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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:03:50 PM EDT
[#1]
It's legal, not the best caliber choice, but perfectly legal.
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:04:59 PM EDT
[#2]
.223 is fine for deer as far as I know.
My sister in law has always used an AR for deer. As the 9mm people say, "its all about shot placement". |
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:10:37 PM EDT
[#3]
As long as it's centerfire, it's legal...not wise maybe, but legal.
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:19:19 PM EDT
[#4]
It's not my first choice either, but my .308 Mossy is not mine anymore and the only rifle I have with glass is one of my AR's. I'm using a shotgun here but when I head over to Buffalo it's either going to be that AR or perhaps one of my K98's, still not sure yet. I know about the "shot placement", every deer I have hit have all dropped! I'm not bragging or anything but that was with a .243 and even a 22-250
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:31:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Win 64grn Power Point is a proven deer killer. .223 is not the best, but will do the job with good shot placement........
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:37:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Sounds good I'll have to pick some up and get it sighted in. |
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Shot placement is most important.
My son still uses a 22 hornet for deer hunting. I think he could probably use it for dove hunting. I never had to teach him to shoot. He spent years learning to respect a gun. I took him when he was 10 with his .22 hornet. Shot was perfect. Quartered away and shot. Entered right behind front left leg and demolished the front right shoulder. Holed both lungs Never exited. Deer took 2 steps and fell over. He got 2 last year. Both single shot kills. Still have never had to track a wounded deer yet. Last year I taught him to skin his second. I think this year, I may just sit in the stand with him and watch. But anyway. Back to the point. 22 isn't the best caliber for deer. There is the chance of a lot of pain and suffering if you don't hit them right. However, more deer have been killed in TX with a 22 l/r than any other caliber. Now, I would imagine most of those are also off-season, but....... |
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Posted: 9/30/2008 12:44:20 PM EDT
[#8]
First Deer I ever killed was with a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in .222 at 6 years old.
yes, .222 The thing dropped like a rock. I think i was a better shot back then than i am now. I believe Texas law is that any centerfire cartridge is legal for game animals. <- true for whitetail deer, but not completely true. See below. Edit for link www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/
It is interesting to note that in Texas, muzzloading does NOT include breech loading blackpowder rifles.
Not relevant to the topic, but interesting anyway. I never knew that. I also did not know that it is illegal in certain counties to trail a wounded deer with a dog. Wonder why? Potential for abuse? Also, the tpwd site is great. All sorts of good info on it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2008 1:22:35 PM EDT
[#9]
killed some deer with q3131, fragmenting 55gr 5.56. I have yet to go out with my 308
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Posted: 9/30/2008 1:36:29 PM EDT
[#10]
I really am glad it worked out for you with the Q3131, but I hope that most would not choose a fragmenting ammo in 223/5.56 on medium sized game you hope to recover. I've killed many pigs with Q3131A and XM193 but I have lost quite a few as well. Of those I recovered they were all found DRT. Those that ran off were very hard to track and some were lost. For deer I would go with a expanding round like the Powerpoint or Barnes TSX |
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Posted: 9/30/2008 2:22:16 PM EDT
[#11]
I am an EXPERT tracker due to my first rifle being 223.
 Might have lost the skill though cuz I use a 300wsm now 
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Posted: 9/30/2008 3:23:55 PM EDT
[#12]
The counties listed as illegal to blood trail with a dog are the ones where people still like to run deer with dogs, law be damned. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 4:49:34 PM EDT
[#13]
AR15 with 60-65gr SP seem to work great if you pick your shots. Sure has alot less damage than my 308 on these puny Texas does.
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Posted: 10/1/2008 5:26:05 PM EDT
[#14]
have you ever had deer that have been trailed? tough, rancid and nasty foul tasting. they say that the adrenaline adds "something" to the meat to make it taste "wild".  op. 223 is good for deer. blast away! i bet you shoot better than the jerkoff one pasture over with his thuddy-thuddy who has to empty the full mag about dawn. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 6:02:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Curious if anyone has tried 60 gr. Partitions? I bought some for use on hogs, as I prefer my 7-08 (with 140 Parts) for whitetails.
