Watch the long video and give me your thoughts.

Wow

Things surely haven't gotten this bad, or have they?

Tony

& they will get worse, oh hang on.......they have.

Unfortunately that is life in England today.....the politicians care more about protecting themselves than anything else..

To quote an elderly Labour politician - "We're the masters now"

I think that above all, New Labour have demonstrated that power corrupts, and as ever, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The latest 42 day detention bill is only the most recent in a long line of increased powers that New Labour can't resist.

Remember the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act - apparently only to be used for terrorism, serious and organised crime - now used by local councils to enforce rubbish bin by-laws.

Or perhaps the Extradition Treaty with the US - apparently only for terrorists. So far, it's only been used for action which aren't even crimes in the UK and the US has refused to ratify it in case we use it to extradite IRA criminals from the US.

The only hope is for the government to become even weaker in parliament and limp on without being able to do anything for the next 2 years.

I take great hope from the example of Belgium, which managed without a government for almost a year - nothing stopped working, the trains ran, bins emptied etc. It was only when the professional politicians realised that people were beginning to finally understand that the country was running itself perfectly well without a bunch of politicians that they decided to form a coalition government -  which is so divided that it really won't do anything at all - probably the safest situation for any country to be in!

Rant over!

Quoted: Watch the long video and give me your thoughts. Wow Things surely haven't gotten this bad, or have they? Tony

Yes Tony, I fear they have got that bad. The anti-terrorism legislation is now used by local councils to monitor the rubbish you put out in the bin and where your dog has a crap. ISPs are required to retain e-amails and website access records, the phone companies must log all numbers called and duration of all calls, and this is before we get going with ID cards or tracking transponders in your car for "road pricing" purposes.

We are heading increasingly rapidly down the slippery slope of totalitarianism, as some of the incidents recalled in the video and stuff you see daily in the UK media emphasise. Hopefully the days of this appalling Government are numbered, but as we all know getting laws repealed just never seems to happen, even with a change of Government.

Quoted: Quoted: Watch the long video and give me your thoughts. Wow Things surely haven't gotten this bad, or have they? Tony Yes Tony, I fear they have got that bad. The anti-terrorism legislation is now used by local councils to monitor the rubbish you put out in the bin and where your dog has a crap. ISPs are required to retain e-amails and website access records, the phone companies must log all numbers called and duration of all calls, and this is before we get going with ID cards or tracking transponders in your car for "road pricing" purposes. We are heading increasingly rapidly down the slippery slope of totalitarianism, as some of the incidents recalled in the video and stuff you see daily in the UK media emphasise. Hopefully the days of this appalling Government are numbered, but as we all know getting laws repealed just never seems to happen, even with a change of Government.

Totalitarianism can only survive where there is a submissive and oppressed population who cannot, and will not stand up against their oppressors. The more the powers-that-be push the population into a corner the more extreme the reaction will be in removing the oppressive regime.

Its called a Revolution....there have been lots of them throughout history and they are nearly always successful in changing things. Revolutions are brought about by injustice and mis-use of power.

The politicians and law makers have forgotten that the citizens of a country allow their political roles to exist, and without popular support they have no power. Their laws only have sway if the majority abide by them.....

Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Really How so? Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread I'd like to hear Steve's take on this too

Tony

Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread

Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall!

Get it right guys, the police are not the policy makers but mearly carring out their duties, and anything less would and should be a worry for us all.

