Hey guys I just wanted to make you aware of a small movement that's gaining some momentum in our lovely state.  There's a group of guys over at opencarry.com that are beginning to hold meetings in public while open carrying.  I just met with them at a McDonald's on Miller Rd. in Flint and was very surprised that hardly anyone even raised an eyebrow.  The information provided was informative,  accurate,  and very well put together.  "Open Carry" is alive and well in this state contrary to popular belief.

There is an AG opinion that any portion of your travel in a car is not open carry, and means a CCW crime has occured.

Quoted: There is an AG opinion that any portion of your travel in a car is not open carry, and means a CCW crime has occured.

...if the person does not have a valid CPL.

Quoted: There is an AG opinion that any portion of your travel in a car is not open carry, and means a CCW crime has occured.

You are correct and that was one of the issues addressed today.  However open carry in/on a motor vehicle is legal with a CPL.  

BTW if you read Section 234d.(1) you will also find it legal to open carry with a CPL in depository institutions, churchs, courts, theatres, sports arenas, day care centers, hospitals, and establishments licensed to serve liquor.  

Can I dispel any other mythes?

Wish I had found out about this sooner, I would have come out.

Quoted: Wish I had found out about this sooner, I would have come out.

Sorry... I was hesitant to post about this because I only found out about it 3 days ago,  and I wasn't sure if it was bulls$@t.  But I can tell you that a small group of us sat in McDonald's several with OC weapons deliberately facing the people walking in,  and no blood was shed,  my dogs are alive and well, the SWAT Team was not called, and we didn't see so much as a police car drive by.  I did not OC today,  however I will be in attendace at the next meeting they have and I most certainly will.  The gentlemen that started this little adventure was extremely fluent in the Michigan Compiled Laws and made it a point to not only dispel any mythes but also back up his information with hard copy.

harleyrkc,

Good to know!hanks
I assume "rkc" is for Road King Classic?

tag

Well, you were in Flint, after all....most of those folks are used to seeing handguns in their day to day goings on and are of the "I didn't see nothing" mindset.  


Hold the next meeting in West Bloomfield and let me know how that goes for you.  

Quoted: Well, you were in Flint, after all....most of those folks are used to seeing handguns in their day to day goings on and are of the "I didn't see nothing" mindset.   Hold the next meeting in West Bloomfield and let me know how that goes for you.

I understand your skepticism,  I was too.  Thats why I didn't OC at that meeting.  But its a cause I believe in and I will be in attendance at further meeting,  and I will OC in the future.  Its not an issue of OC'ing everyday.  Its about public perception and exercising your rights before someone takes them away.

I was there!  

Good meeting, too bad I had to leave early though.

Looking forward to the next one.

Sounds fun.  I'll try to be at the next one!

The next meeting is in the planning stages.  Its looks like it may be Lansing.

OpenCarry.Org

Quoted: Well, you were in Flint, after all....most of those folks are used to seeing handguns in their day to day goings on and are of the "I didn't see nothing" mindset.   Hold the next meeting in West Bloomfield and let me know how that goes for you.

Any concerns over a disturbing the peace charge if some cop gets a bug up his ass and wants to make a point?  I can see WB pulling something just like that and I'm not interested in the possibility of losing any of my minimal existing rights over something like that.

Are there typically any attorneys in this OC group and are they willing to provide free legal services if something goes bad?

Quoted: Quoted: Well, you were in Flint, after all....most of those folks are used to seeing handguns in their day to day goings on and are of the "I didn't see nothing" mindset.   Hold the next meeting in West Bloomfield and let me know how that goes for you.   Any concerns over a disturbing the peace charge if some cop gets a bug up his ass and wants to make a point?  I can see WB pulling something just like that and I'm not interested in the possibility of losing any of my minimal existing rights over something like that. Are there typically any attorneys in this OC group and are they willing to provide free legal services if something goes bad?

Rather then pretend I can do justice to the information provided at the meeting,  may I suggest attending the meeting while CC'ing or not carrying at all.  I will see if I can obtain the digital copy of the presented information and post it here.  And to answer your original question about disturbing the peace,  no they cannot charge you with DTP.

