responsible for firing the round and was charged with reckless endangerment in the first degree (a class D felony). The subject was arraigned in front of a Town of Lancaster Court justice, who set bail at $2,000.00. The other subjects were released without charges.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:50:21 AM EDT
[#10]
That dark site layout kills my eyes. I made it 3 pages.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:03:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah they did an inventory search when it was towed and impounded. There's nothing puzzling that rifles in a towed car were not there when it was picked up. Also the Storm seems like a big problem SAFE act wise Personally I would not rely on that ARMR whatever thingie
from PD Facebook page Patrols responded to a Pavement Road address after a resident there reported that a bullet struck his shed and had nearly struck his son. Patrols located several individuals shooting guns in a quarry across the street from the complainant's residence. The individuals initially denied being responsible. The three individuals were taken back to the station and their vehicle was towed. Patrols conducted an investigation with New York State D.E.C. officers. A 28 year old male subject from Salt Lake City, Utah was found to be responsible for firing the round and was charged with reckless endangerment in the first degree (a class D felony). The subject was arraigned in front of a Town of Lancaster Court justice, who set bail at $2,000.00. The other subjects were released without charges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First off, I am not sure that member would want you posting that info about him on a open forum like that. Secondly, the rifle were likely taken for safe keeping since the car was impounded and an inventory is always conducted prior to a tow/impound. Unless a CX4 has it's magazine fixed somehow, it isn't featureless. The pristine bullet sounds suspect, but like scosgt said in that thread, a ballistics test will easily determine where the bullet came from. Personally I would not rely on that ARMR whatever thingie
from PD Facebook page Patrols responded to a Pavement Road address after a resident there reported that a bullet struck his shed and had nearly struck his son. Patrols located several individuals shooting guns in a quarry across the street from the complainant's residence. The individuals initially denied being responsible. The three individuals were taken back to the station and their vehicle was towed. Patrols conducted an investigation with New York State D.E.C. officers. A 28 year old male subject from Salt Lake City, Utah was found to be responsible for firing the round and was charged with reckless endangerment in the first degree (a class D felony). The subject was arraigned in front of a Town of Lancaster Court justice, who set bail at $2,000.00. The other subjects were released without charges. How dare an American from the west shoot guns in NYS?! We must make an example out of him. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:11:15 AM EDT
[#12]
So far it would seem no one is being charged with anything unSAFE related.
Only one guy charged with reckless endangerment based on the thread over on nyfirearms, no weapons violations. There is and always has been a lot of herp over on the site. The OP is a lawyer and thinks a stock CX4 Storm is featureless? If the bullet matches the barrel/firing pin on the gun then it's a slam dunk. If it doesn't, then there isn't much in the way of evidence to uphold the charge based on what I've read. The guns were likely found in the inventory for the tow and then seized as evidence in connection to the above charge. And yeah, the color scheme over there kills your eyes 
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:19:58 AM EDT
[#13]
It's been done.
Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 10:12:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? Who cares what one LE agency thinks, or one DA? Each agency and DA can decide it is or is not compliant. This is one of the reasons I was highly skeptical and started a thread to that effect. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 10:20:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant?  |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:04:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/77434-two-compliant-rifles-seized-one-our-members-lancaster-police.html Lots of fishiness here, including a supposed pristine (ie unfired) 9mm bullet produced as "evidence"...will be interesting in seeing how it shakes out...no news on the airwaves here as of yet... Knowing this is Crwdplzer's beat...but I am sure he cannot comment...I would guess Shooter will post some updates later today... In any case we might see how the MR-2 shakes out... In that one instance. They could walk, but that doesn't mean that the PD in the next town over can't or won't charge it. Shit, this PD could let them go and the Sheriff of that county could pick him up and charge for it. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:14:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 Dear lord that is awful looking. Fiberglass auto body filler would have been a better choice. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:33:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If don't think the opinion of the Lancaster PD (wherever that is) carries a lot of weight Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? No, I wouldn't think so either. lol |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:50:05 AM EDT
[#19]
A decision to return the rifles and not press forward with any un-SAFE charges could also have more to do with the sketchy nature of how the evidence was obtained and less to do with the opinion of the MR2 device. Speculation has been rampant since last night, but one thing is certain: DA's don't like to lose.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:54:51 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm not comfortable with the MR2 myself & would not feel comfortable risking my freedom on it. But the DA not charging anyone with a safe violation & actually letting the Police hand the MR2 equipped AR15 back to the owner is a good sign, no?