My condolences to you all.
This explains the article I saw today:

Man threatened with arrest at Heathrow for wearing Transformers T-shirt Evening Standard, UK An airline passenger claimed that a security guard threatened to arrest him because he was wearing a T-shirt showing a cartoon robot with a gun. Brad Jayakody, 30, from London, said he was stopped from passing through security at Heathrow's Terminal 5 after his Transformers T-shirt was deemed 'offensive.' The IT consultant was set to fly off on a business trip to Dusseldorf in Germany when he was pulled to one side. Brad Jayakody wearing the Transformers T-shift which caused offence at Heathrow Mr Jayakody said the first guard started joking with him about the Transformers character depicted on his French Connection T-shirt. '"Then he explains that since Megatron (sic) (it's actually Optimus Prime) is holding a gun, I'm not allowed to fly,' he said. 'It's a 40ft tall cartoon robot with a gun as an arm. There is no way this shirt is offensive in any way, and what I'm going to use the shirt to pretend I have a gun? He was cooperative with the supervisor and took off the the 'offensive' T-shirt, replacing it with another shirt in his carry on luggage. A spokesman for Heathrow operator BAA said: 'If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it. 'We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category. 'If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset.' He said there was no record of the incident and the passenger 'certainly didn't make a formal complaint at the time.'

Quoted: Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall!

We are always between two walls, on one side the largely well-meaning but misinformed public and on the other the largely self-serving, useless and inept government....

Quoted: Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Really How so? Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread I'd like to hear Steve's take on this too Tony

I got bored after 40 mins....same old, same old..............

Quoted: My condolences to you all. This explains the article I saw today: Man threatened with arrest at Heathrow for wearing Transformers T-shirt Evening Standard, UK An airline passenger claimed that a security guard threatened to arrest him because he was wearing a T-shirt showing a cartoon robot with a gun. Brad Jayakody, 30, from London, said he was stopped from passing through security at Heathrow's Terminal 5 after his Transformers T-shirt was deemed 'offensive.' i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/02/article-1023560-0174F68100000578-917_468x634.jpg The IT consultant was set to fly off on a business trip to Dusseldorf in Germany when he was pulled to one side. Brad Jayakody wearing the Transformers T-shift which caused offence at Heathrow Mr Jayakody said the first guard started joking with him about the Transformers character depicted on his French Connection T-shirt. '"Then he explains that since Megatron (sic) (it's actually Optimus Prime) is holding a gun, I'm not allowed to fly,' he said. 'It's a 40ft tall cartoon robot with a gun as an arm. There is no way this shirt is offensive in any way, and what I'm going to use the shirt to pretend I have a gun? He was cooperative with the supervisor and took off the the 'offensive' T-shirt, replacing it with another shirt in his carry on luggage. A spokesman for Heathrow operator BAA said: 'If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it. 'We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category. 'If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset.' He said there was no record of the incident and the passenger 'certainly didn't make a formal complaint at the time.'

There is either more to this or I call BS. Since when have security guards had a power of arrest....

Quoted: Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall!

Ah well, at least I'll be in good company stood next to ACR26 & RN-Submariner.....and you know where you can stick your blindfold........

ETA: Sorry chaps, didn't mean to leave you out, you can stand next to us as representatives of the oppressive state regime:

Bodie, Badger 66, Bunnyassassin, BusPassWarrior, 1 Turk, Lone Sniper, Scope Eye?


So who do/did you work for Vito?

What shall we talk about now...?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Things were always this bad in Britain Icarus the Plod's missing from this thread Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall! We are always between two walls, on one side the largely well-meaning but misinformed public and on the other the largely self-serving, useless and inept government....

This is the sort of answer that helps us see things from your unenviable position. I have worked security for a TV company and I got to hate the Reporter mentality with a passion, and learned to despise their Vulture/carrion approach to a story. Their approach sets the speed for the whole documentary. The new laws & powers that have been introduced were disconcerting facts, that may or may not be something to worry about until you fall foul of them.........

Tony

Quoted: Get it right guys, the police are not the policy makers but mearly carring out their duties, and anything less would and should be a worry for us all.

Nuremburg said 'I was just obeying orders' is no defence……

We thankfully have one of the security forces in the world both military and police and that comes from obeying orders and not acting like a gang of vigilanties who get their way by having the biggest stick.

Quoted: Quoted: Get it right guys, the police are not the policy makers but mearly carring out their duties, and anything less would and should be a worry for us all. Nuremburg said 'I was just obeying orders' is no defence……

Every person is driven by their own values and conscience or lack thereof. I'm surprised that with your insight you fail to recognise that, or have you just got a new wooden spoon?