Quoted: Rather then pretend I can do justice to the information provided at the meeting,  may I suggest attending the meeting while CC'ing or not carrying at all.

If you ever have one closer to the Metro Detroit burbs where I am at, I'd love to attend, but I don't foresee myself driving to Flint or Lansing for one right now.

Quoted: ...snip... And to answer your original question about disturbing the peace,  no they cannot charge you with DTP.

You may beat the rap, but you will not beat the ride.  

It will not be painless. It will not be inexpensive.

This "movement" has the potential to do more harm than good.  

Quoted: Quoted: ...snip... And to answer your original question about disturbing the peace,  no they cannot charge you with DTP. You may beat the rap, but you will not beat the ride.   It will not be painless. It will not be inexpensive. This "movement" has the potential to do more harm than good.

And a 30 round mag has more "potential" to kill, does that make it bad?

Quoted: And to answer your original question about disturbing the peace,  no they cannot charge you with DTP.

That is just false.  LE can throw any charge at you they want.  The question is will they, and will it stick?  Now, I believe Mr. Jeffs has claimed he has had no problems OC'ing in Lansing.

*YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN MICHIGAN*

Any law abiding citizen of the State of Michigan who can legally posses a firearm may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law without a CPL. Private property rules override state law in regards to firearm possession.

MSP Legal Update Newsletter: April 2007 Did You Know: It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…...

Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. b) A peace officer. c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

Those that do not have a CPL when transporting their firearms must do so as prescribe by law.

Michigan State Police Web Site.  Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle? Answer: A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.  The law defines ‘lawful purpose’ as: 1 While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2 While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3 While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4 While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5 While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6 While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7 While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law.

In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part:  A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

MRCGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.  Therefore, officers should check with their prosecutors before enforcing an ordinance that imposes a general ban on openly carrying a pistol.

Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm.

Though this section does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct.  The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002:  A reserve police officer, by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public. ….Research discloses that while the term "brandishing" appears in reported Michigan cases,  none of the cases define the term.  In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously.  A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner."   Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.

A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need only give that officer their name and address.  No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm.  

We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. ]Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained.  If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained?  If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor.  Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest.  After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employee.

An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a persons with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d.  For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc.

Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002…section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1. That statute prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act,…(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:…c) A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon. d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.  By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.  

Your analysis is correct.  Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders.  The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol.  Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.

Sincerely,
Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police
Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd.
East Lansing, MI 48823
(517) 336-6441

Dear Mr. M

My office received your inquiry regarding the legality of a licensed CPL holder to open carry a firearm in "Pistol Free Zones." On Friday we received a copy of your correspondence, as Senator Carl Levin's Office referred your letter to my office because your concerns mainly pertain to state issues. As such, I am happy to assist you in this matter.

My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are licensed a CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter. Apparently, this is a loophole that has been recently identified and no legislation has been proposed to amend it.

I hope this information serves helpful to you, and please do not hesitate to contact my office regarding any other state issue of your concern.

Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"

*The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in Michigan.  You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above.  If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

Just remember, if you open carry without a CPL, don't get in your car.  It is now concealed.  Without a CPL, you have to unloaded it and store it cased in your trunk. Away from any loaded magazines as well.

So my question:  If you have a IWB holster that partial conceals the pistol but still presents the grip of the gun with nothing covering the grip is that still open carry?  

You guys are walking a fine line.  I think you guys doing the OC thing are doing alot more harm than good.  From what I understand, the OC issue is sorta a loop-hole in the law whereas it is not actually specified.  Sooner or later, someone will goto jail, gun confiscated, etc. over this stunt...  You may win in the end, but you may also succeed in new unfavorable firearms laws for Michigan.  Public opinion carries alot of weight and I don't think the majority of the public cares to see you OC where and when you please....  I have seen this on a few other forums as well.  I'll keep watch on it.  When you guys f@%! it up for all of us, I'll be sure to thank you....

ETA:  Every school shooting etc. the gun-ban drum beats.  I think if this takes off like you all want it to, the gun-ban drum will beat hard in Michigan.  And not only will they go after OC issue, what would stop them from tacking on a bunch of other things too while they are on the subject.?.?.?.

