TheOtherDave- I agree with you 100%.

Well, the bills are already starting to be shopped for sponsors in Lansing. I'm pretty sure they'll find some and I'm also pretty sure we can get it squelched, but it annoys the hell out of me that we have to waste our time dealing with this crap for no obvious reason that I can see.

Mission accomplished, I guess.

 

The OC "movement": If it ain't broke... keep fixing it 'til it is.

Here’s something a lot of people really don’t want to address. They nibble around it because they realize that it is the topic, but they choose to instead place blame on the easy target.

How many of you would be criticizing the person open carrying a gun into a restaurant if this had happened to him?

How about if it was a person carrying a concealed handgun under a license? Would you still criticize him if this were to happen to him?

What if it was a group of people who were members of a gun club who got together at a local restaurant, and someone who just didn’t like guns decided to call the police not to just check to see if it’s legal, but to actually complain?

Would you still be blaming the gun owner? If so, at what point would you stop blaming the gun owner for what happened?

morans?

This post is the very definition of "All Over The Road."  See also "What The Fuck?"









 

Can you elaborate?

Bills to ban open carry altogether?

Isn't this more a question of if you have a right to be in an establishment when the management doesn't want you there?

The question of if the (management) asked or had the five-oh come and ask is a non-issue.  Someone in control of a private business doesn't want you there anymore you leave, case closed.

On a personal level, it appears someone was looking to get their panties in a wad and was successful in looking like a moron to 90% of the public.  On another note, I agree 100% with the poster who say this will only end with legislation that is not good for anyone.

Joe

You're a bit misinformed.

The manager called the non-emergency number to ask if LGOC was legal. The dispatcher said they would send officers, the manager told them DO NOT SEND OFFICERS.

After the cops had flooded the parking lot and blocked all the entrances the manager thought it best that the OCer's leave. Then the cops wouldn't let them leave.

The devils in the details.

The cops were NOT WELCOME. They were told NOT TO COME, they came anyway with camera's and voice recorders.

The OCer's had prior permission to be there.

The cops were there to provoke a response and were technically trespassing.

The cops also illegally accessed the LEIN (a felony) and also put out an inappropriate BOLO.

The cops broke so many laws it's hard to count them all.

The OCer's broke NO LAWS.

This is why the Lansing Internal Affairs Division has initiated an investigation into the actions of the responding officers that day.

Did you happen to have a clue about any of that?

DougWG, arfcom is not the place to have any sort of rational gun rights discussion. This is a flamethrower sight whenever any topic is discussed where an "opinion" gets presented. A lot of closet Clintonistas here.

Look, we don't have to play "what-if" here. It happened and that's what we're focusing on.

See also "Negative, Ghostrider, the crapper is full"

Are these bills that are being shopped for sponsors in Lansing for the purpose of curtailing abusive law enforcement activities like those exhibited by the Lansing Police Department, the Warren Police Department, the Detroit Police Department, The Grand Haven Police Department, the Canton Police Department, the Oakland Count Sheriffs Department, or any of the other civil rights violating police departments in Michigan that have demonstrated a complete disregard for the civil rights of individuals engaged in lawful activities?

Who are the shoppers of these bills? How about some names so that we can counter their efforts to violate our civil liberties under the guise of unconstitutional legislation.

Come out from behind the curtain and explain to us why it annoys the hell out of you that we waste our time dealing with the abuses that we have encountered while engaging in lawful activities. Come right out and tell just exactly which lawful act ivies you object to. What restrictions are you in favor of imposing on the law abiding citizens of the state of Michigan? Please make it clear to all here just how far to the left you lean.

what this does it ties her and SAFR up dealing with cleaning up the mess it cause since they are the only group really gets anything in lansing and is  respected .there

caused by the OC crowd and one of there own not to smart act to gain attn its no secrect your not gaining any points in lansing with your antics and are looked down on, though legal

while i support oc and the right to do so in your face approach has worked well and is now causing a backlash  so why not gather up your group head to Lansing and make your point know or work with safr  on this to get it cleaned up

if you are attacking barb on this issue your way off she and her group have done more for gun rights in this state than you ever have or will

I have kept mute on this but an outright attack on the person who is dealing with your fuck up is getting he calls and emails about this not you

Rarely am I so bold so as to assume to speak for others but I will make an exception  in this case.    Please...no more help.  





 

This isn't my fuck up and I didn't attack Barb.

The issue is just as much about the over reactive response by the Lansing Police Department as it is the event itself. Why isn't that the subject of discussion as much as the AR is?

The AR was carried in a lawful manner. The Lansing Police Department acted unlawfully.

I asked that the shoppers of bill sponsors be identified for the purpose of circumventing their efforts.

If there is complete support for all lawful activities, then there is no left leaning. Subsequent discussion can be had about appropriateness of an activity. But to discount something based upon simple political opposition is not well founded. Being politically correct isn't necessarily the best approach to achieve political activism.

Is it too much to ask for you guys to stop being activists for a right we already have?

And just what help do you in your infintisimal presumutuos little mind assume that I have given?

It's easy for a Keyboard Rambo like you to sit there pounding on the keys ranting like a little pre-menstrual school girl when you lack the basic knowledge to be able to discern the difference between bad apple butter and good diarrhea.

You are a pesky little tick. You should jump back up on the dog's ass you fell off.

ESAD you fucking piss-ant.

Wow

It is only a right if you can exercise it.

As an example, open carry is lawful in Nevada. The Las Vegas Metro police would litterally assault anyone doin it though. A few people experienced severe battery for doing so. Through those individual's efforts to challenge the LVMPD unlawful activities, lawful open carry is no longer met with the same unlawful violence that had been exhibited before.

There have been numerous incidents by various police departments in Michigan where individuals have been unlawfully engage by rogue officers. This is the behavior that needs to be addressed. The AR at the ponderosa is the red herring that opponents are throwing out for the sharks to feed on. It is being used as a distraction.

The police at that incident held the customers of the ponderosa hostage. No one inside that restaurant was allowed to leave. Not just the gun-toters, but everyone.

If there was a single inkling that anything un;awful was being done by any of the "morons", as they have been refereed to, the Lansing Police would've had every single one of them face down on the ground and disarmed. That didn't happen. So don't you think that there was an agenda being played out by the LPD? And it seems to be working!!!

If you were one of the people there that day, your attitude here on ARFCOM explains alot. You will never understand or even listen to other people’s opinions because you feel you are right and everyone else is wrong on this issue. If some of the most influential people in MI gun politics think you messed up and don’t support what you did, you need to take a harder look at your actions and think about the consequences before hand.

I have a hard time listening to people who when confronted resort to the only they can do... running their mouth and name calling. I'm sure the Lansing Police felt the same way if that’s what they had to deal with that day.

I'd love to hear all of the phone calls and dispatch tapes on that run. Can some one in the Lansing area FOIA the tapes?

Dicussion has dropped to juvenile name calling. Everyone take your balls and go home.