Quoted: Quoted: Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall! Ah well, at least I'll be in good company stood next to ACR26 & RN-Submariner.....and you know where you can stick your blindfold........

Er, I don't think so.

The armed forces are never seen in the same light as the fascist bully-boys glorious police force. Have you seen the news lately?
Middle England is increasingly disillusioned with the role and effectiveness of the police, but the armed forces are respected more and more as their efforts at home and abroad are recognised.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Get it right guys, the police are not the policy makers but mearly carring out their duties, and anything less would and should be a worry for us all. Nuremburg said 'I was just obeying orders' is no defence…… Every person is driven by their own values and conscience or lack thereof. I'm surprised that with your insight you fail to recognise that, or have you just got a new wooden spoon?

<cough> Battle of Orgreave <cough>

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Come the revolution his sort will be first against the wall! Ah well, at least I'll be in good company stood next to ACR26 & RN-Submariner.....and you know where you can stick your blindfold........ Er, I don't think so. The armed forces are never seen in the same light as the fascist bully-boys glorious police force. Have you seen the news lately? Middle England is increasingly disillusioned with the role and effectiveness of the police, but the armed forces are respected more and more as their efforts at home and abroad are recognised.

...and when the police are overthrown and defeated by Vito and his revolutionaries, who will the government put on the streets then..?, in fact long before that happened.....

When I was a young and idealistic Midshipman in Her Majesty's Royal Navy I once argued that the military are not the lackeys of the government and would not do something that they as a body thought to be morally wrong. I was assured by my tutors, senior Naval instructors all, that I was wrong.............

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Get it right guys, the police are not the policy makers but mearly carring out their duties, and anything less would and should be a worry for us all. Nuremburg said 'I was just obeying orders' is no defence…… Every person is driven by their own values and conscience or lack thereof. I'm surprised that with your insight you fail to recognise that, or have you just got a new wooden spoon? <cough> Battle of Orgreave <cough>

Perspective is everything. You heard about the terrible heavy handedness of the Police, and in some instances I would agree. Of course there was nothing malicious about the bricks, bottles, welded nail clusters and other stuff being thrown at the police. I would have thought you would be aware of how close it was to being handed over to the Army to resolve.

I don't suppose either that you heard much about the other largely peaceful protests that went on, good relations between police and protestors. Nor the food parcels, supplies and cash collections that many officers spent their overtime money on and distributed amongst the miners and their families when they went back on subsequent tours..................No, thought not, otherwise your shit-stirring would just be malicious and you're not that kind of guy are you.

Quoted: Quoted: When I was a young and idealistic Midshipman in Her Majesty's Royal Navy I once argued that the military are not the lackeys of the government and would not do something that they as a body thought to be morally wrong. I was assured by my tutors, senior Naval instructors all, that I was wrong............. And given the opportunity excuse, you, Taffy's brother, ACR, RN-Subby, Badger, etc etc will be put to full use quelling the rest of us. Don't think for one moment that this, or any other British government would use martial law to squash any uprising

That's pretty crass Mark, 'given the opportunity/excuse' implies a desire. You truly believe the police and military would actually want to get heavy with the populace, regardless of what that populace were trying to achieve?

At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose.

Icarus..mate

you can always count on me

Quoted: Quoted: When I was a young and idealistic Midshipman in Her Majesty's Royal Navy I once argued that the military are not the lackeys of the government and would not do something that they as a body thought to be morally wrong. I was assured by my tutors, senior Naval instructors all, that I was wrong............. And given the opportunity excuse, you, Taffy's brother, ACR, RN-Subby, Badger, etc etc will be put to full use quelling the rest of us. Don't think for one moment that this, or any other British government would use martial law to squash any uprising

Civil Contingencies Act 2004.  Blair made sure Neue Arbiet had it's 'Enabling Act' on the books.