ETA#2:  I responded to this topic giving my opinion of "what would happen" based on previous experience.  Seems my response peeved off all the OC guys....
www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24423

What's the purpose of open carrying anyways?  

I want to clarify my post.  I applaud those who, with intelligent planning and forethought, strive to educate others about freedom and personal responsibility.  Attention whores do not impress me, though.  I am not worried about public OC meetings harming the RKBA cause if they are well planned and attended by good representatives for responsible gun ownership.  If these OC meetings in any way lead to additional, ridiculous laws, the problem will not be the meetings but rather the overabundance of people who do not desire or respect freedom.

Does anyone know the minimum legal age to recieve a CPL and be able to open carry?

Well I see that if nothing else this thread has drummed up some more public awareness,  which is what its all about.  I am sorry some of you disagree with the idea of OC.  But I must ask those of you who are in decent,  why do you choose only to exercise your right "to keep" but not "bear arms"?  The 2nd amendment addresses both of these issues and today we are in the fight of our lives.  Many of you preach to the heavens that this is a right your willing to die for,  but when it comes to practicing what you preach your not willing to stand up for your rights.  

BTW.... I once believed just as many of you do that OC is illegal,  you'll be arrested for any number of reasons,  its a public nuiscance, etc. etc. etc.  But I was interested enough to listen to a very educated speaker who set me straight!  

I'm not preaching for or against it, I just was wondering your reasons behind OC.  If it's no more than "because I can", fine by me.  I am just curious is all.

When did CCW at the bank become illegal?

Quoted: When did CCW at the bank become illegal?

Actually I it doesn't say banks its says "(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financail institution."  I took that to mean bank but may have been wrong.

So can I legally CCW at a bank? Banks were not off limits when I got mine, nor at the class last year when I went with 2 guys I work with.

Quoted: So can I legally CCW at a bank? Banks were not off limits when I got mine, nor at the class last year when I went with 2 guys I work with.

As I understand the law its perfectly legal to carry in a bank.  But if you read sec. 234d (1) thats where the "depository financial institution" wording came from.  They must be speaking of it as a depository and not necessarily a public banking institution.  I was trying to avoid typing out the entire sentence and didn't mean to cause you any alarm as to carrying in a bank.

Editted for double tap

Quoted: Someone I know very well was a local police officer. This person is pro gun and has more guns in his safe than I do. But when I asked him about OC, he said he would find something to make an arrest on. As he put it, you just cant have people walking around like that creating a panic. He figured he would find something to get them off the streeet. If it didn't stick in court, at least they were off the street for a while. Seemed pretty crappy to me. At least he isnt a cop here anymore.

That exact attitude and scenario by officers is a large part of what we spoke about at the meeting.  The fact of the matter is his dept.  will only arrest you one time on an unrelated charge.  It WILL be dismissed and after that you'll not only have a case for wrongful arrest but if they try it twice,  a case for harassment!  If nothing else comes of it you will have made their entire dept. aware that they cannot make up the laws as they go.  They will also try to tell that they have local ordinances on the books that don't allow OC.  However they omit the that fact that MI has a preemption law that makes them unenforceable.  MCL 123.1102  This preemption BTW is the same law that stopped local municipalities from banning your CPL at the local level.  So for those of you who are against this,  keep in mind the laws that are being exercised are the same laws that made your CPL worth the paper there printed on!  

Hold the next meeting in West Bloomfield.  

Then you'll find out just what a motivted officer / prosecutor team can do with a little time and a lot of budget.  

Be sure to post the date, time, and location.  I want to watch.  


One (just one) of the reasons I think this movement is distasteful...I've been to parts of the world where "open carry" of both handguns and rifles is not only the norm, but a necessity.  Trust me when I say that you don't want to turn your home turf into any of these places.  

Concealed carry strengthens the veneer that is civilized society, and gives pause to scoundrels as they consider the unseen dangers of their trade.

This is nothing like a 30 round magazine...that argument is simply illogical and juvenile.

I'm looking forward to the next meeting.  If West Bloomfield doesn't work, maybe we can try the Royal Oak Library.