I would think if they felt it was a safe violation they would not want to let an unregistered evil baby killing machine loose in our society! |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:56:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not comfortable with the MR2 myself. Nor am I.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:57:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Lets just say I may or may not be very familiar with the situation and it's pretty clear that some suburban officers were really really bored.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lets just say I may or may not be very familiar with the situation and it's pretty clear that some suburban officers were really really bored. That's what I'd do if I were bored, go out and arrest somebody on some BS charge and have their car towed and broken into. Not. Glad I have better things to do and a job which requires responsibility and accountability. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 12:39:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/77434-two-compliant-rifles-seized-one-our-members-lancaster-police.html In any case we might see how the MR-2 shakes out... |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 1:49:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, this will be interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/77434-two-compliant-rifles-seized-one-our-members-lancaster-police.html In any case we might see how the MR-2 shakes out... very interesting, Since DEC police were involved (DEC police are state police) Does this say anything about the NYSP's stance on the MR2 ? Has anyone seen the NYSP education session videos on the SAFE ACT they keep referencing over on NY Firearms? If they are online I'd appreciate a link. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 2:10:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
very interesting, Since DEC police were involved (DEC police are state police) Does this say anything about the NYSP's stance on the MR2 ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/77434-two-compliant-rifles-seized-one-our-members-lancaster-police.html In any case we might see how the MR-2 shakes out... very interesting, Since DEC police were involved (DEC police are state police) Does this say anything about the NYSP's stance on the MR2 ? No. It doesn't. If there is one thing(s) people like to do on these forums (and I am not picking on you) it's speculate, jump to conclusions, and blow things out of proportion. All based off of a story we read 3rd hand on a gun forum. I do not know what the NYSP have been told, but I can strongly assure you that the other state LE agencies have not put a half of a fraction of seconds worth of time into considering the legality of an MR2. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 2:18:04 PM EDT
[#27]
If the Storm isn't compliant he better quick call the tip line and turn the cops in for the reward.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:36:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? Rifles were not returned today per Shooter on NYF. A suit will be filed and other action taken if LPD doesn't return the rifles asap. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:52:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rifles were not returned today per Shooter on NYF. A suit will be filed and other action taken if LPD doesn't return the rifles asap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? Rifles were not returned today per Shooter on NYF. A suit will be filed and other action taken if LPD doesn't return the rifles asap. The fact that Shooter refused to say whether there was a magazine in the AR or not to me is rather telling. If the MR2 was welded in so the mag would not drop, I bet he'd be pointing that out. My GUESS, I have no knowledge of whether it was or not, the MR2 was installed in a way that the mag would still drop and to admit such could jeopardize his client. I don't blame Shooter for being tight lipped. I have however taken issue with language he has used in the past that might well have given people false confidence in the legality of the MR2. 
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:53:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Well here we go
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:54:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that Shooter refused to say whether there was a magazine in the AR or not to me is rather telling. If the MR2 was welded in so the mag would not drop, I bet he'd be pointing that out. My GUESS, I have no knowledge of whether it was or not, the MR2 was installed in a way that the mag would still drop and to admit such could jeopardize his client. I don't blame Shooter for being tight lipped. I have however taken issue with language he has used in the past that might well have given people false confidence in the legality of the MR2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? Rifles were not returned today per Shooter on NYF. A suit will be filed and other action taken if LPD doesn't return the rifles asap. The fact that Shooter refused to say whether there was a magazine in the AR or not to me is rather telling. If the MR2 was welded in so the mag would not drop, I bet he'd be pointing that out. My GUESS, I have no knowledge of whether it was or not, the MR2 was installed in a way that the mag would still drop and to admit such could jeopardize his client. I don't blame Shooter for being tight lipped. I have however taken issue with language he has used in the past that might well have given people false confidence in the legality of the MR2. Isn't that the whole point of the MR2, though? To be able to drop the mag when you disassemble the rifle? What good would welding it be? |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:28:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't that the whole point of the MR2, though? To be able to drop the mag when you disassemble the rifle? What good would welding it be? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's been done. Featureless CX4 Storm http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254509 I also was told the AR15 With the MR2 installed was returned to the owner, does this mean the Police feel the MR 2 is Safe compliant? Rifles were not returned today per Shooter on NYF. A suit will be filed and other action taken if LPD doesn't return the rifles asap. The fact that Shooter refused to say whether there was a magazine in the AR or not to me is rather telling. If the MR2 was welded in so the mag would not drop, I bet he'd be pointing that out. My GUESS, I have no knowledge of whether it was or not, the MR2 was installed in a way that the mag would still drop and to admit such could jeopardize his client. I don't blame Shooter for being tight lipped. I have however taken issue with language he has used in the past that might well have given people false confidence in the legality of the MR2. Isn't that the whole point of the MR2, though? To be able to drop the mag when you disassemble the rifle? What good would welding it be? Then the "point of it" will likely land you in pound in the ass prison in NY. I have passed along what the State Police experts have told me, shit one of them posts here. If the "non-detachable magazine" can be removed with common hand tools, they don't consider it non-detachable. You can argue with that interpretation all you want, but as several lawyers have pointed out here, in the absence of a statutory definition the courts will use the common definition. In such case detachable will likely be defined as capable of being removed without damaging whatever host it is attached to or the magazine itself. If you weld the MR2 screw, you have to destroy the mag catch to remove the mag. Agree with it, don't agree with it, but that's what you will be up against. Arguing that pushing a pin and opening your upper and lower a fraction of an inch to release a mag renders the rile not an assault weapon isn't likely to fly - please note id LOVE to wrong about that. f you want to risk it, be my guest. From my recollection Aimless, BushBoar, and other lawyers have backed up this interpretation as most likely. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:37:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip. Not arguing the MR2, I tend to agree with you and I will take the advice from our local expert, just simply saying why spend $50 on an MR2 to weld it when you can perm. fix the mag for under $1. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:46:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not arguing the MR2, I tend to agree with you and I will take the advice from our local expert, just simply saying why spend $50 on an MR2 to weld it when you can perm. fix the mag for under $1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip. Not arguing the MR2, I tend to agree with you and I will take the advice from our local expert, just simply saying why spend $50 on an MR2 to weld it when you can perm. fix the mag for under $1. Point taken. Absolutely no point in buying the MR2 other than it probably looks cleaner.