"... Are we opening up our system to the equivalent of what happened in Germany in 1933, when it became possible for an extreme party legitimately to hijack a democracy and turn it into something totalitarian?…"

Lord Lucas likening the slightly-amended Bill to Hitler's 'Enabling Act'.


The act also allows the Prime Minister to suspend Parliament and repeal or suspend any Act or Civil Right by oral dictact once he has invoked the act without consulting or involving Parliament in any way… and he can always use his power to amend the Civil Contingencies Act to to put Britain under a permanent State of Emergency.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose.

If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't…

Quoted: My condolences to you all. This explains the article I saw today: Man threatened with arrest at Heathrow for wearing Transformers T-shirt Evening Standard, UK An airline passenger claimed that a security guard threatened to arrest him because he was wearing a T-shirt showing a cartoon robot with a gun. Brad Jayakody, 30, from London, said he was stopped from passing through security at Heathrow's Terminal 5 after his Transformers T-shirt was deemed 'offensive.' i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/02/article-1023560-0174F68100000578-917_468x634.jpg The IT consultant was set to fly off on a business trip to Dusseldorf in Germany when he was pulled to one side. Brad Jayakody wearing the Transformers T-shift which caused offence at Heathrow Mr Jayakody said the first guard started joking with him about the Transformers character depicted on his French Connection T-shirt. '"Then he explains that since Megatron (sic) (it's actually Optimus Prime) is holding a gun, I'm not allowed to fly,' he said. 'It's a 40ft tall cartoon robot with a gun as an arm. There is no way this shirt is offensive in any way, and what I'm going to use the shirt to pretend I have a gun? He was cooperative with the supervisor and took off the the 'offensive' T-shirt, replacing it with another shirt in his carry on luggage. A spokesman for Heathrow operator BAA said: 'If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it. 'We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category. 'If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset.' He said there was no record of the incident and the passenger 'certainly didn't make a formal complaint at the time.'

Welcom to Britain......where the nutters are driving the bus

Quoted: Quoted: And given the opportunity excuse, you, Taffy's brother, ACR, RN-Subby, Badger, etc etc will be put to full use quelling the rest of us. Don't think for one moment that this, or any other British government wouldn't use martial law to squash any uprising That's pretty crass Mark, 'given the opportunity/excuse' implies a desire. You truly believe the police and military would actually want to get heavy with the populace, regardless of what that populace were trying to achieve? At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. I never said that. Re-read the bit in red. I said you would be put to full use (by the state etc) to squash us. I never said the rozzers or the Army would do so willingly, but when ordered to do so, would. And some would do so with glee. Happened in N.Ireland only 40 short years ago and ot happened in London in the early 20th century, which wasn't really that long ago either. What makes you think things have changed that much?? We certainly aren't more civilised

I think it would depend totally on the issue at stake. I'm talking about something that individuals would find abhorrent regardless of any 'state imposed legality' or supposed obligation through employment..

As to some doing so willingly, of course they would. In any organisation there are a number of utter arseholes, on both sides of an argument. It's an unfortunate human trait and to suggest otherwise is very blinkered..

I don't think things have changed that much either but I also think that if the government expects that all the police military and security services will follow orders blindly, they are wrong. The trick for the government would be to get enough to go along with it..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't…

Wrong again, what's to stop me?

Quoted: I think it would depend totally on the issue at stake. I'm talking about something that individuals would find abhorrent regardless of any 'state imposed legality' or supposed obligation through employment.. As to some doing so willingly, of course they would. In any organisation there are a number of utter arseholes, on both sides of an argument. It's an unfortunate human trait and to suggest otherwise is very blinkered.. I don't think things have changed that much either but I also think that if the government expects that all the police military and security services will follow orders blindly, they are wrong. The trick for the government would be to get enough to go along with it..

Sadly, there are always enough people - look at occupied France or even the Channel islands to see who co-operated with the beastly Germans when they came to town. The reality is that ther are still plenty of people who will follow orders even if they think they are a bit dodgy - during Gulf War 2, only one guy refused to serve - an RAF officer who was sucessfully court-martialed. Lots of people were uneasy, but the top cover of everyone from the PM down was enugh to re-assure them.