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Posted: 10/1/2008 6:17:47 PM EDT
[#16]
I grew up in Mississippi and hunted for many years in a deer camp that ran dogs. The meat doesn't really taste any different. The deer that is dropped in their tracks seems to be better than those that run aways and have to be tracked. IMO |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 6:35:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Legal, yes... Ethical, no. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 7:36:42 PM EDT
[#18]
That's bullshit: 
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Posted: 10/1/2008 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#19]
I saw a hunter just last year make a 200 yard shot on a doe with a .222. Dropped like a rock. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 8:55:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Texas deer are almost always under 100 pounds. Seems likea few of you are trying to tell me that .020" in caliber choice is going to make a huge difference in putting down that 85# animal?
Yah...right..... Use the .223 and enjoy some of the great new ammo choices out there for it. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 8:58:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Wow, what is that...like a 65-pounder? I bet that was some tender meat that will never produce offspring. I am from the group that considers 5.56x45 to be a little light for ethical harvesting of Whitetails, regardless of however small they may be considered in some parts of the great state of TX as compared to other parts of the country. To each his own, but I'll stick with my 7-08, and only shoot mature animals. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 3:43:53 AM EDT
[#22]
that looks like an east Texas white tail. it could be a 5 year old doe. the head looks la little narrow but the only way to be sure is to check it’s teeth. Ethics are a funny thing. It’s not ethical to shoot deer with a gun you are not 100% confident with. It’s far worse to take a shot with a 300win mag that you flinch with than a AR15 that you can shoot like a laser beam. There are also a lot of folks who will tell you that any “X” is not ethical while “Y” is. AR-15’s aren’t, automatics aren’t , any center fire isn’t, any gun isn’t, modern compound bows aren’t. when we start to whittle it away we won’t have anything. Sound familiar? In the end you have to ask what is best for the animal and ultimately did you kill it effectively and humanely. The .223 will humanely kill deer. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 4:56:28 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't eat the ribs, and it does a hell of a lot more damage than a softpoint or expanding round. If you are suggesting a round that will go through them for a easier blood trail to follow, then yes a hp will go through them. I don't have enough put down for an accurate "scientific average", that would be in the thousands of deer being shot with a particular load. I shoot them right behind the shoulder blade, going through the lungs and heart. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 4:57:37 AM EDT
[#24]
good point |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:19:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Most people I know that shoot with 30 caliber rifles think you have to shoot them in the chest "blows bigger holes". Also makes the deer run 100 yards before they die. Shoot them in the top of the shoulder or in the neck. Neck is better, saves more meat. I grew up shooting a 22-250. Same bullet as a .223, Drops them like a rock.
As far as Texas deer being under 100#, hunt south texas a little. heres a link to my home town's big buck contest. big bucks They used to have a biggest coyote, hog, bobcat, etc. We always tried for the hog and coyote. And for those that are thinking high fence, We hunted open field. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:23:37 AM EDT
[#26]
I agree with your argument on the caliber choice, but dude, don't act like you can age from that photo. ETA: Page two!!! |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:37:44 AM EDT
[#27]
+1 my first deer rifle was a cut down ruger no1 in .223. I still have it. it will be my daughters first rifle. it has killed a lot of hill country deer and never lost one. when you learn to hunt with a single shot, you know you only have 1 shot and to make it count. that's stayed with me ever since. have I dropped things on the run? oh yes, #2, #3, etc. first shot hits the ground. two years ago myself and a buddy sat together in a very productive blind to try and thin the deer herd. I dropped 3 with 55gr TAP from my AR (only shot 3 times). all got eaten. conversely, I shot a nice size axis doe with my weatherby 30-378 (180gr barnes x) and had the damn thing run 200 yards before falling over missing half her heart. so yes, you can overkill something with the wrong ammo the only reason I hunt with my socom now is for the 200+ lb hogs that come in. that's a different ball game. correct ammo and shot placement. if you dont have a good shot, dont take it. if you cant put a shot in a 3" circle at 200 yards, you need to practice more before hitting the woods. now, would I hunt S TX with an AR? no. larger deer and longer shots. hill country? any day of the week, twice on saturdays. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:59:18 AM EDT
[#28]
75gr Hornady TAP
and 77gr SMKs Both should do wonders on deer, they work on people. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 7:14:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Never lost a deer shot with a .223, and I've shot several. I usually carry something a bit bigger, though.
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Posted: 10/2/2008 7:16:14 AM EDT
[#30]
i didn't. 