Quoted: Quoted: Someone I know very well was a local police officer. This person is pro gun and has more guns in his safe than I do. But when I asked him about OC, he said he would find something to make an arrest on. As he put it, you just cant have people walking around like that creating a panic. He figured he would find something to get them off the streeet. If it didn't stick in court, at least they were off the street for a while. Seemed pretty crappy to me. At least he isnt a cop here anymore. That exact attitude and scenario by officers is a large part of what we spoke about at the meeting.  The fact of the matter is his dept.  will only arrest you one time on an unrelated charge.  It WILL be dismissed and after that you'll not only have a case for wrongful arrest but if they try it twice,  a case for harassment!  If nothing else comes of it you will have made their entire dept. aware that they cannot make up the laws as they go.  They will also try to tell that they have local ordinances on the books that don't allow OC.  However they omit the that fact that MI has a preemption law that makes them unenforceable.  MCL 123.1102  This preemption BTW is the same law that stopped local municipalities from banning your CPL at the local level.  So for those of you who are against this,  keep in mind the laws that are being exercised are the same laws that made your CPL worth the paper there printed on!

Put your money where your mouth is.  Go to a crowded mall or chain store in SE Michigan and get noticed, get the police called on you.  Do this in several jurisdictions.  You guys are slammin me on the MGO board because I am saying you just may get arrested.  I hope none of you do, but I am not so sure about it.....

Oh, and while we are on the subject, will one of you guys sling up with an underfolder AK on the next "outing"??  We all know that underfolder AK's are registered as pistols here in MI, so why not carry one?  It is a pistol, right?  Maybe we can get that issue resolve also, 2 birds with one stone...

ETA:  Like SevenMaryThree stated, let us all know when and where so we can watch and see for ourselves....

Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore.

Nice cut and run... scared?

How about you put YOUR ass on the line.

How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges.

I can throw up a challenge too. :)

I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org

Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org

No cut and run..  No reason for you to be an asshole either.  My point doesn't appeal to you, thats fine.  You still have no answer for what the public would think (this is a liberal state afterall).  Just don't cry on any of these forums if you happen to be illegally arrested on trumped up charges.  The public as a whole will not tolerate OC, no matter what laws you find.  Pulling your stunts to prove a point will only expidite matters (along with further gun restrictions)...  So have at it brother, where's the challenge if it's legal, right?

I figured I should post this here in case you missed in on migunowners.org

This is starting to get interesting. Although, I do see the point of the so-called educators, they really should pick their battles and stop making responsible gun owners look like cowboys. You can still educate people without showing off your pistol.

BTW, nice add on about the AK in the mall...good point

Ref dougwg's post.
If Carl Levin's Office is involved or aware of this situation, you can be sure the anti's are keeping an eye on this. If you push this too far or hard they will push back. In todays society and  with a CPL so easy to get, if this OC issued gets pushed they will write new legislation to make it illegal. I can understand you stance but I agree that this could cause more harm than good.

Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org

Scared?  No.  As I've mentioned previously in this same regard, discretion is the better part of valor.  That, and I've got all the drama and attention I need in my life.  By design, that amount is zero.

Put my ass on the line?  Unlike you and the rest of this group I know where the line actually is.  

Me arrest you?  No thanks...I'm a businessman, not a law officer.

Yes...you and the rest of this group have demonstrated a propensity to "throw up" challenges.  And doozies they are...

I like the idea of an AK underfolder open carried at a shooping center on Orchard Lake Road.  We wouldn't want to lose our right to do that...

That picture on page one doesn't help the cause, either.  This group is sorely lacking an understanding some basic pricipals about human nature and how that affects public perception of their mission.  



 

Quoted: Ref dougwg's post. If Carl Levin's Office is involved or aware of this situation, you can be sure the anti's are keeping an eye on this. If you push this too far or hard they will push back. In todays society and  with a CPL so easy to get, if this OC issued gets pushed they will write new legislation to make it illegal. I can understand you stance but I agree that this could cause more harm than good.

Ok, I understand now!