It's much easier to follow orders to restrict rights e.g. the Fairford protesters and I'm sure in all the hundreds who were busy blocking Motorway junctions and stopping people going to the lav at service stations (a very suspicious activity!) there were one or two coppers who were a bit concerned that this might not be strictly legal, but none of them wanted to step out of line and be the first. It's the herd mentality and it affects people in all walks of life.

The government have long ago learned the trick of getting people to do things as a group that they wouldn't do on their own - it's simple - give people a uniform, lots of training and build some team spirit. Then poeple do it for each other, not the government. I'm sure there are lots of people here who would agree that most soldiers & coppers act in extreme situations as a result of the training and the need to support the other guys in your team (multiple/callsign/troop/platoon/carrier or whatever it's called), not because they have carefully reviewed all of the circumstances, the politicial intent and the detailed legal situation (inclduing UN resolutions and current thinking on international law).

However, what they video shows is not that the curent authorities are planning on setting up concentration camps or carrying out extra-judicial executions on the street -instead it's the slow but certain diminution of everyday liberties that is turning us from a society where most people instinctively support the police to one where increasing numbers of people regard them with distrust. As ever, it's taken a long time and it's down to many things - but sitting in cars instead of walking the beat, speed camers, prosecution of people for minor offences to meet targets, the attitude of senior coppers to the average middle class person (seen as potential for revenue and some easy clear-up figures) that is slowly turning people off. Also, horror stories of householders being arrested when they've been burgled and of people who catch vandals getting cautioned whilst the culprits walk away don't exactly help the general situation.

I'd always do my best to help the police, but when you hear of old people being locked up for hours over a littering offence or shopkeepers threatened with arrest for warning people that a traffic warden was coming -  I fear that commmon sense has gone out of the window and coppers are slowly becoming one of them instead of one of us.

PS They all however, do a brilliant job in difficult circumstances (especially those in Glos) and its just a few rotton apples who spolil things for the rest.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't… Wrong again, what's to stop me?

You need to look up the scope of Emergency Powers legislation in this country. Under a State of Emergency all your 'rights' go straight out the window and as a 1st level responder, you, aka the Police would come under direct Government control. Refuse to obey orders? Good luck with that as you stand trial for refusing a lawful order.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't… Wrong again, what's to stop me? You need to look up the scope of Emergency Powers legislation in this country. Under a State of Emergency all your 'rights' go straight out the window and as a 1st level responder, you, aka the Police would come under direct Government control. Refuse to obey orders? Good luck with that as you stand trial for refusing a lawful order.

It'll not come to that.

The way that all this heavy-handed regulatory control is impemented is by the government driving for consistency and uniformity of response.

The government and the tossers that set the "standards" that those of us in regulatory roles should achieve, are incapable of recognising that officers enforcing those laws are better placed to make a balanced judgement decision based on the facts in front of them. The way a target is measured by government is based on a quantitative assessment of forms competed, boxes ticked, people arrested and massaged statistics, rather than a qualitative assessment of what has actually been achieved in making a community safer, or a social environment better for those living within it etc.

As officers who enforce the laws made by the government we are likely to be held up for judical review or prosecuted if we fail to uphold the laws (no matter how stupid or oppressive), or provide the statistics that are so readily banded about by McBroone and Co.

I would therefore argue that the first victims to be compromised by a government who brings in a poor legislative framework are the poor sods who have to enforce it.

You shouldn't blame the police. The sight of police officers or other authorities being forced to enforce overbearing and unpopular laws is s symptom of bad policies and decision making by a government and it's for everyone to stand against it.

You are having a pop at the wrong people.

Quoted: "...You shouldn't blame the police. ....." "...You are having a pop at the wrong people..."

Hear hear. Lions led by donkeys is one phrase that comes to mind. Bad apples excluded, the issues that most of us on this board may have with the police stem from the tosspots running the show, not the guys and girls on the ground.