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Posted: 10/2/2008 7:32:21 AM EDT
[#31]
That's interesting so if I hunted with the lower shotgun barrel of a LeMat revolver I would meet the requirements of the law? |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 10:56:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, ethics are a matter of opinion. While you can certainly kill a deer (especially one that is about the size of a dog) with a .22LR, that doesn't make it ethical either. Its not just bullet diameter, its also that a .243 generally is pushing a much heavier bullet (95-100gr) at only slightly lower velocity (2800-3000fps) than a .223 which means it has a lot more downrange energy. The likelihood of a quick, clean kill is much higher even if the deer starts or for some other reason despite the hunter's best efforts, shot placement isn't quite perfect. I'm glad people around here say they've never lost a deer they've shot with .223, but I'm afraid that a lot of other people aren't so fortunate. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 11:16:14 AM EDT
[#33]
so you dont buy in to things like kinetic energy and such? example, hitting a deer with a 55gr bthp from a 220 swift is going to do a lot more damage than a 100gr anything fired from a .243. I have some experience with both calibers and the damage they do on sub 150lb animals. so smaller bullets are more than capable of doing tremendous damage. like I said, the most I've ever had to chase an animal is with the largest rifle I own. you'd be hard pressed to find someone hunting TX with a larger caliber than the WBY 30-378. the X bullet I shot my axis with punched a neat hole all the way thru the doe and kept going. so did the doe. conversely, the rifle I own that has killed the most animals is a 22 mag. I'll also go on record to say that I've passed on a lot of shots because I didnt feel I had a kill shot (brush in the way, distance too far, etc). so maybe that has something to do with it. granted, there are also two schools of thought to contend with. small and fast vs large and slow as always YMMV |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 12:47:09 PM EDT
[#34]
But when you compare .223 to .243 you are comparing small and fast to much larger and almost as fast. You are talking apples and oranges when you substitute .220 Swift, because its cranking bullets out 500+fps more than a .223 Rem. .22-250 or .220 Swift would certainly be more ethical for small hill country deer than .223 Rem, but I'd still prefer a .243 or larger. As for your failure with your Weatherby didn't you say you were using a Barnes X bullet? Do you think a Barnes X bullet from a .223 would have had a better result? If you'd used something like a Nosler Partition in the Wxby, I think your result might have been different... My experience has been with .224" bullets is that they usually don't expand as reliably as larger diameters. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 1:22:41 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 10/2/2008 3:47:00 PM EDT
[#36]
I prefer a relatively large entry wound, and an even larger exit wound; Nosler Partitions have seemed to provide this combination quite consistently over the past 20+ years. While some might argue that the projectile exiting the animal means that terminal energy has not been effectively transmitted, two holes makes for a better blood trail, if needed.
While the vast majority of my harvests have been dead where previously standing, I have seen mortally wounded animals inexplicably somehow manage to run for several hundred yards; whitetails can be some damn tough critters! This is not to suggest that one should use a hyper-magnum, and in fact, quite the contrary. But, there is a significant difference between an 08/06 cartridge and a .223 Rem in terms of downrange energy. One particular hunt that comes to mind is a 140+ 8-point that I was fortunate enough to have a shot at. He was grazing at about 260 yards in a herd of probably 60 animals. I neglected to verify my backstop, and ended up also taking out another 8-point about 35 yards behind him with a single shot from the 7-08. My tags were good, so everything was 100% legal, but I learned a valuable lesson that day. Sure, whitetails can be effectively killed with a .223, but why not hedge ones odds with something of a little bit more ass. Of course, shot placement is always critical. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 5:00:44 PM EDT
[#37]
funny. when we hunted down south, the most animals killed with a single shot was 3 medium sized hogs taken with another 30-378 (intentionally)
with larger calibers, you definetely need to be careful of what's behind your target. (a good practice with all calibers, to be sure) hunt long enough, you'll have a story about tracking down a deer with no organs left intact or complete lack of blood. energetic critters, the white tail deer. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 5:27:39 PM EDT
[#38]
this is a stupid argument. A 223 can, will and does kill deer. It does so consistantly and reliably.
Killing deer reliably is ethical. End of story. If you want to kill deer "better" than me fine but drop dead in it's tracks is all that is required and trying to say that is not enough is silly. Saying dead and a baseball sized exit wound is bad but a soft ball sized wound is ethical is likewise silly |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:47:51 PM EDT
[#39]
The meat was delicious, thank you very much. Go F yourself, it was legal and I wanted some meat. Some of you guys, sheesh. |
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Posted: 10/3/2008 4:55:59 PM EDT
[#40]
i bet .22 long rifle (or equivalent) has killed more deer than most other calibewrs combined.