Seriously, the $1 nut, washer, and weld is just as effective and cannot be argued that its trying to circumvent detachable by being too cute by half. Sorry if I didn't pick up on your point, it's late. 
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Posted: 4/23/2014 3:08:18 AM EDT
[#35]
I agree, the MR2 makes no sense unless there is some kind of actual approval by the state.
It seems to push the California bullet button to the extreme edge of the cliff, Is the MR2 even California Legal? In my opinion the $1 welded nut & washer is the best idea, if appearance matters to you (& you have the skills) a $5 California legal bullet button with the hole welded (is brazing over the hole as good as welding?) over is also good, if some enterprising gunsmith would offer this as a service he would get really busy fast! |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:43:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:14:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. Destroy your property to appease us. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:17:32 AM EDT
[#39]
I have seen in some LGS where the screw hole in the grip is filled with epoxy. Same idea I guess as using red loctite on the screw. I'm not familiar with red loctite, but my understanding is that heat is required to loosen it to the point where you get the screw out.
I know the law does not say anything about modifications and permanence, so we don't need to go there. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:18:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:27:12 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen in some LGS where the screw hole in the grip is filled with epoxy. Same idea I guess as using red loctite on the screw. I'm not familiar with red loctite, but my understanding is that heat is required to loosen it to the point where you get the screw out. I know the law does not say anything about modifications and permanence, so we don't need to go there. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:16:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:28:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:09:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. But if that's what NYSP believes... |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:15:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Perhaps all shotguns should be outlaws as being one common hand tool away from being a short barrel shotgun.
Just about anything on a gun can be changed with a common hand tool... You can turn any shotgun into a short barrel shotgun, any rifle into an sbr, and any pistol into an sbr with common hand tools. Hacksaws are pretty common and easy to use. You better not have an SKS, 10/22, or saiga. With common hand tools you can remove an SKS magazine. With common hand tools you can make a 10/22 stock non-compliant or replace the stock. With common handtools you can change the stock on a saiga. I don't believe that interpretation/assertion will stand the test of time once there is enough case law. If the "common hand tool" test became precedent the scope of the law will be grossly expanded to basically any semi-auto rifles that do not have an extremely permanently attached magazines. I can only hope that cases end up before decent judges/juries with attorneys that understand firearms. I agree that at this point if you are modifying your firearm to be in compliance with this shitty law you should modify it in such a way that it is clearly and obviously compliant. Grossly obvious permanent modifications are the best way to go. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:32:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP. This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. Really, most people would have those in the home like they would a screw driver, pliers, hammer? No, they would not. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:43:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really, most people would have those in the home like they would a screw driver, pliers, hammer? No, they would not.  I keed I keed...in my line of work it isn't uncommon for me to pull a production quality tap out of my pocket when I do my "just walked in the door pocket dump" at the end of the day. I currently have a one cup holder in my truck occupied by a tap handle...can't remember why... |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:47:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Red LOCTITE says it is "PERMANENT" right on the label, that is all you need to prove you tried to make your mod PERMANENT in good faith.
http://www.rcdude.com/catalog/Threadlocker-Red2.jpg LOL
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:47:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Sorry, double post
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:57:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really, most people would have those in the home like they would a screw driver, pliers, hammer? No, they would not. Acetone,MEK, gasoline, or heat will remove red loctite easily enough too. On something as small as a PG screw it isn't hard to defeat with a lttle extra torque with regular hand tools. BTDT many times. It is cool that they think it is permanent though. |
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