Bad apples can be found anywhere, even the House of Commons is reputed to harbour the odd one.

Quoted: Quoted: "...You shouldn't blame the police. ....." "...You are having a pop at the wrong people..." Hear hear. Lions led by donkeys is one phrase that comes to mind. Bad apples excluded, the issues that most of us on this board may have with the police stem from the tosspots running the show, not the guys and girls on the ground. Bad apples can be found anywhere, even the House of Commons is reputed to harbour the odd one.

ACPO is nothing but an unelected political organization that has been more than happy to preside over the politicization, disengagement from the public and paramilitarizing of HM Constabulary for many years.


For a Police State to work, you need to make the 'people' distrust and fear the Police and break the basis of trust between the Constabulary and the general public. When the Police are 'The Public' they will not act against the public. You need to set them apart. To quote Blade Runner… "If you're not Cops you're little people'. The move from Police Officers looking like Dixon of Dock Green to dressing like ersatz SAS Commandos is all part of this policy of disengagement.

Well sitting here in the cheap seats, it looks suspiciously to me that this decade long campaign of petty tyranny and targeted Policing by Neue Arbiet is working VERY effectively to achieve that situation. Poll after poll of the 'middle class' of Britain, (who were the Police's natural constituency), now show that there had been a huge breakdown in trust between them and the Police.

Sorry Guys I cant play, full house you see!!

Well put Nick 624 I for one would proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with you to maintain the law of the land and not let annecy rule

I'll be somewhere on an island keeping my head down waiting for the all clear

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't… Wrong again, what's to stop me? You need to look up the scope of Emergency Powers legislation in this country. Under a State of Emergency all your 'rights' go straight out the window and as a 1st level responder, you, aka the Police would come under direct Government control. Refuse to obey orders? Good luck with that as you stand trial for refusing a lawful order.

Nope. No trial. I could be disciplined and kicked out certainly, but if the 'order' were that abhorrent to me, I would have already walked by then anyway...we are talking extreme stuff here....also any order which itself could leave an officer open to prosecution is not lawful......lots of variables in that one.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "...You shouldn't blame the police. ....." "...You are having a pop at the wrong people..." Hear hear. Lions led by donkeys is one phrase that comes to mind. Bad apples excluded, the issues that most of us on this board may have with the police stem from the tosspots running the show, not the guys and girls on the ground. Bad apples can be found anywhere, even the House of Commons is reputed to harbour the odd one. ACPO is nothing but an unelected political organization that has been more than happy to preside over the politicization, disengagement from the public and paramilitarizing of HM Constabulary for many years.- I'll answer this one when I retire For a Police State to work, you need to make the 'people' distrust and fear the Police and break the basis of trust between the Constabulary and the general public. When the Police are 'The Public' they will not act against the public. You need to set them apart. To quote Blade Runner… "If you're not Cops you're little people'. The move from Police Officers looking like Dixon of Dock Green to dressing like ersatz SAS Commandos is all part of this policy of disengagement.- This is an interesting one. On the one hand many people believe that the police have gone all 'touchy feely' and politically correct, too far in fact, and yet you accuse them of 'militarisation'. Well that is merely a function of having practical equipment for the job, and yes the best stuff tends to be that designed for military use. Another interesting closing of the gap between police & miltary, but only visually in appearance, not approach. In specialist areas such as firearms of course we will have some common ground with the military. How could it be otherwise. Pink uniforms? Make your mind up, are we too PC (no pun intended) or too 'commando'. To quote Hot Fuzz '...police work isn't about action,..or shit' (I might have some dispute with the latter) Well sitting here in the cheap seats, it looks suspiciously to me that this decade long campaign of petty tyranny and targeted Policing by Neue Arbiet is working VERY effectively to achieve that situation. Poll after poll of the 'middle class' of Britain, (who were the Police's natural constituency), now show that there had been a huge breakdown in trust between them and the Police.-Well you can blame your mates from Orgreave for that, they undoubtedley voted for Tony and his mates almost to a man, whereas very few police officers did.......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't… Wrong again, what's to stop me? You need to look up the scope of Emergency Powers legislation in this country. Under a State of Emergency all your 'rights' go straight out the window and as a 1st level responder, you, aka the Police would come under direct Government control. Refuse to obey orders? Good luck with that as you stand trial for refusing a lawful order. Nope. No trial. I could be disciplined and kicked out certainly, but if the 'order' were that abhorrent to me, I would have already walked by then anyway...we are talking extreme stuff here....also any order which itself could leave an officer open to prosecution is not lawful......lots of variables in that one.