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Posted: 10/4/2008 9:30:55 AM EDT
[#41]
As the primary means of deer "hunting" in Texas is ambush from a stand near a feeder .223 will be just fine.
Yeah, I said that. The deer are small, ranges are short and the terrain is flat in most of the state. I grew up hunting deer in the mountains of West Virginia with a 30.06 and the south of Illinois with a 12 gauge. (no rifles allowed in the People's Republic of Illinois for hunting) We did not feed them in the off season and wait for them to come to dinner to shoot them when season opened. I do not find the Texas method either sporting or challenging. Bring on the hate. |
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Posted: 10/4/2008 9:37:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Yeah, by poachers. Which of course is not only unethical it is illegal. Has to be center fire to be legal in Texas unless I'm mistaken. |
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Posted: 10/4/2008 2:22:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Read the fucking thread! |
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Posted: 10/4/2008 2:44:15 PM EDT
[#44]
dude. chill out. the guy's name is "SoftwareJanitor". based on that alone you got to cut him some slack 
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Posted: 10/4/2008 2:55:55 PM EDT
[#45]
I've shot deer with both. The .223 Rem, when loaded with medium game bullets like the 64 Win PP, the 65 Sierra GK or the 75 grain Swift, produces IDENTICAL WOUNDS as a 100 grain .243 Win. End of story. There isn't a bit of difference. Now when a varmit bullet is used in either, the wounds are...STILL THE SAME. Imagine THAT. I have even hunted with a .22 Hornet using high velocity bullets. Sierra makes "Hornet" and "High Velocity" 45 grain bullets. The Hornet bullets have thinner jackets. The HVs penetrate much deeper and still expand. It takes more shot placement but they will completely take out the heart. |
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Posted: 10/5/2008 12:58:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Texas hunting laws:
Any centerfire caliber is permissable No magazine capacity rules The only operation type banned is full-auto (semi-auto is good to go) Silencers cannot be used on game animals, only pest animals (like coyotes) Laser sights and night vision scopes are banned for use on game animals, but every other type of sight (red dot, holographic, etc.) is legal; you can use lasers and NV on pest animals .223 is perfectly fine for deer and feral pig in Texas, so long as you use the proper ammunition and don't fuck up your shot placement. AR-15's are the most common semi-auto rifle used for hunting in North America, and rapidly becoming the most common model of rifle used in hunting period. I would NOT recommend .223 for bigger Texas game like audad. Those fuckers are hard to take with a .308 or .30-06 unless you're at fairly close range and have really good shot placement. I've had one shrug off a .30-30 to the chest at less than thirty yards and just get pissed off. Didn't even leave a blood trail. They just bang-flop with a .264 Win Mag though.
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Posted: 10/5/2008 7:17:45 AM EDT
[#47]
on the first page of this thread www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/ |
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Posted: 10/5/2008 9:50:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Why the hell would a grown ass man use .223 for deer?
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Posted: 10/5/2008 10:36:10 AM EDT
[#49]
let me answer that. 1. familiarity. i shoot 3000 rounds a year thru my ARs. maybe 100 rounds thru all my other rifles. 2. it will do the job. 3. i like shooting the gun. 3oo winmag that bruises my shoulder after 20 rounds not so much. 4. i can hit what i aim at with the upmost confidence. 5. it's fun to piss off the fuds. 6. reliability and ease of use. no dinking with bolts or a few rounds. just load a mag and fire. 7. the gun is cool. everyone has a 30-30 or a aught six. 8. it fits me exactly. i don't have to have a custom stock made. 9. target trigger installed. 10. it's my right to hunt with any legal gun and i choose to exercise that right! |
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Posted: 10/5/2008 11:06:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Do you even hunt? I don't understand how anyone who is an experienced hunter here in Texas would ask that question. I've shot just about anything you can in Texas from birds to four legged animals. I've used a lot of different calibers on those four legged animals, including pistols. I have no qualms about using fragmenting 556 or softpoint 223. I've had more internal damage done to the animals with fragmenting q3131 than my 308 will do in a hp or sp. DoC |
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