We shouldn't OC because if we do then they will make it illegal then we can't OC.

um....wait.....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org Scared?  No.  As I've mentioned previously in this same regard, discretion is the better part of valor.  That, and I've got all the drama and attention I need in my life.  By design, that amount is zero. Put my ass on the line?  Unlike you and the rest of this group I know where the line actually is.   Me arrest you?  No thanks...I'm a businessman, not a law officer. Yes...you and the rest of this group have demonstrated a propensity to "throw up" challenges.  And doozies they are... I like the idea of an AK underfolder open carried at a shooping center on Orchard Lake Road.  We wouldn't want to lose our right to do that... That picture on page one doesn't help the cause, either.  This group is sorely lacking an understanding some basic pricipals about human nature and how that affects public perception of their mission.

Um, I quoted jdixon22.

SevenMaryThree, I wasn't talking to you.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org No cut and run..  No reason for you to be an asshole either.  My point doesn't appeal to you, thats fine.  You still have no answer for what the public would think (this is a liberal state afterall).  Just don't cry on any of these forums if you happen to be illegally arrested on trumped up charges.  The public as a whole will not tolerate OC, no matter what laws you find.  Pulling your stunts to prove a point will only expidite matters (along with further gun restrictions)...  So have at it brother, where's the challenge if it's legal, right? I figured I should post this here in case you missed in on migunowners.org

You say you're not against OC yet you call it a "stunt" and say that you would make up false charges and arrest for OC'ing. You then go on to challenge people and threaten them with arrest.

After you do all this and more I turn it around and give it right back to you.
And you say I'm being an asshole?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org No cut and run..  No reason for you to be an asshole either.  My point doesn't appeal to you, thats fine.  You still have no answer for what the public would think (this is a liberal state afterall).  Just don't cry on any of these forums if you happen to be illegally arrested on trumped up charges.  The public as a whole will not tolerate OC, no matter what laws you find.  Pulling your stunts to prove a point will only expidite matters (along with further gun restrictions)...  So have at it brother, where's the challenge if it's legal, right? I figured I should post this here in case you missed in on migunowners.org You say you're not against OC yet you call it a "stunt" and say that you would make up false charges and arrest for OC'ing. You then go on to challenge people and threaten them with arrest. After you do all this and more I turn it around and give it right back to you. And you say I'm being an asshole?

I apologize, not reason for name calling. I call it a stunt because of what the public would view this as. I just don't think OC'ing is gonna do any gun owner any good. As far as arresting, I don't know what my jurisdiction would do. I am off for a week and won't be back. When I get an informed decision, I will post what they. OC'ing is not a new thing, you just don't hear about it practically ever.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am done with this, no sense on arguing anymore. Nice cut and run... scared? How about you put YOUR ass on the line. How about we open carry somewhere and YOU ARREST us on your trumped up charges. I can throw up a challenge too. :) I figured I should post this here incase you missed it on migunowners.org No cut and run..  No reason for you to be an asshole either.  My point doesn't appeal to you, thats fine.  You still have no answer for what the public would think (this is a liberal state afterall).  Just don't cry on any of these forums if you happen to be illegally arrested on trumped up charges.  The public as a whole will not tolerate OC, no matter what laws you find.  Pulling your stunts to prove a point will only expidite matters (along with further gun restrictions)...  So have at it brother, where's the challenge if it's legal, right? I figured I should post this here in case you missed in on migunowners.org You say you're not against OC yet you call it a "stunt" and say that you would make up false charges and arrest for OC'ing. You then go on to challenge people and threaten them with arrest. After you do all this and more I turn it around and give it right back to you. And you say I'm being an asshole? I apologize, not reason for name calling. I call it a stunt because of what the public would view this as. I just don't think OC'ing is gonna do any gun owner any good. As far as arresting, I don't know what my jurisdiction would do. I am off for a week and won't be back. When I get an informed decision, I will post what they. OC'ing is not a new thing, you just don't hear about it practically ever.

This is silly posting on both message boards as I'm sure you'll agree.
If anyone wants to continue reading and or contributing to this discussion you can do so here ~~~~> www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24423

motorcityman,

NOW THATS COOL!

Quoted: i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/onebigjoe/motorcyclestAK.jpg

See, this is taking it too far.

why?

Quoted: motorcityman, NOW THATS COOL!

Legal or not, I don't personally see anything cool about that pic.