Under the Civil Contingencies Act, any order by the PM becomes 'lawful' because he says so, and whether to obey it or not becomes non negotiable and you would be effectively 'drafted. You wouldn't be kicked out, more likely charged with sedition and/or refusing to carry out a lawful order given to you by the PM's Office during a State of National Emergency as per Section 3 (i)(II) below.

Civil Contingencies Act 2004 is a licence for a deeply unpopular Government to do anything it so chose to stay in power in the face of public protest or revolt  and is an 'enabling act' for a Police State. For a period of 30 days, the PM has effectively unlimited powers and can amend or pass any law he so choses, and should he decide to amend a law to permanently suspend civil rights and put Britain under a permanent State of Emergency, there is nothing in the legislation to prevent him from doing so.


Some of the things a Government Minster can do by executive fiat under the Act…

(3)Emergency regulations may make provision of any kind that could be made by Act of Parliament or by the exercise of the Royal Prerogative; in particular, regulations may—
(a)confer a function on a Minister of the Crown, on the Scottish Ministers, on the National Assembly for Wales, on a Northern Ireland department, on a coordinator appointed under section 24 or on any other specified person (and a function conferred may, in particular, be—
(i)a power, or duty, to exercise a discretion;
(ii)a power to give directions or orders, whether written or oral);
(b)provide for or enable the requisition or confiscation of property (with or without compensation);
(c)provide for or enable the destruction of property, animal life or plant life (with or without compensation);
(d)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, movement to or from a specified place;
(e)require, or enable the requirement of, movement to or from a specified place;
(f)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, assemblies of specified kinds, at specified places or at specified times;
(g)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, travel at specified times;
(h)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, other specified activities;
(i)create an offence of—
(i)failing to comply with a provision of the regulations;
(ii)failing to comply with a direction or order given or made under the regulations;
(iii)obstructing a person in the performance of a function under or by virtue of the regulations;
(j)disapply or modify an enactment or a provision made under or by virtue of an enactment;
(k)require a person or body to act in performance of a function (whether the function is conferred by the regulations or otherwise and whether or not the regulations also make provision for remuneration or compensation);
(l)enable the Defence Council to authorise the deployment of Her Majesty’s armed forces;
(m)make provision (which may include conferring powers in relation to property) for facilitating any deployment of Her Majesty’s armed forces;
(n)confer jurisdiction on a court or tribunal (which may include a tribunal established by the regulations);
(o)make provision which has effect in relation to, or to anything done in—
(i)an area of the territorial sea,
(ii)an area within British fishery limits, or
(iii)an area of the continental shelf;
(p)make provision which applies generally or only in specified circumstances or for a specified purpose;
(q)make different provision for different circumstances or purposes.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In specialist areas such as firearms of course we will have some common ground with the military. How could it be otherwise. Pink uniforms?

ALL PSNI Offiers are armed yet don't feel the need to dress like refugee's from Sterling Lines.



PSNI Officer doing Community Policing…





Meanwhile 'over here'…

Two unarmed Community Policing Officers in their best tacticool gear.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At the end of the day I make my own judgement, and can walk away any time I choose. If the Government declares a State of Emergency you can't… Wrong again, what's to stop me? You need to look up the scope of Emergency Powers legislation in this country. Under a State of Emergency all your 'rights' go straight out the window and as a 1st level responder, you, aka the Police would come under direct Government control. Refuse to obey orders? Good luck with that as you stand trial for refusing a lawful order. Nope. No trial. I could be disciplined and kicked out certainly, but if the 'order' were that abhorrent to me, I would have already walked by then anyway...we are talking extreme stuff here....also any order which itself could leave an officer open to prosecution is not lawful......lots of variables in that one. Under the Civil Contingencies Act, any order by the PM becomes 'lawful' because he says so, and whether to obey it or not becomes non negotiable and you would be effectively 'drafted. You wouldn't be kicked out, more likely charged with sedition and/or refusing to carry out a lawful order given to you by the PM's Office during a State of National Emergency as per Section 3 (i)(II) below. Civil Contingencies Act 2004 is a licence for a deeply unpopular Government to do anything it so chose to stay in power in the face of public protest or revolt  and is an 'enabling act' for a Police State. For a period of 30 days, the PM has effectively unlimited powers and can amend or pass any law he so choses, and should he decide to amend a law to permanently suspend civil rights and put Britain under a permanent State of Emergency, there is nothing in the legislation to prevent him from doing so. Some of the things a Government Minster can do by executive fiat under the Act… (3)Emergency regulations may make provision of any kind that could be made by Act of Parliament or by the exercise of the Royal Prerogative; in particular, regulations may— (a)confer a function on a Minister of the Crown, on the Scottish Ministers, on the National Assembly for Wales, on a Northern Ireland department, on a coordinator appointed under section 24 or on any other specified person (and a function conferred may, in particular, be— (i)a power, or duty, to exercise a discretion; (ii)a power to give directions or orders, whether written or oral); (b)provide for or enable the requisition or confiscation of property (with or without compensation); (c)provide for or enable the destruction of property, animal life or plant life (with or without compensation); (d)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, movement to or from a specified place; (e)require, or enable the requirement of, movement to or from a specified place; (f)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, assemblies of specified kinds, at specified places or at specified times; (g)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, travel at specified times; (h)prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, other specified activities; (i)create an offence of— (i)failing to comply with a provision of the regulations; (ii)failing to comply with a direction or order given or made under the regulations; (iii)obstructing a person in the performance of a function under or by virtue of the regulations; (j)disapply or modify an enactment or a provision made under or by virtue of an enactment; (k)require a person or body to act in performance of a function (whether the function is conferred by the regulations or otherwise and whether or not the regulations also make provision for remuneration or compensation); (l)enable the Defence Council to authorise the deployment of Her Majesty’s armed forces; (m)make provision (which may include conferring powers in relation to property) for facilitating any deployment of Her Majesty’s armed forces; (n)confer jurisdiction on a court or tribunal (which may include a tribunal established by the regulations); (o)make provision which has effect in relation to, or to anything done in— (i)an area of the territorial sea, (ii)an area within British fishery limits, or (iii)an area of the continental shelf; (p)make provision which applies generally or only in specified circumstances or for a specified purpose; (q)make different provision for different circumstances or purposes.

These might only lead to consequences, they still can't make me do something I personally find abhorrent. That decision is mine and mine alone, why is that so hard to understand....?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In specialist areas such as firearms of course we will have some common ground with the military. How could it be otherwise. Pink uniforms? ALL PSNI Offiers are armed yet don't feel the need to dress like refugee's from Sterling Lines. PSNI Officer doing Community Policing… img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0704/brbelfast_0416.jpg Meanwhile 'over here'… Two unarmed Community Policing Officers in their best tacticool gear. 71.18.129.25/images/Ron%20and%20Eira%20-%20iii.JPG

..perhaps the handgun on his belt makes him feel that he doesn't need the stab vest. Can't say I agree, but I bet he has access to one.....

..and you still haven't revealed what part you played helping the State oppress the masses...

WTF.

I'm amazed at some of the reaction's, and where this is now headed.

I see that things have escalated to a point of no return, which excludes me from ever considering returning.

Tony